From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sun May 1 21:26:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:26:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: All, Background ? Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive. Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. Is there any ?Rule of Thumb? to consider in this decision (such as ?any accdr over X MB should be stored locally?). Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? Thanks, Brad From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 1 21:58:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 22:58:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background ? Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any ?Rule of Thumb? to consider in this decision (such as ?any accdr over X MB should be stored locally?). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 1 22:13:36 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 20:13:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: <63A8AD328AD54326B33AED5A7B6BD34F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Brad: My recommendations would be to centralize the front-end on a server and download a copy to each station when the user starts the application. As the FE module has no data it should load fast regardless. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 7:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? All, Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? Thanks, Brad From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 1 22:29:47 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:29:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 1 23:10:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 14:10:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBE2EC5.16457.E851ED2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Yep, that's what I do as well. -- Stuart On 1 May 2011 at 22:58, jwcolby wrote: > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces > and parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production > directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are > utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > > All, > > > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > > something to do this. > > > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is > > about 20 MB. > > > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that > > each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > > Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the > > local PC?s hard drive. > > > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures > > to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to > > initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > > > Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the > > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front > > End are released. > > > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 08:39:13 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 08:39:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 08:49:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 09:49:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Message-ID: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. Normally it is the other way around. The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 2 08:59:44 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:59:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: That's an odd one. Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. Normally it is the other way around. The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 09:13:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:13:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... PBKAC as so often happens. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > That's an odd one. > > Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. > > Lambert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. > > Normally it is the other way around. > > The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 2 09:28:49 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 10:28:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Ah yes. Context is everything. :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... PBKAC as so often happens. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > That's an odd one. > > Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. > > Lambert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. > > Normally it is the other way around. > > The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 10:15:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 11:15:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBECA99.6020306@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, yep. I was looking at code in Excel and simultaneously copying pieces into Access. I got confused where I was inserting the module and inserted it into Excel when I intended to insert it into Access. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 10:28 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah yes. Context is everything. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:14 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... > > PBKAC as so often happens. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> That's an odd one. >> >> Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. >> >> Lambert >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 >> >> How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. >> >> Normally it is the other way around. >> >> The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 2 11:46:07 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:46:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 12:37:04 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:37:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4dbeebc3.213e970a.73ee.5bc9@mx.google.com> Thanks, I'll look into it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Mon May 2 13:03:54 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:03:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tab control click event In-Reply-To: <88183A49169647A0A40576475839C469@HAL9005> References: <> <032a01cc01b0$c4a1c630$4de55290$@com> <4DB34AC5.14044.33121AEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <038701cc036c$c1856d40$449047c0$@com> <000c01cc038a$e12db120$a3891360$@cox.net> <88183A49169647A0A40576475839C469@HAL9005> Message-ID: <008d01cc08f3$4d6547a0$e82fd6e0$@com> Sorry, guys, just got back from a vacay and didn't see this. I'll try your suggestions. Thanx! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [Spam]8.51 Re: [AccessD] Tab control click event Come to think of it Doug, I did something like that on a tab form where I disappeared the tab and replaced it with a label, which looks nicer, you can format it, and has a Click event where you can do whatever and then set the focus to that page: Me.TabCtl140.Pages(1).SetFocus HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tab control click event Darrell, Why not use buttons to control the tab change and put the refresh code in the button on-click before you change the tab pages? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Tab control click event Howdy. I have a form with a tab control and multiple pages. I have to refresh the table bound to each page as it's clicked. I can do it with the Change event but then you see the table being deleted and refreshed and it looks clunky. What I'd like to do is capture the click or mouse-down event as the user selects a tab so I can do the refresh before the page changes. But none of seem to work. I've put a debug on both the click and mouse-down on the tab control, and on each page control, and I get nothing. Is there some other way of trapping the tab click before it changes? Thx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon May 2 13:41:27 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:41:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com><4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Message-ID: All, Thanks for the help and advice. I really appreciate it. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 2 15:26:34 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 16:26:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> Jim, Mines a little more simplistic then most as I rely on the user to actually execute the batch file, but below is one of the more complex ones I do. The version check is built-into the apps. At startup, I check a local table vs one that is in a copy of the FE up on the server. If the two don't match, I message the user and quit the app. They double click a short cut then to "update", which executes the batch stored on the server in the same location as the "master copy" of the FE. I've meant for a number of years to automate it a little more, but I've found that there is a lot of flexibility in the simplicity of it and just never seem to get around to it. HTH, Jim. ECHO OFF @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Checking for application directories... @ECHO. IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "H:" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%1" == "" GOTO DEFAULT SET HOMEDRIVE=%1 :DEFAULT @ECHO ON %HOMEDRIVE% CD\ @ECHO OFF if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Copying application files... @ECHO. COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.MDE" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.ICO" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\Update.ico" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\vbSendMail.dll" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\XYRLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\IDSLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Setting up environment... @ECHO. "P:\Traverse Custom\SetClientEnv.EXE" TM %HOMEDRIVE% "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom\vbsendmail.dll" /s rem rem Install mswinsck.ocx if local intall. If TS user this has already been done. rem rem rem ************ rem if NOT %HOMEDRIVE% == C: GOTO EXIT COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\mswinsck.ocx" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32" "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\MSWINSCK.OCX" /s :EXIT -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 09:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 15:27:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 16:27:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server - Append records without fail Message-ID: <4DBF13A9.9080503@colbyconsulting.com> In access you can append records into a table and if a given record fails, the rest go in. I use that as a quick and dirty filter sometimes when (for example) appending records from one place to another. AFAICT SQL Server will not append any of the records if any single record fails to append, which has always seemed strange to me. It's almost like an unrequested rollback. Is there any way to make SQL Server accept the appends that will go in and only reject the ones that will not for some reason? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 15:58:53 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 15:58:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> Message-ID: <4dbf1b10.1245960a.1dce.ffffc98a@mx.google.com> Thanks, I appreciate it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 3:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, Mines a little more simplistic then most as I rely on the user to actually execute the batch file, but below is one of the more complex ones I do. The version check is built-into the apps. At startup, I check a local table vs one that is in a copy of the FE up on the server. If the two don't match, I message the user and quit the app. They double click a short cut then to "update", which executes the batch stored on the server in the same location as the "master copy" of the FE. I've meant for a number of years to automate it a little more, but I've found that there is a lot of flexibility in the simplicity of it and just never seem to get around to it. HTH, Jim. ECHO OFF @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Checking for application directories... @ECHO. IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "H:" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%1" == "" GOTO DEFAULT SET HOMEDRIVE=%1 :DEFAULT @ECHO ON %HOMEDRIVE% CD\ @ECHO OFF if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Copying application files... @ECHO. COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.MDE" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.ICO" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\Update.ico" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\vbSendMail.dll" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\XYRLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\IDSLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Setting up environment... @ECHO. "P:\Traverse Custom\SetClientEnv.EXE" TM %HOMEDRIVE% "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom\vbsendmail.dll" /s rem rem Install mswinsck.ocx if local intall. If TS user this has already been done. rem rem rem ************ rem if NOT %HOMEDRIVE% == C: GOTO EXIT COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\mswinsck.ocx" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32" "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\MSWINSCK.OCX" /s :EXIT -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 09:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 2 19:30:02 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 10:30:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either under the start > programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. cheers Darryl ' **************************************************************************************************** ' Command line parameters. ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. ' This is also used for deriving paths. ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. ' ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client against ' the server version number in the version.txt. ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client along with ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other files to be copied to ' the client be scripted separately in the routine 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. ' ' **************************************************************************************************** Dim FS, FileStream dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, intParCount dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile dim copyTheFile Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) call launcher Set objShell = Nothing set FS = nothing sub launcher() on error resume next set args=wscript.arguments applicationName = args(0) sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder" & applicationName & "\" destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\" & applicationName & "\" ' Read the version text files and compare them. if FS.fileexists(destinationPath & "version.txt") then destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath & "version.txt") sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath & "version.txt") copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) else copyTheFile = true end if if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath & applicationname & ".mde") = false) then copyTheFile = true if copyTheFile then FS.CopyFile sourcePath & applicationName & ".mde", destinationPath FS.CopyFile sourcePath & "version.txt", destinationPath copyOtherSpecifiedFiles end if openFile: ' Run the mde. ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" objShell.Run Chr(34) & progToRun & Chr(34) & " " & Chr(34) & destinationPath & applicationName & ".mde" & Chr(34) end sub 'Read text file function GetFile(FileName) If FileName<>"" Then on error resume Next Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll End If End Function ' Copy other files as specified. function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() end function '------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 2 20:55:42 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 18:55:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. For all the information you may need see the following: http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either under the start > programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. cheers Darryl ' **************************************************************************** ************************ ' Command line parameters. ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. ' This is also used for deriving paths. ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. ' ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client against ' the server version number in the version.txt. ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client along with ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other files to be copied to ' the client be scripted separately in the routine 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. ' ' **************************************************************************** ************************ Dim FS, FileStream dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, intParCount dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile dim copyTheFile Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) call launcher Set objShell = Nothing set FS = nothing sub launcher() on error resume next set args=wscript.arguments applicationName = args(0) sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder" & applicationName & "\" destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\" & applicationName & "\" ' Read the version text files and compare them. if FS.fileexists(destinationPath & "version.txt") then destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath & "version.txt") sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath & "version.txt") copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) else copyTheFile = true end if if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath & applicationname & ".mde") = false) then copyTheFile = true if copyTheFile then FS.CopyFile sourcePath & applicationName & ".mde", destinationPath FS.CopyFile sourcePath & "version.txt", destinationPath copyOtherSpecifiedFiles end if openFile: ' Run the mde. ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" objShell.Run Chr(34) & progToRun & Chr(34) & " " & Chr(34) & destinationPath & applicationName & ".mde" & Chr(34) end sub 'Read text file function GetFile(FileName) If FileName<>"" Then on error resume Next Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll End If End Function ' Copy other files as specified. function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() end function '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 21:11:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 22:11:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that point you are sharing the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone is in it making it impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that > the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server > (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a > little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and > improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. > > For all the information you may need see the following: > http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 > > When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost > instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. > > This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. > > Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > > Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to > save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file > and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either > under the start> programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the > script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS > Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something > useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. > > cheers > Darryl > > > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > ' Command line parameters. > ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. > ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. > ' This is also used for deriving paths. > ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. > ' > ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client > against > ' the server version number in the version.txt. > ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client > along with > ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde > ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other > files to be copied to > ' the client be scripted separately in the routine > 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. > ' > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > > Dim FS, FileStream > dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, > intParCount > dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile > dim copyTheFile > > Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") > Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) > > call launcher > > Set objShell = Nothing > set FS = nothing > > sub launcher() > on error resume next > set args=wscript.arguments > > applicationName = args(0) > sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder"& applicationName& "\" > destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\"& applicationName& "\" > > ' Read the version text files and compare them. > if FS.fileexists(destinationPath& "version.txt") then > destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath& "version.txt") > sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath& "version.txt") > copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) > else > copyTheFile = true > end if > > if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath& applicationname& ".mde") = false) then > copyTheFile = true > > if copyTheFile then > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& applicationName& ".mde", destinationPath > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& "version.txt", destinationPath > copyOtherSpecifiedFiles > end if > > openFile: > ' Run the mde. > ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) > progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" > objShell.Run Chr(34)& progToRun& Chr(34)& " "& Chr(34)& destinationPath > & applicationName& ".mde"& Chr(34) > end sub > > > 'Read text file > function GetFile(FileName) > If FileName<>"" Then > > on error resume Next > Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) > GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll > End If > End Function > > ' Copy other files as specified. > function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() > end function > '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you > do it? > I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. > Would someone please post the script. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the > local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are > different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and > then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All > they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest > happens seamlessly in the background. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and > parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on > the server every time > they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and > only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. >> >> Currently no change control software, but we could put together something > to do this. >> >> We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 > MB. >> >> We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user > can have their own copy of the Front End. >> >> We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's > hard drive. >> >> Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to > release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate > the application when it is stored on the file server. >> >> Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are > released. >> >> Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any > accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). >> >> Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> >> >> From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 2 23:00:47 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:00:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: Hmmm, I see your concerns. The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed in Access97 so that dates it. :-) The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that point you are sharing the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone is in it making it impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that > the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server > (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a > little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and > improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. > > For all the information you may need see the following: > http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 > > When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost > instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. > > This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. > > Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > > Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to > save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file > and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either > under the start> programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the > script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS > Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something > useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. > > cheers > Darryl > > > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > ' Command line parameters. > ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. > ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. > ' This is also used for deriving paths. > ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. > ' > ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client > against > ' the server version number in the version.txt. > ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client > along with > ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde > ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other > files to be copied to > ' the client be scripted separately in the routine > 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. > ' > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > > Dim FS, FileStream > dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, > intParCount > dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile > dim copyTheFile > > Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") > Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) > > call launcher > > Set objShell = Nothing > set FS = nothing > > sub launcher() > on error resume next > set args=wscript.arguments > > applicationName = args(0) > sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder"& applicationName& "\" > destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\"& applicationName& "\" > > ' Read the version text files and compare them. > if FS.fileexists(destinationPath& "version.txt") then > destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath& "version.txt") > sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath& "version.txt") > copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) > else > copyTheFile = true > end if > > if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath& applicationname& ".mde") = false) then > copyTheFile = true > > if copyTheFile then > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& applicationName& ".mde", destinationPath > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& "version.txt", destinationPath > copyOtherSpecifiedFiles > end if > > openFile: > ' Run the mde. > ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) > progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" > objShell.Run Chr(34)& progToRun& Chr(34)& " "& Chr(34)& destinationPath > & applicationName& ".mde"& Chr(34) > end sub > > > 'Read text file > function GetFile(FileName) > If FileName<>"" Then > > on error resume Next > Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) > GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll > End If > End Function > > ' Copy other files as specified. > function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() > end function > '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you > do it? > I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. > Would someone please post the script. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the > local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are > different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and > then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All > they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest > happens seamlessly in the background. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and > parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on > the server every time > they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and > only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. >> >> Currently no change control software, but we could put together something > to do this. >> >> We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 > MB. >> >> We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user > can have their own copy of the Front End. >> >> We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's > hard drive. >> >> Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to > release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate > the application when it is stored on the file server. >> >> Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are > released. >> >> Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any > accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). >> >> Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 3 05:44:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 06:44:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is > locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) > Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the > clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on > to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server >> (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a >> little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue May 3 09:27:12 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 07:27:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. Charlotte Foust On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code below. > RTE is a long var. > code generates no errors up to the last line. > I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > any ideas?? > > > > 'populate the object variables > Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > CONNECT_STR) > conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) > DoEvents > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From RRANTHON at sentara.com Tue May 3 11:00:21 2011 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (RANDALL R ANTHONY) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 12:00:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Off the top of my head... Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. Charlotte Foust On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code below. > RTE is a long var. > code generates no errors up to the last line. > I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > any ideas?? > > > > 'populate the object variables > Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > CONNECT_STR) > conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) > DoEvents > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue May 3 11:12:47 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:12:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the > name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ?Someone else can > correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) >> DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 13:05:20 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:05:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Thanks again to all. dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, just a number that I know is good.... RTE is a long var. "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 The code generates no errors up to the last line. I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. Sure would like to figure this out.. Latest Code - not working: CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName 'populate the object variables Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, CONNECT_STR) conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ? > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >> True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From RRANTHON at sentara.com Tue May 3 13:12:50 2011 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (RANDALL R ANTHONY) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:12:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <201105031812.p43ICuxx025070@databaseadvisors.com> Dumb question, does the user account you're passing have EXEC permissions on the SQL end? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Thanks again to all. dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, just a number that I know is good.... RTE is a long var. "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 The code generates no errors up to the last line. I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. Sure would like to figure this out.. Latest Code - not working: CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName 'populate the object variables Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, CONNECT_STR) conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ? > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >> True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 13:49:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:49:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <99DF528B39914B08877C18911D346A83@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is > locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) > Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the > clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on > to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server >> (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a >> little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue May 3 14:16:11 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 07:16:11 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, >just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) >DoEvents >conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder >if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the >parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if >you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >> True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 3 14:36:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:36:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Message-ID: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 15:29:21 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:29:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 3 15:49:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 06:49:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If the parameter in the sp is some sort of string, as suggested by '" & "M" & "'", try conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & Trim$(RTE) & "'" i.e. embed RTE in single quotes and trim the leading space placeholder for "+/-" -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 11:05, b heygood wrote: > 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 3 15:55:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 06:55:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net>, <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Horsepucky. Most of my larger sites use Enterprise Licensing. All of their copies of Access have the same licence. -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 13:29, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized > that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different > license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 16:12:19 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:12:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <30A7B783CEB84966AF681BA1C6B4EC84@creativesystemdesigns.com> You are emphasizing " Enterprise Licensing " which rarely the situation when I come on site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Horsepucky. Most of my larger sites use Enterprise Licensing. All of their copies of Access have the same licence. -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 13:29, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized > that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different > license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 16:38:56 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:38:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <7243B4E2C72C458880EED1AC43BF9419@Seven> no, the parameter is a long integer. I just was trying various..... thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server If the parameter in the sp is some sort of string, as suggested by '" & "M" & "'", try conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & Trim$(RTE) & "'" i.e. embed RTE in single quotes and trim the leading space placeholder for "+/-" -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 11:05, b heygood wrote: > 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 16:40:57 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:40:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 3 16:48:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:48:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Transactions in Access Message-ID: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> Hi Jim, This is the code for transactions in Access. This shows just one procedure, where two different tables are affected. If your code is running through several procedures, where a total of 2 or more table operations are performed, then the transactions code should 'encapsulate' all of those procedures. If you are only performing an operation on one table, then your normal error handling method can pick up on that. A caveat - transactions will rollback where you are executing a SQL string (or using DoCmd.RunSQL), but not when you are changing values in a form, and not if you are changing values using a recordset. So, you must not have those data-changing operations within the code that is encapsulated by ws.BeginTrans and ws.EndTrans. I had to do a little 'refactoring', but it worked out. In addition, this will speed up your system. What happens is that none of the changes are actually 'committed' until you reach the ws.CommitTrans method, so a committed data change is done only once. So transactions can also be used as a method to speed up your application where you have multiple discrete table operations in a single code execution sequence. For Access transactions, the help files were pretty good. Hope this helps! '------------------------- Sub XXX Dim ws As Workspace '-- Some code Set ws = DBEngine(0) ws.BeginTrans On Error GoTo EH ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "DELETE ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "INSERT ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ws.CommitTrans dbForceOSFlush On Error GoTo 0 '-- More code XH: '-- Exit Here Set ws = Nothing Exit sub EH: '-- Error Handler ws.Rollback Call RollbackErrorMessage '-- Optional Resume XH End Sub '------------------------- Public Sub RollbackErrorMessage() Dim stgPrompt As String stgPrompt = "The action you just took was cancelled because the data changes could not be saved to the server. No changes have been saved - wait a few seconds and try again." _ & vbNewLine & vbNewLine _ & "This probably happened due to a multi-user data change conflict, but might have happened due to an error. If this happens frequently, contact your System Administrator.@ @" FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, stgPrompt, vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "No Changes Saved" Exit Sub ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Sub '------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue May 3 17:22:01 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 15:22:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> Message-ID: Bob, you might have already mentioned this, but... Can you open the query from the F11/database window? Does Access prompt you for the parameter? On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 PM, b heygood wrote: > no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything > to test. > No, just one parameter. > thx for responding. > > > bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > Bob, > > You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " > conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? > > If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to > the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. > Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. > Does it have more than 1 parameter? > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > New Zealand > > > > > At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: > >Thanks again to all. > > > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a > >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > > > >RTE is a long var. > >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 > >The code generates no errors up to the last line. > >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >Sure would like to figure this out.. > > > >Latest Code - not working: > > > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & > >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > > > >'populate the object variables > >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >True, > >CONNECT_STR) > >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute > >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" > >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > > > > >Bob Heygood > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly > >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't > recall. > >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I > >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name > >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the > >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > > > >wrote: > > > Off the top of my head... > > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > > parameter > >for an SP. > > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > > in > >some manner. > > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" > wrote: > > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > > >> code > > > below. > > >> RTE is a long var. > > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > >> > > >> any ideas?? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 'populate the object variables > > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > > >> CONNECT_STR) > > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > >> > > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 3 18:06:19 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:06:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> Message-ID: <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Thu May 5 09:45:38 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 07:45:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> Yes, the sp works on the server. I am checking on my user security level, tho my attachment / linking of tables is using the same user/pass data and successful. Sure would like to figure this out. thx to all who responded. Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 13:05:26 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:05:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) Message-ID: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> I work for Gwen, primarily doing genealogy. When there are computer issues while I'm here, she has me troubleshoot them too. Last week, day after her husband was burned over 27% of her body, one of her two printers broke and I had to run to store and get another. Old one HP OfficeJet Pro 8500, new one the next newer model, HP OfficeJet Pro 8500A. Even though mostly identical, the default name of old one in list of printers has a 909 in it and the new one has a 910 in it. Can't give you exact as I'm upstairs in my office and that computer/printer combo is downstairs in living room. I don't believe it's pertinent anyway. Point is they are almost identical. Now, on to the problem. Old database, I think originally Access 2000. Not a very professionally done one, but it works. Tons of names/addresses. More than a dozen reports for envelopes alone as there are different font, return address, and envelope size combinations for different purposes. Trying to print one gives a message to the effect of this was formatted for abc printer which isn't available do you want to print to default printer. After doing a bunch of Googling, I successfully opened one of the reports in design view, which along the way asked about the printer and I chose the new printer. Then saved the report. I can now print - HOWEVER. #10 envelope, it used to be: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| But now it's printing 3 envelopes like this -------------| Printing | | | | | | | | -------------| Then Addressee on next envelope and then a blank one. All I did was change the printer, so why did it change the orientation? How do I fix the whole db without having to change each report separately? I found a bunch of pages that talk about changing printers programmatically and other terms but they were all beyond my kindergarten skills of access. I'm fairly decent except when it comes to the visual basic stuff. Tables, queries using drag/drop, reports, I'm ok with, but not code. So remember that when you help. I can send a copy of the database if that would help, but of course you don't have our printers. It's 11am my time, I leave for home at 3pm (not back until Monday). Gwen's desperate as she has lots of envelopes to print to mail updates on husband's condition to those without email (he's in first skin graft surgery as I write). Handwriting them not an option as she's got post-polio and writing that many envelopes is problematic. Here's hoping one of you has a quick solution I can understand and act on. -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Thu May 5 15:05:00 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 08:05:00 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> Message-ID: <20110505200732.EUZ26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Bob, Have you tried running any other stored procedures using your code (even creating a simple one with no parameters)? David At 6/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Yes, the sp works on the server. > >I am checking on my user security level, tho my attachment / linking of >tables is using the same user/pass data and successful. > >Sure would like to figure this out. > >thx to all who responded. > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:06 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything >to test. >No, just one parameter. >thx for responding. > > >bob > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >Bob, > >You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " >conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? > >If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to >the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. >Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. >Does it have more than 1 parameter? > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >New Zealand > > > > >At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: > >Thanks again to all. > > > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a > >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > > > >RTE is a long var. > >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 > >The code generates no errors up to the last line. > >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >Sure would like to figure this out.. > > > >Latest Code - not working: > > > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & > >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > > > >'populate the object variables > >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >True, > >CONNECT_STR) > >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute > >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" > >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > > > > >Bob Heygood > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly > >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't >recall. > >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I > >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name > >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the > >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > > > >wrote: > > > Off the top of my head... > > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > > parameter > >for an SP. > > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > > in > >some manner. > > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > > >> code > > > below. > > >> RTE is a long var. > > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > >> > > >> any ideas?? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 'populate the object variables > > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > > >> CONNECT_STR) > > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > >> > > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 15:10:27 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:10:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> Message-ID: <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> Making progress. It looks like I will ultimately have to take care of things one report at a time, but that's doable. I can get the printer and the orientation to stick. That issue turned out to be that I have to save the report itself. Saving the database doesn't save the change in the report. However, there is still something wrong. Instead of printing this: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| It's eliminating the Return address and printing the Addressee at the top of the envelope like this: -----------------------| Addressee | | -----------------------| I didn't change anything on the layout itself, so don't know why that's happening. The only difference in the way the envelope goes in the printer is that it goes in the tray this way -------------| \ | \ | \ | \ | / | / | / | / | -------------| Instead of this way -------------| /| / | / | / | \ | \ | \ | \| -------------| On OT, John B suggested "Personally, since it's just a standard #10 envelope report, I'd just start over and create a new report to work with any printer". But I can't figure out how to make a new report based on a standard envelope. Haven't found a place to say "make a report based on #10". I always have to set the sizes of the page by dragging the margins, etc and futz around with it. How do you do it? I'd love to have a quick/easy way to do it, especially since I not only have the #10's but some A9's and A8's as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope#North_American_sizes -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu May 5 15:33:21 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:33:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Kathryn To set the layout to a #10 envelope, open a new report in design mode and select Page Setup from the File menu (I'm doing this in Access 2002, but A97 was the same AFIR). >From there select the Page tab, and choose #10 from the Paper Size combo. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 4:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) Making progress. It looks like I will ultimately have to take care of things one report at a time, but that's doable. I can get the printer and the orientation to stick. That issue turned out to be that I have to save the report itself. Saving the database doesn't save the change in the report. However, there is still something wrong. Instead of printing this: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| It's eliminating the Return address and printing the Addressee at the top of the envelope like this: -----------------------| Addressee | | -----------------------| I didn't change anything on the layout itself, so don't know why that's happening. The only difference in the way the envelope goes in the printer is that it goes in the tray this way -------------| \ | \ | \ | \ | / | / | / | / | -------------| Instead of this way -------------| /| / | / | / | \ | \ | \ | \| -------------| On OT, John B suggested "Personally, since it's just a standard #10 envelope report, I'd just start over and create a new report to work with any printer". But I can't figure out how to make a new report based on a standard envelope. Haven't found a place to say "make a report based on #10". I always have to set the sizes of the page by dragging the margins, etc and futz around with it. How do you do it? I'd love to have a quick/easy way to do it, especially since I not only have the #10's but some A9's and A8's as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope#North_American_sizes -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 16:36:14 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:36:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> Message-ID: <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but at least she'll be able to print them. -- Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 5 17:43:47 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 15:43:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> Check your margins. It sounds like the margin is set wider than the print stock so your getting an extra page. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but at least she'll be able to print them. -- Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Thu May 5 21:35:09 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:35:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> Message-ID: <007801cc0b96$383b92d0$a8b2b870$@net> I thought about that but the page setting is for #10 envelope. In properties, there's no place for margins. I tightened up things even with that, and it still didn't make a difference. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 3:44 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) > > Check your margins. It sounds like the margin is set wider than the print > stock so your getting an extra page. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:36 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) > > More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope > for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but > at least she'll be able to print them. > > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 5 21:58:04 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:58:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Transactions in Access In-Reply-To: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> References: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6AB8C63AF3C746518109B00DCE9EF845@creativesystemdesigns.com> Well Dan: I just keep learning things... Thanks for the information. Whether this knowledge finds a place in the old tool box we will have to wait and see. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Transactions in Access Hi Jim, This is the code for transactions in Access. This shows just one procedure, where two different tables are affected. If your code is running through several procedures, where a total of 2 or more table operations are performed, then the transactions code should 'encapsulate' all of those procedures. If you are only performing an operation on one table, then your normal error handling method can pick up on that. A caveat - transactions will rollback where you are executing a SQL string (or using DoCmd.RunSQL), but not when you are changing values in a form, and not if you are changing values using a recordset. So, you must not have those data-changing operations within the code that is encapsulated by ws.BeginTrans and ws.EndTrans. I had to do a little 'refactoring', but it worked out. In addition, this will speed up your system. What happens is that none of the changes are actually 'committed' until you reach the ws.CommitTrans method, so a committed data change is done only once. So transactions can also be used as a method to speed up your application where you have multiple discrete table operations in a single code execution sequence. For Access transactions, the help files were pretty good. Hope this helps! '------------------------- Sub XXX Dim ws As Workspace '-- Some code Set ws = DBEngine(0) ws.BeginTrans On Error GoTo EH ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "DELETE ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "INSERT ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ws.CommitTrans dbForceOSFlush On Error GoTo 0 '-- More code XH: '-- Exit Here Set ws = Nothing Exit sub EH: '-- Error Handler ws.Rollback Call RollbackErrorMessage '-- Optional Resume XH End Sub '------------------------- Public Sub RollbackErrorMessage() Dim stgPrompt As String stgPrompt = "The action you just took was cancelled because the data changes could not be saved to the server. No changes have been saved - wait a few seconds and try again." _ & vbNewLine & vbNewLine _ & "This probably happened due to a multi-user data change conflict, but might have happened due to an error. If this happens frequently, contact your System Administrator.@ @" FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, stgPrompt, vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "No Changes Saved" Exit Sub ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Sub '------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 08:51:13 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:51:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized Message-ID: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Hi, I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is resized. I have this code, on a test form. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Dim mbUnloading As Boolean Private Sub Form_Load() Debug.Print "Load" End Sub Private Sub Form_Resize() If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub Debug.Print "Resize" End Sub Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) Debug.Print "Unloading" mbUnloading = True End Sub The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times instead of twice? In fact, since multiple clicks of the command button that maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: Private Sub Form_Load() DoCmd.Maximize End Sub From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 6 12:27:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:27:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form is reopened. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > Hi, > > I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is > resized. I have this code, on a test form. > > Option Compare Database > Option Explicit > Dim mbUnloading As Boolean > > Private Sub Form_Load() > ? ? Debug.Print "Load" > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Resize() > ? ? If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub > ? ? Debug.Print "Resize" > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) > ? ? Debug.Print "Unloading" > ? ? mbUnloading = True > End Sub > > > The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the > form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the > resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. > But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word > "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is > running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? > > Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had > last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on > form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button > click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why > Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times > instead of twice? In fact, ?since multiple clicks of the command button that > maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me > that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should > be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: > ? ? ? ?Private Sub Form_Load() > ? ? ? ? ? ? DoCmd.Maximize > ? ? ? ?End Sub > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 16:17:31 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:17:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Charlotte .... I do not follow you. Since the application is calling the event an indeterminate number of times I don't know where to set the variable to True. And where to set it to False. I want the procedures to run once on Form Load and then again only any time the user changes the form size by any means EXCEPT merely deactivating and reactivating the form. I have struggled with this for hours. I did have a IgnoreResize variable which I would set to true in the Load event.... and then set to False before exiting Resize event. but because it passes through resize event up to three times when form is maxed then some unwanted repetitions happen. I think some of my code inside the Resize event that is altering the insidewidth, optimizing widths of certain controls, and proportioning distances between some controls is causing Resize to get called again. Not sure...very hard to debug. For example I use CreateForm to create a hidden form with a label that I can SizeToFit to assist with determining the optimal width of some controls on my other form that got resized by the user or on Load. This causes my main form to be deactivated I suppose, triggering the Resize event on the main form. Again ....hard to know what the code is doing to form focuses in the runtime because I can't get the same behaviors I'm debug mode than when not debugging. I am soon to skip the whole resize event and add a button for optimizing form insidewidth and the position of controls. I am just too inexperienced and impatient. On May 6, 2011 1:29 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: > Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last > window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes > through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading > variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set > when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where > you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. > Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form > is reopened. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) > wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is >> resized. I have this code, on a test form. >> >> Option Compare Database >> Option Explicit >> Dim mbUnloading As Boolean >> >> Private Sub Form_Load() >> Debug.Print "Load" >> End Sub >> >> Private Sub Form_Resize() >> If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub >> Debug.Print "Resize" >> End Sub >> >> Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) >> Debug.Print "Unloading" >> mbUnloading = True >> End Sub >> >> >> The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the >> form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the >> resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. >> But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word >> "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is >> running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? >> >> Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had >> last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on >> form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button >> click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why >> Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times >> instead of twice? In fact, since multiple clicks of the command button that >> maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me >> that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should >> be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: >> Private Sub Form_Load() >> DoCmd.Maximize >> End Sub >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Fri May 6 17:00:44 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:00:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Message-ID: Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 17:53:53 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 18:53:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 6 19:50:19 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:50:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Set the variable to False in the Open event, then set it to true in the resize event. Test for the value in the resize event and if it's false, run the code and set it to true. Is that clearer? I'm assuming you only want to call this when the form first loads, not if the user resizes it. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:17 PM, William Benson wrote: > Hi Charlotte .... > I do not follow you. Since the application is calling the event an > indeterminate number of times I don't know where to set the variable to > True. And where to set it to False. > > I want the procedures to run once on Form Load and then again only any time > the user changes the form size by any means EXCEPT merely deactivating and > reactivating the form. > > I have struggled with this for hours. I did have a IgnoreResize variable > which I would set to true in the Load event.... and then set to False before > exiting Resize event. but because it passes through resize event up to three > times when form is maxed then some unwanted repetitions happen. > > I think some of my code inside the Resize event that is altering the > insidewidth, optimizing widths of certain controls, and proportioning > distances between some controls is causing Resize to get called again. Not > sure...very hard to debug. For example I use CreateForm to create a hidden > form with a label that I can SizeToFit to assist with determining the > optimal width of some controls on my other form that got resized by the user > or on Load. This causes my main form to be deactivated I suppose, triggering > the Resize event on the main form. Again ....hard to know what the code is > doing to form focuses in the runtime because I can't get the same behaviors > I'm debug mode than when not debugging. > > I am soon to skip the whole resize event and add a button for optimizing > form insidewidth and the position of controls. I am just too inexperienced > and impatient. > On May 6, 2011 1:29 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: >> Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last >> window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes >> through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading >> variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set >> when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where >> you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. >> Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form >> is reopened. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is >>> resized. I have this code, on a test form. >>> >>> Option Compare Database >>> Option Explicit >>> Dim mbUnloading As Boolean >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Load() >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Load" >>> End Sub >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Resize() >>> ? ? If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Resize" >>> End Sub >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Unloading" >>> ? ? mbUnloading = True >>> End Sub >>> >>> >>> The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the >>> form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the >>> resize event is called only once according to the immediate window > results. >>> But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word >>> "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is >>> running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? >>> >>> Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form > had >>> last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times > on >>> form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a > button >>> click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why >>> Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times >>> instead of twice? In fact, ?since multiple clicks of the command button > that >>> maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to > me >>> that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize > should >>> be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: >>> ? ? ? ?Private Sub Form_Load() >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? DoCmd.Maximize >>> ? ? ? ?End Sub >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sat May 7 04:42:31 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 19:42:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Message-ID: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 7 06:22:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 07:22:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC52B81.8070507@colbyconsulting.com> Are you sure the stack overflow is occurring in this function? IOW if you don't do this count do you eventually get the stack overflow? If so then my guess is a follows: Local variables inside of a function are placed on the stack. In this case the local variable that could be giving you problems is the F as string. What may be happening is that this F is getting extremely long and filling up the stack. Make F global. Doing so will force VBA to place the variable on the heap which is essentially infinite, and thus the size of F can grow as big as needed. Can you use the File System Object? This is an object that represents the file system of the computer. Using that would allow you to directly get the count of files in the directory object. Unfortunately in many cases the FSO is not available if tight security has been implemented. Check it out though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/7/2011 5:42 AM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just > want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some > occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer > window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have > a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually > run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder& "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f)<> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow > errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat May 7 07:36:11 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 07:36:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <000f01cc0cb3$591528e0$0b3f7aa0$@comcast.net> Whenever I do anything file related, I include a DoEvents method - like this: Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ DoEvents Loop I've solved a lot of issues this way. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren - Active Billing Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:43 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 7 14:42:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 12:42:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <818FFDBFCF624C11BD68366986E5CA9C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Darren: Do any of your calls open objects but do not close them and set them to nothing on exiting the function or subroutine? If this is the case then you could have a stack over-flow. The only other reason I can think of is if you are assigning too much data to a specific variable or object. Note: I have found application objects very prone to stack over-flows and other bizarre activities if not handled just right. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren - Active Billing Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 2:43 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 7 15:18:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 06:18:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC5A92D.8351.DAE0371@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is repeatedly calling that sub. I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! -- Stuart On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I > just want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on > some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an > Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that > (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I > eventually run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f) <> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack > Overflow errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun May 8 20:47:48 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 11:47:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder - solved Message-ID: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> Hi guys Thanks for the responses. I rejigged it all - especially taking note of what Stuart said about the issue being in the loop not the call I also got some of the math done at the start point and held them in globals rather than doing the all the math each time in the loop And it's all good So it seems the logic and methods were (kinda) ok - the placement and order of them was not Many thanks for your ideas and pointers Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, 8 May 2011 6:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is repeatedly calling that sub. I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! -- Stuart On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I > just want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on > some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an > Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that > (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I > eventually run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f) <> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack > Overflow errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 09:39:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 10:39:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder - solved In-Reply-To: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> References: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC7FCBD.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Glad you got it working. Thanks for reporting back. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/8/2011 9:47 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > Thanks for the responses. > I rejigged it all - especially taking note of what Stuart said about the > issue being in the loop not the call > I also got some of the math done at the start point and held them in globals > rather than doing the all the math each time in the loop > And it's all good > So it seems the logic and methods were (kinda) ok - the placement and order > of them was not > Many thanks for your ideas and pointers > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, 8 May 2011 6:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder > > Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is > repeatedly calling that sub. > I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! > > -- > Stuart > > On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help >> >> We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I >> just want to count them during the process. >> >> I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. >> >> I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on >> some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. >> >> Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an >> Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. >> >> Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that >> (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). >> >> Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I >> eventually run into stack overflows. >> >> Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. >> >> >> >> Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) >> >> Dim f As String >> >> Dim c As Long >> >> >> >> f = Dir$(strPathFolder& "*.xml") >> >> >> >> Do While Len(f)<> 0 >> >> c = c + 1 >> >> f = Dir$ >> >> Loop >> >> >> >> End sub >> >> >> >> I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack >> Overflow errors. >> >> I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 >> seconds to update the progress bar. >> >> But it looks like this is not going to be possible >> >> Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? >> Thanks heaps in advance team >> Darren >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 09:55:10 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:55:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SusanAccessD at azmom.com Mon May 9 10:42:18 2011 From: SusanAccessD at azmom.com (SusanAccessD at azmom.com) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 08:42:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 9 10:51:54 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 11:51:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 12:07:54 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 12:07:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com><003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: Well Thanks guys and gals. We couldn't get the SQL instructions to work it kept returning Object not found "Select * From, Project Month And Year" However somehow I tried this MonthStartDate = DLookup("[MonthStartDate]", (cstrQryName)) MonthEndDate = DLookup("[MonthEndDate]", (cstrQryName)) And I got it to work. I had tried it before but must have had something just not right. I have been working on this for two days. I changed the variables to MSD and MED jut to see if they were extracted from the table. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 9 12:18:24 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:18:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com><003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the spaces in the query name. Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 1:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Well Thanks guys and gals. We couldn't get the SQL instructions to work it kept returning Object not found "Select * From, Project Month And Year" However somehow I tried this MonthStartDate = DLookup("[MonthStartDate]", (cstrQryName)) MonthEndDate = DLookup("[MonthEndDate]", (cstrQryName)) And I got it to work. I had tried it before but must have had something just not right. I have been working on this for two days. I changed the variables to MSD and MED jut to see if they were extracted from the table. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 12:22:56 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:22:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 13:31:36 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:31:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 15:21:58 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:21:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003901cc0e86$c051e1e0$40f5a5a0$@gmail.com> >>a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. A fiscal calendar table is the way to go. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 9 15:47:51 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:47:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Message-ID: Hi Steve If so, these functions may be useful for you: Public Function DateWeekFirst( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the first date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekFirst = DateAdd("d", vbSunday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function Public Function DateWeekLast( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the last date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekLast = DateAdd("d", vbSaturday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function /gustav >>> sturner at mseco.com 09-05-2011 20:31 >>> Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 16:50:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 07:50:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Advice to young developers: Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. :-) -- Stuart On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > spaces in the query name. > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > Lambert :-) > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 16:54:43 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:54:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , , <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thanks good advice. I normally don't. Jut did on this. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 4:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Advice to young developers: Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. :-) -- Stuart On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > spaces in the query name. > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > Lambert :-) > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon May 9 16:54:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 14:54:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: So true! Let's not forget naming fields "Date, Month, Year" and "Name" :) D On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it > WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > > spaces in the query name. > > > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > > > Lambert :-) > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 16:55:57 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:55:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Gustav We will keep and try this out. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 3:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Hi Steve If so, these functions may be useful for you: Public Function DateWeekFirst( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the first date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekFirst = DateAdd("d", vbSunday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function Public Function DateWeekLast( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the last date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekLast = DateAdd("d", vbSaturday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function /gustav >>> sturner at mseco.com 09-05-2011 20:31 >>> Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 17:35:51 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 18:35:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000501cc0e99$740101f0$5c0305d0$@gmail.com> And Value and Index... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help So true! Let's not forget naming fields "Date, Month, Year" and "Name" :) D On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was > > the spaces in the query name. > > > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > > > Lambert :-) > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 17:40:10 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 18:40:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor Message-ID: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code for in Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no problem." Well, it kinda is. One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control write code such as Ctrl.Top (there is no "Top" property associated with every single Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went back to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. Is this a setting that can be banished? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 18:18:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:18:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 9 18:32:10 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:32:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3F42E714F91E4588A82B867C764EE25D@XPS> Steve, A query def simply represents a stored SQL statement. So you can do this: 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) If rstEnd.EOF then MSD = Null MED = Null Else MED = rstEnd![MonthStartDate] MED = rstEnd![MonthEndDate] End If rstEnd.Close Set rstEnd = Nothing Or this: strSQL = "SELECT * FROM ;" Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(strSQL) If rstEnd.EOF then MSD = Null MED = Null Else MED = rstEnd![MonthStartDate] MED = rstEnd![MonthEndDate] End If rstEnd.Close Set rstEnd = Nothing Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 9 19:18:18 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 10:18:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 9 19:43:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 17:43:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5C3DF38D939247C59F8F1099EC2ACF82@HAL9005> I was warned off them when I first joined this list in A97 days - all domain functions actually because they were so much slower than opening a recordset either filtered or using FindFirst to get a value, and then closing it. I use them now to look up things in local tables or on linked tables in places in the code where I know it will not be in a loop with lots of iterations - like retrieving a value from a preferences table. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 9 20:21:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 20:21:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also installed? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 20:37:44 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:37:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com>, <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DC896E8.16313.E6400@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Installed, yes. In use, no. Many people use non MS email clients even though they are using Word, Excel etc. On 9 May 2011 at 20:21, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is > also installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 20:44:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:44:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> More info required. Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. Just about every email client uses a different format for storing retreived. On 9 May 2011 at 19:18, jwcolby wrote: > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 9 20:57:35 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:57:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC896E8.16313.E6400@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105100157.p4A1vgon017650@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Maybe not even installed anymore if they are using the newer versions of Office. For several options of the Office Suites you need to purchase MS Outlook seperately now (same with MS Access). I can't speak for everyone, but at this point I gave up on MS Outlook and now use Thunderbird instead. Can't really see any upside to paying extra mulla for an Email client & Calendar I don't use much anyway. If it was included I would have kept using it but now it is not even installed on my windows 7 PC. Of course other folks may find more value with continuing to use MS Outlook and are prepared to pay the money (It was about $100 AUD last time I looked, but that was a while back now), but it is likely to be less of a 'given' now included as a default software package in all Office Suites. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] POP mail automation Installed, yes. In use, no. Many people use non MS email clients even though they are using Word, Excel etc. On 9 May 2011 at 20:21, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is > also installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 21:21:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:21:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DC8A12C.10005@colbyconsulting.com> > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also installed? Nope. I am setting up an Access runtime, and Outlook is not included AFAICT. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/9/2011 9:21 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also > installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now > need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is > that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's > machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 21:29:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:29:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DC8A318.3060000@colbyconsulting.com> > Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. Well, it really depends on what I am doing. I think pull down the emails and allow Access to "read them". Just as an example one client will be sending out email to volunteers working an event. I would like to set up some sort of "opt-out" where they could reply with a code in the subject which would cause me to remove them from the list. In other cases I might send out a word document which the user could open and fill out and then return. I have never done either of these things so I am not exactly sure where I can take this. Basically I need to be able to pull in emails into a lightweight automatable client and do things with them. I automate Outlook for clients, but I cannot be certain that the user of any given app will own outlook. At a minimum I would like to be able to read the from, subject and also see attachments. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/9/2011 9:44 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > More info required. > > Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access > application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. > > Just about every email client uses a different format for storing retreived. > > > > On 9 May 2011 at 19:18, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small >> e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but >> I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. >> The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is >> running on the user's machine. >> >> Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from >> Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing >> list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon May 9 23:39:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 21:39:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor In-Reply-To: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> References: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Why are you trying to write code using a property that doesn't apply to the generic object? If you wait until you set the control object to a particular kind of control that has a Top property, your code will work. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:40 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code for in > Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no problem." Well, > it kinda is. > > One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control write > code such as > > Ctrl.Top ? ? ?(there is no "Top" property associated with every single > Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing > Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went back > to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. > > Is this a setting that can be banished? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 10 01:32:47 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 02:32:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor In-Reply-To: References: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000a01cc0edc$14b56d10$3e204730$@gmail.com> My code traditionally includes loops like For each ctrl in Controls If TypeOf Ctrl is Access.CommandButton then If Ctrl.Caption like "ButtonsOnRightOfForm*" then Set Btn = Ctrl 'Do something based on the .Left property of the Button But frequently I take a shortcut and just use If TypeOf Ctrl is Access.CommandButton then If Ctrl.Caption like "ButtonsOnRightOfForm*" then 'Do something based on the .Left property of Ctrl Anyway, my question about the VBE still hangs out there if you or another has an answer... it is a different behavior between 2010 and 2003 unless it involves an Option in the VBE which I do not know about. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor Why are you trying to write code using a property that doesn't apply to the generic object? If you wait until you set the control object to a particular kind of control that has a Top property, your code will work. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:40 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code > for in Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no > problem." Well, it kinda is. > > One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control > write code such as > > Ctrl.Top ? ? ?(there is no "Top" property associated with every single > Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing > Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went > back to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. > > Is this a setting that can be banished? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From palodurogrowers at suddenlink.net Tue May 10 08:30:24 2011 From: palodurogrowers at suddenlink.net (Tim Thiessen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:30:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I used to be a member but have been off for several years because of job changes. I can't seem to get to the archives. Are they still available? I'm looking for information on using Access with Quickbooks. Tim Thiessen From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 08:43:41 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:43:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Darryl I've never had any issue with DLookup, and it is not true that it is slow. It can be slow, but so can opening and searching a recordset be. Indeed in reports, speed often is of minor importance. That said, I don't use it that much, but here and there it provides a quick and simple solution. Like everything else it can be abused, and that seems to be the case in your application. /gustav >>> Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au 10-05-2011 02:18 >>> Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 10 08:46:41 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 09:46:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 08:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 08:54:22 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:54:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Darryl Jim is right, such constructions are awful. But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in one call indeed is possible, like: =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 09:56:59 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 16:56:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: Hi John You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp Example code for reading headers only: http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18 >>> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 10 12:03:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 13:03:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> It is inexpensive. Have you used it? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/10/2011 10:56 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: > > http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp > > Example code for reading headers only: > http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18>>> > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured > out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail > account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the > user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 12:51:33 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:51:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Hi All I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to do a multiple LIKE selection from Access XP ie in the query criteria [Status] LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting a syntax error from the ODBC driver Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, any help greatly appreciated..... TIA Robin Lawrence From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue May 10 12:57:22 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 12:57:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses % instead of the asterisk. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi All I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to do a multiple LIKE selection from Access XP ie in the query criteria [Status] LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting a syntax error from the ODBC driver Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, any help greatly appreciated..... TIA Robin Lawrence -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 13:11:31 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 19:11:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue May 10 15:30:52 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 22:30:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue May 10 15:42:32 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 16:42:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> Message-ID: I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 16:27:11 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 22:27:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J><89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J><1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> Message-ID: <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> That's right Lambert, Some of us are still too lazy to write out the proper SQL :) Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pharold at cfl.rr.com Tue May 10 16:36:48 2011 From: pharold at cfl.rr.com (Perry Harold) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 17:36:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help References: , , <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: If you switch from Access to VB it hits you in the teeth almost immediately. Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it > WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > >> Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a >> Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the >> spaces in the query name. >> >> Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" >> >> You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" >> >> Lambert :-) >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue May 10 16:55:31 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 23:55:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J><89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J><1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <36D2F38B804645DF8175B0D5F79DF357@abpc> Happy to know my grammar was right ;-) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 23:27 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC That's right Lambert, Some of us are still too lazy to write out the proper SQL :) Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 10 17:03:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:03:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC9B623.17917.4706177@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And combining that technique with Split() to get the fields into an array for further use can make it even more useful. -- Stuart On 10 May 2011 at 15:54, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Darryl > > Jim is right, such constructions are awful. > But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in > one call indeed is possible, like: > > =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & > [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> > Darryl, > > All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, > which can > be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. > > Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL > statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot > optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you > should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. > > As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() > for > example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to > do something like this: > > =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & > lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " > & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] > = " & lngEmployeeID) > > If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better > off to > open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the > entire record. > > Jim. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 10 17:17:59 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:17:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201105102218.p4AMIPDJ018580@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks Everyone, Appreciate your thoughts and feedback. cheers Darryl ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock [Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Hi Darryl Jim is right, such constructions are awful. But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in one call indeed is possible, like: =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 11 01:31:10 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:31:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: Hi John Yes, I used it in a custom app back in 2005 with excellent result. The client ceased business some years ago so I haven't any recent experience with it. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 19:03 >>> It is inexpensive. Have you used it? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/10/2011 10:56 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: > > http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp > > Example code for reading headers only: > http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18>>> > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured > out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail > account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the > user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 11 01:35:09 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:35:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Stuart That's a nice tip! Never thought of that. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 11-05-2011 00:03 >>> And combining that technique with Split() to get the fields into an array for further use can make it even more useful. -- Stuart On 10 May 2011 at 15:54, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Darryl > > Jim is right, such constructions are awful. > But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in > one call indeed is possible, like: > > =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & > [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> > Darryl, > > All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, > which can > be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. > > Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL > statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot > optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you > should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. > > As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() > for > example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to > do something like this: > > =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & > lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " > & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] > = " & lngEmployeeID) > > If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better > off to > open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the > entire record. > > Jim. From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 08:02:57 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 06:02:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 09:35:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:35:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Hi Darrell, I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 11 09:43:31 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:43:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <> No. 32/64 bit versions of Office won't mix and match at all. You can run 32 bit Office under a 64 bit OS and most are doing that. The 64 bit version of Office has had issues, most of which is a lack of anything to support it (3rd party controls, ODBC drivers, etc). Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 09:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From erbachs at gmail.com Wed May 11 09:52:07 2011 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:52:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 10:17:34 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:17:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:25:33 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:25:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even knowing it. It's the business world that is slowly making the intentional conversion. This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. The computer market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. 64 bit processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that are just allowing 32 bit OSes. I am willing to bet that the next release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hi Darrell, I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From garykjos at gmail.com Wed May 11 10:33:56 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:33:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: From: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee681792.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The recommendations for which edition of Office 2010 to install are as follows: ----> If users in your organization depend on existing extensions to Office, such as ActiveX controls, third-party add-ins, in-house solutions built on previous versions of Office, or 32-bit versions of programs that interface directly with Office, we recommend that you install 32-bit Office 2010 (the default installation) on computers that are running both 32-bit and 64-bit supported Windows operating systems. ----> If some users in your organization are Excel expert users who work with Excel spreadsheets that are larger than 2 gigabytes (GB), they can install the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. In addition, if you have in-house solution developers, we recommend that those developers have access to the 64-bit edition of Office 2010 so that they can test and update your in-house solutions on the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GK On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. ?It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. ?The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. ?64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. ?I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. ?It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 11 10:34:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:34:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <35CFAF2A4CD24CD984EBDA17A4EFD9E5@XPS> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/choose-the-32-bit-or-64-bit-vers ion-of-microsoft-office-HA010369476.aspx Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:35:42 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:35:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:43:50 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:43:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com><015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Actually, I meant to put that exact link in my post, forgot too. What's key is the first part of the first paragraph: "Processors that are 64-bit are becoming the standard for systems that range from servers to desktop computers. The 64-bit systems can use more virtual and physical memory than 32-bit systems. This lets users work with much larger data sets than they could previously, and to analyze and solve large computational problems. Microsoft Office 2010 introduces native 64-bit versions of Microsoft Office products to take advantage of this larger capacity." That first sentence is an understatement. It's been the standard for years already. I have 2010 x64 installed on my home desktop (the one I described the build and upgrade process on OT). It runs great, but other than Outlook, I haven't used it much, because that machine is more of a server then a desktop to me. I just now, a few minutes ago, popped into my home machine to take a little deeper look at what Access 2010 was like....and it's still using the Access 2007 db format, so there are no db features taking advantage of 64 bit advantages. So Access 2010 is the 21st century equivalent of Access 95. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit From: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee681792.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The recommendations for which edition of Office 2010 to install are as follows: ----> If users in your organization depend on existing extensions to Office, such as ActiveX controls, third-party add-ins, in-house solutions built on previous versions of Office, or 32-bit versions of programs that interface directly with Office, we recommend that you install 32-bit Office 2010 (the default installation) on computers that are running both 32-bit and 64-bit supported Windows operating systems. ----> If some users in your organization are Excel expert users who work with Excel spreadsheets that are larger than 2 gigabytes (GB), they can install the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. In addition, if you have in-house solution developers, we recommend that those developers have access to the 64-bit edition of Office 2010 so that they can test and update your in-house solutions on the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GK On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. ?It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. ?The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. ?64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. ?I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. ?It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 10:58:50 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:58:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! In the meantime here we are in the "Office 95" era waiting for MS to figure it out and the rest of the world to catch up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 11:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. 64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 11:00:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:00:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? Message-ID: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From kismert at gmail.com Wed May 11 11:02:35 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:02:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: I personally hate all of the Microsoft email options. I've tried CDO, CDONTS, and MAPI, and all have crippling drawbacks. I finally found a WinSock-based VBA module that sends email with no fuss: no external references are required, just hooks to kernel32 and wsock32 dlls. But even this code isn't up to my standards, so I can't recommend it as a truly robust CDO alternative. Also worth noting: fake sendmail for windows http://glob.com.au/sendmail/ It's a command-line exe that you can shell out to send emails. Also, see the "alternatives" section. -Ken -----Original Message----- > From: jwcolby > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 11:03:43 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:03:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: LOL, so true! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! In the meantime here we are in the "Office 95" era waiting for MS to figure it out and the rest of the world to catch up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 11:17:20 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:17:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed May 11 11:22:32 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:22:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000d01cc0ff7$a31f7bb0$e95e7310$@comcast.net> I've been using Outlook Evader from everthingaccess.com for several months now. It 'evades' the email security message, and provides other features. In my system I can create an option for each user to say if they want emails saved into their Sent Items folder, or not! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] POP mail automation I personally hate all of the Microsoft email options. I've tried CDO, CDONTS, and MAPI, and all have crippling drawbacks. I finally found a WinSock-based VBA module that sends email with no fuss: no external references are required, just hooks to kernel32 and wsock32 dlls. But even this code isn't up to my standards, so I can't recommend it as a truly robust CDO alternative. Also worth noting: fake sendmail for windows http://glob.com.au/sendmail/ It's a command-line exe that you can shell out to send emails. Also, see the "alternatives" section. -Ken -----Original Message----- > From: jwcolby > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 11:37:09 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:37:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 11:44:17 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:44:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install?" Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 11 12:03:34 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:03:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> Message-ID: If you don't use a shortcut and the user double clicks the app, it will try to open using the installed version of Access, not the runtime. Charlotte Foust On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Darrell Burns wrote: > ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime > install?" > > > > Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? > > --DB > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > > > Darrell, > > > > If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? > > Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you > > install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file > > under your runtime install? > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > > package and it didn't work at their place. > > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > > abandon the 32-bit version. > > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > > > Thanx, > > DB > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 12:07:01 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:07:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 12:20:50 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:20:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> Message-ID: <008001cc0fff$d3405eb0$79c11c10$@cox.net> The Access runtime is a totally separate installation of a version of Access on a computer that is independent of any version of Access or office the user may have on the computer. If you don't have a shortcut that opens your application using the runtime version your going to have the problems your seeing. We install our Access 2002 runtime on many computers having various versions of Office on them or not. Our application runs in Access 2002, not whatever version of Access the user has. We install the Access runtime. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install?" Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 12:23:28 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:23:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 12:43:52 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:43:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 12:45:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:45:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: <008d01cc1003$3ab49040$b01db0c0$@cox.net> The purpose of Microsoft providing a runtime version of Access is to allow users without Access to run your app. You can also install the runtime version of Access on a computer that already has Access installed, any version. A properly installed runtime will operate completely independently of whatever other version of Access is on the computer, thus we can run Access 2002 on any Windows computer no matter what other versions of Access are on it. In your case you don't have to uninstall the clients Office 64, just install the Access 2007 runtime. See http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=d9ae78d9-9dc6-4b 38-9fa6-2c745a175aed&displaylang=en. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Wed May 11 12:49:13 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:49:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Well we have now. :-) A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. ??? I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 13:03:26 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:03:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: <000501cc1005$b9ab8b90$2d02a2b0$@winhaven.net> Darrell, the point of my question was (not knowing how large of a customer - how many installs - this is) that if they didn't have a specific reason, maybe they'd prefer to install the 32 bit version and avoid all the hassles. In that case, you'd look like a hero. Access isn't going to be the only 64 bit problem to present itself. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 13:06:21 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:06:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 14:12:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:12:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DCADF8B.4040502@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, many non-native English speakers don't write English all that well. OTOH I don't write anything except English so who am I to complain. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 1:49 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Well we have now. :-) > > A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual > > "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" > > So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. > > ??? > > I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? > > http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 14:16:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:16:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DCAE0A7.1020605@colbyconsulting.com> This appears to be an open source attempt to do a SVN integration with Access. I didn't download it yet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 1:49 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Well we have now. :-) > > A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual > > "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" > > So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. > > ??? > > I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? > > http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 14:44:01 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:44:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 11 15:08:31 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 06:08:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: , <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net>, Message-ID: <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Imagine? I don't have to. :-) I've had Quad Integers (64bit) and Currency (64 bit - 4 decimal places) and Extended Currency( larger range, 2 decimal places) in PowerBasic for years. -- Stuart On 11 May 2011 at 10:35, Drew Wutka wrote: > What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better > than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go > beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck > with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database > version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X > controls, > etc. > > I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so > I canned it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > John, > > >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use > >> it. > > >> << > > Fascinating. Why is that? > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow > wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit > Office. Microsoft does > > > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > > 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app > > runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > > > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > > can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both > > worlds with just one version? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 15:33:19 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:33:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net>, <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Imagine? I don't have to. :-) I've had Quad Integers (64bit) and Currency (64 bit - 4 decimal places) and Extended Currency( larger range, 2 decimal places) in PowerBasic for years. -- Stuart On 11 May 2011 at 10:35, Drew Wutka wrote: > What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better > than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go > beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck > with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database > version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X > controls, > etc. > > I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so > I canned it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > John, > > >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use > >> it. > > >> << > > Fascinating. Why is that? > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow > wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit > Office. Microsoft does > > > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > > 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app > > runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > > > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > > can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both > > worlds with just one version? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 11 16:21:41 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 17:21:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001401cc1021$6c778880$45669980$@gmail.com> The next version's coding is done, they're just getting the documentation translated is what is taking so long... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? Well we have now. :-) A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. ??? I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 12 13:42:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:42:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 12 14:28:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:28:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?LSI_MegaRAID_SAS/SATA_9265-8i_6Gb/s_PC?= =?windows-1252?q?Ie_RAID_Card_Review_=96_Performance_Unleashed!_=7C_The_S?= =?windows-1252?q?SD_Review?= Message-ID: <4DCC34C3.4080302@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/lsi-megaraid-sassata-9265-8i-6gbs-pcie-raid-controller-card-review/ From bheid at sc.rr.com Thu May 12 17:24:36 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 18:24:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> Message-ID: <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 12 17:56:13 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:56:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <00d501cc10f7$cb400a00$61c01e00$@com> Hi Doug. I changed the context in my question below...I wasn't referring to runtime, so I believe Drew's answer was correct. Thanx, DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 12 18:01:00 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:01:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 12 18:54:33 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:54:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <001b01cc10ff$f15312c0$d3f93840$@cox.net> I don't really know what the advantage of the 64 bit version of Access is. It seems that there are compatibility issues if you use it. Most of the literature I have seen recommends against the 64 bit version of Office. The Access runtimes will work on 32 or 64 bit machines. The big question is how you set up the runtimes on the target machines. If you have a package that you send to clients that they run to install your app. on their computers then you need to worry about the installer. Most folks recommend going with Sagekey scripts for this approach. If you set the runtime up yourself then it should work well. There can be issues if the client has other versions of Office installed on the same machine as your runtime. This is no different than what happens if folks have two versions of Access installed on their computer. If you don't handle the startup of the application in the correct version your app. will try to open in whatever version of Access was run last. This can lead to problems. For runtimes it is recommended that you have a shortcut that causes the application to open using the runtime Access installation. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 4:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri May 13 02:39:27 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 02:39:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: The advantage is a little difficult to see right now. The best way is to jump back in time. Let's say you developed in Access 1.0 or 2.0, and let's say they came out with Access 3.0, as both a 16 bit version, and a 32 bit version. But a large amount of things didn't work with the 32 bit version. But Windows 95 was going to push things into the 32 bit direction...and it was going to spread like wild fire. The advantage of learning the quirks and ins and out of the 32 bit version was going to give you a leg up in the next few years. That is what the 64 bit version does. It allows you to get ready for a change. A change that is coming, whether we like it or not. 64 bit is here. Windows 7 is probably (and this is JUST my opinion) going to be the LAST Windows OS that is available in a 32 bit version. Right now, on a 64 bit OS, the ONLY way to run 16 bit applications is in a virtual environment. It is not going to be very long, probably less than a decade when 128 bit systems are as spread around as 64 bit systems are now. (check every machine you have purchased or worked on in the last 5 years... they are all going to be 64 bit machines, but if purchased before Windows 7, most will be running 32 bit OSes). When 128 bit processors are more dominant, and OSes move to use that structure, 32 bit applications are going to have the same problems that 16 bit applications do now.... so moving to 64 bit right now is going to get you on the wagon for the next decade. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 6:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-525 0-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 13 05:51:18 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 06:51:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 13 09:05:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 09:05:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> Message-ID: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 13 09:16:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 10:16:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Sounds like you're on the Market Research Team for Sage :) Arthur On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:05 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Jim, > I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have > something that will make it work? > > John B. > From john at winhaven.net Fri May 13 10:17:51 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 10:17:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <003101cc1180$ecf3aba0$c6db02e0$@winhaven.net> Sage has saved me from all of these types of headaches over the last 10 years. I suppose I should just look at their website and post a link each time the subject comes up ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 9:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Sounds like you're on the Market Research Team for Sage :) Arthur On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:05 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Jim, > I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have > something that will make it work? > > John B. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 13 10:35:28 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 11:35:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> They have been great at isolating Access apps in the past, so that might be possible, but I have no idea if that's the case. I think though that with the standard Office installs, a 32 bit Access runtime is going to have issues along side a 64 bit Office install. Sage/Wise scripts might give a different answer though. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat May 14 15:03:16 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 16:03:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:06:13 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:06:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <003a01cc1293$e7907bc0$b6b17340$@com> 128 bit. The first computer I worked on had 128K of offline storage and I thought that was plenty. :-0 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 12:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The advantage is a little difficult to see right now. The best way is to jump back in time. Let's say you developed in Access 1.0 or 2.0, and let's say they came out with Access 3.0, as both a 16 bit version, and a 32 bit version. But a large amount of things didn't work with the 32 bit version. But Windows 95 was going to push things into the 32 bit direction...and it was going to spread like wild fire. The advantage of learning the quirks and ins and out of the 32 bit version was going to give you a leg up in the next few years. That is what the 64 bit version does. It allows you to get ready for a change. A change that is coming, whether we like it or not. 64 bit is here. Windows 7 is probably (and this is JUST my opinion) going to be the LAST Windows OS that is available in a 32 bit version. Right now, on a 64 bit OS, the ONLY way to run 16 bit applications is in a virtual environment. It is not going to be very long, probably less than a decade when 128 bit systems are as spread around as 64 bit systems are now. (check every machine you have purchased or worked on in the last 5 years... they are all going to be 64 bit machines, but if purchased before Windows 7, most will be running 32 bit OSes). When 128 bit processors are more dominant, and OSes move to use that structure, 32 bit applications are going to have the same problems that 16 bit applications do now.... so moving to 64 bit right now is going to get you on the wagon for the next decade. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 6:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-525 0-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:13:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:13:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> Message-ID: <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> I posed this question to Sage: "Can I compile a 32-bit Access 2007 runtime and install on a 64-bit Windows machine with Office 2010 64-bit?" Answer: "Our installation package can detect if the system is 32 or 64 bit and install to the correct folder (i.e. Program Files vs. Program Files (x86)). The 32-bit runtime is installed to its own default location under c:\program files (x86)\Microsoft Office." -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 8:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit They have been great at isolating Access apps in the past, so that might be possible, but I have no idea if that's the case. I think though that with the standard Office installs, a 32 bit Access runtime is going to have issues along side a 64 bit Office install. Sage/Wise scripts might give a different answer though. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:17:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:17:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> Message-ID: <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:32:30 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:32:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> Message-ID: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat May 14 20:05:03 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:05:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 21:59:29 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 19:59:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> Sorry Bobby, but what do you mean you aren't using Access? Isn't that what we're talking about? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 6:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat May 14 23:52:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:52:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS><003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I always put the path and file name in the table and leave the pdf, doc, jpg or whatever outside the db. I found that importing even the simplest graphic into an access database bloated it way beyond the size of the file being imported . Is this what you're asking? Rocky R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun May 15 05:53:06 2011 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:53:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm totally with Rocky. Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 15 May 2011 05:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I always put the path and file name in the table and leave the pdf, doc, jpg or whatever outside the db. I found that importing even the simplest graphic into an access database bloated it way beyond the size of the file being imported . Is this what you're asking? Rocky R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 15 06:25:32 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 07:25:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 10:16:00 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:16:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not > the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the > past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it > or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB > limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; > store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset > table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want > to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's > not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I > tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that > approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple > thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 10:27:10 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 08:27:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 10:49:37 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 08:49:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com><015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net><015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net><001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com><001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com><008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net><008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com><00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS><002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net><74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS><003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com><003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Sun May 15 10:57:29 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:57:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? References: Message-ID: <9F46DF8EC30B4CECB6DC78A735795252@SusanHarkins> #2 is an option. Susan H. > Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - > a > title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the > combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in > the > table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the > user > enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the > photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will > still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places > that > opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other > set. > > Still voting for keeping them outside. > > However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be > stored > in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments > reveal. > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:38:37 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:38:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? Message-ID: I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. These queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The really odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, and it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? TIA, Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:42:38 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:42:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem Message-ID: I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 12:08:34 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:08:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have you changed version of access from the one you used to originally create this form and the sql queries in your other post? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 9:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:27:37 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:27:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes I have, from A2K3 in the first place to A2007 now, but even after the upgrade this stuff worked -- that is, until recently. I backup everything daily so I think I'll open a few of the backups and see if they exhibit the problem (they didn't when the backups were made; if they do now, then it might indicate a problem with Office 2007 rather than the db. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Have you changed version of access from the one you used to originally > create this form and the sql queries in your other post? > From ssharkins at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:36:16 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:36:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? References: Message-ID: <51E889124DC14B8DA0B487D377B93A18@SusanHarkins> Changed anything recently -- anything at all? You probably know all of the rules I've linked to though. Susan H. > I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. > These > queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm > getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The > really > odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, > and > it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. > > Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? > > TIA, > Arthur From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun May 15 12:48:40 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:48:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> Darrell, I worked with a client who had a database and was using the attachment fields type to store documents. The form with those fields was really slow, painfully slow. I was not able to prove that this field type was the problem, but suggested that we store the documents separately in a document directory. The owner of the company wanted the documents in the database and for other reasons wanted to upgrade the back end to sql server. We did this and I stored the documents in binary format in sql server and the speed went up dramatically. I can't prove that attachment fields are slow, but that is my assumption. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun May 15 13:24:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:24:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you loading the subforms JIT? Charlotte Foust On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two > containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when > I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent > either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; > other times all pages but the last one are visible. > > In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible > properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. > > I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? > > Arthur > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 15 14:29:57 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:29:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 15 14:38:32 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:38:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> Message-ID: <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> << Meaning exactly what you said.>> Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. There was nothing previously there to be compatible with. <> I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know that you can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, you get data you cannot use. <> I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not reclaimed until a compact. Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an object, which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. That no longer exists with the attachment field type. And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 16:24:32 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:24:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> <0B74CAD9C 3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> Message-ID: <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> Jim, <> Good suggestion. I'll do that. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? << Meaning exactly what you said.>> Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. There was nothing previously there to be compatible with. <> I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know that you can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, you get data you cannot use. <> I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not reclaimed until a compact. Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an object, which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. That no longer exists with the attachment field type. And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 16:56:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:56:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 17:16:34 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:16:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Message-ID: I use the following to open the file: If IsNull(Me.txtPicture) Then Exit Sub Shell "RunDLL32.EXE shell32.dll,ShellExec_RunDLL " & Me.txtPicture, vbMaximizedFocus Where Me.txtPicture contains the path and file name of the target. The file is opened by the application to which the file extension is associated. So if there's a pdf in txtPicture it opens with Reader, .doc file opens with Word, etc. I suppose you could stash the path and file name of an .mdb file and it would open in Access. Of course, if they move the file, the link is broken. I suppose I should put a FIleExists check before the Shell and give a freindly message if the file's not there. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper > around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be > deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 15 17:17:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:17:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> References: , <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS>, <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> Message-ID: <4DD050FD.32014.1FCA3D7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Another solution to Bloat is to use a split FE/BE and open you app via a cmd/batch file which copies a clean FE from a central location and then runs it. Slightly slower to open the app, but you then have your temp tables in the FE which will make then faster to use. -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 14:24, Darrell Burns wrote: > Jim, > < them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can > create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables > in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in > the temp DB.>> > > Good suggestion. I'll do that. > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > << Meaning exactly what you said.>> > > Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. > There > was nothing previously there to be compatible with. > > < Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip?>> > > I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know > that you > can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export > commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, > you get data you cannot use. > > < Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this > is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat > from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to > subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked.>> > > I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data > operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not > reclaimed until a compact. > > Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an > object, > which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. > That no longer exists with the attachment field type. > > And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access > them > via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the > temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the > current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp > DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" > Meaning exactly what you said. > Re: "... the data is compressed" > Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? > Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" > Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this > is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat > from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to > subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. > Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size > increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on > Compact/Repair to control the bloat. > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not > the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the > object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a > thing of the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it > or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the > ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; > store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be > deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 15 18:01:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:01:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: , <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com>, Message-ID: <4DD05B2D.29410.2246FDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Never seen it done that way before (wrapping the associated application in a RunDLL). I just Declare ShellExecute in a "General Functions" module: Public Declare Function ShellExecute Lib "SHELL32.DLL" Alias "ShellExecuteA" (ByVal hwnd As Long, ByVal lpOperation As String, _ ByVal lpFile As String, ByVal lpParameters As String, ByVal lpDirectory As String, ByVal nShowCmd As Long) As Long and then use: If (MaterialName > "") Then If (Dir$(BEDir() & "LibMat\" & MaterialName) > "") Then ShellExecute Application.hWndAccessApp, "Open", BEDir() _ & "LibMat\" & MaterialName, "", "", vbNormalFocus Else MsgBox MaterialName & " is missing from the LibMat directory!",,strAppTitle MaterialName = "" DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord End If End If -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 15:16, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the following to open the file: > > If IsNull(Me.txtPicture) Then Exit Sub > Shell "RunDLL32.EXE shell32.dll,ShellExec_RunDLL " & > Me.txtPicture, > vbMaximizedFocus > > Where Me.txtPicture contains the path and file name of the target. > > The file is opened by the application to which the file extension is > associated. So if there's a pdf in txtPicture it opens with Reader, > .doc file opens with Word, etc. I suppose you could stash the path > and file name of an .mdb file and it would open in Access. > > Of course, if they move the file, the link is broken. I suppose I > should put a FIleExists check before the Shell and give a freindly > message if the file's not there. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Jim & Rocky, > > What I like about the Attachment object is that: > 1. it handles multiple files; > 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since > the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are > moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed > a way to mimic that functionality through links? > > Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves > thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the > record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is > displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I > wrong? > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS > SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. > Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but > then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to > initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to > record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database > was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. > > My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the > picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do > that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive > file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of > the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in > the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you > store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db > somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of > having the one set not be the same as the other set. > > Still voting for keeping them outside. > > However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be > stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your > experiments reveal. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary > data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are > experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have > associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many > photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their > arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, > simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. > So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. > > A. > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman > wrote: > > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a > > new > > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper > > around > the object. > > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > > the past. > > > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use > > Attachments? > > > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that > > it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few > > years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table > > would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per > > client. I'll be deploying > the app as a runtime. > > > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > > > Thanx, > > DB > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 15 19:43:28 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:43:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201105160043.p4G0hbnG002073@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Arthur. Sometimes the only way I have found to fix this is to import all of the forms objects and controls into a new form. That often fixes the issue. It is usually less painful that is sounds as well. cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, 16 May 2011 2:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 15 20:43:54 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 18:43:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Message-ID: <96E9AA61353E4A7081100F4D5F994A89@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Darrell: In this particular sample it is a piece of code called everytime the user moves to a new record and the directory can be any place even an html site. ... iPhotograph = GetPictureDirectory() & lEmployeeNumber & ".jpg" If Len(Dir(iPhotograph)) = 0 Then iPhotograph = gsDefaultPhotographDir & "untitled.jpg" ... 'Then in an image object on the form, in this case named PhotoImage... PhotoImage.Picture = iPhotograph(lngEmployeeNumber) I hope this is what you are queying. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 16 02:01:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:01:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Message-ID: Hi Doug You could store the attachments in a single table in a separate database with a unique key. Then you don't need to read from the attachments' table except when you need an attachment and this will be identified with its unique key. Possible bloating will be kept in that table too. Perfect if the boss won't allow discrete attachment files. /gustav >>> dhb at flsi.com 15-05-2011 23:56 >>> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 16 02:19:24 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:19:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Message-ID: Hi Stuart It's a bit more sporty to create a separate temp database and tables from scratch with DAO. It is faster than copying a file. Initially, of course, it requires a bit more code but for people like you that's more or less a copy-n-paste experience. That said, for a POS setup - where, as you know, "everything" can happen - we use a nearly locked down Windows which doesn't much more than booting, connecting the network and printers, downloading the FE and launching this. When/if "something" happens or "doesn't work", just ask the clerk to reboot. Simple but brings peace for years! /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 16-05-2011 00:17 >>> Another solution to Bloat is to use a split FE/BE and open you app via a cmd/batch file which copies a clean FE from a central location and then runs it. Slightly slower to open the app, but you then have your temp tables in the FE which will make then faster to use. -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 14:24, Darrell Burns wrote: > Jim, > < them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can > create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables > in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in > the temp DB.>> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 06:18:19 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 07:18:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No. They all load at once. I have previously used JIT in other apps but in this one I didn't. Arthur On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you loading the subforms JIT? > > Charlotte Foust > > > From dhb at flsi.com Mon May 16 06:41:25 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 04:41:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001601cc13be$3085f0a0$9191d1e0$@com> Hi Gustav. Great idea...I'll do that. Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 12:02 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Hi Doug You could store the attachments in a single table in a separate database with a unique key. Then you don't need to read from the attachments' table except when you need an attachment and this will be identified with its unique key. Possible bloating will be kept in that table too. Perfect if the boss won't allow discrete attachment files. /gustav >>> dhb at flsi.com 15-05-2011 23:56 >>> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 16 08:29:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:29:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4DD126BD.7020405@colbyconsulting.com> And storing them in SQL Server is different from storing them in Access. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/15/2011 1:48 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Darrell, > > I worked with a client who had a database and was using the attachment > fields type to store documents. The form with those fields was really slow, > painfully slow. I was not able to prove that this field type was the > problem, but suggested that we store the documents separately in a document > directory. The owner of the company wanted the documents in the database and > for other reasons wanted to upgrade the back end to sql server. We did this > and I stored the documents in binary format in sql server and the speed went > up dramatically. > > I can't prove that attachment fields are slow, but that is my assumption. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset > table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want > to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's > not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I > tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that > approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple > thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros& cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 16 08:45:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:45:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> If you moved them from Access to SQL Server they are going to fail. You probably want to switch to a dao database (currentdb) and use db.Execute strSQL, dbSeeChanges. BTW this will allow you to use db.recordsaffected to check and/or log results of the updates. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/15/2011 12:38 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. These > queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm > getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The really > odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, and > it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. > > Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? > > TIA, > Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 08:59:54 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:59:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? In-Reply-To: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I didn't move them. I haven't changed anything. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:45 AM, jwcolby wrote: > If you moved them from Access to SQL Server they are going to fail. You > probably want to switch to a dao database (currentdb) and use db.Execute > strSQL, dbSeeChanges. BTW this will allow you to use db.recordsaffected to > check and/or log results of the updates. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon May 16 10:43:27 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:43:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for you. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:18 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > No. They all load at once. I have previously used JIT in other apps but in > this one I didn't. > > Arthur > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > >> Are you loading the subforms JIT? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 10:48:13 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:48:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes > sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens > faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste > time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the > other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for > you. > > Charlotte Foust > > From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 16 15:31:29 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:31:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue Message-ID: I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From bheid at sc.rr.com Mon May 16 16:11:47 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:11:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> Message-ID: <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> I am using .Net (ASP.Net/VB.Net) to read Excel files. The 2010 Access runtime (which is what I thought we were talking about) has the OLEDB drivers that I am using to do this and the runtime comes in comes both 32 and 64-bit versions. That is what I was originally pointing out. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 10:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Sorry Bobby, but what do you mean you aren't using Access? Isn't that what we're talking about? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 6:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 16 16:29:06 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 14:29:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A523A43088A40789ADAD01D2D9A367F@HAL9005> Yeah, tab forms and subforms sometimes don't resize right with the ADH code - although I've never found anything better. On tab and subform forms I'll set up variables for the size and location - sub-forms only seem to need height adjusted: Dim sglSubFormHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesTop As Single Dim sglTabPagesWidth As Single Dim sglTabPagesLeft As Single I modified the resizing code to put the x and y resizing factors into global variable gsglFactorX and gsglFactorY. Then in the open event where I'm doing the resizing I save the values of those properties, resize, and then force the sizes of those objects : sglSubFormHeight = Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height sglTabPagesHeight = Me.TabPages.Height sglTabPagesTop = Me.TabPages.Top sglTabPagesWidth = Me.TabPages.Width sglTabPagesLeft = Me.TabPages.Left Application.Echo False Call adhScaleForm(Me, 800, 600, 96, 96, rctOriginal) If DLookup("TurnScreenResizingOff", "tblPreferences") = False Then Me.TabPages.Height = sglTabPagesHeight * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Top = sglTabPagesTop * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Width = sglTabPagesWidth * gsglFactorX Me.TabPages.Left = sglTabPagesLeft * gsglFactorX Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height = sglSubFormHeight * gsglFactorY End If HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 1:31 PM To: Access Developers Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 16 16:35:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <5A523A43088A40789ADAD01D2D9A367F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <3115EEDDD3ED48DDAC8AF91549FFD75A@Dell> Thanks -- that's a lot of help. I'll give it a try. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Yeah, tab forms and subforms sometimes don't resize right with the ADH code - although I've never found anything better. On tab and subform forms I'll set up variables for the size and location - sub-forms only seem to need height adjusted: Dim sglSubFormHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesTop As Single Dim sglTabPagesWidth As Single Dim sglTabPagesLeft As Single I modified the resizing code to put the x and y resizing factors into global variable gsglFactorX and gsglFactorY. Then in the open event where I'm doing the resizing I save the values of those properties, resize, and then force the sizes of those objects : sglSubFormHeight = Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height sglTabPagesHeight = Me.TabPages.Height sglTabPagesTop = Me.TabPages.Top sglTabPagesWidth = Me.TabPages.Width sglTabPagesLeft = Me.TabPages.Left Application.Echo False Call adhScaleForm(Me, 800, 600, 96, 96, rctOriginal) If DLookup("TurnScreenResizingOff", "tblPreferences") = False Then Me.TabPages.Height = sglTabPagesHeight * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Top = sglTabPagesTop * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Width = sglTabPagesWidth * gsglFactorX Me.TabPages.Left = sglTabPagesLeft * gsglFactorX Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height = sglSubFormHeight * gsglFactorY End If HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 1:31 PM To: Access Developers Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at airtelmail.in Mon May 16 23:29:53 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 09:59:53 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: Message-ID: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From cjlabs at att.net Tue May 17 11:01:26 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:01:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> Message-ID: <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 17 14:56:09 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:56:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> References: , <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede>, <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. The query that I wish to union appears: SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: cjlabs at att.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:01:26 -0500 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. > > Now to change all the rest of them. . . . > > > Thanks, > Carolyn Johnson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: A.D. Tejpal > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > > Carolyn, > > Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: > http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 > > Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). > > Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: > (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. > (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. > (c) Combo box and list box. > (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. > (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. > (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. > > Note: > ------ > (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. > (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. > > Best wishes, > A.D. Tejpal > ------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: cjlabs > To: Access Developers > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 > Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > > I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. > > I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. > > If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). > > I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. > > Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? > > TIA > Carolyn Johnson > St Louis MO > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 15:13:58 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:13:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> Message-ID: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue May 17 15:34:28 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:34:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com><002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <04AAC98C730C47279120E563898AB16C@HAL9005> What kind of control? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 16:11:18 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:11:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <000901cc14d6$f71076f0$e53164d0$@cox.net> How about the "On Dbl Click" event for the control? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 17 16:18:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:18:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <4DD2E62D.3000402@colbyconsulting.com> Double click on the control? ;) Or call the doubleclick function from code in the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 4:13 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 16:37:10 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:37:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to make the subroutine public. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 17 16:40:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:40:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue May 17 16:56:59 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 07:56:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <000001cc14dd$59c28530$0d478f90$@activebilling.com.au> Hi Darrell Assume you have a text box called txtLastName on a form called frmEmployees. Assume on that form is a routine that displays a message box on the double click of that field. Private Sub txtLastName_DblClick (Cancel As Integer) MsgBox "Hi this is the Last Name text box from the employees form", vbInformation, "Last Name DoubleClick" End Sub Ok - Cool - Assume you have a command button (called Command2) on the same form and you want the double click of the LastName text box to 'fire' when the button is clicked, do something like this... Private Sub Command2_Click() txtLastName_DblClick -1 End Sub (the minus one bit above is to satisfy the "Cancel as integer" param on the DoubleClick routine) Now...if you want the double click routine on the Lastname field to be 'fired' from a button called 'Command1' on another form you could do this... First change the status of the Private Sub routine on the LastName double click into a Public Sub - like this... Public Sub txtLastName_DblClick(Cancel As Integer) ''<--note it is public sub now MsgBox "Hi this is the Last Name text box", vbInformation, "Last Name DoubleClick" End Sub Private Sub Command1_Click()''<---not this should be on a totally different form Forms("frmEmployeesform1").txtLastName_DblClick -1 End Sub There probably are better ways of handling this and the gurus here will suggest them. This has worked for me a zillion times. Now, having said all that if the information in this control that is to be double clicked is being 'fired' or called from another place you may want to give somethought to moving the doubleclick code/logic into a more public place, like in a module etc. Hope it makes sense - See ya Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 6:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 17:24:08 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 15:24:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001a01cc14e1$23d8a720$6b89f560$@cox.net> Maybe my terminology is incorrect. I was referring to the subroutine created for the event, you can make that public, or at least remove the Private designation. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger > from code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in > the event stub and then call it from where ever you want by the > subroutine name, e.g., sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from > outside the form you need to make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 19:55:07 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:55:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <00f301cc14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> Thanx to everybody for replying. I'm just responding to the most recent post. I have an Attachment control on a form. The control is named Asset_Attachment. I want the built-in Attachment dialog box to spring open as soon as I open the form. The only way I know to make that dialog appear is by dbl-clicking Asset_Attachment. I tried inserting Asset_Attachment_DblClick (-1) in the Form_Open event but I got a "Sub or function not defined" compile error. Is there a way to send those mouse-clicks to the control? Thx, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 20:16:17 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 18:16:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00f301cc14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> <00f301c c14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> Message-ID: <00f701cc14f9$30c01a50$92404ef0$@com> Doh! I figured it out...didn't need to double-click. All I needed to do was send a space key... DoCmd.GoToControl "Asset_Attachment" SendKeys " " Thanx! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 5:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Thanx to everybody for replying. I'm just responding to the most recent post. I have an Attachment control on a form. The control is named Asset_Attachment. I want the built-in Attachment dialog box to spring open as soon as I open the form. The only way I know to make that dialog appear is by dbl-clicking Asset_Attachment. I tried inserting Asset_Attachment_DblClick (-1) in the Form_Open event but I got a "Sub or function not defined" compile error. Is there a way to send those mouse-clicks to the control? Thx, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at airtelmail.in Tue May 17 23:08:53 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:38:53 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: You are most welcome Carolyn! Nice of you to provide the confirmation regarding successful outcome. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 21:31 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 17 23:48:08 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:48:08 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. Message-ID: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Everyone, If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but I am not that hopeful :-/ If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. cheers Darryl. _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 18 00:14:51 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 15:14:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The triumph of form over function yet again. MS would much rather have it "look pretty" than "be practical". As far as I know, you're stuck with it. -- Stuart On 18 May 2011 at 14:48, Darryl Collins wrote: > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde > world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane > and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details > were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and > useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several > lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor > I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make > the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the > nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make > a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched > up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - > STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB > objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. > Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such > a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they > want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the > instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but > I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 > levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > ______________________________________________________________________ From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 18 00:48:35 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 22:48:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Darryl, Your mantra should be, "Designed for end users who don't understand what they need." Keep repeating it until numbness sets in! Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > Hi Everyone, > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. ?In ye olde world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane and this was fine. ?The DB object icons were small and the details were displayed on a single line per object. ?Nice and tight and useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. ?I figure that streeeeeeching the nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - STUPID! ?I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. ?Sheesh. ?Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? ?I find it such a backward step in productivity. ?Sure let folks dock the pane if they want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) ?urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed May 18 00:49:19 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 15:49:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com>, <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105180551.p4I5pBev004265@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha, yeah, it seems like it. "form over function" for sure. I used to be able to sort by mod date with a single click. Now it is a lot of stuffing around with the mouse and scrolling thru pages of db objects because you can only view a handful at a time. What a right PITA. Productivity just went 'plurk!' ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan [stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. The triumph of form over function yet again. MS would much rather have it "look pretty" than "be practical". As far as I know, you're stuck with it. -- Stuart On 18 May 2011 at 14:48, Darryl Collins wrote: > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde > world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane > and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details > were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and > useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several > lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor > I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make > the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the > nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make > a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched > up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - > STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB > objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. > Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such > a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they > want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the > instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but > I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 > levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > ______________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 18 02:39:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:39:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names Message-ID: Hi J?rgen Weird. Try adding DISTINCT: SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. /gustav >>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. The query that I wish to union appears: SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From cjlabs at att.net Wed May 18 06:59:41 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 06:59:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede><854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: In case it's of interest, I have/had 2 forms with issues. I have a option group with a label attached to the frame -- that label's font size is too large and it's location is too far right (to the right instead of left of the frame). I deleted the label and created a new one that was not associated with the frame, and it's OK. I have another form with 2 subforms, that are both datasheet view. The 2 subforms' font size is increased, but the row height is not, so you cannot read the text. You can, however, manually increase the row height. The other 35 forms in the database that use resizing work great. I disabled the double click code. I have a main form switchboard (that actually has several levels of hierarchy) and double-clicking the screen activates the button handler. Thanks again, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue You are most welcome Carolyn! Nice of you to provide the confirmation regarding successful outcome. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 21:31 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 07:13:37 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 08:13:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 07:45:49 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 08:45:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Shortcut for VBE Message-ID: Does anyone know of a shortcut key for displaying the Object or Procedure controls' dropdown lists? Thanks! Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 08:35:52 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:35:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Nevermind (Fw: Shortcut for VBE) Message-ID: <7996DAF5FF0B41CF846423D57014AAD6@SusanHarkins> It's Ctrl+F2 Does anyone know of a shortcut key for displaying the Object or Procedure controls' dropdown lists? Thanks! Susan H. From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed May 18 08:58:51 2011 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:58:51 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT position available Message-ID: Hello All, A former co-worker reached out to me about a position they were trying to fill. Since I am happy in my current position (and don't want to go to Chicago) I thought I would pass this on to the list in case anyone is looking. Thanks, Mark A. Matte. P.S...if interested you can contact Tina (Tina.Biancalana at searshc.com) \******************************** Job Title Sr. Analyst, IM Systems & Support ? Reporting Business Corporate - Supply Chain State or Province/City IL Hoffman Estates Company Sears Holdings Management Corp Years Experience: 2 - 5 Years Experience Preferred Minimum Education: BS required. CS or MIS degree desired. Travel Requirements: None Requisition ID 94304BR To view full job description, please search Careerbuilder.com for requisition ID 94304BR or Sears Holdings. Minimum requirements: Software: SQL Server, Teradata, Access, Excel Programming Languages: SQL, VB From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 18 11:16:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, that could be the problem. Charlotte Foust On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi J?rgen > > Weird. > Try adding DISTINCT: > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. ?For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. ?Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. ?Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. ?Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. ?The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > I have 31 alias names in the table. ?28 of them work. ?3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > If I add a column to the select statement: ?[LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. ?If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. ?We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. ?The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. ?I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. ?There are no names with apostrophes. ?Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. ?It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. ?If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed May 18 13:07:02 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:07:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed May 18 13:29:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 11:29:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limitedbudget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com><003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <407B5AC805FE4FE6922DE5953EDC7991@HAL9005> Brad: Check out www.e-z-mrp.com. Might be exactly what you need. It's in Access 2003. If interested, call me and we'll talk. Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limitedbudget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed May 18 13:34:28 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:34:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 18 15:13:26 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the last name field to the query as an additional column displays the last name. There are records in the main table associated with the alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or the full proper name). SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID yeilds 12 Brad Card Card Brad 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim 2344 Rick Mackie Rick 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name first mode. Gustav: Distinct did not work. I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where none should be required. I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: ?1=1 ?2=2 ?3=3 ?4=4 One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to determine whether they continue to fail. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, > that could be the problem. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi J?rgen > > > > Weird. > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed May 18 18:57:33 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:57:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From adtp at airtelmail.in Wed May 18 22:34:35 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:04:35 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede><854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: <36E8B29C8A0D42B5BA4560C6BD73D2F9@personal4a8ede> Carolyn, Existing version of form resize class has certain arbitrary upper & lower limits on datasheet row height. If you are in a position to put together a skeleton db containing the two problem forms along with their associated objects, I could look into it further - so as to ascertain whether further fine tuning of the class is called for. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 17:29 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue In case it's of interest, I have/had 2 forms with issues. I have a option group with a label attached to the frame -- that label's font size is too large and it's location is too far right (to the right instead of left of the frame). I deleted the label and created a new one that was not associated with the frame, and it's OK. I have another form with 2 subforms, that are both datasheet view. The 2 subforms' font size is increased, but the row height is not, so you cannot read the text. You can, however, manually increase the row height. The other 35 forms in the database that use resizing work great. I disabled the double click code. I have a main form switchboard (that actually has several levels of hierarchy) and double-clicking the screen activates the button handler. Thanks again, Carolyn From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed May 18 23:34:10 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 21:34:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu May 19 06:51:41 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 06:51:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> Message-ID: <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu May 19 07:50:26 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 05:50:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Ah, programmer's full employment act of 2011. Nice. :) I'm at the other end - companies in the startup to $20,000,000 range - what I call the bottom 90% of the market - or independent subsidiaries or internal projects of larger companies. Intel uses E-Z-MRP at their facility up in Oregon for example. And Philips Medical has a captive supplier in China using it as part of their supply chain management system. Just fishing for some possibilities of working together. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu May 19 08:00:16 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 08:00:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> Try taking a look at www.enterpriseminnesota.org. They are a consulting group focused on helping small MN Manufacturing companies grow, and at least some of their clients are in your size range. I subscribe to their free magazine sort of with the intent to find potential customers, but the companies that are discussed are all too small to be interested in me. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Ah, programmer's full employment act of 2011. Nice. :) I'm at the other end - companies in the startup to $20,000,000 range - what I call the bottom 90% of the market - or independent subsidiaries or internal projects of larger companies. Intel uses E-Z-MRP at their facility up in Oregon for example. And Philips Medical has a captive supplier in China using it as part of their supply chain management system. Just fishing for some possibilities of working together. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 19 10:57:30 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 11:57:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@! comcast.net> <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 19 12:03:22 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:03:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> References: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000801cc1646$a987e8c0$fc97ba40$@com> Hi Darryl, I feel your pain about the Nav window. It sux! Every time I open up a database I have to reset it to show last-to-first Mod Date sequence. Why can't it remember something as basic as that? Is there room on your soapbox for one more? Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu May 19 11:54:52 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:54:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names - Solved In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: When in table view, I tabbed into the FirstNameAlias field and replaced Rob with Rob and found that the query now included the last name as expected. I just about broke my head on this one. It turns out that the textbox where alias names are entered has the property for 'Enter Key Behavior' set to 'New Line in Field'. In the case of the three names that did not display, the data had been entered in two rows. Thus Rob had actually been entered as 'Rob' & vbcrlf & 'Rob'. Apparently this forced the query to display the last name field in the 2nd row and the query defalut display height is one row only. Changing the row height in the query view showed the last names in the 2nd row. Trim$ is used for the not in list procedure by which names are entered in the tables but allowing the enter key to add new rows in the alias sub form messed things up when users entered text both before and after an enter key. Needless to say I changed the Enter Key Behavior of the Alias Name text box and checked the rest of the data. All I needed to do is change the row height in the alias table view in order to see the problem records and I'm satisfied that everything now works as it should. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: jwelz at hotmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the last name field to the query as an additional column displays the last name. There are records in the main table associated with the alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or the full proper name). > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > yeilds > > 12 Brad Card Card Brad > 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim > 2344 Rick Mackie Rick > 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob > 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron > 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch > 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob > > I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. > > What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name first mode. > > Gustav: Distinct did not work. > > I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where none should be required. > > I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. > > It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: > > ?1=1 > ?2=2 > ?3=3 > ?4=4 > > One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. > > At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to determine whether they continue to fail. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, > > that could be the problem. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi J?rgen > > > > > > Weird. > > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > > > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > > > Ciao > > > J?rgen Welz > > > Edmonton, Alberta > > > jwelz at hotmail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 19 15:56:59 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 06:56:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names - Solved In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DD5841B.12075.164C5AC1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've been bitten by a CRLF at the start of a text field a few times over the years as well. It's a b*tch, ain't it :-) -- Stuart On 19 May 2011 at 10:54, Jurgen Welz wrote: > > When in table view, I tabbed into the FirstNameAlias field and > replaced Rob with Rob and found that the query now included the last > name as expected. I just about broke my head on this one. > > It turns out that the textbox where alias names are entered has the > property for 'Enter Key Behavior' set to 'New Line in Field'. In the > case of the three names that did not display, the data had been > entered in two rows. Thus Rob had actually been entered as 'Rob' & > vbcrlf & 'Rob'. Apparently this forced the query to display the last > name field in the 2nd row and the query defalut display height is one > row only. Changing the row height in the query view showed the last > names in the 2nd row. Trim$ is used for the not in list procedure by > which names are entered in the tables but allowing the enter key to > add new rows in the alias sub form messed things up when users entered > text both before and after an enter key. > > Needless to say I changed the Enter Key Behavior of the Alias Name > text box and checked the rest of the data. All I needed to do is > change the row height in the alias table view in order to see the > problem records and I'm satisfied that everything now works as it > should. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > From: jwelz at hotmail.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > > > Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the > > concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the > > last name field to the query as an additional column displays the > > last name. There are records in the main table associated with the > > alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. > > The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated > > query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The > > oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display > > the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the > > search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select > > tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & > > tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is > > missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the > > first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where > > the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the > > concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd > > is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to > > appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a > > length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the > > contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or > > the full proper name). > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' > > & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & > > [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 FROM tblEmployeeAlias > > INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = > > tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > yeilds > > > > 12 Brad Card Card Brad > > 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim > > 2344 Rick Mackie Rick > > 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob > > 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron > > 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch > > 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob > > > > I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison > > operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first > > or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display > > the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. > > > > What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first > > and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In > > the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. > > These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee > > to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display > > regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show > > them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first > > name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently > > work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma > > with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color > > to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name > > first mode. > > > > Gustav: Distinct did not work. > > > > I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and > > storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would > > simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would > > require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits > > to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names > > and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so > > I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where > > none should be required. > > > > I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' > > tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L > > = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger > > = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent > > behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. > > > > It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate > > window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: > > > > ?1=1 > > ?2=2 > > ?3=3 > > ?4=4 > > > > One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC > > connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. > > > > At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the > > data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try > > adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to > > determine whether they continue to fail. > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > > > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If > > > not, that could be the problem. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock > > > wrote: > > > > Hi J?rgen > > > > > > > > Weird. > > > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record > > > > by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be > > > > some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose > > > > payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look > > > > up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or > > > > Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo > > > > record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and > > > > Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form > > > > on the main form record. > > > > > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary > > > > key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to > > > > the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup > > > > combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & > > > > LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & > > > > ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or > > > > both records as well as regional filters. > > > > > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & > > > > ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias > > > > INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = > > > > tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in > > > > that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & > > > > [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. > > > > If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it > > > > appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null > > > > data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias > > > > names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are > > > > Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the > > > > concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record > > > > last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display > > > > concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled > > > > why some work and some don't. There are no names with > > > > apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual > > > > name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no > > > > difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the > > > > order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > > > > > Ciao > > > > J?rgen Welz > > > > Edmonton, Alberta > > > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Thu May 19 16:54:12 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:54:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> References: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <010c01cc166f$4b2245e0$e166d1a0$@activebilling.com.au> It's always time for coffee - with A2010 It's time for an IV Re the new layouts (Ribbons etc.) I watched all the disparaging comments from the world on the next forums etc. (and here too). Now I have office 2010 (outlook included) OMG What a PITA DD -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2011 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rlister at actuarial-files.com Thu May 19 18:48:45 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:48:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@! comcast.net> <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <000d01cc167f$4ca65a90$e5f30fb0$@com> Hello John, I have this code snippet, may be it helps: Function AgeInMonths(End As Date, Begin As Date) As Integer '************************************************************ '************************************************************ '** Name of Procedure: AgeInMonths ** '** Date: January 2011 ** '** Called from: various in modReservas, modReservasInv ** '** Calls: none ** '** Task: Calculates the age of a person in month ** '** Input: End, Begin (Both Date) ** '** Output: Integer ** '** Example: AgeInMonths(#30/4/2011#,#25/11/2009#) = 17 ** '************************************************************ '************************************************************ Dim xM As Integer If Day(End) < Day(Begin) Then xM = (Year(End) - Year(Begin)) * 12 + _ Month(End) - Month(Begin) - 1 Else xM = (Year(End) - Year(Begin)) * 12 + _ Month(End) - Month(Begin) End If AgeInMonths = xM End Function Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com -----Mensaje original----- De: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] En nombre de John Clark Enviado el: Jueves, 19 de Mayo de 2011 11:58 a.m. Para: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Asunto: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3647 - Release Date: 05/19/11 From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu May 19 23:15:50 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 14:15:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... Message-ID: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi everyone, A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following error "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall it" Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this problem. Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. bah. annoying. cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Fri May 20 00:03:00 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 22:03:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <3CDA3DC698A44A85A6DF9BD21E3D6632@BPCS> Darryl, I had a similar problem, not sure if it applies to but in my case it had to do trying to open a JPG. The cure was to right click on any jpg and and make sure that paint was the default. My program used paint to display photo's. Like you it only affected those PC's that had the default JPG set to something else or perhaps not set at all. The same thing might apply if you are using something other than photos like say notepad for .txt etc. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Collins" Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 9:15 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi everyone, A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following error "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall it" Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this problem. Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. bah. annoying. cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 20 01:15:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:15:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DD6071C.19653.184C1D20@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It often occurs when you have a OLE object field in your database with various images, documents etc embedded and the program that is set as the default for that type of file is not the same as the one used on the PC that saved the object. -- Stuart On 20 May 2011 at 14:15, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi everyone, > > A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following > error > > "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall > it" > > Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none > of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known > issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb > / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This > sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, > but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of > calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. > > On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this > problem. > > Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking > running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. > > bah. annoying. > > cheers > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Fri May 20 01:33:00 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:33:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <4DD6071C.19653.184C1D20@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105200633.p4K6X8sb028504@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Ok guys, Going to try that out with this user and see what happens. Will post back with results. I have repointed the single graphic used to point at MS Paint and reinstalled it. thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, 20 May 2011 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... It often occurs when you have a OLE object field in your database with various images, documents etc embedded and the program that is set as the default for that type of file is not the same as the one used on the PC that saved the object. -- Stuart On 20 May 2011 at 14:15, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi everyone, > > A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following > error > > "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall > it" > > Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none > of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known > issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb > / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This > sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, > but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of > calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. > > On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this > problem. > > Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking > running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. > > bah. annoying. > > cheers > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri May 20 06:47:42 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:47:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of Message-ID: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Hi, Working on a database application where the client wants what she refers to as primary and secondary drop-downs. The description is of a drop-list wherein two of the items have secondary drop-lists. This is to be able to select specific reports to print. So, one report, called "Post It" would have a second selection criterion of which counselor the report is for. To me, this sounds like a cascading menu - commonly found in the Microsoft Office Suite programs - but I don't know how to construct that in Access. Perhaps the Treeview approach is a good option. I'd love a little feedback on how to meet this client's need. Thanks, Tina From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 20 08:27:08 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 15:27:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! Message-ID: Hi John Here is how: Public Function Months( _ ByVal datDate1 As Date, _ ByVal datDate2 As Date, _ Optional ByVal booLinear As Boolean) _ As Integer ' Returns the difference in full months between datDate1 and datDate2. ' ' Calculates correctly for: ' negative differences ' leap years ' dates of 29. February ' date/time values with embedded time values ' negative date/time values (prior to 1899-12-29) ' ' Optionally returns negative counts rounded down to provide a ' linear sequence of month counts. ' For a given datDate1, if datDate2 is decreased stepwise one month from ' returning a positive count to returning a negative count, one or two ' occurrences of count zero will be returned. ' If booLinear is False, the sequence will be: ' 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, -1, -2 ' If booLinear is True, the sequence will be: ' 3, 2, 1, 0, -1, -2, -3 ' ' If booLinear is False, reversing datDate1 and datDate2 will return ' results of same absolute Value, only the sign will change. ' This behaviour mimics that of Fix(). ' If booLinear is True, reversing datDate1 and datDate2 will return ' results where the negative count is offset by -1. ' This behaviour mimics that of Int(). ' DateAdd() is used for check for month end of February as it correctly ' returns Feb. 28. when adding a count of months to dates of Feb. 29. ' when the resulting year is a common year. ' ' 2010-03-30. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim intDiff As Integer Dim intSign As Integer Dim intMonths As Integer ' Find difference in calendar months. intMonths = DateDiff("m", datDate1, datDate2) ' For positive resp. negative intervals, check if the second date ' falls before, on, or after the crossing date for a 1 month period ' while at the same time correcting for February 29. of leap years. If DateDiff("d", datDate1, datDate2) > 0 Then intSign = Sgn(DateDiff("d", DateAdd("m", intMonths, datDate1), datDate2)) intDiff = Abs(intSign < 0) Else intSign = Sgn(DateDiff("d", DateAdd("m", -intMonths, datDate2), datDate1)) If intSign <> 0 Then ' Offset negative count of months to continuous sequence if requested. intDiff = Abs(booLinear) End If intDiff = intDiff - Abs(intSign < 0) End If ' Return count of months as count of full 1 month periods. Months = intMonths - intDiff End Function To have the years and months count: intMonths = Months([DOB], Date) strYearsMonths = CStr(intMonths \ 12) & " year(s), " & CStr(intMonths Mod 12) & " month(s)" /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 19-05-2011 17:57 >>> I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 20 09:05:50 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:05:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of In-Reply-To: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> References: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Message-ID: The common approach to this is related combo or listboxes; however, in your case the lists seem unrelated (unless of course only certain users have access to certain reports, but in that case you're missing a table and the lists are in the wrong order). I'd go with a simple dialog box containing two controls, one for reports and one for users. HTH, A. From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri May 20 10:19:15 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:19:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Message-ID: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 10:25:29 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:25:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I've sent out over 300 separate emails that were created by Access in a batch and put in my Outbox, then sent manually by me. Customized emails with the same subject line. No problems. The only limits I've dealt with are imposed by email providers, who try to prevent spammers by limiting you to 50 emails in a 2 hour window and 200 a day. AT&T does that. Charter.net does that. It's not Access or Outlook. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 20 10:35:00 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:35:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <7D67105591864E8E9964755F9763F2CB@XPS> Yes, there are no real limits as far as the client is concerned. It's the ISP and its spam detection limits that are at work when you send e-mail and each is different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question I've sent out over 300 separate emails that were created by Access in a batch and put in my Outbox, then sent manually by me. Customized emails with the same subject line. No problems. The only limits I've dealt with are imposed by email providers, who try to prevent spammers by limiting you to 50 emails in a 2 hour window and 200 a day. AT&T does that. Charter.net does that. It's not Access or Outlook. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 11:09:58 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:09:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> I've run into this problem with a program I wrote to contact people for events, etc. Outlook does not have a limit but Exchange can, ISPs can and filtering devices/add-ins can (like SPAM filters). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri May 20 11:38:05 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:38:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. > I've run into this problem with a program I wrote to contact people for > events, etc. Outlook does not have a limit but Exchange can, ISPs can and > filtering devices/add-ins can (like SPAM filters). From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 20 11:50:44 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:50:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD663A40200006B0001FAA2@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> A huge THANK YOU Gustav!!! I was drawing a blank...I just can't concentrate these days. It could be because I do net admin one day, work on switches the next, then get into the VOIP stuff, then try to learn SharePoint (I hate SharePoint so far...well, WSS anyhow)...it is just hard for me to turn programming on and off like that. But, I appreciate your help very much...you saved me a bunch. John W Clark >>> "Gustav Brock" 5/20/2011 9:27 A >>> Hi John Here is how: From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 12:57:37 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:57:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 20 13:10:51 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:10:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I've been automating task items set with people to remind with due date and reminder times and Outlook barfs some message about allowing macros to access your address book create items for 1, 2, 5 or 10 minutes. Thats a very real limit by time. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: ssharkins at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:19:15 -0400 > Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question > > 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? > > ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? > > > > Susan H. From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 20 15:44:30 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:44:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of In-Reply-To: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> References: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Message-ID: Tina, I just saw this now. I don't know if you've solved the issue, but there are excellent free, video tutorials on cascading combos here. http://www.datapigtechnologies.com/flashfiles/combobox1.html http://www.datapigtechnologies.com/flashfiles/combobox2.html Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of Hi, Working on a database application where the client wants what she refers to as primary and secondary drop-downs. The description is of a drop-list wherein two of the items have secondary drop-lists. This is to be able to select specific reports to print. So, one report, called "Post It" would have a second selection criterion of which counselor the report is for. To me, this sounds like a cascading menu - commonly found in the Microsoft Office Suite programs - but I don't know how to construct that in Access. Perhaps the Treeview approach is a good option. I'd love a little feedback on how to meet this client's need. Thanks, Tina -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri May 20 15:49:58 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:49:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 20 16:07:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:07:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DD6D818.1495.1B7C80B3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've never come across a hard limit in a mail client. The most likely cause of an apparent freeze would be long delays in the time it takes for the SMTP server to deal with a large list of addresses and respond to the email client. The client could appear to hang while waiting for the resoponse. The primary limit will generally be the rules implemented by the SMTP server you are sending through. Often ISPs set their public servers' limits at 50 - 100. Exchange Server has a parameter msExchSmtpMaxRecipients which can be set by administrators. MS in their wisdom set it by default to 64,000 ! On 20 May 2011 at 11:19, Susan Harkins wrote: > 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can > be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read > different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be > done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook > will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it > differ? > > ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit > at all? > > > > Susan H. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 17:54:35 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:54:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 18:05:36 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:05:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: The ISPs blacklist others from time to teim. AOL has blacklisted AT&T several times because they were getting so much spam from AT&T accounts. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bartow To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 18:25:27 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:25:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <00ba01cc1745$33d57070$9b805150$@winhaven.net> AT&T drives me nuts. They have you jump through all kinds of verifications routines and extra security, etc. but they haven't affected the SPAM at all. Sometimes I think they just have a sadistic CIO who likes to punish his clients. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 6:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question The ISPs blacklist others from time to teim. AOL has blacklisted AT&T several times because they were getting so much spam from AT&T accounts. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bartow To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri May 20 19:06:12 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:06:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: It happened to pundit last year - Cox blacklisted her so she couldn't send any mail to a Cox account. It was hell to straighten out - our ISP TW said it was Cox and of course you know what Cox said. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 19:29:08 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 19:29:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] accelerator keys not working in Access2010 Message-ID: I'm trying to fix all the stuff that worked in my database in 2000, 2002 and 2003 but no longer work in 2010. I have a lot of accelerator keys on my forms (Alt + ) which no longer work in Access 2010. Does anyone know if there is a way to make them functional? TIA, Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 20 21:51:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 22:51:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM Message-ID: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible a workstation running out on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM running but it was part of my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able to access it remote desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is using stored info and assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can from my internal network. I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel through the firewall. Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 07:41:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 08:41:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Message-ID: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat May 21 08:31:44 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 06:31:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John: I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 Set dbs = CurrentDb On Error GoTo Change_Err dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue ChangeProperty = True Change_Bye: Exit Function Change_Err: If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ varPropType, varPropValue) dbs.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else ' Unknown error. ChangeProperty = False Resume Change_Bye End If End Function I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than through my own menus: ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde") <> 0 Then Me.MenuBar = "=1" Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open End If Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 21 09:52:55 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 16:52:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Message-ID: Hi John Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): >>>1999-05-18 08:15 Subject: My FramwWIZ 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties of the current database or any database (depending on button pushed). The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all the built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) and into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen because it really should be a check box) to allow you to select the state you wish to set the property to (set or reset). There is then a button that you can press to save any changes to the properties back into the database. These properties allow the developer to "secure" the operation of the database to prevent fiddling by the user. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41 >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 11:49:30 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:49:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> Gustav, > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): LOL. Yea I went out and found that. This is the basis (as is the code from the other posters) but I really want an application that sets the properties and then copies from / to. My application allows you to open an Access FE, navigate to another Access FE and set the properties there. It is an entire user interface around this code. I am going to be modifying my app (designed in 10/2001 BTW) to add this additional functionality. I am going to need it table driven so that I can select a group of files, set the properties and copy all of the files to production. As you know I also have two libraries to secure. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 10:52 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): > >>>> 1999-05-18 08:15 > Subject: My FramwWIZ > > 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) > is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties of the > current database or any database (depending on button pushed). > > The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all the > built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, > StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, > AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. > > These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) and > into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen because it > really should be a check box) to allow you to select the state you wish to > set the property to (set or reset). There is then a button that you can > press to save any changes to the properties back into the database. These > properties allow the developer to "secure" the operation of the database to > prevent fiddling by the user. > > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41>>> > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want > to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as > Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat May 21 12:19:54 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:19:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000c01cc17db$4d8a7ce0$e89f76a0$@comcast.net> John, You could try this technique - you can work another FE from your FE. However, the properties you are changing don't take effect until the next time the mdb file opened. So a test is needed to see if this actually works the next time the other FE is opened. '-- Set Destination MDB as the CurrentDatabase Set MappDestination = New Access.Application MappDestination.OpenCurrentDatabase MstgDestinationFilePath DoEvents Post back your results! I use these properties also for each of my customer's systems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 11:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Gustav, > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): LOL. Yea I went out and found that. This is the basis (as is the code from the other posters) but I really want an application that sets the properties and then copies from / to. My application allows you to open an Access FE, navigate to another Access FE and set the properties there. It is an entire user interface around this code. I am going to be modifying my app (designed in 10/2001 BTW) to add this additional functionality. I am going to need it table driven so that I can select a group of files, set the properties and copy all of the files to production. As you know I also have two libraries to secure. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 10:52 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): > >>>> 1999-05-18 08:15 > Subject: My FramwWIZ > > 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) > is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties > of the current database or any database (depending on button pushed). > > The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all > the built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, > StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, > AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. > > These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) > and into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen > because it really should be a check box) to allow you to select the > state you wish to set the property to (set or reset). There is then a > button that you can press to save any changes to the properties back > into the database. These properties allow the developer to "secure" > the operation of the database to prevent fiddling by the user. > > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41>>> > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jedi at charm.net Sat May 21 12:33:50 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM In-Reply-To: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4373.24.35.19.37.1305999230.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John, with your current setup I think it will be difficult to be "isolated" as you will always be part of 192.168.1.x. Since you are using a VM then the VM is part of the phsical machine by way of a virtual network. One way (maybe) to partially isolate your VM is to sub-net but that would mean sub-netting your physical machine also as your VM is using a virtual network. Another way (maybe) is to get another router and run it parallel to your current router and then connect your physical machine. Make sure you configure the second router router as 192.168.2.x. Mike > Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible > a workstation running out > on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM > running but it was part of > my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able > to access it remote > desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is > using stored info and > assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can > from my internal network. > > I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range > (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) > but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel > through the firewall. > > Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dc8 at btinternet.com Sat May 21 14:03:59 2011 From: dc8 at btinternet.com (Chris Swann) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 20:03:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Error 1004 In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net><00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4DD80C9F.4040509@btinternet.com> Hi all, I have some code that runs fine on my work PC running XP SP3 with Office 2007. Wanted to do a bit of work on my home PC which is Vista with Office 2003 and 2007 installed. I thought this might be the problem. So, I thought I'd try on my laptop which only has Office 2003 installed but got the same error. It seems to be failing at this point (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<) and I wondered if anybody might be able to shed any light on what might be causing the problem. The code completes the first two lines - correctly adds the data to the first two sheets and then fails part of code follows Do Line Input #1, theline a = Split(theline, "|") rowcount = rowcount + 1 For i = LBound(a) To UBound(a) Select Case i Case Is <= 249 sht1(rowcount, i + 1) = a(i) Case 250 To 499 sht2(rowcount, i - 249) = a(i) Case 500 To 749 sht3(rowcount, i - 499) = a(i) End Select Next i Loop While Not EOF(1) Close #1 With xlApp .Sheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht1 .Sheets("Sheet2").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht2 .Sheets("Sheet3").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht3 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< .Sheets("WantedData").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht4 End With Many thanks, Chris Swann From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat May 21 17:47:50 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 18:47:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Guess what? Somehow (without my conscious intervention) Access suddenly decided that the BE should be Read-Only, and that was the source of all my difficulties. So I copied it and renamed the old one to BE_RO and renamed the copy to BE, and lo and behold, everything worked again. I have no idea what I might have inadvertently done to cause Access to mark the BE ReadOnly, but it did, and now that I[ve sorted it out, I'm back in Productive City (i.e. billable time). A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it > doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form > from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. > > A. > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust < > charlotte.foust at gmail.com> wrote: > >> That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes >> sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens >> faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste >> time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the >> other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for >> you. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 21 18:09:23 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:09:23 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <182067B3E3754B08BC3F25B982E53469@abpc> Never underestimate your unconscious intervention... Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 22. maj 2011 00:48 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem Guess what? Somehow (without my conscious intervention) Access suddenly decided that the BE should be Read-Only, and that was the source of all my difficulties. So I copied it and renamed the old one to BE_RO and renamed the copy to BE, and lo and behold, everything worked again. I have no idea what I might have inadvertently done to cause Access to mark the BE ReadOnly, but it did, and now that I[ve sorted it out, I'm back in Productive City (i.e. billable time). A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it > doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form > from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. > > A. > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust < > charlotte.foust at gmail.com> wrote: > >> That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes >> sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens >> faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste >> time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the >> other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for >> you. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 23:52:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 00:52:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the database. I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:00:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 00:12:17 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:12:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> Hi John, Try AllowSpecialKeys notice the ending s I presume you are aware without a password all a bad guy needs to do is open a new mdb and import all stuff, if his show hidden objects is checked? Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full > menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 00:18:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:18:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the database. I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other > than through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a > db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup > "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 00:19:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:19:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you using here? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other > than through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a > db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup > "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:23:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:23:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > As an aside - why do you need this level of security? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I > added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button > to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, > query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show > hidden objects" when my init code runs. > > No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at > any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to > use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the > database. > > I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and > Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see > absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. > > So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the > two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight > physical security on the distributed app. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:28:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:28:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD89F0D.4000305@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, yes I know just how wussy Access security is. Like most locks, the objective is to keep the honest people honest. We all lock our doors when we leave home but it doesn't even slow down a burglar. The vast majority of users haven't a clue about how to get around security. The objective is to prevent them from stumbling into the tables or code etc. where they could do serious damage. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:12 AM, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi John, > > Try AllowSpecialKeys notice the ending s > > I presume you are aware without a password all a bad guy needs to do is open > a new mdb and import all stuff, if his show hidden objects is checked? > > Bill > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than >> through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar >> Set db = CurrentDb >> If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily >> write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you >> selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a >> "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display >> hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full >> menus", >> Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:36:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:36:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD8A0F0.50306@colbyconsulting.com> 2003. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:44:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:44:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 01:17:10 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:17:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com><120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Hi again, I guess I didn't make it clear Rocky's code ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False I believe the correct code is keys not key. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 02:01:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 17:01:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com>, <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The singular version has always worked for me. -- Stuart On 21 May 2011 at 23:17, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are > > you using here? > > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access > > Lockdown > > > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from > > working. Any clues why? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> John: > >> > >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > >> > >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > >> > >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > >> > >> Set dbs = CurrentDb > >> On Error GoTo Change_Err > >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > >> ChangeProperty = True > >> > >> Change_Bye: > >> Exit Function > >> > >> Change_Err: > >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > >> varPropType, varPropValue) > >> dbs.Properties.Append prp > >> Resume Next > >> Else > >> ' Unknown error. > >> ChangeProperty = False > >> Resume Change_Bye > >> End If > >> End Function > >> > >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app > >> other than through my own menus: > >> > >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" > >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On > >> Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > >> End If > >> > >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you > >> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties > >> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > >> > >> HTH > >> > >> Rocky > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers > >> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > >> > >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev > >> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system > >> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well > >> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > >> > >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 22 03:04:18 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 18:04:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net>, Message-ID: <201105220805.p4M851RO012802@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Yes, I have seen this from Thunderbird before, again it was ISP related. Had to point to a different server at the ISP in the end. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin [rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Saturday, 21 May 2011 6:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 08:08:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:08:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com><120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD90AB5.6000606@colbyconsulting.com> Bill, > I guess I didn't make it clear http://support.microsoft.com/kb/826765 Which is fascinating because notice that it specifically says you are ADDING that property to the database. When I executed the following: ?CurrentProject.Properties("AllowBypassKey") in a database where I had not done that, it came back with an error (property not found). After doing this: CurrentProject.Properties.Add "AllowBypassKey", False and *then* doing this: ?CurrentProject.Properties("AllowBypassKey") it came back 0. Which tells me that the AllowBypass property doesn't exist unless you make it. Even then however it doesn't prevent my database from opening bypassed. Hmmm... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 2:17 AM, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you >> using here? >> >> Rocky >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. >> Any clues why? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >>> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 08:18:14 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 06:18:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you securing that? Are you distributing an mde? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > As an aside - why do you need this level of security? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. > I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then > a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every > single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that > cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. > > No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't > get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty > much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them > from outside of the database. > > I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy > and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and > see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. > > So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button > for the two library files and the application file and I have > reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 10:54:13 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:54:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com>, <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, You are correct, I was reading the line above AllowByPassKey, AllowSpecialKeys which has an s in my code. My apologies to John for my vertical dyslexia. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart McLachlan" Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 12:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The singular version has always worked for me. -- Stuart On 21 May 2011 at 23:17, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are > > you using here? > > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access > > Lockdown > > > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from > > working. Any clues why? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> John: > >> > >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > >> > >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > >> > >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > >> > >> Set dbs = CurrentDb > >> On Error GoTo Change_Err > >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > >> ChangeProperty = True > >> > >> Change_Bye: > >> Exit Function > >> > >> Change_Err: > >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > >> varPropType, varPropValue) > >> dbs.Properties.Append prp > >> Resume Next > >> Else > >> ' Unknown error. > >> ChangeProperty = False > >> Resume Change_Bye > >> End If > >> End Function > >> > >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app > >> other than through my own menus: > >> > >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" > >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On > >> Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > >> End If > >> > >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you > >> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties > >> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > >> > >> HTH > >> > >> Rocky > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers > >> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > >> > >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev > >> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system > >> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well > >> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > >> > >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 22 12:33:48 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 10:33:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM In-Reply-To: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9FE9340ED3C34CC9B390266DF0AB834D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: You have to control it at the router end where you can create any number of virtual servers and assign, names, internal addresses, public/private ports, protocols etc. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible a workstation running out on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM running but it was part of my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able to access it remote desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is using stored info and assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can from my internal network. I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel through the firewall. Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 20:29:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 21:29:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown > users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 21:36:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 22:36:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9C849.4060908@colbyconsulting.com> As it happens the BE is probably the most secure of the lot (at least in terms of unauthorized users) for the simple reason that it comes in to my server over a Hamachi VPN. The user has to have Hamachi installed on their machine and have to be joined to the Hamachi network specific to that application. I have to invite the user to join the network and after they apply I have to authorize their joining the network. So yes, "the bad guy" can get at the data tables directly on the machine that I have authorized on the network, but if they move it (a linked FE) to another machine they cannot get in. All for naught if I cannot get the bypass key disabled, assuming that "the bad guy" knows about the bypass key. I still haven't figured out why the bypass key works even when I have a "DisableBypassKey" property set to false on the application - and on my libraries as well for that matter. I have also password protected the code modules, though as we all know these passwords are easily cracked by those of us with knowledge. I will eventually investigate whether I can programmatically compile MDB/A files to MDB, IOW copy to the destination then turn them into an MDE, all from an outside Access application like my C2DbProperties. Every little roadblock makes it that much more difficult to go where they should not go. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown > users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:01:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:01:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the application and it in fact does disable the bypass key. Once executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that property correctly works from my external tool as well. So se por que. jwc Function ap_DisableShift() 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes 'the Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. On Error GoTo errDisableShift Dim db As DAO.Database Dim prop as DAO.Property Const conPropNotFound = 3270 Set db = CurrentDb() 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False 'The function is successful. Exit Function errDisableShift: 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, False) db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End If End Function Function ap_EnableShift() 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed 'if the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. On Error GoTo errEnableShift Dim db as DAO.Database Dim prop as DAO.Property Const conPropNotFound = 3270 Set db = CurrentDb() 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True 'function successful Exit Function errEnableShift: 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, True) db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End If End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you >> securing that? >> >> Are you distributing an mde? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown >> users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >>> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >>> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >>> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >>> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >>> >>> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >>> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >>> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >>> from outside of the database. >>> >>> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >>> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >>> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >>> >>> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >>> for the two library files and the application file and I have >>> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>>> John: >>>> >>>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>>> >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>>> >>>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>>> >>>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>>> ChangeProperty = True >>>> >>>> Change_Bye: >>>> Exit Function >>>> >>>> Change_Err: >>>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>>> Resume Next >>>> Else >>>> ' Unknown error. >>>> ChangeProperty = False >>>> Resume Change_Bye >>>> End If >>>> End Function >>>> >>>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>>> than through my own menus: >>>> >>>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>>> End If >>>> >>>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> Rocky >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>>> >>>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>>> >>>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 22:15:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 20:15:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not try to find a way to change the data? Or in their environment do they need to protect the data from mischief or deliberate alteration of the data outside of the mandated procedures? What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by > unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid >> every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the >> application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you >>> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties >>> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev >>> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system >>> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well >>> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:17:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:17:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> Interestingly... My C2DbProperties application can read the values out and display them in check boxes. AllowBreakIntoCode is not being toggled true false as I toggle its check box, remaining always cleared. I wonder if this is the same issue as I had with AllowByPassKey, needing to be run from inside of the database container before it will work from outside of the container. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:01 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. > > I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the application and it in fact does > disable the bypass key. Once executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that > property correctly works from my external tool as well. > > So se por que. > > jwc > > Function ap_DisableShift() > 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes > 'the Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. > > On Error GoTo errDisableShift > > Dim db As DAO.Database > Dim prop as DAO.Property > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False > > 'The function is successful. > Exit Function > > errDisableShift: > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > 'property if it does not exist. > If Err = conPropNotFound Then > Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ > dbBoolean, False) > db.Properties.Append prop > Resume Next > Else > MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." > Exit Function > End If > > End Function > > Function ap_EnableShift() > 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes > 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed > 'if the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. > > On Error GoTo errEnableShift > > Dim db as DAO.Database > Dim prop as DAO.Property > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True > > 'function successful > Exit Function > > errEnableShift: > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > 'property if it does not exist. > If Err = conPropNotFound Then > Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ > dbBoolean, True) > db.Properties.Append prop > Resume Next > Else > MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." > Exit Function > End If > > End Function From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:40:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:40:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> > If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? If they are directly on the machine with the FE, they have access to the network and thus to the SQL Server data. All they have to be smart enough to do is copy the tables into an unsecured Access container. OTOH if they "walk away" with the FE and try to access the data on the server, they cannot do so because they have to be a member of the Hamachi network for that application which they will not be. > But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not try to find a way to change the data? Asking the client and asking the user are two different questions to two (or many) different people. I was walking through a client's office one day and saw a user in the FE in design view trying to modify a (linked) table. I asked her what she was doing. She had been sent to an access class, and had "decided" that she needed a couple of fields in an existing table so there she was trying to add them. In a linked table! In a FE which was downloaded to her machine every day. Just goes to show many things. 1) The client said users would not do such a thing. 2) The user was busy trying to do just such a thing. 3) The user was so uneducated that she was trying to modify a linked table on a Fe downloaded fresh to her machine daily. 4) She was still trying to do something that the "client" said was not going to happen. The developer's job is to idiot proof the application. The universe's job is to build better idiots. Which has the most experience? Luckily these are not medical applications or the like but still, the machines will exist "out on the internet somewhere". It is appropriate to tighten them up as much as possible. > What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? All of these applications are on user machines wherever the machine may reside. It access data on a SQL server in my office, via a Hamachi VPN HUB AND SPOKE network specific to each application. IOW "environment unknown". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they > be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? > > But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by > the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the > rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not > try to find a way to change the data? > > Or in their environment do they need to protect the data from mischief or > deliberate alteration of the data outside of the mandated procedures? > > What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? > > > R From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 22:43:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:43:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the code has the by-product of disabling "Break Into Code". -- Stuart On 22 May 2011 at 23:17, jwcolby wrote: > Interestingly... My C2DbProperties application can read the values out > and display them in check boxes. AllowBreakIntoCode is not being > toggled true false as I toggle its check box, remaining always > cleared. I wonder if this is the same issue as I had with > AllowByPassKey, needing to be run from inside of the database > container before it will work from outside of the container. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 11:01 PM, jwcolby wrote: > > Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. > > > > I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the > > application and it in fact does disable the bypass key. Once > > executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that > > property correctly works from my external tool as well. > > > > So se por que. > > > > jwc > > > > Function ap_DisableShift() > > 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes 'the > > Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. > > > > On Error GoTo errDisableShift > > > > Dim db As DAO.Database > > Dim prop as DAO.Property > > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > > > 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. > > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False > > > > 'The function is successful. > > Exit Function > > > > errDisableShift: > > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > > 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set > > prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, False) > > db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function > > 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End > > If > > > > End Function > > > > Function ap_EnableShift() > > 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes > > 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed 'if > > the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. > > > > On Error GoTo errEnableShift > > > > Dim db as DAO.Database > > Dim prop as DAO.Property > > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > > > 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. > > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True > > > > 'function successful > > Exit Function > > > > errEnableShift: > > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > > 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set > > prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, True) > > db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function > > 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End > > If > > > > End Function > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:53:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:53:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> Really! Yes it is, and of course it does. ;) Hmm... never considered that. So can the password protection be set programmatically from outside of the container? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the code has the by-product > of disabling "Break Into Code". > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 23:12:44 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:12:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. -- Stuart On 22 May 2011 at 23:53, jwcolby wrote: > Really! Yes it is, and of course it does. ;) Hmm... never > considered that. So can the password protection be set > programmatically from outside of the container? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 11:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the > > code has the by-product of disabling "Break Into Code". > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon May 23 02:34:28 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:34:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> John Just out of interest. You are spending a lot of time and effort locking the data from Access. How do you deal with access from other applications for example Excel etc Martin From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 05:36:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 06:36:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4DDA38AA.4080202@colbyconsulting.com> There isn't any such access. The data is accessed over odbc to SQL Server with a user name / password and hitting a specific IP:port. In order for the user to set up such access they will have to discover the username/pw for the sql server database, the IP:port, and of course be a member of the network if doing so from another computer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 3:34 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > John > > Just out of interest. You are spending a lot of time and effort locking the data from Access. How do you deal with access from other applications for example Excel etc > > Martin > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 07:06:59 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:06:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDA4DE3.9050705@colbyconsulting.com> Changing it is setting it. Do you have the code available? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" > application which does exactly that > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be > writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it > yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the > same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 08:22:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 09:22:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" > application which does exactly that > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be > writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it > yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the > same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 08:49:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 09:49:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? for example... ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password boxers and clicking the button. ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDSysTabControl32) 'Move to Protection tab SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project Properties dialog hWndLockProject = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) ' Lock project for &viewing SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 ' &Password SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword ' &Confirm password SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and > clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, >> >> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" >> application which does exactly that >> >> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. >> >> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be >> writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it >> yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the >> same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 09:53:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:53:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> Using this code I succeeded in opening my two frameworks and setting the module passwords in those, however doing so in the application causes the app to open and the startup code to run, which opens a login form (as it should on opening). It's always something! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 9:49 AM, jwcolby wrote: > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? for example... > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause it to go to the correct tab, > enter data into the password boxers and clicking the button. > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > 'Move to Protection tab > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. > EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) > ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project Properties dialog > hWndLockProject = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > ' Lock project for &viewing > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > ' &Password > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > ' &Confirm password > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. >> >> http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html >> >> It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and >> clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, >>> >>> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" >>> application which does exactly that >>> >>> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. >>> >>> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be >>> writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it >>> yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the >>> same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. >>> >>> From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 23 09:57:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:57:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> <> One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, _ ByVal lParam As Long) As Long Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As _ Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. Dim windows() As Long ' The number of elements in the array. Dim windowsCount As Long Sub getWindows() Dim lnghwnd As Long lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) End Sub ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) windowsCount = 0 If hWnd Then EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 Else EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 End If ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long End Function ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As _ Long Dim slength As Long Dim buffer As String Dim retval As Variant Dim classname As String ' Make room in the array, if necessary. If windowsCount = 0 Then ReDim windows(100) As Long ElseIf windowsCount >= UBound(windows) Then ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long End If ' Store the new item. windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 windows(windowsCount) = hWnd slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated window Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text of enumerated window classname = Space(255) slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname Debug.Print ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. EnumWindows_CBK = 1 End Function <> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 10:22:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 11:22:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> Message-ID: <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> Holy cow! It would appear that you have done this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 10:57 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < for example...>> > > > One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: > > Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, > _ > ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As > _ > Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > > Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias > "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long > Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" > (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As > Long > Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal > hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long > > ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure > ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine > > ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. > Dim windows() As Long > ' The number of elements in the array. > Dim windowsCount As Long > > > > > Sub getWindows() > > Dim lnghwnd As Long > > lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) > > Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) > > End Sub > > > ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows > ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. > > Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) > windowsCount = 0 > If hWnd Then > EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > Else > EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > End If > ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long > > End Function > > ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. > > Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) > As _ > Long > > Dim slength As Long > Dim buffer As String > Dim retval As Variant > Dim classname As String > > ' Make room in the array, if necessary. > If windowsCount = 0 Then > ReDim windows(100) As Long > ElseIf windowsCount>= UBound(windows) Then > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long > End If > ' Store the new item. > windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 > windows(windowsCount) = hWnd > slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text > buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer > retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text > Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated > window > Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd > Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text > of enumerated window > classname = Space(255) > slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) > classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space > Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname > Debug.Print > > ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. > EnumWindows_CBK = 1 > End Function > > > <> > From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon May 23 12:13:07 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 12:13:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> John, You have to create the property before you can set the property. At 12:01 AM 5/22/2011, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from >working. Any clues why? > >John W. Colby From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 12:31:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:31:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> References: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4DDA99E1.3030904@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. All of the other properties already existed so I was not looking for a property to not already be there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 1:13 PM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You have to create the property before you can set the property. > > > At 12:01 AM 5/22/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? >> >> John W. Colby From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 23 13:05:29 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:05:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <62A858BFF1C64B3AA9362641B80C124E@XPS> Not this specifically no, but I play around with the Windows API stuff when I get the chance. Right now I'm working on two things: 1. How to change the main Access window in 2007 & up. 2. How to make a form dockable (or at least simulate it). To do that I have a bunch of generic routines to poke around under the hood. Couple that with Process Explorer and it's amazing some of the stuff you can do or manipulate. But it's more of a hobby thing for me and I usually get myself in more trouble then it's worth. What started this is seeing "Printing on the Fly" by ATTAC Consulting years ago; I was simply amazed what they could do with API calls from within Access/VBA (hiding the properties dialog is what originally caught my eye). That and I've always wanted to get into systems programming. BTW, I tripped over this today looking for something else, which is really cool and will be interesting to everyone I'm sure (watch the wrap): http://blog.nkadesign.com/2008/ms-access-modal-dialogs-with-transparent-back grounds/ Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Holy cow! It would appear that you have done this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 10:57 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < for example...>> > > > One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: > > Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, > _ > ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As > _ > Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > > Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias > "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long > Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" > (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As > Long > Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal > hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long > > ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure > ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine > > ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. > Dim windows() As Long > ' The number of elements in the array. > Dim windowsCount As Long > > > > > Sub getWindows() > > Dim lnghwnd As Long > > lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) > > Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) > > End Sub > > > ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows > ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. > > Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) > windowsCount = 0 > If hWnd Then > EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > Else > EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > End If > ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long > > End Function > > ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. > > Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) > As _ > Long > > Dim slength As Long > Dim buffer As String > Dim retval As Variant > Dim classname As String > > ' Make room in the array, if necessary. > If windowsCount = 0 Then > ReDim windows(100) As Long > ElseIf windowsCount>= UBound(windows) Then > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long > End If > ' Store the new item. > windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 > windows(windowsCount) = hWnd > slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text > buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer > retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text > Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated > window > Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd > Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text > of enumerated window > classname = Space(255) > slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) > classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space > Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname > Debug.Print > > ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. > EnumWindows_CBK = 1 > End Function > > > <> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:03:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:03:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAAF9D.23921.2A7E8FC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'm aware of that technique. It's actually a lot easier to do that sort of thing using AutoIt. That is exactly what AutoIt was designed for and you don't need to use API messages to do it. But it's still a kludge. :-) -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 9:22, jwcolby wrote: > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and > then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > Actually cool stuff to know. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > > I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > > > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > > password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere > > in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after > > entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar > > utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a > > PW is a far more difficult task. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:06:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:06:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAB01C.25517.2A807DF4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> He used Spy++. It is one of a number of similar utilities that let you get all the info about any Windows control by hovering over it or clicking on it. AutoIt comes with a similar tool called AutoInfo. -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 9:49, jwcolby wrote: > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? > for example... > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties > dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDPassword) > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause > it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password boxers and > clicking the button. > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > 'Move to Protection tab > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab > changed. EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, > AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties > dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDPassword) ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit > control in Project Properties dialog hWndConfirmPassword = > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' > Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project > Properties dialog hWndLockProject = > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > ' Lock project for &viewing > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > ' &Password > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > strPassword > > ' &Confirm password > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > strPassword > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and > > then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > > Actually cool stuff to know. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > >> > >> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > >> I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > >> > >> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > >> > >> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > >> password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere > >> in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after > >> entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities > >> work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a > >> far more difficult task. > >> > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:08:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:08:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Like I said just now - it's a kludge. It only works under certain conditions, and is certainly not a foolproof technique for setting/unsetting PW protection on code :-( -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 10:53, jwcolby wrote: > Using this code I succeeded in opening my two frameworks and setting > the module passwords in those, however doing so in the application > causes the app to open and the startup code to run, which opens a > login form (as it should on opening). > > It's always something! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:49 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the > > objects? for example... > > > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > > > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to > > cause it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password > > boxers and clicking the button. > > > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > > ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > > > 'Move to Protection tab > > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. > > EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf > > EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties > > dialog hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > > ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox > > control in Project Properties dialog hWndLockProject = > > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > > > ' Lock project for &viewing > > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > > > ' &Password > > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > > > ' &Confirm password > > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > > strPassword > > > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > >> > >> http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > >> > >> It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up > >> and then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > >> Actually cool stuff to know. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >>> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do > >>> that, > >>> > >>> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > >>> I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > >>> > >>> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > >>> > >>> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > >>> password (possibly just be writing a different hash value > >>> somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself > >>> after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar > >>> utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a > >>> PW is a far more difficult task. > >>> > >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 15:23:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 16:23:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Access security is a kludge. By definition anything attempting to do this is a kludge since there is no direct method of doing so. I am reasonably certain I could work around this specific problem by doing things in specific order, Setting the code password then setting the AllowBypassKey true, setting the code password then setting the code password then setting the AllowBypassKey false. I am really trying to leave my dev copies totally unprotected but when I copy set all of the protection on them. As far as AutoIT goes, I try very hard to keep my Access manipulation tools developed inside of Access itself since it understands the target Access container and it contains native database objects for storing state and stuff, and native interface objects for displaying said state. Not to mention "starting from scratch" learning an obviously capable and powerful (and thus complex) system. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 3:08 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Like I said just now - it's a kludge. It only works under certain conditions, and is certainly not > a foolproof technique for setting/unsetting PW protection on code :-( > > From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 16:49:41 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 14:49:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 24 17:09:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 08:09:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> Message-ID: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 17:18:30 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 15:18:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 24 19:10:39 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 10:10:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> Message-ID: <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 19:53:04 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:53:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 24 20:23:23 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:23:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so it hasn't been as big a deal. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 24 20:38:28 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:38:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> Message-ID: <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> You can use the database documenter select all forms, Under Include for Sections and Controls, pick Names and Properties (note if you have named your subforms with Subfrm in the controls' name, you only need to pick Names If you had to pick Names and Properties, then click the Properties button and deselect all but "Other Properties" to make things a little less voluminous. You can export the results to Word (or Excel if you think it will fit -- probably Excel 2007+ will have enough vertical space) Look for Subform/Subreport: [names will appear after these characters] The hard part is keeping track of what Form the control is on... a macro might help -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 24 20:47:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 11:47:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I gave up on shared subforms a long time ago - had too many situations where new requirements meant that the same sub-form no longer worked on both master forms. Like you , I try to keep event procedures down to simple function calls with all the grunt work done in standard modules. -- Stuart On 24 May 2011 at 21:23, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I > suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find > keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. > > Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored > in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so > it hasn't been as big a deal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create > list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > > > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine > > out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 24 21:28:29 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:28:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com>, <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105250229.p4P2TXLB002589@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ That is a great approach. Using regular modules also makes the code much easier to transfer to another app with little or minor changes. If you are using form code that is not always as easy to do. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan [stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 11:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I gave up on shared subforms a long time ago - had too many situations where new requirements meant that the same sub-form no longer worked on both master forms. Like you , I try to keep event procedures down to simple function calls with all the grunt work done in standard modules. -- Stuart On 24 May 2011 at 21:23, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I > suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find > keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. > > Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored > in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so > it hasn't been as big a deal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create > list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > > > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine > > out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 25 08:22:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 09:22:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> Message-ID: <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... > 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, > 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, > 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, > 4. close each form > If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. > > BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some > other places. > Your other brother, > Darrell > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If > you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick > Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the > free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in > about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > [dhb at flsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies > subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > >> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out >> there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 25 09:32:23 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 10:32:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> >>" probably the only way to do it" Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... Bill -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... > 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, > 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls > for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more > straightforward way, I'm still interested. > > BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in > some other places. > Your other brother, > Darrell > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > > > Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at > you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick > Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the > free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself > in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > [dhb at flsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > >> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action > in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than > the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 25 11:54:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:54:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> Bill, Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought this was regarding subforms in Access. What in the heck is the doc/xls? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>> " probably the only way to do it" > Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to write a > once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines in the output > doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. > > Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since > the subforms aren't bound until runtime. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, >> 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls >> for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more >> straightforward way, I'm still interested. >> >> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >> some other places. >> Your other brother, >> Darrell >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >> Collins >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom >> of this message. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> >> >> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" > by Rick >> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the >> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >> [dhb at flsi.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >> list :-) >> >> frmMain >> frmMain_subCustomersList >> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >> >> >> >>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >> addressed. >> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >> review, >> >> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action >> in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than >> the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >> >> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >> >> This message has been scanned for viruses. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 25 14:15:55 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:15:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02e401cc1b10$2c7d7d30$85787790$@com> Bill, This isn't going to be a one-time process. Here's how I use it: On StartUp, I fill global arrays with each form/subform's name, RecordSource, and whether the RecordSource is a temp table. Since I make heavy use of tabbed subforms, I bind them to temp tables that are filled on the fly. I call a function that checks the RecordSource array to tell me which temp table needs to be filled. I had this logic hard-coded on each master form before, but now it's a shared procedure and is much easier to add new forms. Another advantage is that I can fill the subform tables before I load the form. - Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms You can use the database documenter select all forms, Under Include for Sections and Controls, pick Names and Properties (note if you have named your subforms with Subfrm in the controls' name, you only need to pick Names If you had to pick Names and Properties, then click the Properties button and deselect all but "Other Properties" to make things a little less voluminous. You can export the results to Word (or Excel if you think it will fit -- probably Excel 2007+ will have enough vertical space) Look for Subform/Subreport: [names will appear after these characters] The hard part is keeping track of what Form the control is on... a macro might help -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 25 15:01:00 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 16:01:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> John, Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get the details you want. I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend one, it would be Allforms lol) Bill -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms Bill, Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought this was regarding subforms in Access. What in the heck is the doc/xls? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>> " probably the only way to do it" > Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to > write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines > in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. > > Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms > since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >> still interested. >> >> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >> some other places. >> Your other brother, >> Darrell >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >> Collins >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >> bottom of this message. >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> >> >> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" > by Rick >> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the >> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >> [dhb at flsi.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >> list :-) >> >> frmMain >> frmMain_subCustomersList >> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >> >> >> >>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >> addressed. >> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >> review, >> >> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >> >> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >> >> This message has been scanned for viruses. >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 26 05:08:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 06:08:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform controls at runtime. I call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that control does not have a subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different subforms into the same subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The upshot is that the documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick these up. I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > John, > > Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible > ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with > Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative > > The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel > file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get > the details you want. > > I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend > one, it would be Allforms lol) > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > Bill, > > Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought > this was regarding subforms in Access. > > What in the heck is the doc/xls? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>> " probably the only way to do it" >> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >> >> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>> still interested. >>> >>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>> some other places. >>> Your other brother, >>> Darrell >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>> bottom of this message. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> >>> >>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >> by Rick >>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use > the >>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>> list :-) >>> >>> frmMain >>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>> >>> >>> >>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>> addressed. >>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>> review, >>> >>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>> >>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>> >>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>> >>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu May 26 11:25:05 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:25:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007+ 64-bit unanticipated problem Message-ID: Like many others on this list, I have come to value MzTools as absolutely indispensable. However, I have recently discovered that it will not run in a 64-bit environment (unless I install Office 32-bit, which I am reluctant to do). The author of MzTools has declared his intention never to do a 64-bit version. Bummer! So now I'm reduced to copying the headers and error handlers from old procedures to new ones, or alternatively, Saving the App in 32-bit version, running MzTools there, and copying the generated code and documentation back to the 64-bit version. Either way, it sucks. Unlike some developers here, I have committed to the 64-bit version, and believe that the days of 32-bit are numbered. So I may ultimately be forced to reverse-engineer MzTools, revise some portions I'm less than happy with, and release something called ArtfulToolsVBA64. Well, now that I'm semi-retired, with just one remaining client (who is undyingly faithful), perhaps I've got the time available to embark on this project. So, a word of caution: either don't commit to the new format or install a 32-bit version of Office so this problem won't arise. Sadly, Arthur From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 26 13:26:05 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:26:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 13:36:51 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:36:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 26 13:56:53 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:56:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu May 26 13:56:07 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:56:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: All, Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. I have never experimented with this area before. We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the date that the Email was sent. I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure where to start. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Brad From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:09:23 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:09:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: http://www.helenfeddema.com/ Helen's the automation queen as far as I'm concerned. Have fun! Susan H. > All, > > Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. > > I have never experimented with this area before. > > We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the > date that the Email was sent. > > I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure > where to start. > > Any advice would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:32:17 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:32:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com><9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and enter the string to id the patient? Susan H. > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to > track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked > them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying > yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return > and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll > need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 26 14:34:47 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:34:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> John, Are your JIT subforms pre-bound to a table or query, or do you create the recordsource on the fly? DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform controls at runtime. I call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that control does not have a subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different subforms into the same subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The upshot is that the documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick these up. I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > John, > > Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible > ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with > Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative > > The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel > file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get > the details you want. > > I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend > one, it would be Allforms lol) > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > Bill, > > Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought > this was regarding subforms in Access. > > What in the heck is the doc/xls? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>> " probably the only way to do it" >> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >> >> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>> still interested. >>> >>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>> some other places. >>> Your other brother, >>> Darrell >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>> bottom of this message. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> >>> >>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >> by Rick >>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use > the >>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>> list :-) >>> >>> frmMain >>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>> >>> >>> >>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>> addressed. >>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>> review, >>> >>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>> >>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>> >>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>> >>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 26 14:53:06 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:53:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Hi John. Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. And the DOB should always be in YYYYMMDD order. As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. HTH, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 11:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [Spam]8.31 Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:58:55 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:58:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins><4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: I agree John -- hence my questions. I don't think this custom id is necessary and is apt to cause you trouble. Susan H. > Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other > words, > a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his > surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead > of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the > same > key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a > unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You > may > want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be > indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build > an > index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. And the DOB should always be in > YYYYMMDD order. > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu May 26 15:13:54 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:13:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in trouble. Charlotte Foust On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM, John Clark wrote: > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. > >>>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> >> 1) >> The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique >> identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. ?The only personal data I am >> getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This >> is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from >> infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. >> >> The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 >> letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle >> initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits >> of DoB. >> >> For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be >> assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 >> >> It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just >> looking for opinions on this... > > > =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If > you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to > all this trouble? > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From markamatte at hotmail.com Thu May 26 15:26:35 2011 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 20:26:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, Message-ID: I am also doing quite a bit with company/individual name and address matching...and you gave the perfect example that causes issues: Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 Age 5 Joe comes in...age 10 Joseph comes in...age 14...he switched to using his middle name in high school. I don't remember who suggested it...but I liked the idea of the lookup in the interface to choose the existing patient. Mark A. Matte > Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:13:54 -0700 > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for > yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they > need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a > fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of > the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the > one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but > that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. > They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in > trouble. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM, John Clark > wrote: > > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. > > > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. > > > >>>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > >> 1) > >> The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > >> identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > >> getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > >> is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > >> infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > >> > >> The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > >> letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > >> initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > >> of DoB. > >> > >> For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > >> assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > >> > >> It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > >> looking for opinions on this... > > > > > > =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If > > you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to > > all this trouble? > > > > Susan H. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu May 26 15:35:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:35:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> John, <> You need to: 1. Use an auto number as the "primary key" for the table. 2. Add an additional index on the table based on the last name, first name, middle init and DOB (this is the true primary key). You should never use parts of field as part of a key. It's the whole field or nothing. 3. Provide a lookup in the interface for the user to select the right person based on the true primary key. The auto number just gains you performance within the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 02:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Thu May 26 15:40:27 2011 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:40:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> Message-ID: For tracking here we use gender, date of Birth, last 4 of the ssn, first two letters of the last name (Birth name) My tracking ID would be 1091319490687TE Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 4:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions John, <> You need to: 1. Use an auto number as the "primary key" for the table. 2. Add an additional index on the table based on the last name, first name, middle init and DOB (this is the true primary key). You should never use parts of field as part of a key. It's the whole field or nothing. 3. Provide a lookup in the interface for the user to select the right person based on the true primary key. The auto number just gains you performance within the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 02:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 15:48:21 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:48:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, Message-ID: <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> The same problem will exist with a lookup interface, but the potential error will be more obvious--hopefully. If you force the user to create the id on the fly, they're liable to generate an id that exists for someone else and never even know it. Joe T Murphy born on Dec 7th, 1994 Tom M Murphy albo born on Dec 7, 1994 So Joe T. comes in at 14 and gives his name as Tom Murphy, the user plugs in MURTO?120794 which pulls up MURTOM120794 when Joe's id is actually MURJOT120794 but the user isn't paying attention and loads away...of course, you could build in protection, but the potential's there. You'll have the same problem with a lookup interface, but at least, it will be more obvious that there's more than one Murphy on the same birthdate -- not sure how to avoid a problem like this other than having other than forcing the user to ask for more information when there's more than one record that might fulfill a request. "I have two Murphy's born on that date -- can I have your full name please?" -- interesting problem. Don't these folks have a patient id? How would the dentist in question identify the two patients -- what criteria are they currently using? I have this sort of problem a lot -- even when I write my name down, people have trouble with it and want to pull up records for Susan Hawkins, Susan Parkins, Susan Haskins -- happens to me all the time. So, this is really more than a database design problem. Susan H. > > I am also doing quite a bit with company/individual name and address > matching...and you gave the perfect example that causes issues: > Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 > > Age 5 Joe comes in...age 10 Joseph comes in...age 14...he switched to > using his middle name in high school. > > I don't remember who suggested it...but I liked the idea of the lookup in > the interface to choose the existing patient. > >> >> What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for >> yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they >> need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a >> fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of >> the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the >> one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but >> that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. >> They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in >> trouble. >> >> Charlotte Foust From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu May 26 18:30:13 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 01:30:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <0C4789195145441983C735DCD931CF4B@abpc> John, For once a question, I'm fit to answer - the dumb one ;-) Office Button -> Access Options -> Current Database -> Select "Overlapping Windows" instead of "Tabbed Documents" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af John Clark Sendt: 26. maj 2011 20:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Thu May 26 22:15:18 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:15:18 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] HyperlinkAddress Message-ID: New to me: OnClick of a form's command button has this - Me.btnName.HyperlinkAddress = "http://fs3/truck/rptTruckPortAll.asp" I presume that the asp is on a server somewhere. I have a local copy which is a text file containing vbScript (looks like ADO connection strings) followed by HTML for the layout of the data. The customer has a brand new Server configuration so this has broken. I assume all I need to do is to get them to give me the new location and replace the code line above? Stephen Bond From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 26 22:38:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 13:38:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] HyperlinkAddress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDF1CD1.12481.EFB35EC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That should work as long as the ADO connection strings are still correct. However if they have reconfigured servers, you may need to change the connection strings in the .asp file to point to wherever the data is now as well. -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 15:15, Stephen Bond wrote: > New to me: > > OnClick of a form's command button has this - > > Me.btnName.HyperlinkAddress = > "http://fs3/truck/rptTruckPortAll.asp" > > I presume that the asp is on a server somewhere. I have a local copy > which is a text file containing vbScript (looks like ADO connection > strings) followed by HTML for the layout of the data. The customer > has a brand new Server configuration so this has broken. I assume all > I need to do is to get them to give me the new location and replace > the code line above? > > Stephen Bond > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 27 00:55:46 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 01:55:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). A. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 01:06:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 16:06:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the item concerned or to it's container. Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > are an excellent example). > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri May 27 08:18:47 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , , <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in a dozen or more table relationships is changed. Dan PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the item concerned or to it's container. Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > are an excellent example). > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:24:34 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:24:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com><9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already been there, and what data they provided at that time. And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and enter the string to id the patient? Susan H. > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to > track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked > them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying > yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return > and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll > need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:35:00 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:35:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> >>> "Darrell Burns" 5/26/2011 3:53 P >>> Hi John. Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. *** You bring up good points, but this is all the info I have to work with. But, I will probably change to include more of the first name, and maybe even the last name too. *** I do use the autonumber in the table; I am just using this one for searching and tracking purposes. *** If '49 was entered for the birthday it would kick it out, because the person is too old for the survey. But, I understand your point, and in my case it is a minimal risk of error...there is immediate feedback on age, so it would probably stick out, if it weren't close. And, I may build in some validation features as well. *** the adoption...or change of use of MI...did occur to me, but I really don't have many other options. And the DOB should always be in YYYYMMDD order. *** Why? Seriously...I am not challenging your claim, but I'd really like to learn about this. What does the order really matter? It isn't a big deal to change this, but before I do things like this I like to know why...so w/I am asked I don't just confess to being a blind follower. As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. *** Thank you...I did not know this and it was driving me nuts. HTH, Darrell ----- From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:37:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:37:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDFB711.6070708@colbyconsulting.com> I second the autonumber as the (surrogate) PK but I use a hash (discussed previously) to hash the full name and DOB (in this case) to get as unique an identifier as you possibly can boiled down to a single field. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 2:26 PM, John Clark wrote: > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... > > 2) > This one is a dumb one... > > I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? > > Thanks...J Clark From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:41:07 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:41:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DDF7FC30200006B0001FC7B@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 4:48 P >>> The same problem will exist with a lookup interface, but the potential error will be more obvious--hopefully. If you force the user to create the id on the fly, they're liable to generate an id that exists for someone else and never even know it. Joe T Murphy born on Dec 7th, 1994 Tom M Murphy albo born on Dec 7, 1994 So Joe T. comes in at 14 and gives his name as Tom Murphy, the user plugs in MURTO?120794 which pulls up MURTOM120794 when Joe's id is actually MURJOT120794 but the user isn't paying attention and loads away...of course, you could build in protection, but the potential's there. *** Well, then Joe would be a damn liar, eh?! ;o) *** Seriously though, how could I possibly account for someone giving me the wrong name...w/out having a SSN? Anybody can come in and tell us anything. You'll have the same problem with a lookup interface, but at least, it will be more obvious that there's more than one Murphy on the same birthdate -- not sure how to avoid a problem like this other than having other than forcing the user to ask for more information when there's more than one record that might fulfill a request. "I have two Murphy's born on that date -- can I have your full name please?" -- interesting problem. *** I've already been thinking about something like this...just if it comes up that it is already an entered name/ID. But, I probably wouldn't bother, unless in conflicted. Don't these folks have a patient id? How would the dentist in question identify the two patients -- what criteria are they currently using? *** There is no dentist involved actually. This is just a program through the health department, for tracking. I have this sort of problem a lot -- even when I write my name down, people have trouble with it and want to pull up records for Susan Hawkins, Susan Parkins, Susan Haskins -- happens to me all the time. So, this is really more than a database design problem. *** Oh, believe me...w/your name is "John Clark" you know all about this...hell, I've almost gotten arrested over it. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:41:29 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:41:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> Message-ID: <4DDFB819.7010900@colbyconsulting.com> Usually they are bound to a query. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 3:34 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > John, > Are your JIT subforms pre-bound to a table or query, or do you create the > recordsource on the fly? > DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform > controls at runtime. I > call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that > control does not have a > subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different > subforms into the same > subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The > upshot is that the > documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick > these up. > > I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >> John, >> >> Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is > possible >> ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with >> Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative >> >> The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an > Excel >> file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and > get >> the details you want. >> >> I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend >> one, it would be Allforms lol) >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> Bill, >> >> Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought >> this was regarding subforms in Access. >> >> What in the heck is the doc/xls? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>>> " probably the only way to do it" >>> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >>> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >>> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >>> >>> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >>> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>>> still interested. >>>> >>>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>>> some other places. >>>> Your other brother, >>>> Darrell >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>>> Collins >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>>> bottom of this message. >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >>> by Rick >>>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use >> the >>>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>>> list :-) >>>> >>>> frmMain >>>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>>> addressed. >>>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>>> review, >>>> >>>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>>> >>>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>>> >>>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>>> >>>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:44:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:44:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> Uh ohhh... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 1:55 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of Intelligent > Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and Fabian Pascal and the > inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a good thing, in certain > applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). > > A. From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri May 27 09:47:54 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:47:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE2D3@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> This could be a good day on accessd ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions Uh ohhh... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 1:55 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). > > A. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:53:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:53:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption Message-ID: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 10:28:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 01:28:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: , , <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. ? Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash of that info as a key. Then look that up if you are checking for duplicates. It dioesn't have to be user readable. -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already > been there, and what data they provided at that time. > > And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it > is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there > would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. > > >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> > Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually > going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and > enter the string to id the patient? > > Susan H. > > > > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want > > to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I > > asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and > > they are saying yes. > > > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they > > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at > > 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each > > time. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:09:02 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:09:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of said tires a warning that there are potential issues. This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I shall use IKs. A. From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 27 11:13:03 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:13:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Message-ID: Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri May 27 11:20:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:20:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Only if the users have an MDB file that they are working with, and you'd have to open the form (via code) in design mode to make the change and then save it. All very messy. Much simpler way to do this is to save the date in a table. Then when the form opens you can look up the date in the table and then change the label caption. All this can be done in the form's Load event. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:13 PM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 11:36:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:36:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDFD2F5.5030601@colbyconsulting.com> Uhhhh Ohhhhh... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 12:09 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this > topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. > > > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I > tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational > analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which > refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I > don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until > several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need > build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of > said tires a warning that there are potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I > write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I > shall use IKs. > > A. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:52:16 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:52:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I've argued with experts about IKs like social security numbers. Their arguments always seem to boil down to, "Well, they don't USUALLY change, so that's OK." I prefer to violate strict normalization and include an IK that CAN be changed and an autonumber that can't. Then when the IK must be changed (i.e., wrong SSN), the connections among tables aren't lost. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this > topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. > > > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I > tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational > analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which > refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I > don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until > several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need > build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of > said tires a warning that there are potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I > write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I > shall use IKs. > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:55:56 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:55:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: The YYYYMMDD date format always sorts in appropriate date order, regardless of the regional settings on your machine. That's why. You needn't even save it as a date, just a number or string. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 7:35 AM, John Clark wrote: > > >>>> "Darrell Burns" 5/26/2011 3:53 P >>> > Hi John. > Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, > a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his > surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead > of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same > key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a > unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may > want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be > indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an > index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. > > *** You bring up good points, but this is all the info I have to work with. But, I will probably change to include more of the first name, and maybe even the last name too. > > *** I do use the autonumber in the table; I am just using this one for searching and tracking purposes. > > *** If '49 was entered for the birthday it would kick it out, because the person is too old for the survey. But, I understand your point, and in my case it is a minimal risk of error...there is immediate feedback on age, so it would probably stick out, if it weren't close. And, I may build in some validation features as well. > > *** the adoption...or change of use of MI...did occur to me, but I really don't have many other options. > > And the DOB should always be in > YYYYMMDD order. > *** Why? Seriously...I am not challenging your claim, but I'd really like to learn about this. What does the order really matter? It isn't a big deal to change this, but before I do things like this I like to know why...so w/I am asked I don't just confess to being a blind follower. > > As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in > upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current > Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, > there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. > *** Thank you...I did not know this and it was driving me nuts. > > HTH, > Darrell > > ----- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri May 27 11:58:20 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:58:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at the methods and properties that are available. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] redemption We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From phpons at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:22:43 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 19:22:43 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi all, I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. Do you have any experience on that matter? In that case,would you share it with me? TIA, Philippe From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:39:58 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:39:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: The hash could never change in that case. So what happens if the name changes and someone else comes in with the old name? The mantra we always followed in my previous lives was "Always Check For Existing Keys First". Charlotte On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. > ? > > Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash of that info as a key. > Then look that ?up if you are checking for duplicates. ?It dioesn't have to be user readable. > > -- > Stuart > > On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > >> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already >> been there, and what data they provided at that time. >> >> And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it >> is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there >> would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. >> >> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> >> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually >> going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and >> enter the string to id the patient? >> >> Susan H. >> >> >> > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate >> > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want >> > to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I >> > asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and >> > they are saying yes. >> > >> > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they >> > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at >> > 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each >> > time. >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 27 13:18:40 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 14:18:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Lambert, I had mentioned saving the Date and concatenating it, which I think is the best way. However, do you have a reference or a procedure for Opening the Form in design view and modifying the label and saving it. I suppose it could be done as a separate process when the database is closed. I haven't tried opening a form in design mode and modifying with vba. TIA Jack -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Only if the users have an MDB file that they are working with, and you'd have to open the form (via code) in design mode to make the change and then save it. All very messy. Much simpler way to do this is to save the date in a table. Then when the form opens you can look up the date in the table and then change the label caption. All this can be done in the form's Load event. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:13 PM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rls at WeBeDb.com Fri May 27 15:02:38 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:02:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From rls at WeBeDb.com Fri May 27 15:12:53 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:12:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67956FA3-B5AD-4A25-ACB1-ADAE60D8E59F@holly.arvixe.com> And in the case of social service agencies that deal with illegal aliens, the SSN can also be duplicated. I have seen that numerous times working with them on my application. At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:52:16 -0700 >From: Charlotte Foust >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >I've argued with experts about IKs like social security numbers. >Their arguments always seem to boil down to, "Well, they don't USUALLY >change, so that's OK." I prefer to violate strict normalization and >include an IK that CAN be changed and an autonumber that can't. Then >when the IK must be changed (i.e., wrong SSN), the connections among >tables aren't lost. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 17:45:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:45:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4DE0297B.25507.1314BE62@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> There's nothing wrong with using a batch number or other Intelligent Key in your table. Just don't use is as a Primary/Foreign Key for relationships between other tables. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 12:09, Arthur Fuller wrote: > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this > forum, I tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than > rational analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis > Date which refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept > them halfway. I don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, > unless and until several of these instances have caused highway > fatalities. Therefore, I need build this (batch) into the design, so > that I can report to all owners of said tires a warning that there are > potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically > simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app > I write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more > likely I shall use IKs. > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 17:51:43 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:51:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4DE02AFF.7994.131AA7A8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Sub myForm_BeforeUpdate() .. Hash = CalcHash(FName,Lname,MI,DOB) ... End Sub On 27 May 2011 at 10:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > The hash could never change in that case. So what happens if the name > changes and someone else comes in with the old name? The mantra we > always followed in my previous lives was "Always Check For Existing > Keys First". > > Charlotte > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > > And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is > > already present. ? > > > > Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash > > of that info as a key. Then look that ?up if you are checking for > > duplicates. ?It dioesn't have to be user readable. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > > > >> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already > >> been there, and what data they provided at that time. > >> > >> And, no, the person entering data does not enter the > >> number/rule...it is done automagically after they enter the other > >> data. And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id > >> is already present. > >> > >> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> > >> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users > >> actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your > >> rule and enter the string to id the patient? > >> > >> Susan H. > >> > >> > >> > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 > >> > alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple > >> > times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit > >> > habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these > >> > same clients return and they are saying yes. > >> > > >> > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they > >> > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally > >> > at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person > >> > each time. > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat May 28 00:25:32 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:25:32 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display Message-ID: A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 28 05:19:06 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:19:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 28 05:42:31 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:42:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50265A3B3AEC42AB9D8A9FEBEC15E29C@abpc> And now I just noticed that the date field has a property called Show Date Picker, which you can set to Never. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Asger Blond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 12:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat May 28 06:27:04 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 07:27:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007+ 64-bit unanticipated problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE0DC08.7060306@torchlake.com> Arthur, Could be a whole new career for you - translating good 32-bit apps into good 64-bit apps. :-) T Arthur Fuller wrote: > Like many others on this list, I have come to value MzTools as absolutely > indispensable. However, I have recently discovered that it will not run in a > 64-bit environment (unless I install Office 32-bit, which I am reluctant to > do). The author of MzTools has declared his intention never to do a 64-bit > version. Bummer! So now I'm reduced to copying the headers and error > handlers from old procedures to new ones, or alternatively, Saving the App > in 32-bit version, running MzTools there, and copying the generated code and > documentation back to the 64-bit version. Either way, it sucks. > > Unlike some developers here, I have committed to the 64-bit version, and > believe that the days of 32-bit are numbered. So I may ultimately be forced > to reverse-engineer MzTools, revise some portions I'm less than happy with, > and release something called ArtfulToolsVBA64. Well, now that I'm > semi-retired, with just one remaining client (who is undyingly faithful), > perhaps I've got the time available to embark on this project. > > So, a word of caution: either don't commit to the new format or install a > 32-bit version of Office so this problem won't arise. > > Sadly, > Arthur > From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 28 11:30:47 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:30:47 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi Philippe Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp A fully functional trial is available for download. Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners and their misbehaving. /gustav >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> Hi all, I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. Do you have any experience on that matter? In that case,would you share it with me? TIA, Philippe From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 13:27:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:27:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation Message-ID: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=1 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 13:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:39:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE14171.5070607@colbyconsulting.com> Never mind. I discovered I can just navigate to a url to get it and I can dynamically build that URL. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 2:27 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=1 > > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 28 15:13:03 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 13:13:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just a note John: This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the time you posted this. ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa ge=1 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 15:33:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 16:33:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. Google nc public offender website On the left hand site click Offender public search Find yourself. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note John: > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they > should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the > time you posted this. > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does > seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on > felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few > terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific > information. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web > page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically > display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa > ge=1 > From phpons at gmail.com Sat May 28 15:52:16 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:52:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thank's a lot for your input, it seems chestysoft provides the ocx I need. But who is this Simon Chester, and how would I reach him, if needed? He does not seem to be an AccessD guy, does he? Regards, Philippe 2011/5/28 Gustav Brock > Hi Philippe > > Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: > > http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp > > A fully functional trial is available for download. > > Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable > animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support > from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners > and their misbehaving. > > /gustav > > > >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> > Hi all, > > I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control > a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. > > Do you have any experience on that matter? > In that case,would you share it with me? > > TIA, > > Philippe > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From phpons at gmail.com Sat May 28 15:54:38 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:54:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Will you find DSK, our ex next "Pr?sident de la R?publique"? Philippe 2011/5/28 jwcolby > This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. > > Google > > nc public offender website > > On the left hand site click > > Offender public search > > Find yourself. ;) > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Just a note John: >> >> This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they >> should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within >> the >> time you posted this. >> >> ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does >> seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on >> felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few >> terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very >> specific >> information. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation >> >> Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web >> page? Notice the "click >> to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to >> automatically >> display the photo. >> >> >> http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 >> >> 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa >> ge=1 >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat May 28 16:33:52 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 09:33:52 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Asger, these both work well. I was looking for a global setting ... duhh. (I pick up my pension soon) Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Saturday, 28 May 2011 10:46 p.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display And now I just noticed that the date field has a property called Show Date Picker, which you can set to Never. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Asger Blond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 12:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 28 19:10:32 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:10:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: It just seems strange to me. Working within a number of government projects there are some very strict guide-lines as to who has access to what data. It must be a state thing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] vba IE automation This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. Google nc public offender website On the left hand site click Offender public search Find yourself. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note John: > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they > should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the > time you posted this. > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does > seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on > felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few > terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific > information. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web > page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically > display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa > ge=1 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 28 20:29:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 11:29:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com>, <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DE1A17D.20360.18D19906@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A quick google reveals similar websites for a number of US states. -- Stuart On 28 May 2011 at 17:10, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > It just seems strange to me. Working within a number of government > projects there are some very strict guide-lines as to who has access > to what data. It must be a state thing. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. > > Google > > nc public offender website > > On the left hand site click > > Offender public search > > Find yourself. ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Just a note John: > > > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps > > they should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire > > database within > the > > time you posted this. > > > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it > > does seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking > > system, on felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible > > through a very few terminal and with multiple security levels and > > displaying only very > specific > > information. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on > > the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying > > this on a form but I want to > automatically > > display the photo. > > > > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offend > erID=0 > > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults& > listpa > ge=1 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 29 02:34:48 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 09:34:48 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi Philippe Simon more or less is Chestysoft. >From the home page: "Chestysoft is owned by Simon Chester" /gustav >>> phpons at gmail.com 28-05-2011 22:52 >>> Hi Gustav, Thank's a lot for your input, it seems chestysoft provides the ocx I need. But who is this Simon Chester, and how would I reach him, if needed? He does not seem to be an AccessD guy, does he? Regards, Philippe 2011/5/28 Gustav Brock > Hi Philippe > > Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: > > http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp > > A fully functional trial is available for download. > > Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable > animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support > from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners > and their misbehaving. > > /gustav > > > >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> > Hi all, > > I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control > a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. > > Do you have any experience on that matter? > In that case,would you share it with me? > > TIA, > > Philippe From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 29 19:18:57 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 20:18:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon May 30 02:52:44 2011 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 08:52:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at the > methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security > nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move > for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those > things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the > MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening > outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was > moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder > that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being > there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the > folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 07:45:35 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 07:45:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 30 07:55:59 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 07:55:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Message-ID: I use ClickYes -- I send out hundreds of emails through Outlook at a time. I just turn ClickYes on, start the email routine, and walk away. There's nothing to click. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 08:57:03 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 08:57:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001b01cc1ed1$7658c8f0$630a5ad0$@comcast.net> That works differently than I knew about. But still, I don't need to train users how to do it - emails, and the MS Security Dialogbox, are just not displayed. Outlook Evader does have additional properties and methods which I've found pretty useful - like letting users decide if they want to save emails sent from my app to be saved in the Sent folder or not. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption I use ClickYes -- I send out hundreds of emails through Outlook at a time. I just turn ClickYes on, start the email routine, and walk away. There's nothing to click. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:11:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:11:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) ? Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) ? Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:15:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:15:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> Mark, > I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. And that works well when it works well. In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to process... We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a > few years ago. > > It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly > dialogbox MS put in the way. > > Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. > > Mark From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Mon May 30 20:26:20 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 03:26:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> Jim, I don't want to reiterate this discussion but your comment puzzles me. I quite agree that an autonumber is not a primary key, but I would then hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be. So just to get you right I would like to know: Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a unique index on the autonumber field? And also: when implementing a foreign key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the autonumber key? If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then I disagree and we have a point of discussion. If not, I don't get the meaning in your comment. Then you are in accordance with Robert, and I suggest with most of us. The disagreement appears to me to be a matter of wording, or if you prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 20:32:17 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 20:32:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Mark, > I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. And that works well when it works well. In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to process... We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years > ago. > > It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the > silly dialogbox MS put in the way. > > Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. > > Mark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 30 20:34:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:34:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: , , <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE4458C.17944.2322969C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Hear, hear! -- Stuart On 30 May 2011 at 21:11, jwcolby wrote: > Jim, > > >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that > says a primary key cannot change. > > First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational > model but I will just give you that one. No contest. > > Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: > > Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order > for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying > something like: > > Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do > care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. > > Just for the record, my hand is not up. > > Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* > change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not > the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or > fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add > one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all > hell breaks loose. > > Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with > your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to > say, you can give it a rest. > > I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better > damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could > refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it > the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could > avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. > > So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to > call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it > the PK around Jim" object and tell us. > > We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK > because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and > click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the > "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK > around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to > that as the PK. > > We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same > thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" > object and voila, MS calls it the PK. > > *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with > another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not > call it the PK around Jim" object. > > Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your > professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. > > I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. > > And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so > do I. > > Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them > however I am going to. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key > > There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: > > Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) > A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The > surrogate is internally generated by > the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. > Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) > A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The > surrogate is internally generated > by the system and is invisible to the user or application. > > http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 > > A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. > > It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used > for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate > primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. > > http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm > http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html > > 1. Common Key Terminology > > Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys > and then work through an example. These terms are: > > * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely > identify an entity. In a > physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns > whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. > * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more > attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of > attributes that already exist in the real world. > For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) > that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's > pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, > assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the > scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). > * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. > * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model > will have zero or more candidate > keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people > don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no > hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American > citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and > the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is > unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are > called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the > primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within > a physical data model. > * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. > * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another > unique identifier of a row > within a table. > * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that > represents a key, either > primary or secondary, in another entity type. > > I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is > precisely the above set of terms. > > Since every key uniquely identifies the row... > > The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with > the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database > designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was > selected because it is just that. > > As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the > (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real > world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the > relational model. > > As if I care. > > The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in > the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often > conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural > keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to > actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical > relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). > > You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality > we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is > where *I* live!". > > Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from > which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out > I still have to call myself uneducated! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > < > not dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational > > model is > > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list > > a while > > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a > > tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the > > data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is > > unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that > > combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and > > ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on > > every row > > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in > > relational terms is not a surrogate key. > > > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will > > ensure that a > > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, > > then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table > > (relation). > > > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number > > as a > > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need > > to create a unique index based on the PK. > > > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it > > can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, > > great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job > > done. > > > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > > shortcut. > > > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a > > name > > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's > > allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper > > on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. > > > > Jim. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 30 20:35:00 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:35:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com>, Message-ID: <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Models are not reality. (Neither in information systems nor in climate ) -- Stuart On 29 May 2011 at 20:18, Jim Dettman wrote: > There is nothing stated in any paper on the > relational model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:59:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:59:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com>, <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DE44B8B.3040602@colbyconsulting.com> Hear, Hear! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:35 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Models are not reality. (Neither in information systems nor in climate) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 10:05:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:05:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DE503C3.1060103@colbyconsulting.com> Have fun is RIGHT. I am doing Outlook automation from C# and the security warnings crapola every time you do anything is annoying / obnoxious. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 3:09 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > http://www.helenfeddema.com/ > > Helen's the automation queen as far as I'm concerned. > > > > > > Have fun! > > Susan H. > > >> All, >> >> Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. >> >> I have never experimented with this area before. >> >> We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the >> date that the Email was sent. >> >> I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure >> where to start. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 10:07:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:07:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as > folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if > you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to > process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the >> silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 31 10:13:53 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:13:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many others. Arthur On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby wrote: > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 31 10:23:35 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:23:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> Hi John, If downloading is an issue, you might want to look at Outlook Evader again. For a c# windows form app, it is installed as a single file in your project: vbMAPI.cs or vbMAPI_cs4.cs (depending on your VS version). http://www.everythingaccess.com/vbmapi/csharptips.htm Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such > as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, > so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you > are trying to process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 31 10:31:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:31:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> All my customers are corporate, and they all use Outlook. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many others. Arthur On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby wrote: > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue May 31 11:24:20 2011 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:24:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> John, I do use Redemption but not any of the features you are trying to use. Have you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond whenever I've had questions. Doris Manning Senior Developer/Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [dba-VB] redemption We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:36:12 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:36:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, I am setting up an automated system for: 1) Receive an email with an Excel attachment 2) Strip the attachment, create a directory and place the attachment into it. 3) Create a SQL Server database (temporary) 4) Import a list of zips in each page of the spreadsheet into a matching table in the database 5) Count the household / population in those zips 6) generate an email back out with the counts in the body of the email. The objective is that the client sends an email that matches strict criteria (Count name in the subject, files have count name pattern in the file name etc) and have the system automatically pick up the email (pull it into the server), get the attachment and process it. I went looking and all I could find for automating GMail was web crapola, IOW if you wanted to do stuff with it on your web site. I need it on my server. I am not using outlook per se, I am trying to get an object that is a POP or CDO or whatever. Something that will pull data into a email store local to my computer that I can manipulate. No one spoke up when I asked how to do this. Now everyone has an opinion. OTOH I have actual running code that does this now, so opinions at this point do me no good. I already paid to develop this. I have a business to run, you know? When I ask and get no response I go figure it out myself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 11:13 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I > just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current > preference being gmail, but there are many others. > > Arthur > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >> We are using the free version of Redemption. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:37:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:37:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE5194B.2010109@colbyconsulting.com> Dan, See my response to Arthur. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 11:23 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > Hi John, > > If downloading is an issue, you might want to look at Outlook Evader again. > For a c# windows form app, it is installed as a single file in your project: > vbMAPI.cs or vbMAPI_cs4.cs (depending on your VS version). > > http://www.everythingaccess.com/vbmapi/csharptips.htm > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ > > The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: >> What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption >> >> Mark, >> >> > I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years ago. >> >> And that works well when it works well. >> >> In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such >> as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop > up. >> Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, >> so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you >> are trying to process... >> >> We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better > fit. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >>> Hello John, >>> >>> I also used a program named >>> ClickYes a few years >>> ago. >>> >>> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >>> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >>> >>> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >>> >>> Mark >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:38:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:38:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] redemption In-Reply-To: <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <4DE51995.7040006@colbyconsulting.com> >Have you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond whenever I've had questions. Not yet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 12:24 PM, Doris Manning wrote: > John, > > I do use Redemption but not any of the features you are trying to use. Have > you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond > whenever I've had questions. > > Doris Manning > Senior Developer/Database Administrator > Hargrove Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [dba-VB] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security > nonsense. We are using the > RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was > missing the mail.subject > property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the > MailReceived event never > fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to > download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was > moved to. IOW if we move > a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were > put into, the collection > doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, > *then* back in our code the > folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 31 13:49:22 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:49:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002d01cc1fc3$74feef50$5efccdf0$@cox.net> VB.Net has some nice classes to send email, but as far as I can tell nothing to receive it. I use the mail classes in several desktop apps and web sites. Your quest made me curious so I did a brief search. This link sounds like it addresses some of the same issues your facing; http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/programming-life/reading-email-using-mapi-in-vbn et-5855. I have no knowledge of using Redemption from .NET but this guy apparently has it working. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such > as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, > so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you > are trying to process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue May 31 14:51:34 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Wow... this almost looks like an email from me to JWC... did you start drinking rational juice lately or something John? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 15:06:21 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:06:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> John, My point and my only point was that the problem John was facing exactly illustrated the differences of a true Pk and what everyone calls a PK. In regards to surrogates, the dictionary definition of a "surrogate" means "to take the place of". If John adds an auto number to his table, is he not still faced with the exact same problem; how to distinguish one patient from another? Yes. Adding an auto number does nothing to solve that problem. If that auto number is called "PatientID" and is given to the person, is it now a surrogate? Yes. It has meaning and can no longer be reassigned at will. That is a surrogate key and can function as a PK. <> Boy, you missed the point of that question (it was not a statement). I wondered "which one of us uneducated?". The implication was that: 1. Either you because you care less about the theory and simply do things "because it works". 2. Or myself because I care about the theory even though at the end of the day, I still live in the real world and end up doing the same things as you do. In other words, I was questioning myself. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 15:35:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:35:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE55101.9040000@colbyconsulting.com> > In other words, I was questioning myself. LOL, nice save. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > My point and my only point was that the problem John was facing exactly > illustrated the differences of a true Pk and what everyone calls a PK. > > In regards to surrogates, the dictionary definition of a "surrogate" means > "to take the place of". > > If John adds an auto number to his table, is he not still faced with the > exact same problem; how to distinguish one patient from another? Yes. > Adding an auto number does nothing to solve that problem. If that auto > number is called "PatientID" and is given to the person, is it now a > surrogate? Yes. It has meaning and can no longer be reassigned at will. > That is a surrogate key and can function as a PK. > > < which that metaphor came, > though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself > uneducated!>> > > Boy, you missed the point of that question (it was not a statement). I > wondered "which one of us uneducated?". The implication was that: > > 1. Either you because you care less about the theory and simply do things > "because it works". > > 2. Or myself because I care about the theory even though at the end of the > day, I still live in the real world and end up doing the same things as you > do. > > > In other words, I was questioning myself. > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > Jim, > > >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a > primary key cannot change. > > First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model > but I will just give > you that one. No contest. > > Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: > > Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for > your hand to be counted > as up, you need to respond saying something like: > > Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care > that nothing in any > paper says... etc etc. > > Just for the record, my hand is not up. > > Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, > only that it causes > enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the > business rules defining the > field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. > Add one field to the > required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. > > Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your > academic friends. They will > all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. > > I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better > damned well not call it the > PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well > not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we > could avoid this absolutely > silly conversation yet another time. > > So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call > this "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. > > We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, > better damned well not > call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. > Click on the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and > click the PK little > golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, > better damned well not call > it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer > to that as the PK. > > We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing > happens. Click the > little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well > not call it the PK > around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. > > *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name > for the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. > > Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your > professor friends call it the > PK, and leave it alone. > > I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. > > And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. > > Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I > am going to. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key > > There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: > > Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) > A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is > internally generated by > the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. > Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) > A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate > is internally generated > by the system and is invisible to the user or application. > > http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 > > A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. > > It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for > the primary key to the > table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique > for each row in the table. > > http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm > http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html > > 1. Common Key Terminology > > Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and > then work through an > example. These terms are: > > * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify > an entity. In a > physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose > value(s) uniquely > identifies a row within a relational table. > * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more > attributes. > * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already > exist in the real world. > For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that > is unique to them (this > isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN > could be used as a > natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming > the scope of your > organization is limited to the U.S.). > * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. > * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have > zero or more candidate > keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't > believe in identifying > candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if > we only interact with > American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type > and the combination of > name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a > second candidate key. > Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to > be chosen as the primary > key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical > data model. > * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. > * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique > identifier of a row > within a table. > * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that > represents a key, either > primary or secondary, in another entity type. > > I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely > the above set of terms. > > Since every key uniquely identifies the row... > > The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the > fewest potential problems, > actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The > word Primary (I assume) was > selected because it is just that. > > As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) > relational model, and in > fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is > verboten in the > relational model. > > As if I care. > > The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real > world and we end up > with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate > keys were invented > because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely > unnecessary to actually use a > natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where > surrogate keys are verboten). > > You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we > wouldn't have surrogate > keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". > > Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which > that metaphor came, > though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself > uneducated! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> <> dependant on data. For db system use only>> >> >> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is >> exactly opposite of what you describe. >> >> John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a > while >> back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or > a >> pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how >> to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, > John >> is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which >> identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. >> >> That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every > row >> (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational >> terms is not a surrogate key. >> >> John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure > that a >> row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then >> more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). >> >> For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a >> pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to > create >> a unique index based on the PK. >> >> He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for >> performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can > lead >> to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the > end >> of the day, it may be required to get the job done. >> >> Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that >> shortcut. >> >> And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name >> change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for >> cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational >> model that says a primary key cannot change. >> >> Jim. From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 15:39:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:39:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> Message-ID: <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> Asgar, <> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is physically stored. That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. <> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. <> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, I don't want to reiterate this discussion but your comment puzzles me. I quite agree that an autonumber is not a primary key, but I would then hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be. So just to get you right I would like to know: Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a unique index on the autonumber field? And also: when implementing a foreign key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the autonumber key? If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then I disagree and we have a point of discussion. If not, I don't get the meaning in your comment. Then you are in accordance with Robert, and I suggest with most of us. The disagreement appears to me to be a matter of wording, or if you prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rls at WeBeDb.com Tue May 31 16:05:39 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:05:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A6AB3D3-7E49-4837-BB59-080EDAA371BE@holly.arvixe.com> Sorry Jim, but as John pointed out, you are not living in the real world. I am NOT going to use a composite natural key for a primary key. Why, well, for the same reason John would not. I am not going to tie up the database doing an update to hundreds of thousands of records if I change the natural key. If I use an IDENTITY (autonumber in MS Access), I never change it and do not have to contend with a cascading update. Check the definitions and then realize that you are talking about a logical model and not a physical implementation of that logical model. The absolute only time a composite natural key is valid for use is in the fact table of a data mart.warehouse. And, except in very rare occasions, depending on they type of dimensions you are building, you might cause an update of data. Head knowledge is nice for some things, but real live experience will beat out that any day. Robert At 02:51 PM 5/31/2011, you wrote: >Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman >Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 >Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > ><dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is >exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while >back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a >pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how >to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John >is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which >identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row >(an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational >terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a >row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then >more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a >pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create >a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for >performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead >to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end >of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that >shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name >change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for >cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational >model that says a primary key cannot change. > >Jim. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 16:08:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:08:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I understand your angst (though I do not participate in your angst). Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split the PK concept into: 1) Pointer 2) Unique index on a selected key. Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique index. Which of course is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) and the unique index can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK goes away. I embrace that with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both and cannot be split into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK is (at least when surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* more importantly, everybody that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception of you) uses word PK in the same manner as I do. Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor creating the unique index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as distinct from and not necessarily related to the pointer between records. >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We must select the pointer, and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were told by the world to call the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. What is Lead? 1) A metal 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. 3) The position out in front. We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. We are doing that here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the pointer and the selected key) the same name and you go ballistic. We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need to participate in the angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in your angst. Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Asgar, > > < hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the > *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> > > Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary > Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals > with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is > physically stored. > > That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one > states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in > database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly > design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table > represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then > all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the > "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a > physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. > > John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", > he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. > > < Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a > unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a foreign > key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto > number key?>> > > Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a > unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might > even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even > though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking > the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. > > But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If > you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. > > < prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a > *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> > > In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a > physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row > uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. > > Jim. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 31 16:22:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 07:22:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE55C1C.26.2762C907@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> So are mine, but I don't use it personally. I'ts Pegasus Mail for me personally - and has been for about 15 years :-) For email automation, I make sure that everything is client neutral, that's why I use things like Blat. -- Stuart On 31 May 2011 at 10:31, Dan Waters wrote: > All my customers are corporate, and they all use Outlook. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? > I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my > current preference being gmail, but there are many others. > > Arthur > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 31 16:31:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 07:31:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't recall you asking how to do this. It would be about an hour to develop a system to do it using a combination of Pegasus Mail, PowerBasic and SQLTools, and Blat. A few hours to do the whole thing as a single standalone application with PB/SQL Tools coding simple POP3 and SMTP client modules in the application. Most of the code required is already available either in the samples that come with the compiler on the forums at wwww.powerbasic.com :-) -- Stuart On 31 May 2011 at 12:36, jwcolby wrote: > Arthur, > > I am setting up an automated system for: > > 1) Receive an email with an Excel attachment > 2) Strip the attachment, create a directory and place the attachment > into it. 3) Create a SQL Server database (temporary) 4) Import a list > of zips in each page of the spreadsheet into a matching table in the > database 5) Count the household / population in those zips 6) generate > an email back out with the counts in the body of the email. > > The objective is that the client sends an email that matches strict > criteria (Count name in the subject, files have count name pattern in > the file name etc) and have the system automatically pick up the email > (pull it into the server), get the attachment and process it. > > I went looking and all I could find for automating GMail was web > crapola, IOW if you wanted to do stuff with it on your web site. I > need it on my server. > > I am not using outlook per se, I am trying to get an object that is a > POP or CDO or whatever. Something that will pull data into a email > store local to my computer that I can manipulate. > > No one spoke up when I asked how to do this. Now everyone has an > opinion. OTOH I have actual running code that does this now, so > opinions at this point do me no good. I already paid to develop this. > > I have a business to run, you know? When I ask and get no response I > go figure it out myself. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 11:13 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using > > Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior > > alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many > > others. > > > > Arthur > > > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, > > jwcolbywrote: > > > >> We are using the free version of Redemption. > >> > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 16:39:27 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:39:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <> Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I understand your angst (though I do not participate in your angst). Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split the PK concept into: 1) Pointer 2) Unique index on a selected key. Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique index. Which of course is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) and the unique index can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK goes away. I embrace that with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both and cannot be split into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK is (at least when surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* more importantly, everybody that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception of you) uses word PK in the same manner as I do. Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor creating the unique index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as distinct from and not necessarily related to the pointer between records. >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We must select the pointer, and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were told by the world to call the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. What is Lead? 1) A metal 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. 3) The position out in front. We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. We are doing that here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the pointer and the selected key) the same name and you go ballistic. We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need to participate in the angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in your angst. Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Asgar, > > < hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the > *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> > > Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary > Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals > with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is > physically stored. > > That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one > states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in > database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly > design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table > represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then > all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the > "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a > physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. > > John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", > he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. > > < Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a > unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a foreign > key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto > number key?>> > > Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a > unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might > even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even > though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking > the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. > > But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If > you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. > > < prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a > *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> > > In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a > physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row > uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 17:13:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 18:13:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DE567EC.8070203@colbyconsulting.com> Sad really. I have an entire system in C# and I am not going to go learn Pegasus mail, Power Basic, SQL Tools and Blat to do one small part of my system. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 5:31 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't recall you asking how to do this. > > It would be about an hour to develop a system to do it using a combination of Pegasus Mail, > PowerBasic and SQLTools, and Blat. > > A few hours to do the whole thing as a single standalone application with PB/SQL Tools > coding simple POP3 and SMTP client modules in the application. Most of the code required > is already available either in the samples that come with the compiler on the forums at > wwww.powerbasic.com :-) > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 17:14:18 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 18:14:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Just trying to get you to a shrink! We'd all be happier. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 5:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < need to participate in the > angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in > your angst.>> > > Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I > understand your angst > (though I do not participate in your angst). > > Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split > the PK concept into: > > 1) Pointer > 2) Unique index on a selected key. > > Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique > index. Which of course > is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) > and the unique index > can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK > goes away. I embrace that > with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! > > We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both > and cannot be split > into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK > is (at least when > surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* > more importantly, everybody > that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception > of you) uses word PK in > the same manner as I do. > > Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. > > Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor > creating the unique > index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as > distinct from and not > necessarily related to the pointer between records. > > >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and > it's the "PK". But > it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. > > Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We > must select the pointer, > and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were > told by the world to call > the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. > > What is Lead? > > 1) A metal > 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. > 3) The position out in front. > > We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. > We are doing that > here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the > pointer and the selected > key) the same name and you go ballistic. > > We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need > to participate in the > angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in > your angst. > > Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Asgar, >> >> <> hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the >> *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> >> >> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary >> Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals >> with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is >> physically stored. >> >> That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one >> states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in >> database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly >> design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table >> represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then >> all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the >> "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a >> physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. >> >> John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number > "PK", >> he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. >> >> <> Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create > a >> unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a > foreign >> key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto >> number key?>> >> >> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a >> unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It > might >> even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" > even >> though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking >> the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. >> >> But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If >> you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. >> >> <> prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a >> *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> >> >> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in > a >> physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row >> uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. >> >> Jim. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 31 20:15:27 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:15:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Yes, it is convenient to use an AutoNumber (or in SQL parlance Identity, or in Oracle parlance Sequence) to uniquely identify rows within a relation. Of course it is, and that's why most of us use it, but is it correct? Actually, I think not, atlthough sometimes it shall suffice: given the case of thousands of eggs hatched by hundreds of chickens daily, it may not make sense to give them Intelligent Keys, but given another case such as serial-numbered automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. I am not on one side or the other of this discussion. Rather, I am on both sides, and can see the sense in both sides of this discussion. When we are discussing eggs, autonumber may seem correct; when discussing fuel injectors, then serial numbers and batch numbers are important, and hence PKs should identify these objects intelligently, not autonumerically. A. On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:14 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Just trying to get you to a shrink! We'd all be happier. > > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 5:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> <> need to participate in the >> angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in >> your angst.>> >> >> Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions >> >> That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I >> understand your angst >> (though I do not participate in your angst). >> >> Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split >> the PK concept into: >> >> 1) Pointer >> 2) Unique index on a selected key. >> >> Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique >> index. Which of course >> is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or >> fields) >> and the unique index >> can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK >> goes away. I embrace that >> with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! >> >> We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is >> both >> and cannot be split >> into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the >> PK >> is (at least when >> surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* >> more importantly, everybody >> that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* >> exception >> of you) uses word PK in >> the same manner as I do. >> >> Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we >> do. >> >> Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, >> nor >> creating the unique >> index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as >> distinct from and not >> necessarily related to the pointer between records. >> >> >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number >> and >> it's the "PK". But >> it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. >> >> Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We >> must select the pointer, >> and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were >> told by the world to call >> the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. >> >> What is Lead? >> >> 1) A metal >> 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. >> 3) The position out in front. >> >> We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same >> word. >> We are doing that >> here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the >> pointer and the selected >> key) the same name and you go ballistic. >> >> We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no >> need >> to participate in the >> angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in >> your angst. >> >> Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >>> Asgar, >>> >>> <>> hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the >>> *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> >>> >>> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary >>> Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals >>> with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is >>> physically stored. >>> >>> That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one >>> states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in >>> database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly >>> design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table >>> represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But >>> then >>> all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's >>> the >>> "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a >>> physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. >>> >>> John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number >>> >> "PK", >> >>> he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. >>> >>> <>> Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then >>> create >>> >> a >> >>> unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a >>> >> foreign >> >>> key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the >>> auto >>> number key?>> >>> >>> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a >>> unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It >>> >> might >> >>> even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" >>> >> even >> >>> though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking >>> the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. >>> >>> But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. >>> If >>> you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. >>> >>> <>> prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a >>> *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> >>> >>> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in >>> >> a >> >>> physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row >>> uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. >>> >>> Jim. >>> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 22:07:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:07:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE5ACFF.3050906@colbyconsulting.com> > I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Hmm... I have to assume that there is some upper class / lower class thing going on here. You apparently count yourself in the upper class. >but given another case such as serial-numbered automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. LOL. No it doesn't. Reality still exists. Comparing a long integer PK to a long integer FK takes a single machine instruction. Comparing a 30 character serial number to another 30 character serial number takes eons (in computer time). Doing so a billion times requires some serious supercomputer power to solve a trivial problem that a surrogate never creates. Apparently some of us have never studied pattern matching algorithms and machine instructions... ;) Surrogates exist for many reasons. One of them is sheer speed. Why on God's green earth would I use a highly efficient surrogate in most cases and yet choose a grossly inefficient natural key just because it is "guaranteed to work and not cause problems" (in this one specific case). If a surrogate key doesn't work, then it should never be used. If it does work, then why would I not use it. Why would I be storing (and indexing) a 30 character string as my PK (and FK) instead of a long integer? Personally I think Codd would cringe at having his name used as a club to win such a silly argument. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 9:15 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you > (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Yes, it is > convenient to use an AutoNumber (or in SQL parlance Identity, or in Oracle > parlance Sequence) to uniquely identify rows within a relation. Of course it > is, and that's why most of us use it, but is it correct? Actually, I think > not, atlthough sometimes it shall suffice: given the case of thousands of > eggs hatched by hundreds of chickens daily, it may not make sense to give > them Intelligent Keys, but given another case such as serial-numbered > automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. > > I am not on one side or the other of this discussion. Rather, I am on both > sides, and can see the sense in both sides of this discussion. When we are > discussing eggs, autonumber may seem correct; when discussing fuel > injectors, then serial numbers and batch numbers are important, and hence > PKs should identify these objects intelligently, not autonumerically. > > A. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 22:37:58 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:37:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cray Unleashes XK6 Supercomputer with AMD's Next-Generation Opteron "Interlagos" and Nvidia Tesla - X-bit labs Message-ID: <4DE5B416.7030903@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, Thinking of you. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20110525224645_Cray_Unleashes_XK6_Supercomputer_with_Next_Generation_Opteron_Interlagos_and_Nvidia_Tesla.html The world needs more natural PKs. ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sun May 1 21:26:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:26:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: All, Background ? Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive. Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. Is there any ?Rule of Thumb? to consider in this decision (such as ?any accdr over X MB should be stored locally?). Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? Thanks, Brad From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 1 21:58:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 22:58:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background ? Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any ?Rule of Thumb? to consider in this decision (such as ?any accdr over X MB should be stored locally?). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 1 22:13:36 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 20:13:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: <63A8AD328AD54326B33AED5A7B6BD34F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Brad: My recommendations would be to centralize the front-end on a server and download a copy to each station when the user starts the application. As the FE module has no data it should load fast regardless. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 7:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? All, Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? Thanks, Brad From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 1 22:29:47 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:29:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 1 23:10:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 14:10:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBE2EC5.16457.E851ED2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Yep, that's what I do as well. -- Stuart On 1 May 2011 at 22:58, jwcolby wrote: > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces > and parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production > directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are > utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > > All, > > > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > > something to do this. > > > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is > > about 20 MB. > > > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that > > each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > > Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the > > local PC?s hard drive. > > > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures > > to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to > > initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > > > Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the > > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front > > End are released. > > > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 08:39:13 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 08:39:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 08:49:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 09:49:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Message-ID: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. Normally it is the other way around. The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 2 08:59:44 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:59:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: That's an odd one. Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. Normally it is the other way around. The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 09:13:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:13:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... PBKAC as so often happens. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > That's an odd one. > > Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. > > Lambert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. > > Normally it is the other way around. > > The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 2 09:28:49 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 10:28:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Ah yes. Context is everything. :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... PBKAC as so often happens. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > That's an odd one. > > Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. > > Lambert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. > > Normally it is the other way around. > > The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 10:15:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 11:15:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBECA99.6020306@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, yep. I was looking at code in Excel and simultaneously copying pieces into Access. I got confused where I was inserting the module and inserted it into Excel when I intended to insert it into Access. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 10:28 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah yes. Context is everything. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:14 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... > > PBKAC as so often happens. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> That's an odd one. >> >> Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. >> >> Lambert >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 >> >> How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. >> >> Normally it is the other way around. >> >> The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 2 11:46:07 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:46:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 12:37:04 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:37:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4dbeebc3.213e970a.73ee.5bc9@mx.google.com> Thanks, I'll look into it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Mon May 2 13:03:54 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:03:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tab control click event In-Reply-To: <88183A49169647A0A40576475839C469@HAL9005> References: <> <032a01cc01b0$c4a1c630$4de55290$@com> <4DB34AC5.14044.33121AEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <038701cc036c$c1856d40$449047c0$@com> <000c01cc038a$e12db120$a3891360$@cox.net> <88183A49169647A0A40576475839C469@HAL9005> Message-ID: <008d01cc08f3$4d6547a0$e82fd6e0$@com> Sorry, guys, just got back from a vacay and didn't see this. I'll try your suggestions. Thanx! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [Spam]8.51 Re: [AccessD] Tab control click event Come to think of it Doug, I did something like that on a tab form where I disappeared the tab and replaced it with a label, which looks nicer, you can format it, and has a Click event where you can do whatever and then set the focus to that page: Me.TabCtl140.Pages(1).SetFocus HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tab control click event Darrell, Why not use buttons to control the tab change and put the refresh code in the button on-click before you change the tab pages? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Tab control click event Howdy. I have a form with a tab control and multiple pages. I have to refresh the table bound to each page as it's clicked. I can do it with the Change event but then you see the table being deleted and refreshed and it looks clunky. What I'd like to do is capture the click or mouse-down event as the user selects a tab so I can do the refresh before the page changes. But none of seem to work. I've put a debug on both the click and mouse-down on the tab control, and on each page control, and I get nothing. Is there some other way of trapping the tab click before it changes? Thx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon May 2 13:41:27 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:41:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com><4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Message-ID: All, Thanks for the help and advice. I really appreciate it. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 2 15:26:34 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 16:26:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> Jim, Mines a little more simplistic then most as I rely on the user to actually execute the batch file, but below is one of the more complex ones I do. The version check is built-into the apps. At startup, I check a local table vs one that is in a copy of the FE up on the server. If the two don't match, I message the user and quit the app. They double click a short cut then to "update", which executes the batch stored on the server in the same location as the "master copy" of the FE. I've meant for a number of years to automate it a little more, but I've found that there is a lot of flexibility in the simplicity of it and just never seem to get around to it. HTH, Jim. ECHO OFF @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Checking for application directories... @ECHO. IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "H:" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%1" == "" GOTO DEFAULT SET HOMEDRIVE=%1 :DEFAULT @ECHO ON %HOMEDRIVE% CD\ @ECHO OFF if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Copying application files... @ECHO. COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.MDE" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.ICO" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\Update.ico" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\vbSendMail.dll" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\XYRLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\IDSLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Setting up environment... @ECHO. "P:\Traverse Custom\SetClientEnv.EXE" TM %HOMEDRIVE% "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom\vbsendmail.dll" /s rem rem Install mswinsck.ocx if local intall. If TS user this has already been done. rem rem rem ************ rem if NOT %HOMEDRIVE% == C: GOTO EXIT COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\mswinsck.ocx" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32" "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\MSWINSCK.OCX" /s :EXIT -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 09:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 15:27:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 16:27:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server - Append records without fail Message-ID: <4DBF13A9.9080503@colbyconsulting.com> In access you can append records into a table and if a given record fails, the rest go in. I use that as a quick and dirty filter sometimes when (for example) appending records from one place to another. AFAICT SQL Server will not append any of the records if any single record fails to append, which has always seemed strange to me. It's almost like an unrequested rollback. Is there any way to make SQL Server accept the appends that will go in and only reject the ones that will not for some reason? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 15:58:53 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 15:58:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> Message-ID: <4dbf1b10.1245960a.1dce.ffffc98a@mx.google.com> Thanks, I appreciate it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 3:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, Mines a little more simplistic then most as I rely on the user to actually execute the batch file, but below is one of the more complex ones I do. The version check is built-into the apps. At startup, I check a local table vs one that is in a copy of the FE up on the server. If the two don't match, I message the user and quit the app. They double click a short cut then to "update", which executes the batch stored on the server in the same location as the "master copy" of the FE. I've meant for a number of years to automate it a little more, but I've found that there is a lot of flexibility in the simplicity of it and just never seem to get around to it. HTH, Jim. ECHO OFF @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Checking for application directories... @ECHO. IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "H:" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%1" == "" GOTO DEFAULT SET HOMEDRIVE=%1 :DEFAULT @ECHO ON %HOMEDRIVE% CD\ @ECHO OFF if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Copying application files... @ECHO. COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.MDE" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.ICO" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\Update.ico" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\vbSendMail.dll" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\XYRLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\IDSLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Setting up environment... @ECHO. "P:\Traverse Custom\SetClientEnv.EXE" TM %HOMEDRIVE% "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom\vbsendmail.dll" /s rem rem Install mswinsck.ocx if local intall. If TS user this has already been done. rem rem rem ************ rem if NOT %HOMEDRIVE% == C: GOTO EXIT COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\mswinsck.ocx" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32" "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\MSWINSCK.OCX" /s :EXIT -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 09:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 2 19:30:02 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 10:30:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either under the start > programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. cheers Darryl ' **************************************************************************************************** ' Command line parameters. ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. ' This is also used for deriving paths. ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. ' ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client against ' the server version number in the version.txt. ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client along with ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other files to be copied to ' the client be scripted separately in the routine 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. ' ' **************************************************************************************************** Dim FS, FileStream dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, intParCount dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile dim copyTheFile Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) call launcher Set objShell = Nothing set FS = nothing sub launcher() on error resume next set args=wscript.arguments applicationName = args(0) sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder" & applicationName & "\" destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\" & applicationName & "\" ' Read the version text files and compare them. if FS.fileexists(destinationPath & "version.txt") then destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath & "version.txt") sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath & "version.txt") copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) else copyTheFile = true end if if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath & applicationname & ".mde") = false) then copyTheFile = true if copyTheFile then FS.CopyFile sourcePath & applicationName & ".mde", destinationPath FS.CopyFile sourcePath & "version.txt", destinationPath copyOtherSpecifiedFiles end if openFile: ' Run the mde. ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" objShell.Run Chr(34) & progToRun & Chr(34) & " " & Chr(34) & destinationPath & applicationName & ".mde" & Chr(34) end sub 'Read text file function GetFile(FileName) If FileName<>"" Then on error resume Next Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll End If End Function ' Copy other files as specified. function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() end function '------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 2 20:55:42 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 18:55:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. For all the information you may need see the following: http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either under the start > programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. cheers Darryl ' **************************************************************************** ************************ ' Command line parameters. ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. ' This is also used for deriving paths. ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. ' ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client against ' the server version number in the version.txt. ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client along with ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other files to be copied to ' the client be scripted separately in the routine 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. ' ' **************************************************************************** ************************ Dim FS, FileStream dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, intParCount dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile dim copyTheFile Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) call launcher Set objShell = Nothing set FS = nothing sub launcher() on error resume next set args=wscript.arguments applicationName = args(0) sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder" & applicationName & "\" destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\" & applicationName & "\" ' Read the version text files and compare them. if FS.fileexists(destinationPath & "version.txt") then destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath & "version.txt") sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath & "version.txt") copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) else copyTheFile = true end if if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath & applicationname & ".mde") = false) then copyTheFile = true if copyTheFile then FS.CopyFile sourcePath & applicationName & ".mde", destinationPath FS.CopyFile sourcePath & "version.txt", destinationPath copyOtherSpecifiedFiles end if openFile: ' Run the mde. ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" objShell.Run Chr(34) & progToRun & Chr(34) & " " & Chr(34) & destinationPath & applicationName & ".mde" & Chr(34) end sub 'Read text file function GetFile(FileName) If FileName<>"" Then on error resume Next Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll End If End Function ' Copy other files as specified. function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() end function '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 21:11:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 22:11:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that point you are sharing the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone is in it making it impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that > the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server > (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a > little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and > improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. > > For all the information you may need see the following: > http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 > > When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost > instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. > > This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. > > Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > > Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to > save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file > and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either > under the start> programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the > script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS > Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something > useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. > > cheers > Darryl > > > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > ' Command line parameters. > ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. > ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. > ' This is also used for deriving paths. > ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. > ' > ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client > against > ' the server version number in the version.txt. > ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client > along with > ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde > ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other > files to be copied to > ' the client be scripted separately in the routine > 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. > ' > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > > Dim FS, FileStream > dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, > intParCount > dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile > dim copyTheFile > > Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") > Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) > > call launcher > > Set objShell = Nothing > set FS = nothing > > sub launcher() > on error resume next > set args=wscript.arguments > > applicationName = args(0) > sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder"& applicationName& "\" > destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\"& applicationName& "\" > > ' Read the version text files and compare them. > if FS.fileexists(destinationPath& "version.txt") then > destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath& "version.txt") > sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath& "version.txt") > copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) > else > copyTheFile = true > end if > > if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath& applicationname& ".mde") = false) then > copyTheFile = true > > if copyTheFile then > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& applicationName& ".mde", destinationPath > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& "version.txt", destinationPath > copyOtherSpecifiedFiles > end if > > openFile: > ' Run the mde. > ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) > progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" > objShell.Run Chr(34)& progToRun& Chr(34)& " "& Chr(34)& destinationPath > & applicationName& ".mde"& Chr(34) > end sub > > > 'Read text file > function GetFile(FileName) > If FileName<>"" Then > > on error resume Next > Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) > GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll > End If > End Function > > ' Copy other files as specified. > function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() > end function > '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you > do it? > I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. > Would someone please post the script. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the > local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are > different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and > then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All > they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest > happens seamlessly in the background. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and > parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on > the server every time > they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and > only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. >> >> Currently no change control software, but we could put together something > to do this. >> >> We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 > MB. >> >> We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user > can have their own copy of the Front End. >> >> We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's > hard drive. >> >> Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to > release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate > the application when it is stored on the file server. >> >> Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are > released. >> >> Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any > accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). >> >> Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> >> >> From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 2 23:00:47 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:00:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: Hmmm, I see your concerns. The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed in Access97 so that dates it. :-) The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that point you are sharing the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone is in it making it impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that > the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server > (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a > little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and > improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. > > For all the information you may need see the following: > http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 > > When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost > instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. > > This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. > > Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > > Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to > save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file > and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either > under the start> programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the > script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS > Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something > useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. > > cheers > Darryl > > > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > ' Command line parameters. > ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. > ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. > ' This is also used for deriving paths. > ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. > ' > ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client > against > ' the server version number in the version.txt. > ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client > along with > ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde > ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other > files to be copied to > ' the client be scripted separately in the routine > 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. > ' > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > > Dim FS, FileStream > dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, > intParCount > dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile > dim copyTheFile > > Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") > Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) > > call launcher > > Set objShell = Nothing > set FS = nothing > > sub launcher() > on error resume next > set args=wscript.arguments > > applicationName = args(0) > sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder"& applicationName& "\" > destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\"& applicationName& "\" > > ' Read the version text files and compare them. > if FS.fileexists(destinationPath& "version.txt") then > destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath& "version.txt") > sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath& "version.txt") > copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) > else > copyTheFile = true > end if > > if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath& applicationname& ".mde") = false) then > copyTheFile = true > > if copyTheFile then > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& applicationName& ".mde", destinationPath > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& "version.txt", destinationPath > copyOtherSpecifiedFiles > end if > > openFile: > ' Run the mde. > ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) > progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" > objShell.Run Chr(34)& progToRun& Chr(34)& " "& Chr(34)& destinationPath > & applicationName& ".mde"& Chr(34) > end sub > > > 'Read text file > function GetFile(FileName) > If FileName<>"" Then > > on error resume Next > Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) > GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll > End If > End Function > > ' Copy other files as specified. > function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() > end function > '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you > do it? > I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. > Would someone please post the script. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the > local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are > different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and > then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All > they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest > happens seamlessly in the background. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and > parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on > the server every time > they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and > only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. >> >> Currently no change control software, but we could put together something > to do this. >> >> We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 > MB. >> >> We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user > can have their own copy of the Front End. >> >> We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's > hard drive. >> >> Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to > release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate > the application when it is stored on the file server. >> >> Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are > released. >> >> Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any > accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). >> >> Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 3 05:44:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 06:44:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is > locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) > Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the > clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on > to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server >> (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a >> little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue May 3 09:27:12 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 07:27:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. Charlotte Foust On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code below. > RTE is a long var. > code generates no errors up to the last line. > I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > any ideas?? > > > > 'populate the object variables > Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > CONNECT_STR) > conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) > DoEvents > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From RRANTHON at sentara.com Tue May 3 11:00:21 2011 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (RANDALL R ANTHONY) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 12:00:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Off the top of my head... Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. Charlotte Foust On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code below. > RTE is a long var. > code generates no errors up to the last line. > I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > any ideas?? > > > > 'populate the object variables > Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > CONNECT_STR) > conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) > DoEvents > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue May 3 11:12:47 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:12:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the > name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ?Someone else can > correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) >> DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 13:05:20 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:05:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Thanks again to all. dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, just a number that I know is good.... RTE is a long var. "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 The code generates no errors up to the last line. I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. Sure would like to figure this out.. Latest Code - not working: CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName 'populate the object variables Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, CONNECT_STR) conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ? > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >> True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From RRANTHON at sentara.com Tue May 3 13:12:50 2011 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (RANDALL R ANTHONY) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:12:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <201105031812.p43ICuxx025070@databaseadvisors.com> Dumb question, does the user account you're passing have EXEC permissions on the SQL end? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Thanks again to all. dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, just a number that I know is good.... RTE is a long var. "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 The code generates no errors up to the last line. I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. Sure would like to figure this out.. Latest Code - not working: CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName 'populate the object variables Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, CONNECT_STR) conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ? > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >> True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 13:49:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:49:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <99DF528B39914B08877C18911D346A83@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is > locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) > Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the > clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on > to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server >> (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a >> little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue May 3 14:16:11 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 07:16:11 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, >just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) >DoEvents >conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder >if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the >parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if >you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >> True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 3 14:36:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:36:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Message-ID: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 15:29:21 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:29:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 3 15:49:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 06:49:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If the parameter in the sp is some sort of string, as suggested by '" & "M" & "'", try conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & Trim$(RTE) & "'" i.e. embed RTE in single quotes and trim the leading space placeholder for "+/-" -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 11:05, b heygood wrote: > 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 3 15:55:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 06:55:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net>, <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Horsepucky. Most of my larger sites use Enterprise Licensing. All of their copies of Access have the same licence. -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 13:29, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized > that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different > license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 16:12:19 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:12:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <30A7B783CEB84966AF681BA1C6B4EC84@creativesystemdesigns.com> You are emphasizing " Enterprise Licensing " which rarely the situation when I come on site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Horsepucky. Most of my larger sites use Enterprise Licensing. All of their copies of Access have the same licence. -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 13:29, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized > that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different > license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 16:38:56 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:38:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <7243B4E2C72C458880EED1AC43BF9419@Seven> no, the parameter is a long integer. I just was trying various..... thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server If the parameter in the sp is some sort of string, as suggested by '" & "M" & "'", try conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & Trim$(RTE) & "'" i.e. embed RTE in single quotes and trim the leading space placeholder for "+/-" -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 11:05, b heygood wrote: > 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 16:40:57 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:40:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 3 16:48:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:48:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Transactions in Access Message-ID: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> Hi Jim, This is the code for transactions in Access. This shows just one procedure, where two different tables are affected. If your code is running through several procedures, where a total of 2 or more table operations are performed, then the transactions code should 'encapsulate' all of those procedures. If you are only performing an operation on one table, then your normal error handling method can pick up on that. A caveat - transactions will rollback where you are executing a SQL string (or using DoCmd.RunSQL), but not when you are changing values in a form, and not if you are changing values using a recordset. So, you must not have those data-changing operations within the code that is encapsulated by ws.BeginTrans and ws.EndTrans. I had to do a little 'refactoring', but it worked out. In addition, this will speed up your system. What happens is that none of the changes are actually 'committed' until you reach the ws.CommitTrans method, so a committed data change is done only once. So transactions can also be used as a method to speed up your application where you have multiple discrete table operations in a single code execution sequence. For Access transactions, the help files were pretty good. Hope this helps! '------------------------- Sub XXX Dim ws As Workspace '-- Some code Set ws = DBEngine(0) ws.BeginTrans On Error GoTo EH ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "DELETE ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "INSERT ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ws.CommitTrans dbForceOSFlush On Error GoTo 0 '-- More code XH: '-- Exit Here Set ws = Nothing Exit sub EH: '-- Error Handler ws.Rollback Call RollbackErrorMessage '-- Optional Resume XH End Sub '------------------------- Public Sub RollbackErrorMessage() Dim stgPrompt As String stgPrompt = "The action you just took was cancelled because the data changes could not be saved to the server. No changes have been saved - wait a few seconds and try again." _ & vbNewLine & vbNewLine _ & "This probably happened due to a multi-user data change conflict, but might have happened due to an error. If this happens frequently, contact your System Administrator.@ @" FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, stgPrompt, vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "No Changes Saved" Exit Sub ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Sub '------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue May 3 17:22:01 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 15:22:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> Message-ID: Bob, you might have already mentioned this, but... Can you open the query from the F11/database window? Does Access prompt you for the parameter? On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 PM, b heygood wrote: > no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything > to test. > No, just one parameter. > thx for responding. > > > bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > Bob, > > You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " > conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? > > If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to > the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. > Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. > Does it have more than 1 parameter? > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > New Zealand > > > > > At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: > >Thanks again to all. > > > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a > >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > > > >RTE is a long var. > >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 > >The code generates no errors up to the last line. > >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >Sure would like to figure this out.. > > > >Latest Code - not working: > > > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & > >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > > > >'populate the object variables > >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >True, > >CONNECT_STR) > >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute > >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" > >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > > > > >Bob Heygood > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly > >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't > recall. > >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I > >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name > >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the > >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > > > >wrote: > > > Off the top of my head... > > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > > parameter > >for an SP. > > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > > in > >some manner. > > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" > wrote: > > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > > >> code > > > below. > > >> RTE is a long var. > > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > >> > > >> any ideas?? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 'populate the object variables > > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > > >> CONNECT_STR) > > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > >> > > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 3 18:06:19 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:06:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> Message-ID: <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Thu May 5 09:45:38 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 07:45:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> Yes, the sp works on the server. I am checking on my user security level, tho my attachment / linking of tables is using the same user/pass data and successful. Sure would like to figure this out. thx to all who responded. Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 13:05:26 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:05:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) Message-ID: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> I work for Gwen, primarily doing genealogy. When there are computer issues while I'm here, she has me troubleshoot them too. Last week, day after her husband was burned over 27% of her body, one of her two printers broke and I had to run to store and get another. Old one HP OfficeJet Pro 8500, new one the next newer model, HP OfficeJet Pro 8500A. Even though mostly identical, the default name of old one in list of printers has a 909 in it and the new one has a 910 in it. Can't give you exact as I'm upstairs in my office and that computer/printer combo is downstairs in living room. I don't believe it's pertinent anyway. Point is they are almost identical. Now, on to the problem. Old database, I think originally Access 2000. Not a very professionally done one, but it works. Tons of names/addresses. More than a dozen reports for envelopes alone as there are different font, return address, and envelope size combinations for different purposes. Trying to print one gives a message to the effect of this was formatted for abc printer which isn't available do you want to print to default printer. After doing a bunch of Googling, I successfully opened one of the reports in design view, which along the way asked about the printer and I chose the new printer. Then saved the report. I can now print - HOWEVER. #10 envelope, it used to be: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| But now it's printing 3 envelopes like this -------------| Printing | | | | | | | | -------------| Then Addressee on next envelope and then a blank one. All I did was change the printer, so why did it change the orientation? How do I fix the whole db without having to change each report separately? I found a bunch of pages that talk about changing printers programmatically and other terms but they were all beyond my kindergarten skills of access. I'm fairly decent except when it comes to the visual basic stuff. Tables, queries using drag/drop, reports, I'm ok with, but not code. So remember that when you help. I can send a copy of the database if that would help, but of course you don't have our printers. It's 11am my time, I leave for home at 3pm (not back until Monday). Gwen's desperate as she has lots of envelopes to print to mail updates on husband's condition to those without email (he's in first skin graft surgery as I write). Handwriting them not an option as she's got post-polio and writing that many envelopes is problematic. Here's hoping one of you has a quick solution I can understand and act on. -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Thu May 5 15:05:00 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 08:05:00 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> Message-ID: <20110505200732.EUZ26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Bob, Have you tried running any other stored procedures using your code (even creating a simple one with no parameters)? David At 6/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Yes, the sp works on the server. > >I am checking on my user security level, tho my attachment / linking of >tables is using the same user/pass data and successful. > >Sure would like to figure this out. > >thx to all who responded. > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:06 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything >to test. >No, just one parameter. >thx for responding. > > >bob > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >Bob, > >You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " >conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? > >If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to >the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. >Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. >Does it have more than 1 parameter? > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >New Zealand > > > > >At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: > >Thanks again to all. > > > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a > >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > > > >RTE is a long var. > >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 > >The code generates no errors up to the last line. > >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >Sure would like to figure this out.. > > > >Latest Code - not working: > > > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & > >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > > > >'populate the object variables > >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >True, > >CONNECT_STR) > >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute > >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" > >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > > > > >Bob Heygood > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly > >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't >recall. > >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I > >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name > >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the > >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > > > >wrote: > > > Off the top of my head... > > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > > parameter > >for an SP. > > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > > in > >some manner. > > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > > >> code > > > below. > > >> RTE is a long var. > > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > >> > > >> any ideas?? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 'populate the object variables > > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > > >> CONNECT_STR) > > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > >> > > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 15:10:27 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:10:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> Message-ID: <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> Making progress. It looks like I will ultimately have to take care of things one report at a time, but that's doable. I can get the printer and the orientation to stick. That issue turned out to be that I have to save the report itself. Saving the database doesn't save the change in the report. However, there is still something wrong. Instead of printing this: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| It's eliminating the Return address and printing the Addressee at the top of the envelope like this: -----------------------| Addressee | | -----------------------| I didn't change anything on the layout itself, so don't know why that's happening. The only difference in the way the envelope goes in the printer is that it goes in the tray this way -------------| \ | \ | \ | \ | / | / | / | / | -------------| Instead of this way -------------| /| / | / | / | \ | \ | \ | \| -------------| On OT, John B suggested "Personally, since it's just a standard #10 envelope report, I'd just start over and create a new report to work with any printer". But I can't figure out how to make a new report based on a standard envelope. Haven't found a place to say "make a report based on #10". I always have to set the sizes of the page by dragging the margins, etc and futz around with it. How do you do it? I'd love to have a quick/easy way to do it, especially since I not only have the #10's but some A9's and A8's as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope#North_American_sizes -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu May 5 15:33:21 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:33:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Kathryn To set the layout to a #10 envelope, open a new report in design mode and select Page Setup from the File menu (I'm doing this in Access 2002, but A97 was the same AFIR). >From there select the Page tab, and choose #10 from the Paper Size combo. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 4:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) Making progress. It looks like I will ultimately have to take care of things one report at a time, but that's doable. I can get the printer and the orientation to stick. That issue turned out to be that I have to save the report itself. Saving the database doesn't save the change in the report. However, there is still something wrong. Instead of printing this: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| It's eliminating the Return address and printing the Addressee at the top of the envelope like this: -----------------------| Addressee | | -----------------------| I didn't change anything on the layout itself, so don't know why that's happening. The only difference in the way the envelope goes in the printer is that it goes in the tray this way -------------| \ | \ | \ | \ | / | / | / | / | -------------| Instead of this way -------------| /| / | / | / | \ | \ | \ | \| -------------| On OT, John B suggested "Personally, since it's just a standard #10 envelope report, I'd just start over and create a new report to work with any printer". But I can't figure out how to make a new report based on a standard envelope. Haven't found a place to say "make a report based on #10". I always have to set the sizes of the page by dragging the margins, etc and futz around with it. How do you do it? I'd love to have a quick/easy way to do it, especially since I not only have the #10's but some A9's and A8's as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope#North_American_sizes -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 16:36:14 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:36:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> Message-ID: <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but at least she'll be able to print them. -- Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 5 17:43:47 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 15:43:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> Check your margins. It sounds like the margin is set wider than the print stock so your getting an extra page. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but at least she'll be able to print them. -- Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Thu May 5 21:35:09 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:35:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> Message-ID: <007801cc0b96$383b92d0$a8b2b870$@net> I thought about that but the page setting is for #10 envelope. In properties, there's no place for margins. I tightened up things even with that, and it still didn't make a difference. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 3:44 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) > > Check your margins. It sounds like the margin is set wider than the print > stock so your getting an extra page. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:36 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) > > More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope > for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but > at least she'll be able to print them. > > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 5 21:58:04 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:58:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Transactions in Access In-Reply-To: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> References: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6AB8C63AF3C746518109B00DCE9EF845@creativesystemdesigns.com> Well Dan: I just keep learning things... Thanks for the information. Whether this knowledge finds a place in the old tool box we will have to wait and see. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Transactions in Access Hi Jim, This is the code for transactions in Access. This shows just one procedure, where two different tables are affected. If your code is running through several procedures, where a total of 2 or more table operations are performed, then the transactions code should 'encapsulate' all of those procedures. If you are only performing an operation on one table, then your normal error handling method can pick up on that. A caveat - transactions will rollback where you are executing a SQL string (or using DoCmd.RunSQL), but not when you are changing values in a form, and not if you are changing values using a recordset. So, you must not have those data-changing operations within the code that is encapsulated by ws.BeginTrans and ws.EndTrans. I had to do a little 'refactoring', but it worked out. In addition, this will speed up your system. What happens is that none of the changes are actually 'committed' until you reach the ws.CommitTrans method, so a committed data change is done only once. So transactions can also be used as a method to speed up your application where you have multiple discrete table operations in a single code execution sequence. For Access transactions, the help files were pretty good. Hope this helps! '------------------------- Sub XXX Dim ws As Workspace '-- Some code Set ws = DBEngine(0) ws.BeginTrans On Error GoTo EH ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "DELETE ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "INSERT ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ws.CommitTrans dbForceOSFlush On Error GoTo 0 '-- More code XH: '-- Exit Here Set ws = Nothing Exit sub EH: '-- Error Handler ws.Rollback Call RollbackErrorMessage '-- Optional Resume XH End Sub '------------------------- Public Sub RollbackErrorMessage() Dim stgPrompt As String stgPrompt = "The action you just took was cancelled because the data changes could not be saved to the server. No changes have been saved - wait a few seconds and try again." _ & vbNewLine & vbNewLine _ & "This probably happened due to a multi-user data change conflict, but might have happened due to an error. If this happens frequently, contact your System Administrator.@ @" FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, stgPrompt, vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "No Changes Saved" Exit Sub ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Sub '------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 08:51:13 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:51:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized Message-ID: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Hi, I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is resized. I have this code, on a test form. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Dim mbUnloading As Boolean Private Sub Form_Load() Debug.Print "Load" End Sub Private Sub Form_Resize() If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub Debug.Print "Resize" End Sub Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) Debug.Print "Unloading" mbUnloading = True End Sub The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times instead of twice? In fact, since multiple clicks of the command button that maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: Private Sub Form_Load() DoCmd.Maximize End Sub From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 6 12:27:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:27:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form is reopened. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > Hi, > > I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is > resized. I have this code, on a test form. > > Option Compare Database > Option Explicit > Dim mbUnloading As Boolean > > Private Sub Form_Load() > ? ? Debug.Print "Load" > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Resize() > ? ? If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub > ? ? Debug.Print "Resize" > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) > ? ? Debug.Print "Unloading" > ? ? mbUnloading = True > End Sub > > > The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the > form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the > resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. > But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word > "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is > running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? > > Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had > last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on > form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button > click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why > Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times > instead of twice? In fact, ?since multiple clicks of the command button that > maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me > that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should > be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: > ? ? ? ?Private Sub Form_Load() > ? ? ? ? ? ? DoCmd.Maximize > ? ? ? ?End Sub > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 16:17:31 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:17:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Charlotte .... I do not follow you. Since the application is calling the event an indeterminate number of times I don't know where to set the variable to True. And where to set it to False. I want the procedures to run once on Form Load and then again only any time the user changes the form size by any means EXCEPT merely deactivating and reactivating the form. I have struggled with this for hours. I did have a IgnoreResize variable which I would set to true in the Load event.... and then set to False before exiting Resize event. but because it passes through resize event up to three times when form is maxed then some unwanted repetitions happen. I think some of my code inside the Resize event that is altering the insidewidth, optimizing widths of certain controls, and proportioning distances between some controls is causing Resize to get called again. Not sure...very hard to debug. For example I use CreateForm to create a hidden form with a label that I can SizeToFit to assist with determining the optimal width of some controls on my other form that got resized by the user or on Load. This causes my main form to be deactivated I suppose, triggering the Resize event on the main form. Again ....hard to know what the code is doing to form focuses in the runtime because I can't get the same behaviors I'm debug mode than when not debugging. I am soon to skip the whole resize event and add a button for optimizing form insidewidth and the position of controls. I am just too inexperienced and impatient. On May 6, 2011 1:29 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: > Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last > window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes > through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading > variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set > when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where > you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. > Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form > is reopened. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) > wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is >> resized. I have this code, on a test form. >> >> Option Compare Database >> Option Explicit >> Dim mbUnloading As Boolean >> >> Private Sub Form_Load() >> Debug.Print "Load" >> End Sub >> >> Private Sub Form_Resize() >> If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub >> Debug.Print "Resize" >> End Sub >> >> Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) >> Debug.Print "Unloading" >> mbUnloading = True >> End Sub >> >> >> The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the >> form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the >> resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. >> But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word >> "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is >> running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? >> >> Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had >> last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on >> form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button >> click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why >> Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times >> instead of twice? In fact, since multiple clicks of the command button that >> maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me >> that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should >> be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: >> Private Sub Form_Load() >> DoCmd.Maximize >> End Sub >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Fri May 6 17:00:44 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:00:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Message-ID: Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 17:53:53 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 18:53:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 6 19:50:19 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:50:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Set the variable to False in the Open event, then set it to true in the resize event. Test for the value in the resize event and if it's false, run the code and set it to true. Is that clearer? I'm assuming you only want to call this when the form first loads, not if the user resizes it. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:17 PM, William Benson wrote: > Hi Charlotte .... > I do not follow you. Since the application is calling the event an > indeterminate number of times I don't know where to set the variable to > True. And where to set it to False. > > I want the procedures to run once on Form Load and then again only any time > the user changes the form size by any means EXCEPT merely deactivating and > reactivating the form. > > I have struggled with this for hours. I did have a IgnoreResize variable > which I would set to true in the Load event.... and then set to False before > exiting Resize event. but because it passes through resize event up to three > times when form is maxed then some unwanted repetitions happen. > > I think some of my code inside the Resize event that is altering the > insidewidth, optimizing widths of certain controls, and proportioning > distances between some controls is causing Resize to get called again. Not > sure...very hard to debug. For example I use CreateForm to create a hidden > form with a label that I can SizeToFit to assist with determining the > optimal width of some controls on my other form that got resized by the user > or on Load. This causes my main form to be deactivated I suppose, triggering > the Resize event on the main form. Again ....hard to know what the code is > doing to form focuses in the runtime because I can't get the same behaviors > I'm debug mode than when not debugging. > > I am soon to skip the whole resize event and add a button for optimizing > form insidewidth and the position of controls. I am just too inexperienced > and impatient. > On May 6, 2011 1:29 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: >> Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last >> window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes >> through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading >> variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set >> when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where >> you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. >> Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form >> is reopened. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is >>> resized. I have this code, on a test form. >>> >>> Option Compare Database >>> Option Explicit >>> Dim mbUnloading As Boolean >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Load() >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Load" >>> End Sub >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Resize() >>> ? ? If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Resize" >>> End Sub >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Unloading" >>> ? ? mbUnloading = True >>> End Sub >>> >>> >>> The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the >>> form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the >>> resize event is called only once according to the immediate window > results. >>> But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word >>> "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is >>> running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? >>> >>> Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form > had >>> last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times > on >>> form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a > button >>> click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why >>> Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times >>> instead of twice? In fact, ?since multiple clicks of the command button > that >>> maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to > me >>> that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize > should >>> be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: >>> ? ? ? ?Private Sub Form_Load() >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? DoCmd.Maximize >>> ? ? ? ?End Sub >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sat May 7 04:42:31 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 19:42:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Message-ID: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 7 06:22:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 07:22:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC52B81.8070507@colbyconsulting.com> Are you sure the stack overflow is occurring in this function? IOW if you don't do this count do you eventually get the stack overflow? If so then my guess is a follows: Local variables inside of a function are placed on the stack. In this case the local variable that could be giving you problems is the F as string. What may be happening is that this F is getting extremely long and filling up the stack. Make F global. Doing so will force VBA to place the variable on the heap which is essentially infinite, and thus the size of F can grow as big as needed. Can you use the File System Object? This is an object that represents the file system of the computer. Using that would allow you to directly get the count of files in the directory object. Unfortunately in many cases the FSO is not available if tight security has been implemented. Check it out though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/7/2011 5:42 AM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just > want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some > occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer > window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have > a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually > run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder& "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f)<> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow > errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat May 7 07:36:11 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 07:36:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <000f01cc0cb3$591528e0$0b3f7aa0$@comcast.net> Whenever I do anything file related, I include a DoEvents method - like this: Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ DoEvents Loop I've solved a lot of issues this way. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren - Active Billing Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:43 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 7 14:42:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 12:42:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <818FFDBFCF624C11BD68366986E5CA9C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Darren: Do any of your calls open objects but do not close them and set them to nothing on exiting the function or subroutine? If this is the case then you could have a stack over-flow. The only other reason I can think of is if you are assigning too much data to a specific variable or object. Note: I have found application objects very prone to stack over-flows and other bizarre activities if not handled just right. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren - Active Billing Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 2:43 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 7 15:18:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 06:18:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC5A92D.8351.DAE0371@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is repeatedly calling that sub. I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! -- Stuart On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I > just want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on > some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an > Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that > (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I > eventually run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f) <> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack > Overflow errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun May 8 20:47:48 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 11:47:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder - solved Message-ID: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> Hi guys Thanks for the responses. I rejigged it all - especially taking note of what Stuart said about the issue being in the loop not the call I also got some of the math done at the start point and held them in globals rather than doing the all the math each time in the loop And it's all good So it seems the logic and methods were (kinda) ok - the placement and order of them was not Many thanks for your ideas and pointers Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, 8 May 2011 6:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is repeatedly calling that sub. I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! -- Stuart On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I > just want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on > some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an > Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that > (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I > eventually run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f) <> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack > Overflow errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 09:39:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 10:39:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder - solved In-Reply-To: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> References: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC7FCBD.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Glad you got it working. Thanks for reporting back. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/8/2011 9:47 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > Thanks for the responses. > I rejigged it all - especially taking note of what Stuart said about the > issue being in the loop not the call > I also got some of the math done at the start point and held them in globals > rather than doing the all the math each time in the loop > And it's all good > So it seems the logic and methods were (kinda) ok - the placement and order > of them was not > Many thanks for your ideas and pointers > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, 8 May 2011 6:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder > > Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is > repeatedly calling that sub. > I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! > > -- > Stuart > > On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help >> >> We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I >> just want to count them during the process. >> >> I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. >> >> I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on >> some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. >> >> Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an >> Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. >> >> Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that >> (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). >> >> Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I >> eventually run into stack overflows. >> >> Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. >> >> >> >> Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) >> >> Dim f As String >> >> Dim c As Long >> >> >> >> f = Dir$(strPathFolder& "*.xml") >> >> >> >> Do While Len(f)<> 0 >> >> c = c + 1 >> >> f = Dir$ >> >> Loop >> >> >> >> End sub >> >> >> >> I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack >> Overflow errors. >> >> I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 >> seconds to update the progress bar. >> >> But it looks like this is not going to be possible >> >> Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? >> Thanks heaps in advance team >> Darren >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 09:55:10 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:55:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SusanAccessD at azmom.com Mon May 9 10:42:18 2011 From: SusanAccessD at azmom.com (SusanAccessD at azmom.com) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 08:42:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 9 10:51:54 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 11:51:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 12:07:54 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 12:07:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com><003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: Well Thanks guys and gals. We couldn't get the SQL instructions to work it kept returning Object not found "Select * From, Project Month And Year" However somehow I tried this MonthStartDate = DLookup("[MonthStartDate]", (cstrQryName)) MonthEndDate = DLookup("[MonthEndDate]", (cstrQryName)) And I got it to work. I had tried it before but must have had something just not right. I have been working on this for two days. I changed the variables to MSD and MED jut to see if they were extracted from the table. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 9 12:18:24 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:18:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com><003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the spaces in the query name. Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 1:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Well Thanks guys and gals. We couldn't get the SQL instructions to work it kept returning Object not found "Select * From, Project Month And Year" However somehow I tried this MonthStartDate = DLookup("[MonthStartDate]", (cstrQryName)) MonthEndDate = DLookup("[MonthEndDate]", (cstrQryName)) And I got it to work. I had tried it before but must have had something just not right. I have been working on this for two days. I changed the variables to MSD and MED jut to see if they were extracted from the table. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 12:22:56 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:22:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 13:31:36 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:31:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 15:21:58 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:21:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003901cc0e86$c051e1e0$40f5a5a0$@gmail.com> >>a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. A fiscal calendar table is the way to go. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 9 15:47:51 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:47:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Message-ID: Hi Steve If so, these functions may be useful for you: Public Function DateWeekFirst( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the first date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekFirst = DateAdd("d", vbSunday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function Public Function DateWeekLast( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the last date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekLast = DateAdd("d", vbSaturday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function /gustav >>> sturner at mseco.com 09-05-2011 20:31 >>> Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 16:50:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 07:50:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Advice to young developers: Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. :-) -- Stuart On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > spaces in the query name. > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > Lambert :-) > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 16:54:43 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:54:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , , <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thanks good advice. I normally don't. Jut did on this. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 4:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Advice to young developers: Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. :-) -- Stuart On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > spaces in the query name. > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > Lambert :-) > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon May 9 16:54:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 14:54:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: So true! Let's not forget naming fields "Date, Month, Year" and "Name" :) D On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it > WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > > spaces in the query name. > > > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > > > Lambert :-) > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 16:55:57 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:55:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Gustav We will keep and try this out. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 3:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Hi Steve If so, these functions may be useful for you: Public Function DateWeekFirst( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the first date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekFirst = DateAdd("d", vbSunday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function Public Function DateWeekLast( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the last date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekLast = DateAdd("d", vbSaturday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function /gustav >>> sturner at mseco.com 09-05-2011 20:31 >>> Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 17:35:51 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 18:35:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000501cc0e99$740101f0$5c0305d0$@gmail.com> And Value and Index... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help So true! Let's not forget naming fields "Date, Month, Year" and "Name" :) D On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was > > the spaces in the query name. > > > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > > > Lambert :-) > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 17:40:10 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 18:40:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor Message-ID: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code for in Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no problem." Well, it kinda is. One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control write code such as Ctrl.Top (there is no "Top" property associated with every single Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went back to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. Is this a setting that can be banished? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 18:18:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:18:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 9 18:32:10 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:32:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3F42E714F91E4588A82B867C764EE25D@XPS> Steve, A query def simply represents a stored SQL statement. So you can do this: 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) If rstEnd.EOF then MSD = Null MED = Null Else MED = rstEnd![MonthStartDate] MED = rstEnd![MonthEndDate] End If rstEnd.Close Set rstEnd = Nothing Or this: strSQL = "SELECT * FROM ;" Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(strSQL) If rstEnd.EOF then MSD = Null MED = Null Else MED = rstEnd![MonthStartDate] MED = rstEnd![MonthEndDate] End If rstEnd.Close Set rstEnd = Nothing Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 9 19:18:18 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 10:18:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 9 19:43:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 17:43:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5C3DF38D939247C59F8F1099EC2ACF82@HAL9005> I was warned off them when I first joined this list in A97 days - all domain functions actually because they were so much slower than opening a recordset either filtered or using FindFirst to get a value, and then closing it. I use them now to look up things in local tables or on linked tables in places in the code where I know it will not be in a loop with lots of iterations - like retrieving a value from a preferences table. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 9 20:21:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 20:21:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also installed? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 20:37:44 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:37:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com>, <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DC896E8.16313.E6400@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Installed, yes. In use, no. Many people use non MS email clients even though they are using Word, Excel etc. On 9 May 2011 at 20:21, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is > also installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 20:44:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:44:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> More info required. Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. Just about every email client uses a different format for storing retreived. On 9 May 2011 at 19:18, jwcolby wrote: > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 9 20:57:35 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:57:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC896E8.16313.E6400@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105100157.p4A1vgon017650@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Maybe not even installed anymore if they are using the newer versions of Office. For several options of the Office Suites you need to purchase MS Outlook seperately now (same with MS Access). I can't speak for everyone, but at this point I gave up on MS Outlook and now use Thunderbird instead. Can't really see any upside to paying extra mulla for an Email client & Calendar I don't use much anyway. If it was included I would have kept using it but now it is not even installed on my windows 7 PC. Of course other folks may find more value with continuing to use MS Outlook and are prepared to pay the money (It was about $100 AUD last time I looked, but that was a while back now), but it is likely to be less of a 'given' now included as a default software package in all Office Suites. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] POP mail automation Installed, yes. In use, no. Many people use non MS email clients even though they are using Word, Excel etc. On 9 May 2011 at 20:21, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is > also installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 21:21:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:21:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DC8A12C.10005@colbyconsulting.com> > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also installed? Nope. I am setting up an Access runtime, and Outlook is not included AFAICT. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/9/2011 9:21 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also > installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now > need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is > that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's > machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 21:29:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:29:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DC8A318.3060000@colbyconsulting.com> > Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. Well, it really depends on what I am doing. I think pull down the emails and allow Access to "read them". Just as an example one client will be sending out email to volunteers working an event. I would like to set up some sort of "opt-out" where they could reply with a code in the subject which would cause me to remove them from the list. In other cases I might send out a word document which the user could open and fill out and then return. I have never done either of these things so I am not exactly sure where I can take this. Basically I need to be able to pull in emails into a lightweight automatable client and do things with them. I automate Outlook for clients, but I cannot be certain that the user of any given app will own outlook. At a minimum I would like to be able to read the from, subject and also see attachments. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/9/2011 9:44 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > More info required. > > Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access > application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. > > Just about every email client uses a different format for storing retreived. > > > > On 9 May 2011 at 19:18, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small >> e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but >> I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. >> The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is >> running on the user's machine. >> >> Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from >> Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing >> list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon May 9 23:39:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 21:39:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor In-Reply-To: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> References: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Why are you trying to write code using a property that doesn't apply to the generic object? If you wait until you set the control object to a particular kind of control that has a Top property, your code will work. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:40 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code for in > Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no problem." Well, > it kinda is. > > One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control write > code such as > > Ctrl.Top ? ? ?(there is no "Top" property associated with every single > Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing > Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went back > to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. > > Is this a setting that can be banished? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 10 01:32:47 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 02:32:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor In-Reply-To: References: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000a01cc0edc$14b56d10$3e204730$@gmail.com> My code traditionally includes loops like For each ctrl in Controls If TypeOf Ctrl is Access.CommandButton then If Ctrl.Caption like "ButtonsOnRightOfForm*" then Set Btn = Ctrl 'Do something based on the .Left property of the Button But frequently I take a shortcut and just use If TypeOf Ctrl is Access.CommandButton then If Ctrl.Caption like "ButtonsOnRightOfForm*" then 'Do something based on the .Left property of Ctrl Anyway, my question about the VBE still hangs out there if you or another has an answer... it is a different behavior between 2010 and 2003 unless it involves an Option in the VBE which I do not know about. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor Why are you trying to write code using a property that doesn't apply to the generic object? If you wait until you set the control object to a particular kind of control that has a Top property, your code will work. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:40 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code > for in Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no > problem." Well, it kinda is. > > One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control > write code such as > > Ctrl.Top ? ? ?(there is no "Top" property associated with every single > Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing > Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went > back to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. > > Is this a setting that can be banished? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From palodurogrowers at suddenlink.net Tue May 10 08:30:24 2011 From: palodurogrowers at suddenlink.net (Tim Thiessen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:30:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I used to be a member but have been off for several years because of job changes. I can't seem to get to the archives. Are they still available? I'm looking for information on using Access with Quickbooks. Tim Thiessen From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 08:43:41 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:43:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Darryl I've never had any issue with DLookup, and it is not true that it is slow. It can be slow, but so can opening and searching a recordset be. Indeed in reports, speed often is of minor importance. That said, I don't use it that much, but here and there it provides a quick and simple solution. Like everything else it can be abused, and that seems to be the case in your application. /gustav >>> Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au 10-05-2011 02:18 >>> Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 10 08:46:41 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 09:46:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 08:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 08:54:22 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:54:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Darryl Jim is right, such constructions are awful. But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in one call indeed is possible, like: =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 09:56:59 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 16:56:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: Hi John You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp Example code for reading headers only: http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18 >>> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 10 12:03:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 13:03:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> It is inexpensive. Have you used it? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/10/2011 10:56 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: > > http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp > > Example code for reading headers only: > http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18>>> > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured > out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail > account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the > user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 12:51:33 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:51:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Hi All I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to do a multiple LIKE selection from Access XP ie in the query criteria [Status] LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting a syntax error from the ODBC driver Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, any help greatly appreciated..... TIA Robin Lawrence From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue May 10 12:57:22 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 12:57:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses % instead of the asterisk. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi All I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to do a multiple LIKE selection from Access XP ie in the query criteria [Status] LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting a syntax error from the ODBC driver Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, any help greatly appreciated..... TIA Robin Lawrence -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 13:11:31 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 19:11:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue May 10 15:30:52 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 22:30:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue May 10 15:42:32 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 16:42:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> Message-ID: I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 16:27:11 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 22:27:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J><89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J><1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> Message-ID: <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> That's right Lambert, Some of us are still too lazy to write out the proper SQL :) Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pharold at cfl.rr.com Tue May 10 16:36:48 2011 From: pharold at cfl.rr.com (Perry Harold) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 17:36:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help References: , , <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: If you switch from Access to VB it hits you in the teeth almost immediately. Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it > WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > >> Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a >> Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the >> spaces in the query name. >> >> Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" >> >> You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" >> >> Lambert :-) >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue May 10 16:55:31 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 23:55:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J><89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J><1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <36D2F38B804645DF8175B0D5F79DF357@abpc> Happy to know my grammar was right ;-) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 23:27 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC That's right Lambert, Some of us are still too lazy to write out the proper SQL :) Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 10 17:03:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:03:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC9B623.17917.4706177@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And combining that technique with Split() to get the fields into an array for further use can make it even more useful. -- Stuart On 10 May 2011 at 15:54, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Darryl > > Jim is right, such constructions are awful. > But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in > one call indeed is possible, like: > > =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & > [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> > Darryl, > > All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, > which can > be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. > > Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL > statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot > optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you > should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. > > As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() > for > example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to > do something like this: > > =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & > lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " > & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] > = " & lngEmployeeID) > > If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better > off to > open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the > entire record. > > Jim. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 10 17:17:59 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:17:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201105102218.p4AMIPDJ018580@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks Everyone, Appreciate your thoughts and feedback. cheers Darryl ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock [Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Hi Darryl Jim is right, such constructions are awful. But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in one call indeed is possible, like: =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 11 01:31:10 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:31:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: Hi John Yes, I used it in a custom app back in 2005 with excellent result. The client ceased business some years ago so I haven't any recent experience with it. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 19:03 >>> It is inexpensive. Have you used it? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/10/2011 10:56 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: > > http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp > > Example code for reading headers only: > http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18>>> > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured > out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail > account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the > user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 11 01:35:09 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:35:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Stuart That's a nice tip! Never thought of that. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 11-05-2011 00:03 >>> And combining that technique with Split() to get the fields into an array for further use can make it even more useful. -- Stuart On 10 May 2011 at 15:54, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Darryl > > Jim is right, such constructions are awful. > But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in > one call indeed is possible, like: > > =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & > [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> > Darryl, > > All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, > which can > be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. > > Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL > statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot > optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you > should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. > > As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() > for > example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to > do something like this: > > =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & > lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " > & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] > = " & lngEmployeeID) > > If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better > off to > open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the > entire record. > > Jim. From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 08:02:57 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 06:02:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 09:35:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:35:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Hi Darrell, I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 11 09:43:31 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:43:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <> No. 32/64 bit versions of Office won't mix and match at all. You can run 32 bit Office under a 64 bit OS and most are doing that. The 64 bit version of Office has had issues, most of which is a lack of anything to support it (3rd party controls, ODBC drivers, etc). Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 09:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From erbachs at gmail.com Wed May 11 09:52:07 2011 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:52:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 10:17:34 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:17:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:25:33 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:25:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even knowing it. It's the business world that is slowly making the intentional conversion. This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. The computer market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. 64 bit processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that are just allowing 32 bit OSes. I am willing to bet that the next release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hi Darrell, I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From garykjos at gmail.com Wed May 11 10:33:56 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:33:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: From: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee681792.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The recommendations for which edition of Office 2010 to install are as follows: ----> If users in your organization depend on existing extensions to Office, such as ActiveX controls, third-party add-ins, in-house solutions built on previous versions of Office, or 32-bit versions of programs that interface directly with Office, we recommend that you install 32-bit Office 2010 (the default installation) on computers that are running both 32-bit and 64-bit supported Windows operating systems. ----> If some users in your organization are Excel expert users who work with Excel spreadsheets that are larger than 2 gigabytes (GB), they can install the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. In addition, if you have in-house solution developers, we recommend that those developers have access to the 64-bit edition of Office 2010 so that they can test and update your in-house solutions on the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GK On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. ?It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. ?The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. ?64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. ?I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. ?It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 11 10:34:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:34:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <35CFAF2A4CD24CD984EBDA17A4EFD9E5@XPS> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/choose-the-32-bit-or-64-bit-vers ion-of-microsoft-office-HA010369476.aspx Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:35:42 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:35:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:43:50 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:43:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com><015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Actually, I meant to put that exact link in my post, forgot too. What's key is the first part of the first paragraph: "Processors that are 64-bit are becoming the standard for systems that range from servers to desktop computers. The 64-bit systems can use more virtual and physical memory than 32-bit systems. This lets users work with much larger data sets than they could previously, and to analyze and solve large computational problems. Microsoft Office 2010 introduces native 64-bit versions of Microsoft Office products to take advantage of this larger capacity." That first sentence is an understatement. It's been the standard for years already. I have 2010 x64 installed on my home desktop (the one I described the build and upgrade process on OT). It runs great, but other than Outlook, I haven't used it much, because that machine is more of a server then a desktop to me. I just now, a few minutes ago, popped into my home machine to take a little deeper look at what Access 2010 was like....and it's still using the Access 2007 db format, so there are no db features taking advantage of 64 bit advantages. So Access 2010 is the 21st century equivalent of Access 95. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit From: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee681792.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The recommendations for which edition of Office 2010 to install are as follows: ----> If users in your organization depend on existing extensions to Office, such as ActiveX controls, third-party add-ins, in-house solutions built on previous versions of Office, or 32-bit versions of programs that interface directly with Office, we recommend that you install 32-bit Office 2010 (the default installation) on computers that are running both 32-bit and 64-bit supported Windows operating systems. ----> If some users in your organization are Excel expert users who work with Excel spreadsheets that are larger than 2 gigabytes (GB), they can install the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. In addition, if you have in-house solution developers, we recommend that those developers have access to the 64-bit edition of Office 2010 so that they can test and update your in-house solutions on the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GK On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. ?It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. ?The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. ?64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. ?I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. ?It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 10:58:50 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:58:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! In the meantime here we are in the "Office 95" era waiting for MS to figure it out and the rest of the world to catch up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 11:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. 64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 11:00:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:00:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? Message-ID: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From kismert at gmail.com Wed May 11 11:02:35 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:02:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: I personally hate all of the Microsoft email options. I've tried CDO, CDONTS, and MAPI, and all have crippling drawbacks. I finally found a WinSock-based VBA module that sends email with no fuss: no external references are required, just hooks to kernel32 and wsock32 dlls. But even this code isn't up to my standards, so I can't recommend it as a truly robust CDO alternative. Also worth noting: fake sendmail for windows http://glob.com.au/sendmail/ It's a command-line exe that you can shell out to send emails. Also, see the "alternatives" section. -Ken -----Original Message----- > From: jwcolby > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 11:03:43 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:03:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: LOL, so true! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! In the meantime here we are in the "Office 95" era waiting for MS to figure it out and the rest of the world to catch up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 11:17:20 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:17:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed May 11 11:22:32 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:22:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000d01cc0ff7$a31f7bb0$e95e7310$@comcast.net> I've been using Outlook Evader from everthingaccess.com for several months now. It 'evades' the email security message, and provides other features. In my system I can create an option for each user to say if they want emails saved into their Sent Items folder, or not! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] POP mail automation I personally hate all of the Microsoft email options. I've tried CDO, CDONTS, and MAPI, and all have crippling drawbacks. I finally found a WinSock-based VBA module that sends email with no fuss: no external references are required, just hooks to kernel32 and wsock32 dlls. But even this code isn't up to my standards, so I can't recommend it as a truly robust CDO alternative. Also worth noting: fake sendmail for windows http://glob.com.au/sendmail/ It's a command-line exe that you can shell out to send emails. Also, see the "alternatives" section. -Ken -----Original Message----- > From: jwcolby > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 11:37:09 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:37:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 11:44:17 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:44:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install?" Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 11 12:03:34 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:03:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> Message-ID: If you don't use a shortcut and the user double clicks the app, it will try to open using the installed version of Access, not the runtime. Charlotte Foust On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Darrell Burns wrote: > ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime > install?" > > > > Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? > > --DB > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > > > Darrell, > > > > If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? > > Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you > > install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file > > under your runtime install? > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > > package and it didn't work at their place. > > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > > abandon the 32-bit version. > > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > > > Thanx, > > DB > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 12:07:01 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:07:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 12:20:50 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:20:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> Message-ID: <008001cc0fff$d3405eb0$79c11c10$@cox.net> The Access runtime is a totally separate installation of a version of Access on a computer that is independent of any version of Access or office the user may have on the computer. If you don't have a shortcut that opens your application using the runtime version your going to have the problems your seeing. We install our Access 2002 runtime on many computers having various versions of Office on them or not. Our application runs in Access 2002, not whatever version of Access the user has. We install the Access runtime. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install?" Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 12:23:28 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:23:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 12:43:52 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:43:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 12:45:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:45:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: <008d01cc1003$3ab49040$b01db0c0$@cox.net> The purpose of Microsoft providing a runtime version of Access is to allow users without Access to run your app. You can also install the runtime version of Access on a computer that already has Access installed, any version. A properly installed runtime will operate completely independently of whatever other version of Access is on the computer, thus we can run Access 2002 on any Windows computer no matter what other versions of Access are on it. In your case you don't have to uninstall the clients Office 64, just install the Access 2007 runtime. See http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=d9ae78d9-9dc6-4b 38-9fa6-2c745a175aed&displaylang=en. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Wed May 11 12:49:13 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:49:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Well we have now. :-) A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. ??? I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 13:03:26 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:03:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: <000501cc1005$b9ab8b90$2d02a2b0$@winhaven.net> Darrell, the point of my question was (not knowing how large of a customer - how many installs - this is) that if they didn't have a specific reason, maybe they'd prefer to install the 32 bit version and avoid all the hassles. In that case, you'd look like a hero. Access isn't going to be the only 64 bit problem to present itself. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 13:06:21 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:06:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 14:12:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:12:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DCADF8B.4040502@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, many non-native English speakers don't write English all that well. OTOH I don't write anything except English so who am I to complain. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 1:49 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Well we have now. :-) > > A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual > > "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" > > So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. > > ??? > > I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? > > http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 14:16:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:16:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DCAE0A7.1020605@colbyconsulting.com> This appears to be an open source attempt to do a SVN integration with Access. I didn't download it yet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 1:49 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Well we have now. :-) > > A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual > > "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" > > So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. > > ??? > > I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? > > http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 14:44:01 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:44:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 11 15:08:31 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 06:08:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: , <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net>, Message-ID: <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Imagine? I don't have to. :-) I've had Quad Integers (64bit) and Currency (64 bit - 4 decimal places) and Extended Currency( larger range, 2 decimal places) in PowerBasic for years. -- Stuart On 11 May 2011 at 10:35, Drew Wutka wrote: > What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better > than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go > beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck > with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database > version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X > controls, > etc. > > I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so > I canned it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > John, > > >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use > >> it. > > >> << > > Fascinating. Why is that? > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow > wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit > Office. Microsoft does > > > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > > 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app > > runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > > > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > > can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both > > worlds with just one version? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 15:33:19 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:33:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net>, <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Imagine? I don't have to. :-) I've had Quad Integers (64bit) and Currency (64 bit - 4 decimal places) and Extended Currency( larger range, 2 decimal places) in PowerBasic for years. -- Stuart On 11 May 2011 at 10:35, Drew Wutka wrote: > What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better > than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go > beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck > with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database > version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X > controls, > etc. > > I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so > I canned it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > John, > > >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use > >> it. > > >> << > > Fascinating. Why is that? > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow > wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit > Office. Microsoft does > > > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > > 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app > > runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > > > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > > can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both > > worlds with just one version? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 11 16:21:41 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 17:21:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001401cc1021$6c778880$45669980$@gmail.com> The next version's coding is done, they're just getting the documentation translated is what is taking so long... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? Well we have now. :-) A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. ??? I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 12 13:42:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:42:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 12 14:28:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:28:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?LSI_MegaRAID_SAS/SATA_9265-8i_6Gb/s_PC?= =?windows-1252?q?Ie_RAID_Card_Review_=96_Performance_Unleashed!_=7C_The_S?= =?windows-1252?q?SD_Review?= Message-ID: <4DCC34C3.4080302@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/lsi-megaraid-sassata-9265-8i-6gbs-pcie-raid-controller-card-review/ From bheid at sc.rr.com Thu May 12 17:24:36 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 18:24:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> Message-ID: <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 12 17:56:13 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:56:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <00d501cc10f7$cb400a00$61c01e00$@com> Hi Doug. I changed the context in my question below...I wasn't referring to runtime, so I believe Drew's answer was correct. Thanx, DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 12 18:01:00 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:01:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 12 18:54:33 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:54:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <001b01cc10ff$f15312c0$d3f93840$@cox.net> I don't really know what the advantage of the 64 bit version of Access is. It seems that there are compatibility issues if you use it. Most of the literature I have seen recommends against the 64 bit version of Office. The Access runtimes will work on 32 or 64 bit machines. The big question is how you set up the runtimes on the target machines. If you have a package that you send to clients that they run to install your app. on their computers then you need to worry about the installer. Most folks recommend going with Sagekey scripts for this approach. If you set the runtime up yourself then it should work well. There can be issues if the client has other versions of Office installed on the same machine as your runtime. This is no different than what happens if folks have two versions of Access installed on their computer. If you don't handle the startup of the application in the correct version your app. will try to open in whatever version of Access was run last. This can lead to problems. For runtimes it is recommended that you have a shortcut that causes the application to open using the runtime Access installation. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 4:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri May 13 02:39:27 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 02:39:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: The advantage is a little difficult to see right now. The best way is to jump back in time. Let's say you developed in Access 1.0 or 2.0, and let's say they came out with Access 3.0, as both a 16 bit version, and a 32 bit version. But a large amount of things didn't work with the 32 bit version. But Windows 95 was going to push things into the 32 bit direction...and it was going to spread like wild fire. The advantage of learning the quirks and ins and out of the 32 bit version was going to give you a leg up in the next few years. That is what the 64 bit version does. It allows you to get ready for a change. A change that is coming, whether we like it or not. 64 bit is here. Windows 7 is probably (and this is JUST my opinion) going to be the LAST Windows OS that is available in a 32 bit version. Right now, on a 64 bit OS, the ONLY way to run 16 bit applications is in a virtual environment. It is not going to be very long, probably less than a decade when 128 bit systems are as spread around as 64 bit systems are now. (check every machine you have purchased or worked on in the last 5 years... they are all going to be 64 bit machines, but if purchased before Windows 7, most will be running 32 bit OSes). When 128 bit processors are more dominant, and OSes move to use that structure, 32 bit applications are going to have the same problems that 16 bit applications do now.... so moving to 64 bit right now is going to get you on the wagon for the next decade. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 6:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-525 0-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 13 05:51:18 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 06:51:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 13 09:05:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 09:05:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> Message-ID: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 13 09:16:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 10:16:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Sounds like you're on the Market Research Team for Sage :) Arthur On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:05 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Jim, > I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have > something that will make it work? > > John B. > From john at winhaven.net Fri May 13 10:17:51 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 10:17:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <003101cc1180$ecf3aba0$c6db02e0$@winhaven.net> Sage has saved me from all of these types of headaches over the last 10 years. I suppose I should just look at their website and post a link each time the subject comes up ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 9:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Sounds like you're on the Market Research Team for Sage :) Arthur On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:05 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Jim, > I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have > something that will make it work? > > John B. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 13 10:35:28 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 11:35:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> They have been great at isolating Access apps in the past, so that might be possible, but I have no idea if that's the case. I think though that with the standard Office installs, a 32 bit Access runtime is going to have issues along side a 64 bit Office install. Sage/Wise scripts might give a different answer though. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat May 14 15:03:16 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 16:03:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:06:13 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:06:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <003a01cc1293$e7907bc0$b6b17340$@com> 128 bit. The first computer I worked on had 128K of offline storage and I thought that was plenty. :-0 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 12:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The advantage is a little difficult to see right now. The best way is to jump back in time. Let's say you developed in Access 1.0 or 2.0, and let's say they came out with Access 3.0, as both a 16 bit version, and a 32 bit version. But a large amount of things didn't work with the 32 bit version. But Windows 95 was going to push things into the 32 bit direction...and it was going to spread like wild fire. The advantage of learning the quirks and ins and out of the 32 bit version was going to give you a leg up in the next few years. That is what the 64 bit version does. It allows you to get ready for a change. A change that is coming, whether we like it or not. 64 bit is here. Windows 7 is probably (and this is JUST my opinion) going to be the LAST Windows OS that is available in a 32 bit version. Right now, on a 64 bit OS, the ONLY way to run 16 bit applications is in a virtual environment. It is not going to be very long, probably less than a decade when 128 bit systems are as spread around as 64 bit systems are now. (check every machine you have purchased or worked on in the last 5 years... they are all going to be 64 bit machines, but if purchased before Windows 7, most will be running 32 bit OSes). When 128 bit processors are more dominant, and OSes move to use that structure, 32 bit applications are going to have the same problems that 16 bit applications do now.... so moving to 64 bit right now is going to get you on the wagon for the next decade. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 6:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-525 0-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:13:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:13:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> Message-ID: <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> I posed this question to Sage: "Can I compile a 32-bit Access 2007 runtime and install on a 64-bit Windows machine with Office 2010 64-bit?" Answer: "Our installation package can detect if the system is 32 or 64 bit and install to the correct folder (i.e. Program Files vs. Program Files (x86)). The 32-bit runtime is installed to its own default location under c:\program files (x86)\Microsoft Office." -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 8:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit They have been great at isolating Access apps in the past, so that might be possible, but I have no idea if that's the case. I think though that with the standard Office installs, a 32 bit Access runtime is going to have issues along side a 64 bit Office install. Sage/Wise scripts might give a different answer though. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:17:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:17:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> Message-ID: <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:32:30 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:32:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> Message-ID: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat May 14 20:05:03 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:05:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 21:59:29 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 19:59:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> Sorry Bobby, but what do you mean you aren't using Access? Isn't that what we're talking about? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 6:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat May 14 23:52:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:52:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS><003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I always put the path and file name in the table and leave the pdf, doc, jpg or whatever outside the db. I found that importing even the simplest graphic into an access database bloated it way beyond the size of the file being imported . Is this what you're asking? Rocky R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun May 15 05:53:06 2011 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:53:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm totally with Rocky. Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 15 May 2011 05:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I always put the path and file name in the table and leave the pdf, doc, jpg or whatever outside the db. I found that importing even the simplest graphic into an access database bloated it way beyond the size of the file being imported . Is this what you're asking? Rocky R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 15 06:25:32 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 07:25:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 10:16:00 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:16:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not > the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the > past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it > or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB > limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; > store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset > table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want > to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's > not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I > tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that > approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple > thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 10:27:10 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 08:27:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 10:49:37 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 08:49:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com><015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net><015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net><001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com><001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com><008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net><008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com><00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS><002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net><74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS><003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com><003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Sun May 15 10:57:29 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:57:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? References: Message-ID: <9F46DF8EC30B4CECB6DC78A735795252@SusanHarkins> #2 is an option. Susan H. > Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - > a > title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the > combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in > the > table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the > user > enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the > photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will > still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places > that > opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other > set. > > Still voting for keeping them outside. > > However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be > stored > in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments > reveal. > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:38:37 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:38:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? Message-ID: I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. These queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The really odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, and it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? TIA, Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:42:38 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:42:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem Message-ID: I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 12:08:34 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:08:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have you changed version of access from the one you used to originally create this form and the sql queries in your other post? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 9:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:27:37 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:27:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes I have, from A2K3 in the first place to A2007 now, but even after the upgrade this stuff worked -- that is, until recently. I backup everything daily so I think I'll open a few of the backups and see if they exhibit the problem (they didn't when the backups were made; if they do now, then it might indicate a problem with Office 2007 rather than the db. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Have you changed version of access from the one you used to originally > create this form and the sql queries in your other post? > From ssharkins at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:36:16 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:36:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? References: Message-ID: <51E889124DC14B8DA0B487D377B93A18@SusanHarkins> Changed anything recently -- anything at all? You probably know all of the rules I've linked to though. Susan H. > I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. > These > queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm > getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The > really > odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, > and > it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. > > Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? > > TIA, > Arthur From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun May 15 12:48:40 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:48:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> Darrell, I worked with a client who had a database and was using the attachment fields type to store documents. The form with those fields was really slow, painfully slow. I was not able to prove that this field type was the problem, but suggested that we store the documents separately in a document directory. The owner of the company wanted the documents in the database and for other reasons wanted to upgrade the back end to sql server. We did this and I stored the documents in binary format in sql server and the speed went up dramatically. I can't prove that attachment fields are slow, but that is my assumption. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun May 15 13:24:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:24:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you loading the subforms JIT? Charlotte Foust On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two > containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when > I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent > either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; > other times all pages but the last one are visible. > > In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible > properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. > > I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? > > Arthur > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 15 14:29:57 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:29:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 15 14:38:32 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:38:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> Message-ID: <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> << Meaning exactly what you said.>> Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. There was nothing previously there to be compatible with. <> I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know that you can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, you get data you cannot use. <> I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not reclaimed until a compact. Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an object, which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. That no longer exists with the attachment field type. And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 16:24:32 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:24:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> <0B74CAD9C 3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> Message-ID: <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> Jim, <> Good suggestion. I'll do that. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? << Meaning exactly what you said.>> Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. There was nothing previously there to be compatible with. <> I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know that you can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, you get data you cannot use. <> I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not reclaimed until a compact. Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an object, which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. That no longer exists with the attachment field type. And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 16:56:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:56:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 17:16:34 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:16:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Message-ID: I use the following to open the file: If IsNull(Me.txtPicture) Then Exit Sub Shell "RunDLL32.EXE shell32.dll,ShellExec_RunDLL " & Me.txtPicture, vbMaximizedFocus Where Me.txtPicture contains the path and file name of the target. The file is opened by the application to which the file extension is associated. So if there's a pdf in txtPicture it opens with Reader, .doc file opens with Word, etc. I suppose you could stash the path and file name of an .mdb file and it would open in Access. Of course, if they move the file, the link is broken. I suppose I should put a FIleExists check before the Shell and give a freindly message if the file's not there. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper > around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be > deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 15 17:17:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:17:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> References: , <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS>, <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> Message-ID: <4DD050FD.32014.1FCA3D7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Another solution to Bloat is to use a split FE/BE and open you app via a cmd/batch file which copies a clean FE from a central location and then runs it. Slightly slower to open the app, but you then have your temp tables in the FE which will make then faster to use. -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 14:24, Darrell Burns wrote: > Jim, > < them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can > create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables > in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in > the temp DB.>> > > Good suggestion. I'll do that. > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > << Meaning exactly what you said.>> > > Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. > There > was nothing previously there to be compatible with. > > < Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip?>> > > I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know > that you > can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export > commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, > you get data you cannot use. > > < Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this > is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat > from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to > subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked.>> > > I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data > operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not > reclaimed until a compact. > > Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an > object, > which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. > That no longer exists with the attachment field type. > > And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access > them > via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the > temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the > current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp > DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" > Meaning exactly what you said. > Re: "... the data is compressed" > Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? > Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" > Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this > is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat > from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to > subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. > Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size > increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on > Compact/Repair to control the bloat. > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not > the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the > object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a > thing of the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it > or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the > ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; > store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be > deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 15 18:01:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:01:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: , <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com>, Message-ID: <4DD05B2D.29410.2246FDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Never seen it done that way before (wrapping the associated application in a RunDLL). I just Declare ShellExecute in a "General Functions" module: Public Declare Function ShellExecute Lib "SHELL32.DLL" Alias "ShellExecuteA" (ByVal hwnd As Long, ByVal lpOperation As String, _ ByVal lpFile As String, ByVal lpParameters As String, ByVal lpDirectory As String, ByVal nShowCmd As Long) As Long and then use: If (MaterialName > "") Then If (Dir$(BEDir() & "LibMat\" & MaterialName) > "") Then ShellExecute Application.hWndAccessApp, "Open", BEDir() _ & "LibMat\" & MaterialName, "", "", vbNormalFocus Else MsgBox MaterialName & " is missing from the LibMat directory!",,strAppTitle MaterialName = "" DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord End If End If -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 15:16, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the following to open the file: > > If IsNull(Me.txtPicture) Then Exit Sub > Shell "RunDLL32.EXE shell32.dll,ShellExec_RunDLL " & > Me.txtPicture, > vbMaximizedFocus > > Where Me.txtPicture contains the path and file name of the target. > > The file is opened by the application to which the file extension is > associated. So if there's a pdf in txtPicture it opens with Reader, > .doc file opens with Word, etc. I suppose you could stash the path > and file name of an .mdb file and it would open in Access. > > Of course, if they move the file, the link is broken. I suppose I > should put a FIleExists check before the Shell and give a freindly > message if the file's not there. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Jim & Rocky, > > What I like about the Attachment object is that: > 1. it handles multiple files; > 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since > the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are > moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed > a way to mimic that functionality through links? > > Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves > thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the > record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is > displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I > wrong? > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS > SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. > Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but > then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to > initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to > record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database > was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. > > My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the > picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do > that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive > file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of > the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in > the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you > store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db > somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of > having the one set not be the same as the other set. > > Still voting for keeping them outside. > > However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be > stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your > experiments reveal. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary > data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are > experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have > associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many > photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their > arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, > simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. > So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. > > A. > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman > wrote: > > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a > > new > > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper > > around > the object. > > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > > the past. > > > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use > > Attachments? > > > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that > > it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few > > years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table > > would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per > > client. I'll be deploying > the app as a runtime. > > > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > > > Thanx, > > DB > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 15 19:43:28 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:43:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201105160043.p4G0hbnG002073@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Arthur. Sometimes the only way I have found to fix this is to import all of the forms objects and controls into a new form. That often fixes the issue. It is usually less painful that is sounds as well. cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, 16 May 2011 2:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 15 20:43:54 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 18:43:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Message-ID: <96E9AA61353E4A7081100F4D5F994A89@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Darrell: In this particular sample it is a piece of code called everytime the user moves to a new record and the directory can be any place even an html site. ... iPhotograph = GetPictureDirectory() & lEmployeeNumber & ".jpg" If Len(Dir(iPhotograph)) = 0 Then iPhotograph = gsDefaultPhotographDir & "untitled.jpg" ... 'Then in an image object on the form, in this case named PhotoImage... PhotoImage.Picture = iPhotograph(lngEmployeeNumber) I hope this is what you are queying. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 16 02:01:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:01:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Message-ID: Hi Doug You could store the attachments in a single table in a separate database with a unique key. Then you don't need to read from the attachments' table except when you need an attachment and this will be identified with its unique key. Possible bloating will be kept in that table too. Perfect if the boss won't allow discrete attachment files. /gustav >>> dhb at flsi.com 15-05-2011 23:56 >>> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 16 02:19:24 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:19:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Message-ID: Hi Stuart It's a bit more sporty to create a separate temp database and tables from scratch with DAO. It is faster than copying a file. Initially, of course, it requires a bit more code but for people like you that's more or less a copy-n-paste experience. That said, for a POS setup - where, as you know, "everything" can happen - we use a nearly locked down Windows which doesn't much more than booting, connecting the network and printers, downloading the FE and launching this. When/if "something" happens or "doesn't work", just ask the clerk to reboot. Simple but brings peace for years! /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 16-05-2011 00:17 >>> Another solution to Bloat is to use a split FE/BE and open you app via a cmd/batch file which copies a clean FE from a central location and then runs it. Slightly slower to open the app, but you then have your temp tables in the FE which will make then faster to use. -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 14:24, Darrell Burns wrote: > Jim, > < them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can > create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables > in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in > the temp DB.>> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 06:18:19 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 07:18:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No. They all load at once. I have previously used JIT in other apps but in this one I didn't. Arthur On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you loading the subforms JIT? > > Charlotte Foust > > > From dhb at flsi.com Mon May 16 06:41:25 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 04:41:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001601cc13be$3085f0a0$9191d1e0$@com> Hi Gustav. Great idea...I'll do that. Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 12:02 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Hi Doug You could store the attachments in a single table in a separate database with a unique key. Then you don't need to read from the attachments' table except when you need an attachment and this will be identified with its unique key. Possible bloating will be kept in that table too. Perfect if the boss won't allow discrete attachment files. /gustav >>> dhb at flsi.com 15-05-2011 23:56 >>> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 16 08:29:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:29:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4DD126BD.7020405@colbyconsulting.com> And storing them in SQL Server is different from storing them in Access. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/15/2011 1:48 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Darrell, > > I worked with a client who had a database and was using the attachment > fields type to store documents. The form with those fields was really slow, > painfully slow. I was not able to prove that this field type was the > problem, but suggested that we store the documents separately in a document > directory. The owner of the company wanted the documents in the database and > for other reasons wanted to upgrade the back end to sql server. We did this > and I stored the documents in binary format in sql server and the speed went > up dramatically. > > I can't prove that attachment fields are slow, but that is my assumption. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset > table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want > to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's > not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I > tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that > approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple > thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros& cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 16 08:45:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:45:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> If you moved them from Access to SQL Server they are going to fail. You probably want to switch to a dao database (currentdb) and use db.Execute strSQL, dbSeeChanges. BTW this will allow you to use db.recordsaffected to check and/or log results of the updates. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/15/2011 12:38 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. These > queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm > getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The really > odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, and > it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. > > Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? > > TIA, > Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 08:59:54 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:59:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? In-Reply-To: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I didn't move them. I haven't changed anything. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:45 AM, jwcolby wrote: > If you moved them from Access to SQL Server they are going to fail. You > probably want to switch to a dao database (currentdb) and use db.Execute > strSQL, dbSeeChanges. BTW this will allow you to use db.recordsaffected to > check and/or log results of the updates. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon May 16 10:43:27 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:43:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for you. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:18 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > No. They all load at once. I have previously used JIT in other apps but in > this one I didn't. > > Arthur > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > >> Are you loading the subforms JIT? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 10:48:13 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:48:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes > sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens > faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste > time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the > other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for > you. > > Charlotte Foust > > From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 16 15:31:29 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:31:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue Message-ID: I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From bheid at sc.rr.com Mon May 16 16:11:47 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:11:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> Message-ID: <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> I am using .Net (ASP.Net/VB.Net) to read Excel files. The 2010 Access runtime (which is what I thought we were talking about) has the OLEDB drivers that I am using to do this and the runtime comes in comes both 32 and 64-bit versions. That is what I was originally pointing out. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 10:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Sorry Bobby, but what do you mean you aren't using Access? Isn't that what we're talking about? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 6:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 16 16:29:06 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 14:29:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A523A43088A40789ADAD01D2D9A367F@HAL9005> Yeah, tab forms and subforms sometimes don't resize right with the ADH code - although I've never found anything better. On tab and subform forms I'll set up variables for the size and location - sub-forms only seem to need height adjusted: Dim sglSubFormHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesTop As Single Dim sglTabPagesWidth As Single Dim sglTabPagesLeft As Single I modified the resizing code to put the x and y resizing factors into global variable gsglFactorX and gsglFactorY. Then in the open event where I'm doing the resizing I save the values of those properties, resize, and then force the sizes of those objects : sglSubFormHeight = Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height sglTabPagesHeight = Me.TabPages.Height sglTabPagesTop = Me.TabPages.Top sglTabPagesWidth = Me.TabPages.Width sglTabPagesLeft = Me.TabPages.Left Application.Echo False Call adhScaleForm(Me, 800, 600, 96, 96, rctOriginal) If DLookup("TurnScreenResizingOff", "tblPreferences") = False Then Me.TabPages.Height = sglTabPagesHeight * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Top = sglTabPagesTop * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Width = sglTabPagesWidth * gsglFactorX Me.TabPages.Left = sglTabPagesLeft * gsglFactorX Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height = sglSubFormHeight * gsglFactorY End If HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 1:31 PM To: Access Developers Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 16 16:35:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <5A523A43088A40789ADAD01D2D9A367F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <3115EEDDD3ED48DDAC8AF91549FFD75A@Dell> Thanks -- that's a lot of help. I'll give it a try. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Yeah, tab forms and subforms sometimes don't resize right with the ADH code - although I've never found anything better. On tab and subform forms I'll set up variables for the size and location - sub-forms only seem to need height adjusted: Dim sglSubFormHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesTop As Single Dim sglTabPagesWidth As Single Dim sglTabPagesLeft As Single I modified the resizing code to put the x and y resizing factors into global variable gsglFactorX and gsglFactorY. Then in the open event where I'm doing the resizing I save the values of those properties, resize, and then force the sizes of those objects : sglSubFormHeight = Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height sglTabPagesHeight = Me.TabPages.Height sglTabPagesTop = Me.TabPages.Top sglTabPagesWidth = Me.TabPages.Width sglTabPagesLeft = Me.TabPages.Left Application.Echo False Call adhScaleForm(Me, 800, 600, 96, 96, rctOriginal) If DLookup("TurnScreenResizingOff", "tblPreferences") = False Then Me.TabPages.Height = sglTabPagesHeight * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Top = sglTabPagesTop * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Width = sglTabPagesWidth * gsglFactorX Me.TabPages.Left = sglTabPagesLeft * gsglFactorX Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height = sglSubFormHeight * gsglFactorY End If HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 1:31 PM To: Access Developers Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at airtelmail.in Mon May 16 23:29:53 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 09:59:53 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: Message-ID: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From cjlabs at att.net Tue May 17 11:01:26 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:01:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> Message-ID: <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 17 14:56:09 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:56:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> References: , <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede>, <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. The query that I wish to union appears: SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: cjlabs at att.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:01:26 -0500 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. > > Now to change all the rest of them. . . . > > > Thanks, > Carolyn Johnson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: A.D. Tejpal > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > > Carolyn, > > Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: > http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 > > Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). > > Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: > (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. > (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. > (c) Combo box and list box. > (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. > (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. > (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. > > Note: > ------ > (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. > (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. > > Best wishes, > A.D. Tejpal > ------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: cjlabs > To: Access Developers > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 > Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > > I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. > > I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. > > If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). > > I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. > > Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? > > TIA > Carolyn Johnson > St Louis MO > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 15:13:58 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:13:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> Message-ID: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue May 17 15:34:28 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:34:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com><002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <04AAC98C730C47279120E563898AB16C@HAL9005> What kind of control? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 16:11:18 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:11:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <000901cc14d6$f71076f0$e53164d0$@cox.net> How about the "On Dbl Click" event for the control? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 17 16:18:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:18:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <4DD2E62D.3000402@colbyconsulting.com> Double click on the control? ;) Or call the doubleclick function from code in the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 4:13 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 16:37:10 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:37:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to make the subroutine public. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 17 16:40:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:40:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue May 17 16:56:59 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 07:56:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <000001cc14dd$59c28530$0d478f90$@activebilling.com.au> Hi Darrell Assume you have a text box called txtLastName on a form called frmEmployees. Assume on that form is a routine that displays a message box on the double click of that field. Private Sub txtLastName_DblClick (Cancel As Integer) MsgBox "Hi this is the Last Name text box from the employees form", vbInformation, "Last Name DoubleClick" End Sub Ok - Cool - Assume you have a command button (called Command2) on the same form and you want the double click of the LastName text box to 'fire' when the button is clicked, do something like this... Private Sub Command2_Click() txtLastName_DblClick -1 End Sub (the minus one bit above is to satisfy the "Cancel as integer" param on the DoubleClick routine) Now...if you want the double click routine on the Lastname field to be 'fired' from a button called 'Command1' on another form you could do this... First change the status of the Private Sub routine on the LastName double click into a Public Sub - like this... Public Sub txtLastName_DblClick(Cancel As Integer) ''<--note it is public sub now MsgBox "Hi this is the Last Name text box", vbInformation, "Last Name DoubleClick" End Sub Private Sub Command1_Click()''<---not this should be on a totally different form Forms("frmEmployeesform1").txtLastName_DblClick -1 End Sub There probably are better ways of handling this and the gurus here will suggest them. This has worked for me a zillion times. Now, having said all that if the information in this control that is to be double clicked is being 'fired' or called from another place you may want to give somethought to moving the doubleclick code/logic into a more public place, like in a module etc. Hope it makes sense - See ya Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 6:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 17:24:08 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 15:24:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001a01cc14e1$23d8a720$6b89f560$@cox.net> Maybe my terminology is incorrect. I was referring to the subroutine created for the event, you can make that public, or at least remove the Private designation. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger > from code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in > the event stub and then call it from where ever you want by the > subroutine name, e.g., sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from > outside the form you need to make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 19:55:07 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:55:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <00f301cc14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> Thanx to everybody for replying. I'm just responding to the most recent post. I have an Attachment control on a form. The control is named Asset_Attachment. I want the built-in Attachment dialog box to spring open as soon as I open the form. The only way I know to make that dialog appear is by dbl-clicking Asset_Attachment. I tried inserting Asset_Attachment_DblClick (-1) in the Form_Open event but I got a "Sub or function not defined" compile error. Is there a way to send those mouse-clicks to the control? Thx, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 20:16:17 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 18:16:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00f301cc14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> <00f301c c14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> Message-ID: <00f701cc14f9$30c01a50$92404ef0$@com> Doh! I figured it out...didn't need to double-click. All I needed to do was send a space key... DoCmd.GoToControl "Asset_Attachment" SendKeys " " Thanx! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 5:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Thanx to everybody for replying. I'm just responding to the most recent post. I have an Attachment control on a form. The control is named Asset_Attachment. I want the built-in Attachment dialog box to spring open as soon as I open the form. The only way I know to make that dialog appear is by dbl-clicking Asset_Attachment. I tried inserting Asset_Attachment_DblClick (-1) in the Form_Open event but I got a "Sub or function not defined" compile error. Is there a way to send those mouse-clicks to the control? Thx, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at airtelmail.in Tue May 17 23:08:53 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:38:53 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: You are most welcome Carolyn! Nice of you to provide the confirmation regarding successful outcome. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 21:31 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 17 23:48:08 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:48:08 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. Message-ID: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Everyone, If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but I am not that hopeful :-/ If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. cheers Darryl. _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 18 00:14:51 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 15:14:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The triumph of form over function yet again. MS would much rather have it "look pretty" than "be practical". As far as I know, you're stuck with it. -- Stuart On 18 May 2011 at 14:48, Darryl Collins wrote: > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde > world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane > and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details > were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and > useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several > lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor > I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make > the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the > nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make > a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched > up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - > STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB > objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. > Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such > a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they > want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the > instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but > I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 > levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > ______________________________________________________________________ From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 18 00:48:35 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 22:48:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Darryl, Your mantra should be, "Designed for end users who don't understand what they need." Keep repeating it until numbness sets in! Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > Hi Everyone, > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. ?In ye olde world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane and this was fine. ?The DB object icons were small and the details were displayed on a single line per object. ?Nice and tight and useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. ?I figure that streeeeeeching the nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - STUPID! ?I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. ?Sheesh. ?Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? ?I find it such a backward step in productivity. ?Sure let folks dock the pane if they want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) ?urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed May 18 00:49:19 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 15:49:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com>, <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105180551.p4I5pBev004265@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha, yeah, it seems like it. "form over function" for sure. I used to be able to sort by mod date with a single click. Now it is a lot of stuffing around with the mouse and scrolling thru pages of db objects because you can only view a handful at a time. What a right PITA. Productivity just went 'plurk!' ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan [stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. The triumph of form over function yet again. MS would much rather have it "look pretty" than "be practical". As far as I know, you're stuck with it. -- Stuart On 18 May 2011 at 14:48, Darryl Collins wrote: > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde > world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane > and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details > were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and > useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several > lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor > I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make > the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the > nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make > a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched > up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - > STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB > objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. > Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such > a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they > want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the > instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but > I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 > levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > ______________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 18 02:39:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:39:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names Message-ID: Hi J?rgen Weird. Try adding DISTINCT: SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. /gustav >>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. The query that I wish to union appears: SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From cjlabs at att.net Wed May 18 06:59:41 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 06:59:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede><854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: In case it's of interest, I have/had 2 forms with issues. I have a option group with a label attached to the frame -- that label's font size is too large and it's location is too far right (to the right instead of left of the frame). I deleted the label and created a new one that was not associated with the frame, and it's OK. I have another form with 2 subforms, that are both datasheet view. The 2 subforms' font size is increased, but the row height is not, so you cannot read the text. You can, however, manually increase the row height. The other 35 forms in the database that use resizing work great. I disabled the double click code. I have a main form switchboard (that actually has several levels of hierarchy) and double-clicking the screen activates the button handler. Thanks again, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue You are most welcome Carolyn! Nice of you to provide the confirmation regarding successful outcome. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 21:31 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 07:13:37 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 08:13:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 07:45:49 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 08:45:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Shortcut for VBE Message-ID: Does anyone know of a shortcut key for displaying the Object or Procedure controls' dropdown lists? Thanks! Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 08:35:52 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:35:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Nevermind (Fw: Shortcut for VBE) Message-ID: <7996DAF5FF0B41CF846423D57014AAD6@SusanHarkins> It's Ctrl+F2 Does anyone know of a shortcut key for displaying the Object or Procedure controls' dropdown lists? Thanks! Susan H. From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed May 18 08:58:51 2011 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:58:51 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT position available Message-ID: Hello All, A former co-worker reached out to me about a position they were trying to fill. Since I am happy in my current position (and don't want to go to Chicago) I thought I would pass this on to the list in case anyone is looking. Thanks, Mark A. Matte. P.S...if interested you can contact Tina (Tina.Biancalana at searshc.com) \******************************** Job Title Sr. Analyst, IM Systems & Support ? Reporting Business Corporate - Supply Chain State or Province/City IL Hoffman Estates Company Sears Holdings Management Corp Years Experience: 2 - 5 Years Experience Preferred Minimum Education: BS required. CS or MIS degree desired. Travel Requirements: None Requisition ID 94304BR To view full job description, please search Careerbuilder.com for requisition ID 94304BR or Sears Holdings. Minimum requirements: Software: SQL Server, Teradata, Access, Excel Programming Languages: SQL, VB From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 18 11:16:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, that could be the problem. Charlotte Foust On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi J?rgen > > Weird. > Try adding DISTINCT: > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. ?For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. ?Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. ?Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. ?Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. ?The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > I have 31 alias names in the table. ?28 of them work. ?3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > If I add a column to the select statement: ?[LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. ?If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. ?We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. ?The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. ?I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. ?There are no names with apostrophes. ?Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. ?It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. ?If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed May 18 13:07:02 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:07:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed May 18 13:29:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 11:29:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limitedbudget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com><003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <407B5AC805FE4FE6922DE5953EDC7991@HAL9005> Brad: Check out www.e-z-mrp.com. Might be exactly what you need. It's in Access 2003. If interested, call me and we'll talk. Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limitedbudget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed May 18 13:34:28 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:34:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 18 15:13:26 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the last name field to the query as an additional column displays the last name. There are records in the main table associated with the alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or the full proper name). SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID yeilds 12 Brad Card Card Brad 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim 2344 Rick Mackie Rick 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name first mode. Gustav: Distinct did not work. I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where none should be required. I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: ?1=1 ?2=2 ?3=3 ?4=4 One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to determine whether they continue to fail. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, > that could be the problem. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi J?rgen > > > > Weird. > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed May 18 18:57:33 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:57:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From adtp at airtelmail.in Wed May 18 22:34:35 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:04:35 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede><854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: <36E8B29C8A0D42B5BA4560C6BD73D2F9@personal4a8ede> Carolyn, Existing version of form resize class has certain arbitrary upper & lower limits on datasheet row height. If you are in a position to put together a skeleton db containing the two problem forms along with their associated objects, I could look into it further - so as to ascertain whether further fine tuning of the class is called for. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 17:29 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue In case it's of interest, I have/had 2 forms with issues. I have a option group with a label attached to the frame -- that label's font size is too large and it's location is too far right (to the right instead of left of the frame). I deleted the label and created a new one that was not associated with the frame, and it's OK. I have another form with 2 subforms, that are both datasheet view. The 2 subforms' font size is increased, but the row height is not, so you cannot read the text. You can, however, manually increase the row height. The other 35 forms in the database that use resizing work great. I disabled the double click code. I have a main form switchboard (that actually has several levels of hierarchy) and double-clicking the screen activates the button handler. Thanks again, Carolyn From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed May 18 23:34:10 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 21:34:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu May 19 06:51:41 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 06:51:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> Message-ID: <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu May 19 07:50:26 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 05:50:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Ah, programmer's full employment act of 2011. Nice. :) I'm at the other end - companies in the startup to $20,000,000 range - what I call the bottom 90% of the market - or independent subsidiaries or internal projects of larger companies. Intel uses E-Z-MRP at their facility up in Oregon for example. And Philips Medical has a captive supplier in China using it as part of their supply chain management system. Just fishing for some possibilities of working together. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu May 19 08:00:16 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 08:00:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> Try taking a look at www.enterpriseminnesota.org. They are a consulting group focused on helping small MN Manufacturing companies grow, and at least some of their clients are in your size range. I subscribe to their free magazine sort of with the intent to find potential customers, but the companies that are discussed are all too small to be interested in me. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Ah, programmer's full employment act of 2011. Nice. :) I'm at the other end - companies in the startup to $20,000,000 range - what I call the bottom 90% of the market - or independent subsidiaries or internal projects of larger companies. Intel uses E-Z-MRP at their facility up in Oregon for example. And Philips Medical has a captive supplier in China using it as part of their supply chain management system. Just fishing for some possibilities of working together. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 19 10:57:30 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 11:57:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@! comcast.net> <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 19 12:03:22 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:03:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> References: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000801cc1646$a987e8c0$fc97ba40$@com> Hi Darryl, I feel your pain about the Nav window. It sux! Every time I open up a database I have to reset it to show last-to-first Mod Date sequence. Why can't it remember something as basic as that? Is there room on your soapbox for one more? Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu May 19 11:54:52 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:54:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names - Solved In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: When in table view, I tabbed into the FirstNameAlias field and replaced Rob with Rob and found that the query now included the last name as expected. I just about broke my head on this one. It turns out that the textbox where alias names are entered has the property for 'Enter Key Behavior' set to 'New Line in Field'. In the case of the three names that did not display, the data had been entered in two rows. Thus Rob had actually been entered as 'Rob' & vbcrlf & 'Rob'. Apparently this forced the query to display the last name field in the 2nd row and the query defalut display height is one row only. Changing the row height in the query view showed the last names in the 2nd row. Trim$ is used for the not in list procedure by which names are entered in the tables but allowing the enter key to add new rows in the alias sub form messed things up when users entered text both before and after an enter key. Needless to say I changed the Enter Key Behavior of the Alias Name text box and checked the rest of the data. All I needed to do is change the row height in the alias table view in order to see the problem records and I'm satisfied that everything now works as it should. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: jwelz at hotmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the last name field to the query as an additional column displays the last name. There are records in the main table associated with the alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or the full proper name). > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > yeilds > > 12 Brad Card Card Brad > 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim > 2344 Rick Mackie Rick > 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob > 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron > 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch > 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob > > I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. > > What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name first mode. > > Gustav: Distinct did not work. > > I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where none should be required. > > I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. > > It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: > > ?1=1 > ?2=2 > ?3=3 > ?4=4 > > One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. > > At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to determine whether they continue to fail. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, > > that could be the problem. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi J?rgen > > > > > > Weird. > > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > > > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > > > Ciao > > > J?rgen Welz > > > Edmonton, Alberta > > > jwelz at hotmail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 19 15:56:59 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 06:56:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names - Solved In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DD5841B.12075.164C5AC1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've been bitten by a CRLF at the start of a text field a few times over the years as well. It's a b*tch, ain't it :-) -- Stuart On 19 May 2011 at 10:54, Jurgen Welz wrote: > > When in table view, I tabbed into the FirstNameAlias field and > replaced Rob with Rob and found that the query now included the last > name as expected. I just about broke my head on this one. > > It turns out that the textbox where alias names are entered has the > property for 'Enter Key Behavior' set to 'New Line in Field'. In the > case of the three names that did not display, the data had been > entered in two rows. Thus Rob had actually been entered as 'Rob' & > vbcrlf & 'Rob'. Apparently this forced the query to display the last > name field in the 2nd row and the query defalut display height is one > row only. Changing the row height in the query view showed the last > names in the 2nd row. Trim$ is used for the not in list procedure by > which names are entered in the tables but allowing the enter key to > add new rows in the alias sub form messed things up when users entered > text both before and after an enter key. > > Needless to say I changed the Enter Key Behavior of the Alias Name > text box and checked the rest of the data. All I needed to do is > change the row height in the alias table view in order to see the > problem records and I'm satisfied that everything now works as it > should. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > From: jwelz at hotmail.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > > > Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the > > concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the > > last name field to the query as an additional column displays the > > last name. There are records in the main table associated with the > > alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. > > The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated > > query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The > > oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display > > the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the > > search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select > > tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & > > tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is > > missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the > > first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where > > the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the > > concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd > > is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to > > appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a > > length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the > > contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or > > the full proper name). > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' > > & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & > > [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 FROM tblEmployeeAlias > > INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = > > tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > yeilds > > > > 12 Brad Card Card Brad > > 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim > > 2344 Rick Mackie Rick > > 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob > > 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron > > 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch > > 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob > > > > I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison > > operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first > > or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display > > the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. > > > > What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first > > and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In > > the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. > > These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee > > to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display > > regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show > > them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first > > name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently > > work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma > > with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color > > to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name > > first mode. > > > > Gustav: Distinct did not work. > > > > I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and > > storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would > > simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would > > require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits > > to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names > > and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so > > I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where > > none should be required. > > > > I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' > > tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L > > = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger > > = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent > > behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. > > > > It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate > > window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: > > > > ?1=1 > > ?2=2 > > ?3=3 > > ?4=4 > > > > One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC > > connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. > > > > At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the > > data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try > > adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to > > determine whether they continue to fail. > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > > > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If > > > not, that could be the problem. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock > > > wrote: > > > > Hi J?rgen > > > > > > > > Weird. > > > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record > > > > by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be > > > > some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose > > > > payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look > > > > up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or > > > > Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo > > > > record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and > > > > Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form > > > > on the main form record. > > > > > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary > > > > key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to > > > > the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup > > > > combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & > > > > LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & > > > > ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or > > > > both records as well as regional filters. > > > > > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & > > > > ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias > > > > INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = > > > > tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in > > > > that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & > > > > [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. > > > > If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it > > > > appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null > > > > data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias > > > > names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are > > > > Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the > > > > concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record > > > > last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display > > > > concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled > > > > why some work and some don't. There are no names with > > > > apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual > > > > name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no > > > > difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the > > > > order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > > > > > Ciao > > > > J?rgen Welz > > > > Edmonton, Alberta > > > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Thu May 19 16:54:12 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:54:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> References: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <010c01cc166f$4b2245e0$e166d1a0$@activebilling.com.au> It's always time for coffee - with A2010 It's time for an IV Re the new layouts (Ribbons etc.) I watched all the disparaging comments from the world on the next forums etc. (and here too). Now I have office 2010 (outlook included) OMG What a PITA DD -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2011 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rlister at actuarial-files.com Thu May 19 18:48:45 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:48:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@! comcast.net> <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <000d01cc167f$4ca65a90$e5f30fb0$@com> Hello John, I have this code snippet, may be it helps: Function AgeInMonths(End As Date, Begin As Date) As Integer '************************************************************ '************************************************************ '** Name of Procedure: AgeInMonths ** '** Date: January 2011 ** '** Called from: various in modReservas, modReservasInv ** '** Calls: none ** '** Task: Calculates the age of a person in month ** '** Input: End, Begin (Both Date) ** '** Output: Integer ** '** Example: AgeInMonths(#30/4/2011#,#25/11/2009#) = 17 ** '************************************************************ '************************************************************ Dim xM As Integer If Day(End) < Day(Begin) Then xM = (Year(End) - Year(Begin)) * 12 + _ Month(End) - Month(Begin) - 1 Else xM = (Year(End) - Year(Begin)) * 12 + _ Month(End) - Month(Begin) End If AgeInMonths = xM End Function Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com -----Mensaje original----- De: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] En nombre de John Clark Enviado el: Jueves, 19 de Mayo de 2011 11:58 a.m. Para: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Asunto: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3647 - Release Date: 05/19/11 From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu May 19 23:15:50 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 14:15:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... Message-ID: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi everyone, A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following error "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall it" Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this problem. Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. bah. annoying. cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Fri May 20 00:03:00 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 22:03:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <3CDA3DC698A44A85A6DF9BD21E3D6632@BPCS> Darryl, I had a similar problem, not sure if it applies to but in my case it had to do trying to open a JPG. The cure was to right click on any jpg and and make sure that paint was the default. My program used paint to display photo's. Like you it only affected those PC's that had the default JPG set to something else or perhaps not set at all. The same thing might apply if you are using something other than photos like say notepad for .txt etc. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Collins" Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 9:15 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi everyone, A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following error "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall it" Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this problem. Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. bah. annoying. cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 20 01:15:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:15:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DD6071C.19653.184C1D20@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It often occurs when you have a OLE object field in your database with various images, documents etc embedded and the program that is set as the default for that type of file is not the same as the one used on the PC that saved the object. -- Stuart On 20 May 2011 at 14:15, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi everyone, > > A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following > error > > "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall > it" > > Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none > of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known > issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb > / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This > sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, > but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of > calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. > > On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this > problem. > > Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking > running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. > > bah. annoying. > > cheers > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Fri May 20 01:33:00 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:33:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <4DD6071C.19653.184C1D20@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105200633.p4K6X8sb028504@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Ok guys, Going to try that out with this user and see what happens. Will post back with results. I have repointed the single graphic used to point at MS Paint and reinstalled it. thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, 20 May 2011 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... It often occurs when you have a OLE object field in your database with various images, documents etc embedded and the program that is set as the default for that type of file is not the same as the one used on the PC that saved the object. -- Stuart On 20 May 2011 at 14:15, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi everyone, > > A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following > error > > "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall > it" > > Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none > of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known > issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb > / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This > sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, > but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of > calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. > > On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this > problem. > > Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking > running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. > > bah. annoying. > > cheers > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri May 20 06:47:42 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:47:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of Message-ID: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Hi, Working on a database application where the client wants what she refers to as primary and secondary drop-downs. The description is of a drop-list wherein two of the items have secondary drop-lists. This is to be able to select specific reports to print. So, one report, called "Post It" would have a second selection criterion of which counselor the report is for. To me, this sounds like a cascading menu - commonly found in the Microsoft Office Suite programs - but I don't know how to construct that in Access. Perhaps the Treeview approach is a good option. I'd love a little feedback on how to meet this client's need. Thanks, Tina From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 20 08:27:08 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 15:27:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! Message-ID: Hi John Here is how: Public Function Months( _ ByVal datDate1 As Date, _ ByVal datDate2 As Date, _ Optional ByVal booLinear As Boolean) _ As Integer ' Returns the difference in full months between datDate1 and datDate2. ' ' Calculates correctly for: ' negative differences ' leap years ' dates of 29. February ' date/time values with embedded time values ' negative date/time values (prior to 1899-12-29) ' ' Optionally returns negative counts rounded down to provide a ' linear sequence of month counts. ' For a given datDate1, if datDate2 is decreased stepwise one month from ' returning a positive count to returning a negative count, one or two ' occurrences of count zero will be returned. ' If booLinear is False, the sequence will be: ' 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, -1, -2 ' If booLinear is True, the sequence will be: ' 3, 2, 1, 0, -1, -2, -3 ' ' If booLinear is False, reversing datDate1 and datDate2 will return ' results of same absolute Value, only the sign will change. ' This behaviour mimics that of Fix(). ' If booLinear is True, reversing datDate1 and datDate2 will return ' results where the negative count is offset by -1. ' This behaviour mimics that of Int(). ' DateAdd() is used for check for month end of February as it correctly ' returns Feb. 28. when adding a count of months to dates of Feb. 29. ' when the resulting year is a common year. ' ' 2010-03-30. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim intDiff As Integer Dim intSign As Integer Dim intMonths As Integer ' Find difference in calendar months. intMonths = DateDiff("m", datDate1, datDate2) ' For positive resp. negative intervals, check if the second date ' falls before, on, or after the crossing date for a 1 month period ' while at the same time correcting for February 29. of leap years. If DateDiff("d", datDate1, datDate2) > 0 Then intSign = Sgn(DateDiff("d", DateAdd("m", intMonths, datDate1), datDate2)) intDiff = Abs(intSign < 0) Else intSign = Sgn(DateDiff("d", DateAdd("m", -intMonths, datDate2), datDate1)) If intSign <> 0 Then ' Offset negative count of months to continuous sequence if requested. intDiff = Abs(booLinear) End If intDiff = intDiff - Abs(intSign < 0) End If ' Return count of months as count of full 1 month periods. Months = intMonths - intDiff End Function To have the years and months count: intMonths = Months([DOB], Date) strYearsMonths = CStr(intMonths \ 12) & " year(s), " & CStr(intMonths Mod 12) & " month(s)" /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 19-05-2011 17:57 >>> I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 20 09:05:50 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:05:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of In-Reply-To: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> References: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Message-ID: The common approach to this is related combo or listboxes; however, in your case the lists seem unrelated (unless of course only certain users have access to certain reports, but in that case you're missing a table and the lists are in the wrong order). I'd go with a simple dialog box containing two controls, one for reports and one for users. HTH, A. From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri May 20 10:19:15 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:19:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Message-ID: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 10:25:29 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:25:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I've sent out over 300 separate emails that were created by Access in a batch and put in my Outbox, then sent manually by me. Customized emails with the same subject line. No problems. The only limits I've dealt with are imposed by email providers, who try to prevent spammers by limiting you to 50 emails in a 2 hour window and 200 a day. AT&T does that. Charter.net does that. It's not Access or Outlook. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 20 10:35:00 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:35:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <7D67105591864E8E9964755F9763F2CB@XPS> Yes, there are no real limits as far as the client is concerned. It's the ISP and its spam detection limits that are at work when you send e-mail and each is different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question I've sent out over 300 separate emails that were created by Access in a batch and put in my Outbox, then sent manually by me. Customized emails with the same subject line. No problems. The only limits I've dealt with are imposed by email providers, who try to prevent spammers by limiting you to 50 emails in a 2 hour window and 200 a day. AT&T does that. Charter.net does that. It's not Access or Outlook. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 11:09:58 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:09:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> I've run into this problem with a program I wrote to contact people for events, etc. Outlook does not have a limit but Exchange can, ISPs can and filtering devices/add-ins can (like SPAM filters). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri May 20 11:38:05 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:38:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. > I've run into this problem with a program I wrote to contact people for > events, etc. Outlook does not have a limit but Exchange can, ISPs can and > filtering devices/add-ins can (like SPAM filters). From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 20 11:50:44 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:50:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD663A40200006B0001FAA2@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> A huge THANK YOU Gustav!!! I was drawing a blank...I just can't concentrate these days. It could be because I do net admin one day, work on switches the next, then get into the VOIP stuff, then try to learn SharePoint (I hate SharePoint so far...well, WSS anyhow)...it is just hard for me to turn programming on and off like that. But, I appreciate your help very much...you saved me a bunch. John W Clark >>> "Gustav Brock" 5/20/2011 9:27 A >>> Hi John Here is how: From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 12:57:37 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:57:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 20 13:10:51 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:10:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I've been automating task items set with people to remind with due date and reminder times and Outlook barfs some message about allowing macros to access your address book create items for 1, 2, 5 or 10 minutes. Thats a very real limit by time. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: ssharkins at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:19:15 -0400 > Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question > > 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? > > ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? > > > > Susan H. From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 20 15:44:30 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:44:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of In-Reply-To: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> References: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Message-ID: Tina, I just saw this now. I don't know if you've solved the issue, but there are excellent free, video tutorials on cascading combos here. http://www.datapigtechnologies.com/flashfiles/combobox1.html http://www.datapigtechnologies.com/flashfiles/combobox2.html Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of Hi, Working on a database application where the client wants what she refers to as primary and secondary drop-downs. The description is of a drop-list wherein two of the items have secondary drop-lists. This is to be able to select specific reports to print. So, one report, called "Post It" would have a second selection criterion of which counselor the report is for. To me, this sounds like a cascading menu - commonly found in the Microsoft Office Suite programs - but I don't know how to construct that in Access. Perhaps the Treeview approach is a good option. I'd love a little feedback on how to meet this client's need. Thanks, Tina -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri May 20 15:49:58 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:49:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 20 16:07:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:07:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DD6D818.1495.1B7C80B3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've never come across a hard limit in a mail client. The most likely cause of an apparent freeze would be long delays in the time it takes for the SMTP server to deal with a large list of addresses and respond to the email client. The client could appear to hang while waiting for the resoponse. The primary limit will generally be the rules implemented by the SMTP server you are sending through. Often ISPs set their public servers' limits at 50 - 100. Exchange Server has a parameter msExchSmtpMaxRecipients which can be set by administrators. MS in their wisdom set it by default to 64,000 ! On 20 May 2011 at 11:19, Susan Harkins wrote: > 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can > be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read > different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be > done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook > will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it > differ? > > ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit > at all? > > > > Susan H. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 17:54:35 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:54:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 18:05:36 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:05:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: The ISPs blacklist others from time to teim. AOL has blacklisted AT&T several times because they were getting so much spam from AT&T accounts. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bartow To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 18:25:27 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:25:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <00ba01cc1745$33d57070$9b805150$@winhaven.net> AT&T drives me nuts. They have you jump through all kinds of verifications routines and extra security, etc. but they haven't affected the SPAM at all. Sometimes I think they just have a sadistic CIO who likes to punish his clients. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 6:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question The ISPs blacklist others from time to teim. AOL has blacklisted AT&T several times because they were getting so much spam from AT&T accounts. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bartow To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri May 20 19:06:12 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:06:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: It happened to pundit last year - Cox blacklisted her so she couldn't send any mail to a Cox account. It was hell to straighten out - our ISP TW said it was Cox and of course you know what Cox said. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 19:29:08 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 19:29:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] accelerator keys not working in Access2010 Message-ID: I'm trying to fix all the stuff that worked in my database in 2000, 2002 and 2003 but no longer work in 2010. I have a lot of accelerator keys on my forms (Alt + ) which no longer work in Access 2010. Does anyone know if there is a way to make them functional? TIA, Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 20 21:51:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 22:51:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM Message-ID: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible a workstation running out on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM running but it was part of my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able to access it remote desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is using stored info and assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can from my internal network. I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel through the firewall. Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 07:41:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 08:41:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Message-ID: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat May 21 08:31:44 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 06:31:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John: I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 Set dbs = CurrentDb On Error GoTo Change_Err dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue ChangeProperty = True Change_Bye: Exit Function Change_Err: If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ varPropType, varPropValue) dbs.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else ' Unknown error. ChangeProperty = False Resume Change_Bye End If End Function I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than through my own menus: ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde") <> 0 Then Me.MenuBar = "=1" Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open End If Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 21 09:52:55 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 16:52:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Message-ID: Hi John Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): >>>1999-05-18 08:15 Subject: My FramwWIZ 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties of the current database or any database (depending on button pushed). The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all the built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) and into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen because it really should be a check box) to allow you to select the state you wish to set the property to (set or reset). There is then a button that you can press to save any changes to the properties back into the database. These properties allow the developer to "secure" the operation of the database to prevent fiddling by the user. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41 >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 11:49:30 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:49:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> Gustav, > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): LOL. Yea I went out and found that. This is the basis (as is the code from the other posters) but I really want an application that sets the properties and then copies from / to. My application allows you to open an Access FE, navigate to another Access FE and set the properties there. It is an entire user interface around this code. I am going to be modifying my app (designed in 10/2001 BTW) to add this additional functionality. I am going to need it table driven so that I can select a group of files, set the properties and copy all of the files to production. As you know I also have two libraries to secure. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 10:52 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): > >>>> 1999-05-18 08:15 > Subject: My FramwWIZ > > 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) > is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties of the > current database or any database (depending on button pushed). > > The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all the > built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, > StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, > AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. > > These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) and > into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen because it > really should be a check box) to allow you to select the state you wish to > set the property to (set or reset). There is then a button that you can > press to save any changes to the properties back into the database. These > properties allow the developer to "secure" the operation of the database to > prevent fiddling by the user. > > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41>>> > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want > to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as > Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat May 21 12:19:54 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:19:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000c01cc17db$4d8a7ce0$e89f76a0$@comcast.net> John, You could try this technique - you can work another FE from your FE. However, the properties you are changing don't take effect until the next time the mdb file opened. So a test is needed to see if this actually works the next time the other FE is opened. '-- Set Destination MDB as the CurrentDatabase Set MappDestination = New Access.Application MappDestination.OpenCurrentDatabase MstgDestinationFilePath DoEvents Post back your results! I use these properties also for each of my customer's systems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 11:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Gustav, > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): LOL. Yea I went out and found that. This is the basis (as is the code from the other posters) but I really want an application that sets the properties and then copies from / to. My application allows you to open an Access FE, navigate to another Access FE and set the properties there. It is an entire user interface around this code. I am going to be modifying my app (designed in 10/2001 BTW) to add this additional functionality. I am going to need it table driven so that I can select a group of files, set the properties and copy all of the files to production. As you know I also have two libraries to secure. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 10:52 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): > >>>> 1999-05-18 08:15 > Subject: My FramwWIZ > > 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) > is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties > of the current database or any database (depending on button pushed). > > The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all > the built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, > StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, > AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. > > These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) > and into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen > because it really should be a check box) to allow you to select the > state you wish to set the property to (set or reset). There is then a > button that you can press to save any changes to the properties back > into the database. These properties allow the developer to "secure" > the operation of the database to prevent fiddling by the user. > > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41>>> > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jedi at charm.net Sat May 21 12:33:50 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM In-Reply-To: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4373.24.35.19.37.1305999230.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John, with your current setup I think it will be difficult to be "isolated" as you will always be part of 192.168.1.x. Since you are using a VM then the VM is part of the phsical machine by way of a virtual network. One way (maybe) to partially isolate your VM is to sub-net but that would mean sub-netting your physical machine also as your VM is using a virtual network. Another way (maybe) is to get another router and run it parallel to your current router and then connect your physical machine. Make sure you configure the second router router as 192.168.2.x. Mike > Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible > a workstation running out > on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM > running but it was part of > my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able > to access it remote > desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is > using stored info and > assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can > from my internal network. > > I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range > (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) > but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel > through the firewall. > > Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dc8 at btinternet.com Sat May 21 14:03:59 2011 From: dc8 at btinternet.com (Chris Swann) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 20:03:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Error 1004 In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net><00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4DD80C9F.4040509@btinternet.com> Hi all, I have some code that runs fine on my work PC running XP SP3 with Office 2007. Wanted to do a bit of work on my home PC which is Vista with Office 2003 and 2007 installed. I thought this might be the problem. So, I thought I'd try on my laptop which only has Office 2003 installed but got the same error. It seems to be failing at this point (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<) and I wondered if anybody might be able to shed any light on what might be causing the problem. The code completes the first two lines - correctly adds the data to the first two sheets and then fails part of code follows Do Line Input #1, theline a = Split(theline, "|") rowcount = rowcount + 1 For i = LBound(a) To UBound(a) Select Case i Case Is <= 249 sht1(rowcount, i + 1) = a(i) Case 250 To 499 sht2(rowcount, i - 249) = a(i) Case 500 To 749 sht3(rowcount, i - 499) = a(i) End Select Next i Loop While Not EOF(1) Close #1 With xlApp .Sheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht1 .Sheets("Sheet2").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht2 .Sheets("Sheet3").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht3 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< .Sheets("WantedData").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht4 End With Many thanks, Chris Swann From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat May 21 17:47:50 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 18:47:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Guess what? Somehow (without my conscious intervention) Access suddenly decided that the BE should be Read-Only, and that was the source of all my difficulties. So I copied it and renamed the old one to BE_RO and renamed the copy to BE, and lo and behold, everything worked again. I have no idea what I might have inadvertently done to cause Access to mark the BE ReadOnly, but it did, and now that I[ve sorted it out, I'm back in Productive City (i.e. billable time). A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it > doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form > from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. > > A. > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust < > charlotte.foust at gmail.com> wrote: > >> That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes >> sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens >> faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste >> time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the >> other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for >> you. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 21 18:09:23 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:09:23 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <182067B3E3754B08BC3F25B982E53469@abpc> Never underestimate your unconscious intervention... Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 22. maj 2011 00:48 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem Guess what? Somehow (without my conscious intervention) Access suddenly decided that the BE should be Read-Only, and that was the source of all my difficulties. So I copied it and renamed the old one to BE_RO and renamed the copy to BE, and lo and behold, everything worked again. I have no idea what I might have inadvertently done to cause Access to mark the BE ReadOnly, but it did, and now that I[ve sorted it out, I'm back in Productive City (i.e. billable time). A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it > doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form > from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. > > A. > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust < > charlotte.foust at gmail.com> wrote: > >> That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes >> sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens >> faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste >> time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the >> other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for >> you. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 23:52:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 00:52:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the database. I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:00:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 00:12:17 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:12:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> Hi John, Try AllowSpecialKeys notice the ending s I presume you are aware without a password all a bad guy needs to do is open a new mdb and import all stuff, if his show hidden objects is checked? Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full > menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 00:18:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:18:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the database. I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other > than through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a > db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup > "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 00:19:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:19:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you using here? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other > than through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a > db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup > "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:23:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:23:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > As an aside - why do you need this level of security? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I > added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button > to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, > query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show > hidden objects" when my init code runs. > > No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at > any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to > use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the > database. > > I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and > Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see > absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. > > So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the > two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight > physical security on the distributed app. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:28:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:28:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD89F0D.4000305@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, yes I know just how wussy Access security is. Like most locks, the objective is to keep the honest people honest. We all lock our doors when we leave home but it doesn't even slow down a burglar. The vast majority of users haven't a clue about how to get around security. The objective is to prevent them from stumbling into the tables or code etc. where they could do serious damage. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:12 AM, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi John, > > Try AllowSpecialKeys notice the ending s > > I presume you are aware without a password all a bad guy needs to do is open > a new mdb and import all stuff, if his show hidden objects is checked? > > Bill > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than >> through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar >> Set db = CurrentDb >> If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily >> write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you >> selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a >> "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display >> hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full >> menus", >> Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:36:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:36:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD8A0F0.50306@colbyconsulting.com> 2003. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:44:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:44:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 01:17:10 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:17:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com><120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Hi again, I guess I didn't make it clear Rocky's code ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False I believe the correct code is keys not key. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 02:01:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 17:01:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com>, <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The singular version has always worked for me. -- Stuart On 21 May 2011 at 23:17, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are > > you using here? > > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access > > Lockdown > > > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from > > working. Any clues why? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> John: > >> > >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > >> > >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > >> > >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > >> > >> Set dbs = CurrentDb > >> On Error GoTo Change_Err > >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > >> ChangeProperty = True > >> > >> Change_Bye: > >> Exit Function > >> > >> Change_Err: > >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > >> varPropType, varPropValue) > >> dbs.Properties.Append prp > >> Resume Next > >> Else > >> ' Unknown error. > >> ChangeProperty = False > >> Resume Change_Bye > >> End If > >> End Function > >> > >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app > >> other than through my own menus: > >> > >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" > >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On > >> Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > >> End If > >> > >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you > >> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties > >> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > >> > >> HTH > >> > >> Rocky > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers > >> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > >> > >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev > >> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system > >> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well > >> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > >> > >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 22 03:04:18 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 18:04:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net>, Message-ID: <201105220805.p4M851RO012802@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Yes, I have seen this from Thunderbird before, again it was ISP related. Had to point to a different server at the ISP in the end. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin [rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Saturday, 21 May 2011 6:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 08:08:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:08:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com><120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD90AB5.6000606@colbyconsulting.com> Bill, > I guess I didn't make it clear http://support.microsoft.com/kb/826765 Which is fascinating because notice that it specifically says you are ADDING that property to the database. When I executed the following: ?CurrentProject.Properties("AllowBypassKey") in a database where I had not done that, it came back with an error (property not found). After doing this: CurrentProject.Properties.Add "AllowBypassKey", False and *then* doing this: ?CurrentProject.Properties("AllowBypassKey") it came back 0. Which tells me that the AllowBypass property doesn't exist unless you make it. Even then however it doesn't prevent my database from opening bypassed. Hmmm... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 2:17 AM, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you >> using here? >> >> Rocky >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. >> Any clues why? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >>> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 08:18:14 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 06:18:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you securing that? Are you distributing an mde? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > As an aside - why do you need this level of security? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. > I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then > a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every > single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that > cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. > > No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't > get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty > much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them > from outside of the database. > > I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy > and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and > see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. > > So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button > for the two library files and the application file and I have > reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 10:54:13 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:54:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com>, <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, You are correct, I was reading the line above AllowByPassKey, AllowSpecialKeys which has an s in my code. My apologies to John for my vertical dyslexia. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart McLachlan" Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 12:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The singular version has always worked for me. -- Stuart On 21 May 2011 at 23:17, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are > > you using here? > > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access > > Lockdown > > > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from > > working. Any clues why? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> John: > >> > >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > >> > >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > >> > >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > >> > >> Set dbs = CurrentDb > >> On Error GoTo Change_Err > >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > >> ChangeProperty = True > >> > >> Change_Bye: > >> Exit Function > >> > >> Change_Err: > >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > >> varPropType, varPropValue) > >> dbs.Properties.Append prp > >> Resume Next > >> Else > >> ' Unknown error. > >> ChangeProperty = False > >> Resume Change_Bye > >> End If > >> End Function > >> > >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app > >> other than through my own menus: > >> > >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" > >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On > >> Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > >> End If > >> > >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you > >> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties > >> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > >> > >> HTH > >> > >> Rocky > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers > >> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > >> > >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev > >> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system > >> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well > >> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > >> > >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 22 12:33:48 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 10:33:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM In-Reply-To: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9FE9340ED3C34CC9B390266DF0AB834D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: You have to control it at the router end where you can create any number of virtual servers and assign, names, internal addresses, public/private ports, protocols etc. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible a workstation running out on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM running but it was part of my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able to access it remote desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is using stored info and assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can from my internal network. I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel through the firewall. Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 20:29:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 21:29:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown > users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 21:36:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 22:36:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9C849.4060908@colbyconsulting.com> As it happens the BE is probably the most secure of the lot (at least in terms of unauthorized users) for the simple reason that it comes in to my server over a Hamachi VPN. The user has to have Hamachi installed on their machine and have to be joined to the Hamachi network specific to that application. I have to invite the user to join the network and after they apply I have to authorize their joining the network. So yes, "the bad guy" can get at the data tables directly on the machine that I have authorized on the network, but if they move it (a linked FE) to another machine they cannot get in. All for naught if I cannot get the bypass key disabled, assuming that "the bad guy" knows about the bypass key. I still haven't figured out why the bypass key works even when I have a "DisableBypassKey" property set to false on the application - and on my libraries as well for that matter. I have also password protected the code modules, though as we all know these passwords are easily cracked by those of us with knowledge. I will eventually investigate whether I can programmatically compile MDB/A files to MDB, IOW copy to the destination then turn them into an MDE, all from an outside Access application like my C2DbProperties. Every little roadblock makes it that much more difficult to go where they should not go. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown > users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:01:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:01:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the application and it in fact does disable the bypass key. Once executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that property correctly works from my external tool as well. So se por que. jwc Function ap_DisableShift() 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes 'the Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. On Error GoTo errDisableShift Dim db As DAO.Database Dim prop as DAO.Property Const conPropNotFound = 3270 Set db = CurrentDb() 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False 'The function is successful. Exit Function errDisableShift: 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, False) db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End If End Function Function ap_EnableShift() 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed 'if the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. On Error GoTo errEnableShift Dim db as DAO.Database Dim prop as DAO.Property Const conPropNotFound = 3270 Set db = CurrentDb() 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True 'function successful Exit Function errEnableShift: 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, True) db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End If End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you >> securing that? >> >> Are you distributing an mde? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown >> users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >>> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >>> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >>> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >>> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >>> >>> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >>> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >>> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >>> from outside of the database. >>> >>> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >>> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >>> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >>> >>> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >>> for the two library files and the application file and I have >>> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>>> John: >>>> >>>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>>> >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>>> >>>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>>> >>>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>>> ChangeProperty = True >>>> >>>> Change_Bye: >>>> Exit Function >>>> >>>> Change_Err: >>>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>>> Resume Next >>>> Else >>>> ' Unknown error. >>>> ChangeProperty = False >>>> Resume Change_Bye >>>> End If >>>> End Function >>>> >>>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>>> than through my own menus: >>>> >>>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>>> End If >>>> >>>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> Rocky >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>>> >>>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>>> >>>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 22:15:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 20:15:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not try to find a way to change the data? Or in their environment do they need to protect the data from mischief or deliberate alteration of the data outside of the mandated procedures? What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by > unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid >> every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the >> application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you >>> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties >>> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev >>> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system >>> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well >>> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:17:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:17:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> Interestingly... My C2DbProperties application can read the values out and display them in check boxes. AllowBreakIntoCode is not being toggled true false as I toggle its check box, remaining always cleared. I wonder if this is the same issue as I had with AllowByPassKey, needing to be run from inside of the database container before it will work from outside of the container. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:01 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. > > I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the application and it in fact does > disable the bypass key. Once executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that > property correctly works from my external tool as well. > > So se por que. > > jwc > > Function ap_DisableShift() > 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes > 'the Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. > > On Error GoTo errDisableShift > > Dim db As DAO.Database > Dim prop as DAO.Property > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False > > 'The function is successful. > Exit Function > > errDisableShift: > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > 'property if it does not exist. > If Err = conPropNotFound Then > Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ > dbBoolean, False) > db.Properties.Append prop > Resume Next > Else > MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." > Exit Function > End If > > End Function > > Function ap_EnableShift() > 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes > 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed > 'if the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. > > On Error GoTo errEnableShift > > Dim db as DAO.Database > Dim prop as DAO.Property > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True > > 'function successful > Exit Function > > errEnableShift: > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > 'property if it does not exist. > If Err = conPropNotFound Then > Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ > dbBoolean, True) > db.Properties.Append prop > Resume Next > Else > MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." > Exit Function > End If > > End Function From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:40:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:40:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> > If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? If they are directly on the machine with the FE, they have access to the network and thus to the SQL Server data. All they have to be smart enough to do is copy the tables into an unsecured Access container. OTOH if they "walk away" with the FE and try to access the data on the server, they cannot do so because they have to be a member of the Hamachi network for that application which they will not be. > But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not try to find a way to change the data? Asking the client and asking the user are two different questions to two (or many) different people. I was walking through a client's office one day and saw a user in the FE in design view trying to modify a (linked) table. I asked her what she was doing. She had been sent to an access class, and had "decided" that she needed a couple of fields in an existing table so there she was trying to add them. In a linked table! In a FE which was downloaded to her machine every day. Just goes to show many things. 1) The client said users would not do such a thing. 2) The user was busy trying to do just such a thing. 3) The user was so uneducated that she was trying to modify a linked table on a Fe downloaded fresh to her machine daily. 4) She was still trying to do something that the "client" said was not going to happen. The developer's job is to idiot proof the application. The universe's job is to build better idiots. Which has the most experience? Luckily these are not medical applications or the like but still, the machines will exist "out on the internet somewhere". It is appropriate to tighten them up as much as possible. > What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? All of these applications are on user machines wherever the machine may reside. It access data on a SQL server in my office, via a Hamachi VPN HUB AND SPOKE network specific to each application. IOW "environment unknown". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they > be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? > > But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by > the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the > rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not > try to find a way to change the data? > > Or in their environment do they need to protect the data from mischief or > deliberate alteration of the data outside of the mandated procedures? > > What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? > > > R From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 22:43:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:43:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the code has the by-product of disabling "Break Into Code". -- Stuart On 22 May 2011 at 23:17, jwcolby wrote: > Interestingly... My C2DbProperties application can read the values out > and display them in check boxes. AllowBreakIntoCode is not being > toggled true false as I toggle its check box, remaining always > cleared. I wonder if this is the same issue as I had with > AllowByPassKey, needing to be run from inside of the database > container before it will work from outside of the container. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 11:01 PM, jwcolby wrote: > > Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. > > > > I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the > > application and it in fact does disable the bypass key. Once > > executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that > > property correctly works from my external tool as well. > > > > So se por que. > > > > jwc > > > > Function ap_DisableShift() > > 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes 'the > > Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. > > > > On Error GoTo errDisableShift > > > > Dim db As DAO.Database > > Dim prop as DAO.Property > > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > > > 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. > > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False > > > > 'The function is successful. > > Exit Function > > > > errDisableShift: > > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > > 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set > > prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, False) > > db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function > > 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End > > If > > > > End Function > > > > Function ap_EnableShift() > > 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes > > 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed 'if > > the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. > > > > On Error GoTo errEnableShift > > > > Dim db as DAO.Database > > Dim prop as DAO.Property > > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > > > 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. > > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True > > > > 'function successful > > Exit Function > > > > errEnableShift: > > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > > 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set > > prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, True) > > db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function > > 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End > > If > > > > End Function > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:53:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:53:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> Really! Yes it is, and of course it does. ;) Hmm... never considered that. So can the password protection be set programmatically from outside of the container? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the code has the by-product > of disabling "Break Into Code". > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 23:12:44 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:12:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. -- Stuart On 22 May 2011 at 23:53, jwcolby wrote: > Really! Yes it is, and of course it does. ;) Hmm... never > considered that. So can the password protection be set > programmatically from outside of the container? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 11:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the > > code has the by-product of disabling "Break Into Code". > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon May 23 02:34:28 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:34:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> John Just out of interest. You are spending a lot of time and effort locking the data from Access. How do you deal with access from other applications for example Excel etc Martin From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 05:36:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 06:36:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4DDA38AA.4080202@colbyconsulting.com> There isn't any such access. The data is accessed over odbc to SQL Server with a user name / password and hitting a specific IP:port. In order for the user to set up such access they will have to discover the username/pw for the sql server database, the IP:port, and of course be a member of the network if doing so from another computer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 3:34 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > John > > Just out of interest. You are spending a lot of time and effort locking the data from Access. How do you deal with access from other applications for example Excel etc > > Martin > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 07:06:59 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:06:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDA4DE3.9050705@colbyconsulting.com> Changing it is setting it. Do you have the code available? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" > application which does exactly that > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be > writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it > yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the > same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 08:22:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 09:22:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" > application which does exactly that > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be > writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it > yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the > same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 08:49:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 09:49:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? for example... ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password boxers and clicking the button. ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDSysTabControl32) 'Move to Protection tab SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project Properties dialog hWndLockProject = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) ' Lock project for &viewing SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 ' &Password SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword ' &Confirm password SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and > clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, >> >> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" >> application which does exactly that >> >> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. >> >> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be >> writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it >> yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the >> same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 09:53:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:53:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> Using this code I succeeded in opening my two frameworks and setting the module passwords in those, however doing so in the application causes the app to open and the startup code to run, which opens a login form (as it should on opening). It's always something! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 9:49 AM, jwcolby wrote: > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? for example... > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause it to go to the correct tab, > enter data into the password boxers and clicking the button. > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > 'Move to Protection tab > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. > EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) > ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project Properties dialog > hWndLockProject = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > ' Lock project for &viewing > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > ' &Password > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > ' &Confirm password > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. >> >> http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html >> >> It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and >> clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, >>> >>> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" >>> application which does exactly that >>> >>> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. >>> >>> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be >>> writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it >>> yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the >>> same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. >>> >>> From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 23 09:57:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:57:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> <> One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, _ ByVal lParam As Long) As Long Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As _ Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. Dim windows() As Long ' The number of elements in the array. Dim windowsCount As Long Sub getWindows() Dim lnghwnd As Long lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) End Sub ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) windowsCount = 0 If hWnd Then EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 Else EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 End If ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long End Function ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As _ Long Dim slength As Long Dim buffer As String Dim retval As Variant Dim classname As String ' Make room in the array, if necessary. If windowsCount = 0 Then ReDim windows(100) As Long ElseIf windowsCount >= UBound(windows) Then ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long End If ' Store the new item. windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 windows(windowsCount) = hWnd slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated window Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text of enumerated window classname = Space(255) slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname Debug.Print ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. EnumWindows_CBK = 1 End Function <> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 10:22:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 11:22:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> Message-ID: <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> Holy cow! It would appear that you have done this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 10:57 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < for example...>> > > > One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: > > Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, > _ > ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As > _ > Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > > Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias > "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long > Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" > (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As > Long > Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal > hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long > > ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure > ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine > > ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. > Dim windows() As Long > ' The number of elements in the array. > Dim windowsCount As Long > > > > > Sub getWindows() > > Dim lnghwnd As Long > > lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) > > Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) > > End Sub > > > ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows > ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. > > Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) > windowsCount = 0 > If hWnd Then > EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > Else > EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > End If > ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long > > End Function > > ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. > > Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) > As _ > Long > > Dim slength As Long > Dim buffer As String > Dim retval As Variant > Dim classname As String > > ' Make room in the array, if necessary. > If windowsCount = 0 Then > ReDim windows(100) As Long > ElseIf windowsCount>= UBound(windows) Then > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long > End If > ' Store the new item. > windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 > windows(windowsCount) = hWnd > slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text > buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer > retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text > Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated > window > Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd > Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text > of enumerated window > classname = Space(255) > slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) > classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space > Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname > Debug.Print > > ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. > EnumWindows_CBK = 1 > End Function > > > <> > From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon May 23 12:13:07 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 12:13:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> John, You have to create the property before you can set the property. At 12:01 AM 5/22/2011, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from >working. Any clues why? > >John W. Colby From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 12:31:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:31:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> References: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4DDA99E1.3030904@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. All of the other properties already existed so I was not looking for a property to not already be there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 1:13 PM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You have to create the property before you can set the property. > > > At 12:01 AM 5/22/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? >> >> John W. Colby From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 23 13:05:29 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:05:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <62A858BFF1C64B3AA9362641B80C124E@XPS> Not this specifically no, but I play around with the Windows API stuff when I get the chance. Right now I'm working on two things: 1. How to change the main Access window in 2007 & up. 2. How to make a form dockable (or at least simulate it). To do that I have a bunch of generic routines to poke around under the hood. Couple that with Process Explorer and it's amazing some of the stuff you can do or manipulate. But it's more of a hobby thing for me and I usually get myself in more trouble then it's worth. What started this is seeing "Printing on the Fly" by ATTAC Consulting years ago; I was simply amazed what they could do with API calls from within Access/VBA (hiding the properties dialog is what originally caught my eye). That and I've always wanted to get into systems programming. BTW, I tripped over this today looking for something else, which is really cool and will be interesting to everyone I'm sure (watch the wrap): http://blog.nkadesign.com/2008/ms-access-modal-dialogs-with-transparent-back grounds/ Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Holy cow! It would appear that you have done this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 10:57 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < for example...>> > > > One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: > > Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, > _ > ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As > _ > Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > > Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias > "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long > Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" > (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As > Long > Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal > hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long > > ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure > ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine > > ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. > Dim windows() As Long > ' The number of elements in the array. > Dim windowsCount As Long > > > > > Sub getWindows() > > Dim lnghwnd As Long > > lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) > > Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) > > End Sub > > > ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows > ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. > > Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) > windowsCount = 0 > If hWnd Then > EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > Else > EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > End If > ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long > > End Function > > ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. > > Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) > As _ > Long > > Dim slength As Long > Dim buffer As String > Dim retval As Variant > Dim classname As String > > ' Make room in the array, if necessary. > If windowsCount = 0 Then > ReDim windows(100) As Long > ElseIf windowsCount>= UBound(windows) Then > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long > End If > ' Store the new item. > windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 > windows(windowsCount) = hWnd > slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text > buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer > retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text > Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated > window > Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd > Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text > of enumerated window > classname = Space(255) > slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) > classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space > Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname > Debug.Print > > ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. > EnumWindows_CBK = 1 > End Function > > > <> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:03:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:03:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAAF9D.23921.2A7E8FC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'm aware of that technique. It's actually a lot easier to do that sort of thing using AutoIt. That is exactly what AutoIt was designed for and you don't need to use API messages to do it. But it's still a kludge. :-) -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 9:22, jwcolby wrote: > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and > then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > Actually cool stuff to know. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > > I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > > > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > > password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere > > in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after > > entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar > > utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a > > PW is a far more difficult task. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:06:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:06:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAB01C.25517.2A807DF4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> He used Spy++. It is one of a number of similar utilities that let you get all the info about any Windows control by hovering over it or clicking on it. AutoIt comes with a similar tool called AutoInfo. -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 9:49, jwcolby wrote: > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? > for example... > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties > dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDPassword) > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause > it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password boxers and > clicking the button. > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > 'Move to Protection tab > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab > changed. EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, > AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties > dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDPassword) ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit > control in Project Properties dialog hWndConfirmPassword = > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' > Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project > Properties dialog hWndLockProject = > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > ' Lock project for &viewing > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > ' &Password > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > strPassword > > ' &Confirm password > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > strPassword > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and > > then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > > Actually cool stuff to know. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > >> > >> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > >> I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > >> > >> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > >> > >> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > >> password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere > >> in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after > >> entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities > >> work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a > >> far more difficult task. > >> > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:08:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:08:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Like I said just now - it's a kludge. It only works under certain conditions, and is certainly not a foolproof technique for setting/unsetting PW protection on code :-( -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 10:53, jwcolby wrote: > Using this code I succeeded in opening my two frameworks and setting > the module passwords in those, however doing so in the application > causes the app to open and the startup code to run, which opens a > login form (as it should on opening). > > It's always something! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:49 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the > > objects? for example... > > > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > > > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to > > cause it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password > > boxers and clicking the button. > > > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > > ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > > > 'Move to Protection tab > > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. > > EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf > > EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties > > dialog hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > > ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox > > control in Project Properties dialog hWndLockProject = > > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > > > ' Lock project for &viewing > > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > > > ' &Password > > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > > > ' &Confirm password > > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > > strPassword > > > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > >> > >> http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > >> > >> It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up > >> and then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > >> Actually cool stuff to know. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >>> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do > >>> that, > >>> > >>> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > >>> I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > >>> > >>> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > >>> > >>> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > >>> password (possibly just be writing a different hash value > >>> somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself > >>> after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar > >>> utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a > >>> PW is a far more difficult task. > >>> > >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 15:23:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 16:23:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Access security is a kludge. By definition anything attempting to do this is a kludge since there is no direct method of doing so. I am reasonably certain I could work around this specific problem by doing things in specific order, Setting the code password then setting the AllowBypassKey true, setting the code password then setting the code password then setting the AllowBypassKey false. I am really trying to leave my dev copies totally unprotected but when I copy set all of the protection on them. As far as AutoIT goes, I try very hard to keep my Access manipulation tools developed inside of Access itself since it understands the target Access container and it contains native database objects for storing state and stuff, and native interface objects for displaying said state. Not to mention "starting from scratch" learning an obviously capable and powerful (and thus complex) system. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 3:08 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Like I said just now - it's a kludge. It only works under certain conditions, and is certainly not > a foolproof technique for setting/unsetting PW protection on code :-( > > From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 16:49:41 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 14:49:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 24 17:09:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 08:09:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> Message-ID: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 17:18:30 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 15:18:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 24 19:10:39 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 10:10:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> Message-ID: <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 19:53:04 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:53:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 24 20:23:23 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:23:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so it hasn't been as big a deal. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 24 20:38:28 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:38:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> Message-ID: <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> You can use the database documenter select all forms, Under Include for Sections and Controls, pick Names and Properties (note if you have named your subforms with Subfrm in the controls' name, you only need to pick Names If you had to pick Names and Properties, then click the Properties button and deselect all but "Other Properties" to make things a little less voluminous. You can export the results to Word (or Excel if you think it will fit -- probably Excel 2007+ will have enough vertical space) Look for Subform/Subreport: [names will appear after these characters] The hard part is keeping track of what Form the control is on... a macro might help -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 24 20:47:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 11:47:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I gave up on shared subforms a long time ago - had too many situations where new requirements meant that the same sub-form no longer worked on both master forms. Like you , I try to keep event procedures down to simple function calls with all the grunt work done in standard modules. -- Stuart On 24 May 2011 at 21:23, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I > suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find > keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. > > Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored > in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so > it hasn't been as big a deal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create > list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > > > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine > > out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 24 21:28:29 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:28:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com>, <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105250229.p4P2TXLB002589@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ That is a great approach. Using regular modules also makes the code much easier to transfer to another app with little or minor changes. If you are using form code that is not always as easy to do. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan [stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 11:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I gave up on shared subforms a long time ago - had too many situations where new requirements meant that the same sub-form no longer worked on both master forms. Like you , I try to keep event procedures down to simple function calls with all the grunt work done in standard modules. -- Stuart On 24 May 2011 at 21:23, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I > suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find > keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. > > Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored > in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so > it hasn't been as big a deal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create > list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > > > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine > > out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 25 08:22:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 09:22:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> Message-ID: <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... > 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, > 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, > 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, > 4. close each form > If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. > > BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some > other places. > Your other brother, > Darrell > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If > you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick > Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the > free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in > about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > [dhb at flsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies > subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > >> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out >> there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 25 09:32:23 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 10:32:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> >>" probably the only way to do it" Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... Bill -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... > 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, > 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls > for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more > straightforward way, I'm still interested. > > BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in > some other places. > Your other brother, > Darrell > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > > > Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at > you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick > Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the > free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself > in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > [dhb at flsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > >> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action > in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than > the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 25 11:54:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:54:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> Bill, Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought this was regarding subforms in Access. What in the heck is the doc/xls? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>> " probably the only way to do it" > Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to write a > once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines in the output > doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. > > Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since > the subforms aren't bound until runtime. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, >> 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls >> for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more >> straightforward way, I'm still interested. >> >> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >> some other places. >> Your other brother, >> Darrell >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >> Collins >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom >> of this message. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> >> >> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" > by Rick >> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the >> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >> [dhb at flsi.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >> list :-) >> >> frmMain >> frmMain_subCustomersList >> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >> >> >> >>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >> addressed. >> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >> review, >> >> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action >> in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than >> the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >> >> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >> >> This message has been scanned for viruses. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 25 14:15:55 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:15:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02e401cc1b10$2c7d7d30$85787790$@com> Bill, This isn't going to be a one-time process. Here's how I use it: On StartUp, I fill global arrays with each form/subform's name, RecordSource, and whether the RecordSource is a temp table. Since I make heavy use of tabbed subforms, I bind them to temp tables that are filled on the fly. I call a function that checks the RecordSource array to tell me which temp table needs to be filled. I had this logic hard-coded on each master form before, but now it's a shared procedure and is much easier to add new forms. Another advantage is that I can fill the subform tables before I load the form. - Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms You can use the database documenter select all forms, Under Include for Sections and Controls, pick Names and Properties (note if you have named your subforms with Subfrm in the controls' name, you only need to pick Names If you had to pick Names and Properties, then click the Properties button and deselect all but "Other Properties" to make things a little less voluminous. You can export the results to Word (or Excel if you think it will fit -- probably Excel 2007+ will have enough vertical space) Look for Subform/Subreport: [names will appear after these characters] The hard part is keeping track of what Form the control is on... a macro might help -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 25 15:01:00 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 16:01:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> John, Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get the details you want. I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend one, it would be Allforms lol) Bill -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms Bill, Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought this was regarding subforms in Access. What in the heck is the doc/xls? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>> " probably the only way to do it" > Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to > write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines > in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. > > Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms > since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >> still interested. >> >> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >> some other places. >> Your other brother, >> Darrell >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >> Collins >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >> bottom of this message. >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> >> >> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" > by Rick >> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the >> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >> [dhb at flsi.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >> list :-) >> >> frmMain >> frmMain_subCustomersList >> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >> >> >> >>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >> addressed. >> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >> review, >> >> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >> >> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >> >> This message has been scanned for viruses. >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 26 05:08:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 06:08:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform controls at runtime. I call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that control does not have a subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different subforms into the same subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The upshot is that the documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick these up. I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > John, > > Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible > ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with > Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative > > The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel > file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get > the details you want. > > I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend > one, it would be Allforms lol) > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > Bill, > > Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought > this was regarding subforms in Access. > > What in the heck is the doc/xls? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>> " probably the only way to do it" >> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >> >> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>> still interested. >>> >>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>> some other places. >>> Your other brother, >>> Darrell >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>> bottom of this message. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> >>> >>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >> by Rick >>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use > the >>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>> list :-) >>> >>> frmMain >>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>> >>> >>> >>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>> addressed. >>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>> review, >>> >>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>> >>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>> >>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>> >>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu May 26 11:25:05 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:25:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007+ 64-bit unanticipated problem Message-ID: Like many others on this list, I have come to value MzTools as absolutely indispensable. However, I have recently discovered that it will not run in a 64-bit environment (unless I install Office 32-bit, which I am reluctant to do). The author of MzTools has declared his intention never to do a 64-bit version. Bummer! So now I'm reduced to copying the headers and error handlers from old procedures to new ones, or alternatively, Saving the App in 32-bit version, running MzTools there, and copying the generated code and documentation back to the 64-bit version. Either way, it sucks. Unlike some developers here, I have committed to the 64-bit version, and believe that the days of 32-bit are numbered. So I may ultimately be forced to reverse-engineer MzTools, revise some portions I'm less than happy with, and release something called ArtfulToolsVBA64. Well, now that I'm semi-retired, with just one remaining client (who is undyingly faithful), perhaps I've got the time available to embark on this project. So, a word of caution: either don't commit to the new format or install a 32-bit version of Office so this problem won't arise. Sadly, Arthur From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 26 13:26:05 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:26:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 13:36:51 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:36:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 26 13:56:53 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:56:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu May 26 13:56:07 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:56:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: All, Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. I have never experimented with this area before. We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the date that the Email was sent. I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure where to start. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Brad From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:09:23 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:09:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: http://www.helenfeddema.com/ Helen's the automation queen as far as I'm concerned. Have fun! Susan H. > All, > > Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. > > I have never experimented with this area before. > > We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the > date that the Email was sent. > > I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure > where to start. > > Any advice would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:32:17 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:32:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com><9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and enter the string to id the patient? Susan H. > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to > track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked > them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying > yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return > and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll > need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 26 14:34:47 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:34:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> John, Are your JIT subforms pre-bound to a table or query, or do you create the recordsource on the fly? DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform controls at runtime. I call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that control does not have a subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different subforms into the same subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The upshot is that the documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick these up. I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > John, > > Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible > ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with > Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative > > The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel > file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get > the details you want. > > I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend > one, it would be Allforms lol) > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > Bill, > > Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought > this was regarding subforms in Access. > > What in the heck is the doc/xls? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>> " probably the only way to do it" >> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >> >> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>> still interested. >>> >>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>> some other places. >>> Your other brother, >>> Darrell >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>> bottom of this message. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> >>> >>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >> by Rick >>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use > the >>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>> list :-) >>> >>> frmMain >>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>> >>> >>> >>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>> addressed. >>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>> review, >>> >>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>> >>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>> >>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>> >>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 26 14:53:06 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:53:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Hi John. Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. And the DOB should always be in YYYYMMDD order. As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. HTH, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 11:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [Spam]8.31 Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:58:55 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:58:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins><4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: I agree John -- hence my questions. I don't think this custom id is necessary and is apt to cause you trouble. Susan H. > Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other > words, > a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his > surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead > of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the > same > key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a > unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You > may > want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be > indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build > an > index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. And the DOB should always be in > YYYYMMDD order. > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu May 26 15:13:54 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:13:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in trouble. Charlotte Foust On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM, John Clark wrote: > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. > >>>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> >> 1) >> The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique >> identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. ?The only personal data I am >> getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This >> is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from >> infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. >> >> The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 >> letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle >> initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits >> of DoB. >> >> For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be >> assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 >> >> It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just >> looking for opinions on this... > > > =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If > you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to > all this trouble? > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From markamatte at hotmail.com Thu May 26 15:26:35 2011 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 20:26:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, Message-ID: I am also doing quite a bit with company/individual name and address matching...and you gave the perfect example that causes issues: Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 Age 5 Joe comes in...age 10 Joseph comes in...age 14...he switched to using his middle name in high school. I don't remember who suggested it...but I liked the idea of the lookup in the interface to choose the existing patient. Mark A. Matte > Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:13:54 -0700 > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for > yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they > need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a > fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of > the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the > one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but > that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. > They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in > trouble. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM, John Clark > wrote: > > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. > > > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. > > > >>>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > >> 1) > >> The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > >> identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > >> getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > >> is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > >> infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > >> > >> The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > >> letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > >> initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > >> of DoB. > >> > >> For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > >> assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > >> > >> It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > >> looking for opinions on this... > > > > > > =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If > > you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to > > all this trouble? > > > > Susan H. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu May 26 15:35:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:35:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> John, <> You need to: 1. Use an auto number as the "primary key" for the table. 2. Add an additional index on the table based on the last name, first name, middle init and DOB (this is the true primary key). You should never use parts of field as part of a key. It's the whole field or nothing. 3. Provide a lookup in the interface for the user to select the right person based on the true primary key. The auto number just gains you performance within the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 02:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Thu May 26 15:40:27 2011 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:40:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> Message-ID: For tracking here we use gender, date of Birth, last 4 of the ssn, first two letters of the last name (Birth name) My tracking ID would be 1091319490687TE Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 4:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions John, <> You need to: 1. Use an auto number as the "primary key" for the table. 2. Add an additional index on the table based on the last name, first name, middle init and DOB (this is the true primary key). You should never use parts of field as part of a key. It's the whole field or nothing. 3. Provide a lookup in the interface for the user to select the right person based on the true primary key. The auto number just gains you performance within the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 02:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 15:48:21 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:48:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, Message-ID: <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> The same problem will exist with a lookup interface, but the potential error will be more obvious--hopefully. If you force the user to create the id on the fly, they're liable to generate an id that exists for someone else and never even know it. Joe T Murphy born on Dec 7th, 1994 Tom M Murphy albo born on Dec 7, 1994 So Joe T. comes in at 14 and gives his name as Tom Murphy, the user plugs in MURTO?120794 which pulls up MURTOM120794 when Joe's id is actually MURJOT120794 but the user isn't paying attention and loads away...of course, you could build in protection, but the potential's there. You'll have the same problem with a lookup interface, but at least, it will be more obvious that there's more than one Murphy on the same birthdate -- not sure how to avoid a problem like this other than having other than forcing the user to ask for more information when there's more than one record that might fulfill a request. "I have two Murphy's born on that date -- can I have your full name please?" -- interesting problem. Don't these folks have a patient id? How would the dentist in question identify the two patients -- what criteria are they currently using? I have this sort of problem a lot -- even when I write my name down, people have trouble with it and want to pull up records for Susan Hawkins, Susan Parkins, Susan Haskins -- happens to me all the time. So, this is really more than a database design problem. Susan H. > > I am also doing quite a bit with company/individual name and address > matching...and you gave the perfect example that causes issues: > Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 > > Age 5 Joe comes in...age 10 Joseph comes in...age 14...he switched to > using his middle name in high school. > > I don't remember who suggested it...but I liked the idea of the lookup in > the interface to choose the existing patient. > >> >> What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for >> yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they >> need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a >> fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of >> the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the >> one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but >> that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. >> They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in >> trouble. >> >> Charlotte Foust From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu May 26 18:30:13 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 01:30:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <0C4789195145441983C735DCD931CF4B@abpc> John, For once a question, I'm fit to answer - the dumb one ;-) Office Button -> Access Options -> Current Database -> Select "Overlapping Windows" instead of "Tabbed Documents" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af John Clark Sendt: 26. maj 2011 20:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Thu May 26 22:15:18 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:15:18 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] HyperlinkAddress Message-ID: New to me: OnClick of a form's command button has this - Me.btnName.HyperlinkAddress = "http://fs3/truck/rptTruckPortAll.asp" I presume that the asp is on a server somewhere. I have a local copy which is a text file containing vbScript (looks like ADO connection strings) followed by HTML for the layout of the data. The customer has a brand new Server configuration so this has broken. I assume all I need to do is to get them to give me the new location and replace the code line above? Stephen Bond From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 26 22:38:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 13:38:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] HyperlinkAddress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDF1CD1.12481.EFB35EC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That should work as long as the ADO connection strings are still correct. However if they have reconfigured servers, you may need to change the connection strings in the .asp file to point to wherever the data is now as well. -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 15:15, Stephen Bond wrote: > New to me: > > OnClick of a form's command button has this - > > Me.btnName.HyperlinkAddress = > "http://fs3/truck/rptTruckPortAll.asp" > > I presume that the asp is on a server somewhere. I have a local copy > which is a text file containing vbScript (looks like ADO connection > strings) followed by HTML for the layout of the data. The customer > has a brand new Server configuration so this has broken. I assume all > I need to do is to get them to give me the new location and replace > the code line above? > > Stephen Bond > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 27 00:55:46 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 01:55:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). A. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 01:06:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 16:06:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the item concerned or to it's container. Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > are an excellent example). > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri May 27 08:18:47 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , , <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in a dozen or more table relationships is changed. Dan PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the item concerned or to it's container. Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > are an excellent example). > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:24:34 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:24:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com><9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already been there, and what data they provided at that time. And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and enter the string to id the patient? Susan H. > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to > track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked > them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying > yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return > and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll > need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:35:00 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:35:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> >>> "Darrell Burns" 5/26/2011 3:53 P >>> Hi John. Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. *** You bring up good points, but this is all the info I have to work with. But, I will probably change to include more of the first name, and maybe even the last name too. *** I do use the autonumber in the table; I am just using this one for searching and tracking purposes. *** If '49 was entered for the birthday it would kick it out, because the person is too old for the survey. But, I understand your point, and in my case it is a minimal risk of error...there is immediate feedback on age, so it would probably stick out, if it weren't close. And, I may build in some validation features as well. *** the adoption...or change of use of MI...did occur to me, but I really don't have many other options. And the DOB should always be in YYYYMMDD order. *** Why? Seriously...I am not challenging your claim, but I'd really like to learn about this. What does the order really matter? It isn't a big deal to change this, but before I do things like this I like to know why...so w/I am asked I don't just confess to being a blind follower. As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. *** Thank you...I did not know this and it was driving me nuts. HTH, Darrell ----- From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:37:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:37:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDFB711.6070708@colbyconsulting.com> I second the autonumber as the (surrogate) PK but I use a hash (discussed previously) to hash the full name and DOB (in this case) to get as unique an identifier as you possibly can boiled down to a single field. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 2:26 PM, John Clark wrote: > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... > > 2) > This one is a dumb one... > > I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? > > Thanks...J Clark From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:41:07 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:41:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DDF7FC30200006B0001FC7B@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 4:48 P >>> The same problem will exist with a lookup interface, but the potential error will be more obvious--hopefully. If you force the user to create the id on the fly, they're liable to generate an id that exists for someone else and never even know it. Joe T Murphy born on Dec 7th, 1994 Tom M Murphy albo born on Dec 7, 1994 So Joe T. comes in at 14 and gives his name as Tom Murphy, the user plugs in MURTO?120794 which pulls up MURTOM120794 when Joe's id is actually MURJOT120794 but the user isn't paying attention and loads away...of course, you could build in protection, but the potential's there. *** Well, then Joe would be a damn liar, eh?! ;o) *** Seriously though, how could I possibly account for someone giving me the wrong name...w/out having a SSN? Anybody can come in and tell us anything. You'll have the same problem with a lookup interface, but at least, it will be more obvious that there's more than one Murphy on the same birthdate -- not sure how to avoid a problem like this other than having other than forcing the user to ask for more information when there's more than one record that might fulfill a request. "I have two Murphy's born on that date -- can I have your full name please?" -- interesting problem. *** I've already been thinking about something like this...just if it comes up that it is already an entered name/ID. But, I probably wouldn't bother, unless in conflicted. Don't these folks have a patient id? How would the dentist in question identify the two patients -- what criteria are they currently using? *** There is no dentist involved actually. This is just a program through the health department, for tracking. I have this sort of problem a lot -- even when I write my name down, people have trouble with it and want to pull up records for Susan Hawkins, Susan Parkins, Susan Haskins -- happens to me all the time. So, this is really more than a database design problem. *** Oh, believe me...w/your name is "John Clark" you know all about this...hell, I've almost gotten arrested over it. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:41:29 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:41:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> Message-ID: <4DDFB819.7010900@colbyconsulting.com> Usually they are bound to a query. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 3:34 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > John, > Are your JIT subforms pre-bound to a table or query, or do you create the > recordsource on the fly? > DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform > controls at runtime. I > call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that > control does not have a > subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different > subforms into the same > subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The > upshot is that the > documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick > these up. > > I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >> John, >> >> Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is > possible >> ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with >> Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative >> >> The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an > Excel >> file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and > get >> the details you want. >> >> I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend >> one, it would be Allforms lol) >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> Bill, >> >> Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought >> this was regarding subforms in Access. >> >> What in the heck is the doc/xls? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>>> " probably the only way to do it" >>> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >>> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >>> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >>> >>> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >>> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>>> still interested. >>>> >>>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>>> some other places. >>>> Your other brother, >>>> Darrell >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>>> Collins >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>>> bottom of this message. >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >>> by Rick >>>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use >> the >>>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>>> list :-) >>>> >>>> frmMain >>>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>>> addressed. >>>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>>> review, >>>> >>>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>>> >>>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>>> >>>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>>> >>>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:44:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:44:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> Uh ohhh... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 1:55 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of Intelligent > Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and Fabian Pascal and the > inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a good thing, in certain > applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). > > A. From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri May 27 09:47:54 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:47:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE2D3@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> This could be a good day on accessd ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions Uh ohhh... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 1:55 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). > > A. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:53:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:53:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption Message-ID: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 10:28:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 01:28:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: , , <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. ? Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash of that info as a key. Then look that up if you are checking for duplicates. It dioesn't have to be user readable. -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already > been there, and what data they provided at that time. > > And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it > is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there > would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. > > >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> > Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually > going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and > enter the string to id the patient? > > Susan H. > > > > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want > > to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I > > asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and > > they are saying yes. > > > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they > > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at > > 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each > > time. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:09:02 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:09:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of said tires a warning that there are potential issues. This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I shall use IKs. A. From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 27 11:13:03 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:13:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Message-ID: Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri May 27 11:20:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:20:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Only if the users have an MDB file that they are working with, and you'd have to open the form (via code) in design mode to make the change and then save it. All very messy. Much simpler way to do this is to save the date in a table. Then when the form opens you can look up the date in the table and then change the label caption. All this can be done in the form's Load event. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:13 PM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 11:36:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:36:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDFD2F5.5030601@colbyconsulting.com> Uhhhh Ohhhhh... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 12:09 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this > topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. > > > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I > tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational > analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which > refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I > don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until > several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need > build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of > said tires a warning that there are potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I > write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I > shall use IKs. > > A. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:52:16 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:52:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I've argued with experts about IKs like social security numbers. Their arguments always seem to boil down to, "Well, they don't USUALLY change, so that's OK." I prefer to violate strict normalization and include an IK that CAN be changed and an autonumber that can't. Then when the IK must be changed (i.e., wrong SSN), the connections among tables aren't lost. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this > topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. > > > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I > tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational > analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which > refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I > don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until > several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need > build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of > said tires a warning that there are potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I > write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I > shall use IKs. > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:55:56 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:55:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: The YYYYMMDD date format always sorts in appropriate date order, regardless of the regional settings on your machine. That's why. You needn't even save it as a date, just a number or string. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 7:35 AM, John Clark wrote: > > >>>> "Darrell Burns" 5/26/2011 3:53 P >>> > Hi John. > Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, > a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his > surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead > of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same > key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a > unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may > want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be > indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an > index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. > > *** You bring up good points, but this is all the info I have to work with. But, I will probably change to include more of the first name, and maybe even the last name too. > > *** I do use the autonumber in the table; I am just using this one for searching and tracking purposes. > > *** If '49 was entered for the birthday it would kick it out, because the person is too old for the survey. But, I understand your point, and in my case it is a minimal risk of error...there is immediate feedback on age, so it would probably stick out, if it weren't close. And, I may build in some validation features as well. > > *** the adoption...or change of use of MI...did occur to me, but I really don't have many other options. > > And the DOB should always be in > YYYYMMDD order. > *** Why? Seriously...I am not challenging your claim, but I'd really like to learn about this. What does the order really matter? It isn't a big deal to change this, but before I do things like this I like to know why...so w/I am asked I don't just confess to being a blind follower. > > As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in > upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current > Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, > there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. > *** Thank you...I did not know this and it was driving me nuts. > > HTH, > Darrell > > ----- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri May 27 11:58:20 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:58:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at the methods and properties that are available. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] redemption We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From phpons at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:22:43 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 19:22:43 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi all, I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. Do you have any experience on that matter? In that case,would you share it with me? TIA, Philippe From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:39:58 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:39:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: The hash could never change in that case. So what happens if the name changes and someone else comes in with the old name? The mantra we always followed in my previous lives was "Always Check For Existing Keys First". Charlotte On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. > ? > > Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash of that info as a key. > Then look that ?up if you are checking for duplicates. ?It dioesn't have to be user readable. > > -- > Stuart > > On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > >> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already >> been there, and what data they provided at that time. >> >> And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it >> is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there >> would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. >> >> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> >> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually >> going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and >> enter the string to id the patient? >> >> Susan H. >> >> >> > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate >> > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want >> > to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I >> > asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and >> > they are saying yes. >> > >> > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they >> > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at >> > 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each >> > time. >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 27 13:18:40 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 14:18:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Lambert, I had mentioned saving the Date and concatenating it, which I think is the best way. However, do you have a reference or a procedure for Opening the Form in design view and modifying the label and saving it. I suppose it could be done as a separate process when the database is closed. I haven't tried opening a form in design mode and modifying with vba. TIA Jack -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Only if the users have an MDB file that they are working with, and you'd have to open the form (via code) in design mode to make the change and then save it. All very messy. Much simpler way to do this is to save the date in a table. Then when the form opens you can look up the date in the table and then change the label caption. All this can be done in the form's Load event. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:13 PM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rls at WeBeDb.com Fri May 27 15:02:38 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:02:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From rls at WeBeDb.com Fri May 27 15:12:53 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:12:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67956FA3-B5AD-4A25-ACB1-ADAE60D8E59F@holly.arvixe.com> And in the case of social service agencies that deal with illegal aliens, the SSN can also be duplicated. I have seen that numerous times working with them on my application. At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:52:16 -0700 >From: Charlotte Foust >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >I've argued with experts about IKs like social security numbers. >Their arguments always seem to boil down to, "Well, they don't USUALLY >change, so that's OK." I prefer to violate strict normalization and >include an IK that CAN be changed and an autonumber that can't. Then >when the IK must be changed (i.e., wrong SSN), the connections among >tables aren't lost. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 17:45:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:45:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4DE0297B.25507.1314BE62@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> There's nothing wrong with using a batch number or other Intelligent Key in your table. Just don't use is as a Primary/Foreign Key for relationships between other tables. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 12:09, Arthur Fuller wrote: > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this > forum, I tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than > rational analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis > Date which refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept > them halfway. I don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, > unless and until several of these instances have caused highway > fatalities. Therefore, I need build this (batch) into the design, so > that I can report to all owners of said tires a warning that there are > potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically > simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app > I write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more > likely I shall use IKs. > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 17:51:43 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:51:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4DE02AFF.7994.131AA7A8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Sub myForm_BeforeUpdate() .. Hash = CalcHash(FName,Lname,MI,DOB) ... End Sub On 27 May 2011 at 10:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > The hash could never change in that case. So what happens if the name > changes and someone else comes in with the old name? The mantra we > always followed in my previous lives was "Always Check For Existing > Keys First". > > Charlotte > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > > And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is > > already present. ? > > > > Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash > > of that info as a key. Then look that ?up if you are checking for > > duplicates. ?It dioesn't have to be user readable. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > > > >> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already > >> been there, and what data they provided at that time. > >> > >> And, no, the person entering data does not enter the > >> number/rule...it is done automagically after they enter the other > >> data. And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id > >> is already present. > >> > >> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> > >> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users > >> actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your > >> rule and enter the string to id the patient? > >> > >> Susan H. > >> > >> > >> > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 > >> > alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple > >> > times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit > >> > habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these > >> > same clients return and they are saying yes. > >> > > >> > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they > >> > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally > >> > at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person > >> > each time. > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat May 28 00:25:32 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:25:32 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display Message-ID: A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 28 05:19:06 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:19:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 28 05:42:31 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:42:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50265A3B3AEC42AB9D8A9FEBEC15E29C@abpc> And now I just noticed that the date field has a property called Show Date Picker, which you can set to Never. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Asger Blond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 12:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat May 28 06:27:04 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 07:27:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007+ 64-bit unanticipated problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE0DC08.7060306@torchlake.com> Arthur, Could be a whole new career for you - translating good 32-bit apps into good 64-bit apps. :-) T Arthur Fuller wrote: > Like many others on this list, I have come to value MzTools as absolutely > indispensable. However, I have recently discovered that it will not run in a > 64-bit environment (unless I install Office 32-bit, which I am reluctant to > do). The author of MzTools has declared his intention never to do a 64-bit > version. Bummer! So now I'm reduced to copying the headers and error > handlers from old procedures to new ones, or alternatively, Saving the App > in 32-bit version, running MzTools there, and copying the generated code and > documentation back to the 64-bit version. Either way, it sucks. > > Unlike some developers here, I have committed to the 64-bit version, and > believe that the days of 32-bit are numbered. So I may ultimately be forced > to reverse-engineer MzTools, revise some portions I'm less than happy with, > and release something called ArtfulToolsVBA64. Well, now that I'm > semi-retired, with just one remaining client (who is undyingly faithful), > perhaps I've got the time available to embark on this project. > > So, a word of caution: either don't commit to the new format or install a > 32-bit version of Office so this problem won't arise. > > Sadly, > Arthur > From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 28 11:30:47 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:30:47 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi Philippe Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp A fully functional trial is available for download. Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners and their misbehaving. /gustav >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> Hi all, I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. Do you have any experience on that matter? In that case,would you share it with me? TIA, Philippe From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 13:27:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:27:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation Message-ID: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=1 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 13:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:39:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE14171.5070607@colbyconsulting.com> Never mind. I discovered I can just navigate to a url to get it and I can dynamically build that URL. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 2:27 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=1 > > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 28 15:13:03 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 13:13:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just a note John: This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the time you posted this. ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa ge=1 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 15:33:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 16:33:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. Google nc public offender website On the left hand site click Offender public search Find yourself. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note John: > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they > should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the > time you posted this. > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does > seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on > felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few > terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific > information. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web > page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically > display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa > ge=1 > From phpons at gmail.com Sat May 28 15:52:16 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:52:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thank's a lot for your input, it seems chestysoft provides the ocx I need. But who is this Simon Chester, and how would I reach him, if needed? He does not seem to be an AccessD guy, does he? Regards, Philippe 2011/5/28 Gustav Brock > Hi Philippe > > Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: > > http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp > > A fully functional trial is available for download. > > Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable > animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support > from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners > and their misbehaving. > > /gustav > > > >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> > Hi all, > > I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control > a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. > > Do you have any experience on that matter? > In that case,would you share it with me? > > TIA, > > Philippe > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From phpons at gmail.com Sat May 28 15:54:38 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:54:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Will you find DSK, our ex next "Pr?sident de la R?publique"? Philippe 2011/5/28 jwcolby > This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. > > Google > > nc public offender website > > On the left hand site click > > Offender public search > > Find yourself. ;) > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Just a note John: >> >> This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they >> should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within >> the >> time you posted this. >> >> ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does >> seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on >> felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few >> terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very >> specific >> information. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation >> >> Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web >> page? Notice the "click >> to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to >> automatically >> display the photo. >> >> >> http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 >> >> 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa >> ge=1 >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat May 28 16:33:52 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 09:33:52 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Asger, these both work well. I was looking for a global setting ... duhh. (I pick up my pension soon) Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Saturday, 28 May 2011 10:46 p.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display And now I just noticed that the date field has a property called Show Date Picker, which you can set to Never. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Asger Blond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 12:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 28 19:10:32 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:10:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: It just seems strange to me. Working within a number of government projects there are some very strict guide-lines as to who has access to what data. It must be a state thing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] vba IE automation This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. Google nc public offender website On the left hand site click Offender public search Find yourself. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note John: > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they > should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the > time you posted this. > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does > seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on > felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few > terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific > information. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web > page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically > display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa > ge=1 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 28 20:29:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 11:29:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com>, <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DE1A17D.20360.18D19906@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A quick google reveals similar websites for a number of US states. -- Stuart On 28 May 2011 at 17:10, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > It just seems strange to me. Working within a number of government > projects there are some very strict guide-lines as to who has access > to what data. It must be a state thing. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. > > Google > > nc public offender website > > On the left hand site click > > Offender public search > > Find yourself. ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Just a note John: > > > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps > > they should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire > > database within > the > > time you posted this. > > > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it > > does seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking > > system, on felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible > > through a very few terminal and with multiple security levels and > > displaying only very > specific > > information. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on > > the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying > > this on a form but I want to > automatically > > display the photo. > > > > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offend > erID=0 > > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults& > listpa > ge=1 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 29 02:34:48 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 09:34:48 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi Philippe Simon more or less is Chestysoft. >From the home page: "Chestysoft is owned by Simon Chester" /gustav >>> phpons at gmail.com 28-05-2011 22:52 >>> Hi Gustav, Thank's a lot for your input, it seems chestysoft provides the ocx I need. But who is this Simon Chester, and how would I reach him, if needed? He does not seem to be an AccessD guy, does he? Regards, Philippe 2011/5/28 Gustav Brock > Hi Philippe > > Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: > > http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp > > A fully functional trial is available for download. > > Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable > animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support > from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners > and their misbehaving. > > /gustav > > > >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> > Hi all, > > I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control > a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. > > Do you have any experience on that matter? > In that case,would you share it with me? > > TIA, > > Philippe From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 29 19:18:57 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 20:18:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon May 30 02:52:44 2011 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 08:52:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at the > methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security > nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move > for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those > things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the > MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening > outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was > moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder > that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being > there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the > folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 07:45:35 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 07:45:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 30 07:55:59 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 07:55:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Message-ID: I use ClickYes -- I send out hundreds of emails through Outlook at a time. I just turn ClickYes on, start the email routine, and walk away. There's nothing to click. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 08:57:03 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 08:57:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001b01cc1ed1$7658c8f0$630a5ad0$@comcast.net> That works differently than I knew about. But still, I don't need to train users how to do it - emails, and the MS Security Dialogbox, are just not displayed. Outlook Evader does have additional properties and methods which I've found pretty useful - like letting users decide if they want to save emails sent from my app to be saved in the Sent folder or not. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption I use ClickYes -- I send out hundreds of emails through Outlook at a time. I just turn ClickYes on, start the email routine, and walk away. There's nothing to click. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:11:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:11:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) ? Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) ? Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:15:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:15:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> Mark, > I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. And that works well when it works well. In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to process... We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a > few years ago. > > It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly > dialogbox MS put in the way. > > Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. > > Mark From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Mon May 30 20:26:20 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 03:26:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> Jim, I don't want to reiterate this discussion but your comment puzzles me. I quite agree that an autonumber is not a primary key, but I would then hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be. So just to get you right I would like to know: Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a unique index on the autonumber field? And also: when implementing a foreign key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the autonumber key? If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then I disagree and we have a point of discussion. If not, I don't get the meaning in your comment. Then you are in accordance with Robert, and I suggest with most of us. The disagreement appears to me to be a matter of wording, or if you prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 20:32:17 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 20:32:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Mark, > I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. And that works well when it works well. In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to process... We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years > ago. > > It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the > silly dialogbox MS put in the way. > > Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. > > Mark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 30 20:34:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:34:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: , , <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE4458C.17944.2322969C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Hear, hear! -- Stuart On 30 May 2011 at 21:11, jwcolby wrote: > Jim, > > >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that > says a primary key cannot change. > > First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational > model but I will just give you that one. No contest. > > Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: > > Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order > for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying > something like: > > Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do > care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. > > Just for the record, my hand is not up. > > Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* > change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not > the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or > fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add > one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all > hell breaks loose. > > Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with > your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to > say, you can give it a rest. > > I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better > damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could > refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it > the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could > avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. > > So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to > call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it > the PK around Jim" object and tell us. > > We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK > because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and > click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the > "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK > around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to > that as the PK. > > We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same > thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" > object and voila, MS calls it the PK. > > *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with > another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not > call it the PK around Jim" object. > > Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your > professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. > > I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. > > And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so > do I. > > Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them > however I am going to. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key > > There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: > > Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) > A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The > surrogate is internally generated by > the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. > Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) > A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The > surrogate is internally generated > by the system and is invisible to the user or application. > > http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 > > A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. > > It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used > for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate > primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. > > http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm > http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html > > 1. Common Key Terminology > > Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys > and then work through an example. These terms are: > > * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely > identify an entity. In a > physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns > whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. > * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more > attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of > attributes that already exist in the real world. > For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) > that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's > pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, > assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the > scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). > * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. > * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model > will have zero or more candidate > keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people > don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no > hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American > citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and > the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is > unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are > called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the > primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within > a physical data model. > * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. > * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another > unique identifier of a row > within a table. > * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that > represents a key, either > primary or secondary, in another entity type. > > I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is > precisely the above set of terms. > > Since every key uniquely identifies the row... > > The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with > the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database > designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was > selected because it is just that. > > As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the > (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real > world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the > relational model. > > As if I care. > > The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in > the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often > conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural > keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to > actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical > relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). > > You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality > we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is > where *I* live!". > > Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from > which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out > I still have to call myself uneducated! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > < > not dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational > > model is > > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list > > a while > > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a > > tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the > > data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is > > unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that > > combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and > > ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on > > every row > > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in > > relational terms is not a surrogate key. > > > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will > > ensure that a > > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, > > then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table > > (relation). > > > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number > > as a > > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need > > to create a unique index based on the PK. > > > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it > > can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, > > great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job > > done. > > > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > > shortcut. > > > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a > > name > > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's > > allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper > > on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. > > > > Jim. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 30 20:35:00 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:35:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com>, Message-ID: <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Models are not reality. (Neither in information systems nor in climate ) -- Stuart On 29 May 2011 at 20:18, Jim Dettman wrote: > There is nothing stated in any paper on the > relational model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:59:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:59:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com>, <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DE44B8B.3040602@colbyconsulting.com> Hear, Hear! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:35 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Models are not reality. (Neither in information systems nor in climate) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 10:05:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:05:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DE503C3.1060103@colbyconsulting.com> Have fun is RIGHT. I am doing Outlook automation from C# and the security warnings crapola every time you do anything is annoying / obnoxious. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 3:09 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > http://www.helenfeddema.com/ > > Helen's the automation queen as far as I'm concerned. > > > > > > Have fun! > > Susan H. > > >> All, >> >> Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. >> >> I have never experimented with this area before. >> >> We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the >> date that the Email was sent. >> >> I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure >> where to start. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 10:07:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:07:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as > folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if > you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to > process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the >> silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 31 10:13:53 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:13:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many others. Arthur On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby wrote: > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 31 10:23:35 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:23:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> Hi John, If downloading is an issue, you might want to look at Outlook Evader again. For a c# windows form app, it is installed as a single file in your project: vbMAPI.cs or vbMAPI_cs4.cs (depending on your VS version). http://www.everythingaccess.com/vbmapi/csharptips.htm Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such > as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, > so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you > are trying to process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 31 10:31:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:31:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> All my customers are corporate, and they all use Outlook. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many others. Arthur On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby wrote: > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue May 31 11:24:20 2011 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:24:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> John, I do use Redemption but not any of the features you are trying to use. Have you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond whenever I've had questions. Doris Manning Senior Developer/Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [dba-VB] redemption We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:36:12 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:36:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, I am setting up an automated system for: 1) Receive an email with an Excel attachment 2) Strip the attachment, create a directory and place the attachment into it. 3) Create a SQL Server database (temporary) 4) Import a list of zips in each page of the spreadsheet into a matching table in the database 5) Count the household / population in those zips 6) generate an email back out with the counts in the body of the email. The objective is that the client sends an email that matches strict criteria (Count name in the subject, files have count name pattern in the file name etc) and have the system automatically pick up the email (pull it into the server), get the attachment and process it. I went looking and all I could find for automating GMail was web crapola, IOW if you wanted to do stuff with it on your web site. I need it on my server. I am not using outlook per se, I am trying to get an object that is a POP or CDO or whatever. Something that will pull data into a email store local to my computer that I can manipulate. No one spoke up when I asked how to do this. Now everyone has an opinion. OTOH I have actual running code that does this now, so opinions at this point do me no good. I already paid to develop this. I have a business to run, you know? When I ask and get no response I go figure it out myself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 11:13 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I > just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current > preference being gmail, but there are many others. > > Arthur > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >> We are using the free version of Redemption. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:37:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:37:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE5194B.2010109@colbyconsulting.com> Dan, See my response to Arthur. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 11:23 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > Hi John, > > If downloading is an issue, you might want to look at Outlook Evader again. > For a c# windows form app, it is installed as a single file in your project: > vbMAPI.cs or vbMAPI_cs4.cs (depending on your VS version). > > http://www.everythingaccess.com/vbmapi/csharptips.htm > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ > > The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: >> What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption >> >> Mark, >> >> > I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years ago. >> >> And that works well when it works well. >> >> In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such >> as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop > up. >> Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, >> so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you >> are trying to process... >> >> We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better > fit. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >>> Hello John, >>> >>> I also used a program named >>> ClickYes a few years >>> ago. >>> >>> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >>> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >>> >>> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >>> >>> Mark >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:38:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:38:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] redemption In-Reply-To: <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <4DE51995.7040006@colbyconsulting.com> >Have you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond whenever I've had questions. Not yet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 12:24 PM, Doris Manning wrote: > John, > > I do use Redemption but not any of the features you are trying to use. Have > you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond > whenever I've had questions. > > Doris Manning > Senior Developer/Database Administrator > Hargrove Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [dba-VB] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security > nonsense. We are using the > RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was > missing the mail.subject > property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the > MailReceived event never > fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to > download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was > moved to. IOW if we move > a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were > put into, the collection > doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, > *then* back in our code the > folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 31 13:49:22 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:49:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002d01cc1fc3$74feef50$5efccdf0$@cox.net> VB.Net has some nice classes to send email, but as far as I can tell nothing to receive it. I use the mail classes in several desktop apps and web sites. Your quest made me curious so I did a brief search. This link sounds like it addresses some of the same issues your facing; http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/programming-life/reading-email-using-mapi-in-vbn et-5855. I have no knowledge of using Redemption from .NET but this guy apparently has it working. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such > as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, > so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you > are trying to process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue May 31 14:51:34 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Wow... this almost looks like an email from me to JWC... did you start drinking rational juice lately or something John? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 15:06:21 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:06:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> John, My point and my only point was that the problem John was facing exactly illustrated the differences of a true Pk and what everyone calls a PK. In regards to surrogates, the dictionary definition of a "surrogate" means "to take the place of". If John adds an auto number to his table, is he not still faced with the exact same problem; how to distinguish one patient from another? Yes. Adding an auto number does nothing to solve that problem. If that auto number is called "PatientID" and is given to the person, is it now a surrogate? Yes. It has meaning and can no longer be reassigned at will. That is a surrogate key and can function as a PK. <> Boy, you missed the point of that question (it was not a statement). I wondered "which one of us uneducated?". The implication was that: 1. Either you because you care less about the theory and simply do things "because it works". 2. Or myself because I care about the theory even though at the end of the day, I still live in the real world and end up doing the same things as you do. In other words, I was questioning myself. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 15:35:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:35:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE55101.9040000@colbyconsulting.com> > In other words, I was questioning myself. LOL, nice save. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > My point and my only point was that the problem John was facing exactly > illustrated the differences of a true Pk and what everyone calls a PK. > > In regards to surrogates, the dictionary definition of a "surrogate" means > "to take the place of". > > If John adds an auto number to his table, is he not still faced with the > exact same problem; how to distinguish one patient from another? Yes. > Adding an auto number does nothing to solve that problem. If that auto > number is called "PatientID" and is given to the person, is it now a > surrogate? Yes. It has meaning and can no longer be reassigned at will. > That is a surrogate key and can function as a PK. > > < which that metaphor came, > though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself > uneducated!>> > > Boy, you missed the point of that question (it was not a statement). I > wondered "which one of us uneducated?". The implication was that: > > 1. Either you because you care less about the theory and simply do things > "because it works". > > 2. Or myself because I care about the theory even though at the end of the > day, I still live in the real world and end up doing the same things as you > do. > > > In other words, I was questioning myself. > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > Jim, > > >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a > primary key cannot change. > > First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model > but I will just give > you that one. No contest. > > Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: > > Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for > your hand to be counted > as up, you need to respond saying something like: > > Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care > that nothing in any > paper says... etc etc. > > Just for the record, my hand is not up. > > Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, > only that it causes > enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the > business rules defining the > field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. > Add one field to the > required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. > > Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your > academic friends. They will > all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. > > I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better > damned well not call it the > PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well > not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we > could avoid this absolutely > silly conversation yet another time. > > So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call > this "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. > > We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, > better damned well not > call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. > Click on the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and > click the PK little > golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, > better damned well not call > it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer > to that as the PK. > > We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing > happens. Click the > little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well > not call it the PK > around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. > > *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name > for the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. > > Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your > professor friends call it the > PK, and leave it alone. > > I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. > > And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. > > Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I > am going to. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key > > There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: > > Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) > A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is > internally generated by > the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. > Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) > A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate > is internally generated > by the system and is invisible to the user or application. > > http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 > > A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. > > It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for > the primary key to the > table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique > for each row in the table. > > http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm > http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html > > 1. Common Key Terminology > > Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and > then work through an > example. These terms are: > > * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify > an entity. In a > physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose > value(s) uniquely > identifies a row within a relational table. > * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more > attributes. > * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already > exist in the real world. > For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that > is unique to them (this > isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN > could be used as a > natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming > the scope of your > organization is limited to the U.S.). > * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. > * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have > zero or more candidate > keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't > believe in identifying > candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if > we only interact with > American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type > and the combination of > name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a > second candidate key. > Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to > be chosen as the primary > key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical > data model. > * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. > * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique > identifier of a row > within a table. > * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that > represents a key, either > primary or secondary, in another entity type. > > I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely > the above set of terms. > > Since every key uniquely identifies the row... > > The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the > fewest potential problems, > actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The > word Primary (I assume) was > selected because it is just that. > > As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) > relational model, and in > fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is > verboten in the > relational model. > > As if I care. > > The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real > world and we end up > with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate > keys were invented > because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely > unnecessary to actually use a > natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where > surrogate keys are verboten). > > You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we > wouldn't have surrogate > keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". > > Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which > that metaphor came, > though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself > uneducated! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> <> dependant on data. For db system use only>> >> >> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is >> exactly opposite of what you describe. >> >> John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a > while >> back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or > a >> pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how >> to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, > John >> is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which >> identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. >> >> That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every > row >> (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational >> terms is not a surrogate key. >> >> John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure > that a >> row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then >> more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). >> >> For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a >> pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to > create >> a unique index based on the PK. >> >> He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for >> performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can > lead >> to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the > end >> of the day, it may be required to get the job done. >> >> Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that >> shortcut. >> >> And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name >> change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for >> cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational >> model that says a primary key cannot change. >> >> Jim. From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 15:39:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:39:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> Message-ID: <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> Asgar, <> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is physically stored. That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. <> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. <> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, I don't want to reiterate this discussion but your comment puzzles me. I quite agree that an autonumber is not a primary key, but I would then hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be. So just to get you right I would like to know: Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a unique index on the autonumber field? And also: when implementing a foreign key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the autonumber key? If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then I disagree and we have a point of discussion. If not, I don't get the meaning in your comment. Then you are in accordance with Robert, and I suggest with most of us. The disagreement appears to me to be a matter of wording, or if you prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rls at WeBeDb.com Tue May 31 16:05:39 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:05:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A6AB3D3-7E49-4837-BB59-080EDAA371BE@holly.arvixe.com> Sorry Jim, but as John pointed out, you are not living in the real world. I am NOT going to use a composite natural key for a primary key. Why, well, for the same reason John would not. I am not going to tie up the database doing an update to hundreds of thousands of records if I change the natural key. If I use an IDENTITY (autonumber in MS Access), I never change it and do not have to contend with a cascading update. Check the definitions and then realize that you are talking about a logical model and not a physical implementation of that logical model. The absolute only time a composite natural key is valid for use is in the fact table of a data mart.warehouse. And, except in very rare occasions, depending on they type of dimensions you are building, you might cause an update of data. Head knowledge is nice for some things, but real live experience will beat out that any day. Robert At 02:51 PM 5/31/2011, you wrote: >Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman >Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 >Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > ><dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is >exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while >back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a >pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how >to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John >is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which >identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row >(an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational >terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a >row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then >more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a >pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create >a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for >performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead >to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end >of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that >shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name >change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for >cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational >model that says a primary key cannot change. > >Jim. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 16:08:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:08:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I understand your angst (though I do not participate in your angst). Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split the PK concept into: 1) Pointer 2) Unique index on a selected key. Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique index. Which of course is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) and the unique index can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK goes away. I embrace that with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both and cannot be split into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK is (at least when surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* more importantly, everybody that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception of you) uses word PK in the same manner as I do. Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor creating the unique index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as distinct from and not necessarily related to the pointer between records. >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We must select the pointer, and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were told by the world to call the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. What is Lead? 1) A metal 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. 3) The position out in front. We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. We are doing that here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the pointer and the selected key) the same name and you go ballistic. We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need to participate in the angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in your angst. Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Asgar, > > < hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the > *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> > > Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary > Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals > with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is > physically stored. > > That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one > states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in > database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly > design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table > represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then > all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the > "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a > physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. > > John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", > he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. > > < Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a > unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a foreign > key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto > number key?>> > > Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a > unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might > even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even > though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking > the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. > > But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If > you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. > > < prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a > *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> > > In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a > physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row > uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. > > Jim. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 31 16:22:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 07:22:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE55C1C.26.2762C907@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> So are mine, but I don't use it personally. I'ts Pegasus Mail for me personally - and has been for about 15 years :-) For email automation, I make sure that everything is client neutral, that's why I use things like Blat. -- Stuart On 31 May 2011 at 10:31, Dan Waters wrote: > All my customers are corporate, and they all use Outlook. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? > I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my > current preference being gmail, but there are many others. > > Arthur > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 31 16:31:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 07:31:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't recall you asking how to do this. It would be about an hour to develop a system to do it using a combination of Pegasus Mail, PowerBasic and SQLTools, and Blat. A few hours to do the whole thing as a single standalone application with PB/SQL Tools coding simple POP3 and SMTP client modules in the application. Most of the code required is already available either in the samples that come with the compiler on the forums at wwww.powerbasic.com :-) -- Stuart On 31 May 2011 at 12:36, jwcolby wrote: > Arthur, > > I am setting up an automated system for: > > 1) Receive an email with an Excel attachment > 2) Strip the attachment, create a directory and place the attachment > into it. 3) Create a SQL Server database (temporary) 4) Import a list > of zips in each page of the spreadsheet into a matching table in the > database 5) Count the household / population in those zips 6) generate > an email back out with the counts in the body of the email. > > The objective is that the client sends an email that matches strict > criteria (Count name in the subject, files have count name pattern in > the file name etc) and have the system automatically pick up the email > (pull it into the server), get the attachment and process it. > > I went looking and all I could find for automating GMail was web > crapola, IOW if you wanted to do stuff with it on your web site. I > need it on my server. > > I am not using outlook per se, I am trying to get an object that is a > POP or CDO or whatever. Something that will pull data into a email > store local to my computer that I can manipulate. > > No one spoke up when I asked how to do this. Now everyone has an > opinion. OTOH I have actual running code that does this now, so > opinions at this point do me no good. I already paid to develop this. > > I have a business to run, you know? When I ask and get no response I > go figure it out myself. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 11:13 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using > > Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior > > alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many > > others. > > > > Arthur > > > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, > > jwcolbywrote: > > > >> We are using the free version of Redemption. > >> > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 16:39:27 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:39:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <> Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I understand your angst (though I do not participate in your angst). Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split the PK concept into: 1) Pointer 2) Unique index on a selected key. Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique index. Which of course is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) and the unique index can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK goes away. I embrace that with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both and cannot be split into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK is (at least when surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* more importantly, everybody that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception of you) uses word PK in the same manner as I do. Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor creating the unique index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as distinct from and not necessarily related to the pointer between records. >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We must select the pointer, and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were told by the world to call the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. What is Lead? 1) A metal 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. 3) The position out in front. We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. We are doing that here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the pointer and the selected key) the same name and you go ballistic. We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need to participate in the angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in your angst. Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Asgar, > > < hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the > *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> > > Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary > Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals > with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is > physically stored. > > That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one > states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in > database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly > design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table > represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then > all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the > "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a > physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. > > John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", > he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. > > < Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a > unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a foreign > key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto > number key?>> > > Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a > unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might > even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even > though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking > the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. > > But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If > you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. > > < prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a > *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> > > In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a > physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row > uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 17:13:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 18:13:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DE567EC.8070203@colbyconsulting.com> Sad really. I have an entire system in C# and I am not going to go learn Pegasus mail, Power Basic, SQL Tools and Blat to do one small part of my system. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 5:31 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't recall you asking how to do this. > > It would be about an hour to develop a system to do it using a combination of Pegasus Mail, > PowerBasic and SQLTools, and Blat. > > A few hours to do the whole thing as a single standalone application with PB/SQL Tools > coding simple POP3 and SMTP client modules in the application. Most of the code required > is already available either in the samples that come with the compiler on the forums at > wwww.powerbasic.com :-) > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 17:14:18 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 18:14:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Just trying to get you to a shrink! We'd all be happier. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 5:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < need to participate in the > angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in > your angst.>> > > Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I > understand your angst > (though I do not participate in your angst). > > Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split > the PK concept into: > > 1) Pointer > 2) Unique index on a selected key. > > Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique > index. Which of course > is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) > and the unique index > can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK > goes away. I embrace that > with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! > > We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both > and cannot be split > into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK > is (at least when > surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* > more importantly, everybody > that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception > of you) uses word PK in > the same manner as I do. > > Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. > > Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor > creating the unique > index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as > distinct from and not > necessarily related to the pointer between records. > > >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and > it's the "PK". But > it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. > > Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We > must select the pointer, > and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were > told by the world to call > the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. > > What is Lead? > > 1) A metal > 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. > 3) The position out in front. > > We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. > We are doing that > here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the > pointer and the selected > key) the same name and you go ballistic. > > We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need > to participate in the > angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in > your angst. > > Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Asgar, >> >> <> hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the >> *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> >> >> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary >> Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals >> with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is >> physically stored. >> >> That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one >> states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in >> database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly >> design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table >> represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then >> all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the >> "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a >> physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. >> >> John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number > "PK", >> he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. >> >> <> Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create > a >> unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a > foreign >> key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto >> number key?>> >> >> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a >> unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It > might >> even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" > even >> though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking >> the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. >> >> But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If >> you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. >> >> <> prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a >> *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> >> >> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in > a >> physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row >> uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. >> >> Jim. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 31 20:15:27 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:15:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Yes, it is convenient to use an AutoNumber (or in SQL parlance Identity, or in Oracle parlance Sequence) to uniquely identify rows within a relation. Of course it is, and that's why most of us use it, but is it correct? Actually, I think not, atlthough sometimes it shall suffice: given the case of thousands of eggs hatched by hundreds of chickens daily, it may not make sense to give them Intelligent Keys, but given another case such as serial-numbered automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. I am not on one side or the other of this discussion. Rather, I am on both sides, and can see the sense in both sides of this discussion. When we are discussing eggs, autonumber may seem correct; when discussing fuel injectors, then serial numbers and batch numbers are important, and hence PKs should identify these objects intelligently, not autonumerically. A. On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:14 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Just trying to get you to a shrink! We'd all be happier. > > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 5:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> <> need to participate in the >> angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in >> your angst.>> >> >> Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions >> >> That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I >> understand your angst >> (though I do not participate in your angst). >> >> Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split >> the PK concept into: >> >> 1) Pointer >> 2) Unique index on a selected key. >> >> Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique >> index. Which of course >> is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or >> fields) >> and the unique index >> can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK >> goes away. I embrace that >> with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! >> >> We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is >> both >> and cannot be split >> into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the >> PK >> is (at least when >> surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* >> more importantly, everybody >> that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* >> exception >> of you) uses word PK in >> the same manner as I do. >> >> Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we >> do. >> >> Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, >> nor >> creating the unique >> index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as >> distinct from and not >> necessarily related to the pointer between records. >> >> >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number >> and >> it's the "PK". But >> it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. >> >> Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We >> must select the pointer, >> and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were >> told by the world to call >> the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. >> >> What is Lead? >> >> 1) A metal >> 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. >> 3) The position out in front. >> >> We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same >> word. >> We are doing that >> here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the >> pointer and the selected >> key) the same name and you go ballistic. >> >> We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no >> need >> to participate in the >> angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in >> your angst. >> >> Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >>> Asgar, >>> >>> <>> hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the >>> *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> >>> >>> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary >>> Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals >>> with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is >>> physically stored. >>> >>> That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one >>> states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in >>> database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly >>> design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table >>> represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But >>> then >>> all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's >>> the >>> "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a >>> physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. >>> >>> John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number >>> >> "PK", >> >>> he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. >>> >>> <>> Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then >>> create >>> >> a >> >>> unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a >>> >> foreign >> >>> key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the >>> auto >>> number key?>> >>> >>> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a >>> unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It >>> >> might >> >>> even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" >>> >> even >> >>> though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking >>> the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. >>> >>> But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. >>> If >>> you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. >>> >>> <>> prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a >>> *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> >>> >>> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in >>> >> a >> >>> physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row >>> uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. >>> >>> Jim. >>> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 22:07:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:07:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE5ACFF.3050906@colbyconsulting.com> > I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Hmm... I have to assume that there is some upper class / lower class thing going on here. You apparently count yourself in the upper class. >but given another case such as serial-numbered automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. LOL. No it doesn't. Reality still exists. Comparing a long integer PK to a long integer FK takes a single machine instruction. Comparing a 30 character serial number to another 30 character serial number takes eons (in computer time). Doing so a billion times requires some serious supercomputer power to solve a trivial problem that a surrogate never creates. Apparently some of us have never studied pattern matching algorithms and machine instructions... ;) Surrogates exist for many reasons. One of them is sheer speed. Why on God's green earth would I use a highly efficient surrogate in most cases and yet choose a grossly inefficient natural key just because it is "guaranteed to work and not cause problems" (in this one specific case). If a surrogate key doesn't work, then it should never be used. If it does work, then why would I not use it. Why would I be storing (and indexing) a 30 character string as my PK (and FK) instead of a long integer? Personally I think Codd would cringe at having his name used as a club to win such a silly argument. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 9:15 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you > (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Yes, it is > convenient to use an AutoNumber (or in SQL parlance Identity, or in Oracle > parlance Sequence) to uniquely identify rows within a relation. Of course it > is, and that's why most of us use it, but is it correct? Actually, I think > not, atlthough sometimes it shall suffice: given the case of thousands of > eggs hatched by hundreds of chickens daily, it may not make sense to give > them Intelligent Keys, but given another case such as serial-numbered > automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. > > I am not on one side or the other of this discussion. Rather, I am on both > sides, and can see the sense in both sides of this discussion. When we are > discussing eggs, autonumber may seem correct; when discussing fuel > injectors, then serial numbers and batch numbers are important, and hence > PKs should identify these objects intelligently, not autonumerically. > > A. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 22:37:58 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:37:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cray Unleashes XK6 Supercomputer with AMD's Next-Generation Opteron "Interlagos" and Nvidia Tesla - X-bit labs Message-ID: <4DE5B416.7030903@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, Thinking of you. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20110525224645_Cray_Unleashes_XK6_Supercomputer_with_Next_Generation_Opteron_Interlagos_and_Nvidia_Tesla.html The world needs more natural PKs. ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sun May 1 21:26:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:26:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: All, Background ? Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive. Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. Is there any ?Rule of Thumb? to consider in this decision (such as ?any accdr over X MB should be stored locally?). Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? Thanks, Brad From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 1 21:58:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 22:58:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background ? Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any ?Rule of Thumb? to consider in this decision (such as ?any accdr over X MB should be stored locally?). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 1 22:13:36 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 20:13:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: <63A8AD328AD54326B33AED5A7B6BD34F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Brad: My recommendations would be to centralize the front-end on a server and download a copy to each station when the user starts the application. As the FE module has no data it should load fast regardless. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 7:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? All, Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? Thanks, Brad From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 1 22:29:47 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:29:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 1 23:10:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 14:10:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBE2EC5.16457.E851ED2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Yep, that's what I do as well. -- Stuart On 1 May 2011 at 22:58, jwcolby wrote: > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces > and parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production > directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are > utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > > All, > > > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > > something to do this. > > > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is > > about 20 MB. > > > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that > > each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > > Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the > > local PC?s hard drive. > > > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures > > to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to > > initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > > > Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the > > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front > > End are released. > > > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 08:39:13 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 08:39:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 08:49:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 09:49:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Message-ID: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. Normally it is the other way around. The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 2 08:59:44 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:59:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: That's an odd one. Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. Normally it is the other way around. The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 09:13:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:13:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... PBKAC as so often happens. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > That's an odd one. > > Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. > > Lambert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. > > Normally it is the other way around. > > The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 2 09:28:49 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 10:28:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Ah yes. Context is everything. :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... PBKAC as so often happens. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > That's an odd one. > > Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. > > Lambert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. > > Normally it is the other way around. > > The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 10:15:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 11:15:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBECA99.6020306@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, yep. I was looking at code in Excel and simultaneously copying pieces into Access. I got confused where I was inserting the module and inserted it into Excel when I intended to insert it into Access. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 10:28 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah yes. Context is everything. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:14 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... > > PBKAC as so often happens. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> That's an odd one. >> >> Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. >> >> Lambert >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 >> >> How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. >> >> Normally it is the other way around. >> >> The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 2 11:46:07 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:46:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 12:37:04 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:37:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4dbeebc3.213e970a.73ee.5bc9@mx.google.com> Thanks, I'll look into it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Mon May 2 13:03:54 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:03:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tab control click event In-Reply-To: <88183A49169647A0A40576475839C469@HAL9005> References: <> <032a01cc01b0$c4a1c630$4de55290$@com> <4DB34AC5.14044.33121AEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <038701cc036c$c1856d40$449047c0$@com> <000c01cc038a$e12db120$a3891360$@cox.net> <88183A49169647A0A40576475839C469@HAL9005> Message-ID: <008d01cc08f3$4d6547a0$e82fd6e0$@com> Sorry, guys, just got back from a vacay and didn't see this. I'll try your suggestions. Thanx! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [Spam]8.51 Re: [AccessD] Tab control click event Come to think of it Doug, I did something like that on a tab form where I disappeared the tab and replaced it with a label, which looks nicer, you can format it, and has a Click event where you can do whatever and then set the focus to that page: Me.TabCtl140.Pages(1).SetFocus HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tab control click event Darrell, Why not use buttons to control the tab change and put the refresh code in the button on-click before you change the tab pages? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Tab control click event Howdy. I have a form with a tab control and multiple pages. I have to refresh the table bound to each page as it's clicked. I can do it with the Change event but then you see the table being deleted and refreshed and it looks clunky. What I'd like to do is capture the click or mouse-down event as the user selects a tab so I can do the refresh before the page changes. But none of seem to work. I've put a debug on both the click and mouse-down on the tab control, and on each page control, and I get nothing. Is there some other way of trapping the tab click before it changes? Thx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon May 2 13:41:27 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:41:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com><4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Message-ID: All, Thanks for the help and advice. I really appreciate it. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 2 15:26:34 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 16:26:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> Jim, Mines a little more simplistic then most as I rely on the user to actually execute the batch file, but below is one of the more complex ones I do. The version check is built-into the apps. At startup, I check a local table vs one that is in a copy of the FE up on the server. If the two don't match, I message the user and quit the app. They double click a short cut then to "update", which executes the batch stored on the server in the same location as the "master copy" of the FE. I've meant for a number of years to automate it a little more, but I've found that there is a lot of flexibility in the simplicity of it and just never seem to get around to it. HTH, Jim. ECHO OFF @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Checking for application directories... @ECHO. IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "H:" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%1" == "" GOTO DEFAULT SET HOMEDRIVE=%1 :DEFAULT @ECHO ON %HOMEDRIVE% CD\ @ECHO OFF if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Copying application files... @ECHO. COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.MDE" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.ICO" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\Update.ico" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\vbSendMail.dll" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\XYRLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\IDSLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Setting up environment... @ECHO. "P:\Traverse Custom\SetClientEnv.EXE" TM %HOMEDRIVE% "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom\vbsendmail.dll" /s rem rem Install mswinsck.ocx if local intall. If TS user this has already been done. rem rem rem ************ rem if NOT %HOMEDRIVE% == C: GOTO EXIT COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\mswinsck.ocx" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32" "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\MSWINSCK.OCX" /s :EXIT -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 09:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 15:27:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 16:27:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server - Append records without fail Message-ID: <4DBF13A9.9080503@colbyconsulting.com> In access you can append records into a table and if a given record fails, the rest go in. I use that as a quick and dirty filter sometimes when (for example) appending records from one place to another. AFAICT SQL Server will not append any of the records if any single record fails to append, which has always seemed strange to me. It's almost like an unrequested rollback. Is there any way to make SQL Server accept the appends that will go in and only reject the ones that will not for some reason? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 15:58:53 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 15:58:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> Message-ID: <4dbf1b10.1245960a.1dce.ffffc98a@mx.google.com> Thanks, I appreciate it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 3:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, Mines a little more simplistic then most as I rely on the user to actually execute the batch file, but below is one of the more complex ones I do. The version check is built-into the apps. At startup, I check a local table vs one that is in a copy of the FE up on the server. If the two don't match, I message the user and quit the app. They double click a short cut then to "update", which executes the batch stored on the server in the same location as the "master copy" of the FE. I've meant for a number of years to automate it a little more, but I've found that there is a lot of flexibility in the simplicity of it and just never seem to get around to it. HTH, Jim. ECHO OFF @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Checking for application directories... @ECHO. IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "H:" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%1" == "" GOTO DEFAULT SET HOMEDRIVE=%1 :DEFAULT @ECHO ON %HOMEDRIVE% CD\ @ECHO OFF if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Copying application files... @ECHO. COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.MDE" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.ICO" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\Update.ico" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\vbSendMail.dll" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\XYRLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\IDSLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Setting up environment... @ECHO. "P:\Traverse Custom\SetClientEnv.EXE" TM %HOMEDRIVE% "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom\vbsendmail.dll" /s rem rem Install mswinsck.ocx if local intall. If TS user this has already been done. rem rem rem ************ rem if NOT %HOMEDRIVE% == C: GOTO EXIT COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\mswinsck.ocx" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32" "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\MSWINSCK.OCX" /s :EXIT -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 09:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 2 19:30:02 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 10:30:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either under the start > programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. cheers Darryl ' **************************************************************************************************** ' Command line parameters. ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. ' This is also used for deriving paths. ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. ' ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client against ' the server version number in the version.txt. ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client along with ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other files to be copied to ' the client be scripted separately in the routine 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. ' ' **************************************************************************************************** Dim FS, FileStream dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, intParCount dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile dim copyTheFile Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) call launcher Set objShell = Nothing set FS = nothing sub launcher() on error resume next set args=wscript.arguments applicationName = args(0) sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder" & applicationName & "\" destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\" & applicationName & "\" ' Read the version text files and compare them. if FS.fileexists(destinationPath & "version.txt") then destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath & "version.txt") sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath & "version.txt") copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) else copyTheFile = true end if if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath & applicationname & ".mde") = false) then copyTheFile = true if copyTheFile then FS.CopyFile sourcePath & applicationName & ".mde", destinationPath FS.CopyFile sourcePath & "version.txt", destinationPath copyOtherSpecifiedFiles end if openFile: ' Run the mde. ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" objShell.Run Chr(34) & progToRun & Chr(34) & " " & Chr(34) & destinationPath & applicationName & ".mde" & Chr(34) end sub 'Read text file function GetFile(FileName) If FileName<>"" Then on error resume Next Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll End If End Function ' Copy other files as specified. function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() end function '------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 2 20:55:42 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 18:55:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. For all the information you may need see the following: http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either under the start > programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. cheers Darryl ' **************************************************************************** ************************ ' Command line parameters. ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. ' This is also used for deriving paths. ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. ' ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client against ' the server version number in the version.txt. ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client along with ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other files to be copied to ' the client be scripted separately in the routine 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. ' ' **************************************************************************** ************************ Dim FS, FileStream dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, intParCount dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile dim copyTheFile Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) call launcher Set objShell = Nothing set FS = nothing sub launcher() on error resume next set args=wscript.arguments applicationName = args(0) sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder" & applicationName & "\" destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\" & applicationName & "\" ' Read the version text files and compare them. if FS.fileexists(destinationPath & "version.txt") then destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath & "version.txt") sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath & "version.txt") copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) else copyTheFile = true end if if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath & applicationname & ".mde") = false) then copyTheFile = true if copyTheFile then FS.CopyFile sourcePath & applicationName & ".mde", destinationPath FS.CopyFile sourcePath & "version.txt", destinationPath copyOtherSpecifiedFiles end if openFile: ' Run the mde. ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" objShell.Run Chr(34) & progToRun & Chr(34) & " " & Chr(34) & destinationPath & applicationName & ".mde" & Chr(34) end sub 'Read text file function GetFile(FileName) If FileName<>"" Then on error resume Next Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll End If End Function ' Copy other files as specified. function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() end function '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 21:11:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 22:11:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that point you are sharing the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone is in it making it impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that > the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server > (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a > little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and > improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. > > For all the information you may need see the following: > http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 > > When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost > instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. > > This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. > > Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > > Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to > save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file > and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either > under the start> programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the > script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS > Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something > useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. > > cheers > Darryl > > > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > ' Command line parameters. > ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. > ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. > ' This is also used for deriving paths. > ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. > ' > ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client > against > ' the server version number in the version.txt. > ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client > along with > ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde > ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other > files to be copied to > ' the client be scripted separately in the routine > 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. > ' > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > > Dim FS, FileStream > dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, > intParCount > dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile > dim copyTheFile > > Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") > Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) > > call launcher > > Set objShell = Nothing > set FS = nothing > > sub launcher() > on error resume next > set args=wscript.arguments > > applicationName = args(0) > sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder"& applicationName& "\" > destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\"& applicationName& "\" > > ' Read the version text files and compare them. > if FS.fileexists(destinationPath& "version.txt") then > destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath& "version.txt") > sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath& "version.txt") > copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) > else > copyTheFile = true > end if > > if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath& applicationname& ".mde") = false) then > copyTheFile = true > > if copyTheFile then > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& applicationName& ".mde", destinationPath > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& "version.txt", destinationPath > copyOtherSpecifiedFiles > end if > > openFile: > ' Run the mde. > ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) > progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" > objShell.Run Chr(34)& progToRun& Chr(34)& " "& Chr(34)& destinationPath > & applicationName& ".mde"& Chr(34) > end sub > > > 'Read text file > function GetFile(FileName) > If FileName<>"" Then > > on error resume Next > Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) > GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll > End If > End Function > > ' Copy other files as specified. > function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() > end function > '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you > do it? > I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. > Would someone please post the script. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the > local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are > different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and > then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All > they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest > happens seamlessly in the background. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and > parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on > the server every time > they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and > only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. >> >> Currently no change control software, but we could put together something > to do this. >> >> We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 > MB. >> >> We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user > can have their own copy of the Front End. >> >> We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's > hard drive. >> >> Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to > release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate > the application when it is stored on the file server. >> >> Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are > released. >> >> Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any > accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). >> >> Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> >> >> From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 2 23:00:47 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:00:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: Hmmm, I see your concerns. The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed in Access97 so that dates it. :-) The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that point you are sharing the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone is in it making it impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that > the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server > (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a > little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and > improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. > > For all the information you may need see the following: > http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 > > When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost > instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. > > This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. > > Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > > Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to > save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file > and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either > under the start> programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the > script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS > Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something > useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. > > cheers > Darryl > > > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > ' Command line parameters. > ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. > ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. > ' This is also used for deriving paths. > ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. > ' > ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client > against > ' the server version number in the version.txt. > ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client > along with > ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde > ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other > files to be copied to > ' the client be scripted separately in the routine > 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. > ' > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > > Dim FS, FileStream > dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, > intParCount > dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile > dim copyTheFile > > Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") > Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) > > call launcher > > Set objShell = Nothing > set FS = nothing > > sub launcher() > on error resume next > set args=wscript.arguments > > applicationName = args(0) > sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder"& applicationName& "\" > destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\"& applicationName& "\" > > ' Read the version text files and compare them. > if FS.fileexists(destinationPath& "version.txt") then > destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath& "version.txt") > sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath& "version.txt") > copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) > else > copyTheFile = true > end if > > if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath& applicationname& ".mde") = false) then > copyTheFile = true > > if copyTheFile then > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& applicationName& ".mde", destinationPath > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& "version.txt", destinationPath > copyOtherSpecifiedFiles > end if > > openFile: > ' Run the mde. > ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) > progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" > objShell.Run Chr(34)& progToRun& Chr(34)& " "& Chr(34)& destinationPath > & applicationName& ".mde"& Chr(34) > end sub > > > 'Read text file > function GetFile(FileName) > If FileName<>"" Then > > on error resume Next > Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) > GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll > End If > End Function > > ' Copy other files as specified. > function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() > end function > '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you > do it? > I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. > Would someone please post the script. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the > local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are > different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and > then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All > they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest > happens seamlessly in the background. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and > parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on > the server every time > they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and > only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. >> >> Currently no change control software, but we could put together something > to do this. >> >> We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 > MB. >> >> We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user > can have their own copy of the Front End. >> >> We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's > hard drive. >> >> Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to > release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate > the application when it is stored on the file server. >> >> Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are > released. >> >> Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any > accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). >> >> Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 3 05:44:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 06:44:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is > locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) > Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the > clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on > to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server >> (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a >> little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue May 3 09:27:12 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 07:27:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. Charlotte Foust On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code below. > RTE is a long var. > code generates no errors up to the last line. > I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > any ideas?? > > > > 'populate the object variables > Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > CONNECT_STR) > conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) > DoEvents > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From RRANTHON at sentara.com Tue May 3 11:00:21 2011 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (RANDALL R ANTHONY) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 12:00:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Off the top of my head... Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. Charlotte Foust On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code below. > RTE is a long var. > code generates no errors up to the last line. > I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > any ideas?? > > > > 'populate the object variables > Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > CONNECT_STR) > conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) > DoEvents > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue May 3 11:12:47 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:12:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the > name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ?Someone else can > correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) >> DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 13:05:20 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:05:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Thanks again to all. dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, just a number that I know is good.... RTE is a long var. "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 The code generates no errors up to the last line. I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. Sure would like to figure this out.. Latest Code - not working: CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName 'populate the object variables Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, CONNECT_STR) conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ? > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >> True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From RRANTHON at sentara.com Tue May 3 13:12:50 2011 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (RANDALL R ANTHONY) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:12:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <201105031812.p43ICuxx025070@databaseadvisors.com> Dumb question, does the user account you're passing have EXEC permissions on the SQL end? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Thanks again to all. dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, just a number that I know is good.... RTE is a long var. "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 The code generates no errors up to the last line. I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. Sure would like to figure this out.. Latest Code - not working: CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName 'populate the object variables Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, CONNECT_STR) conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ? > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >> True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 13:49:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:49:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <99DF528B39914B08877C18911D346A83@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is > locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) > Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the > clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on > to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server >> (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a >> little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue May 3 14:16:11 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 07:16:11 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, >just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) >DoEvents >conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder >if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the >parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if >you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >> True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 3 14:36:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:36:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Message-ID: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 15:29:21 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:29:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 3 15:49:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 06:49:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If the parameter in the sp is some sort of string, as suggested by '" & "M" & "'", try conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & Trim$(RTE) & "'" i.e. embed RTE in single quotes and trim the leading space placeholder for "+/-" -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 11:05, b heygood wrote: > 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 3 15:55:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 06:55:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net>, <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Horsepucky. Most of my larger sites use Enterprise Licensing. All of their copies of Access have the same licence. -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 13:29, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized > that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different > license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 16:12:19 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:12:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <30A7B783CEB84966AF681BA1C6B4EC84@creativesystemdesigns.com> You are emphasizing " Enterprise Licensing " which rarely the situation when I come on site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Horsepucky. Most of my larger sites use Enterprise Licensing. All of their copies of Access have the same licence. -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 13:29, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized > that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different > license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 16:38:56 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:38:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <7243B4E2C72C458880EED1AC43BF9419@Seven> no, the parameter is a long integer. I just was trying various..... thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server If the parameter in the sp is some sort of string, as suggested by '" & "M" & "'", try conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & Trim$(RTE) & "'" i.e. embed RTE in single quotes and trim the leading space placeholder for "+/-" -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 11:05, b heygood wrote: > 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 16:40:57 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:40:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 3 16:48:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:48:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Transactions in Access Message-ID: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> Hi Jim, This is the code for transactions in Access. This shows just one procedure, where two different tables are affected. If your code is running through several procedures, where a total of 2 or more table operations are performed, then the transactions code should 'encapsulate' all of those procedures. If you are only performing an operation on one table, then your normal error handling method can pick up on that. A caveat - transactions will rollback where you are executing a SQL string (or using DoCmd.RunSQL), but not when you are changing values in a form, and not if you are changing values using a recordset. So, you must not have those data-changing operations within the code that is encapsulated by ws.BeginTrans and ws.EndTrans. I had to do a little 'refactoring', but it worked out. In addition, this will speed up your system. What happens is that none of the changes are actually 'committed' until you reach the ws.CommitTrans method, so a committed data change is done only once. So transactions can also be used as a method to speed up your application where you have multiple discrete table operations in a single code execution sequence. For Access transactions, the help files were pretty good. Hope this helps! '------------------------- Sub XXX Dim ws As Workspace '-- Some code Set ws = DBEngine(0) ws.BeginTrans On Error GoTo EH ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "DELETE ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "INSERT ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ws.CommitTrans dbForceOSFlush On Error GoTo 0 '-- More code XH: '-- Exit Here Set ws = Nothing Exit sub EH: '-- Error Handler ws.Rollback Call RollbackErrorMessage '-- Optional Resume XH End Sub '------------------------- Public Sub RollbackErrorMessage() Dim stgPrompt As String stgPrompt = "The action you just took was cancelled because the data changes could not be saved to the server. No changes have been saved - wait a few seconds and try again." _ & vbNewLine & vbNewLine _ & "This probably happened due to a multi-user data change conflict, but might have happened due to an error. If this happens frequently, contact your System Administrator.@ @" FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, stgPrompt, vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "No Changes Saved" Exit Sub ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Sub '------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue May 3 17:22:01 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 15:22:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> Message-ID: Bob, you might have already mentioned this, but... Can you open the query from the F11/database window? Does Access prompt you for the parameter? On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 PM, b heygood wrote: > no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything > to test. > No, just one parameter. > thx for responding. > > > bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > Bob, > > You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " > conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? > > If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to > the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. > Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. > Does it have more than 1 parameter? > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > New Zealand > > > > > At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: > >Thanks again to all. > > > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a > >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > > > >RTE is a long var. > >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 > >The code generates no errors up to the last line. > >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >Sure would like to figure this out.. > > > >Latest Code - not working: > > > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & > >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > > > >'populate the object variables > >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >True, > >CONNECT_STR) > >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute > >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" > >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > > > > >Bob Heygood > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly > >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't > recall. > >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I > >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name > >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the > >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > > > >wrote: > > > Off the top of my head... > > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > > parameter > >for an SP. > > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > > in > >some manner. > > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" > wrote: > > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > > >> code > > > below. > > >> RTE is a long var. > > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > >> > > >> any ideas?? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 'populate the object variables > > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > > >> CONNECT_STR) > > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > >> > > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 3 18:06:19 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:06:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> Message-ID: <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Thu May 5 09:45:38 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 07:45:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> Yes, the sp works on the server. I am checking on my user security level, tho my attachment / linking of tables is using the same user/pass data and successful. Sure would like to figure this out. thx to all who responded. Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 13:05:26 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:05:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) Message-ID: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> I work for Gwen, primarily doing genealogy. When there are computer issues while I'm here, she has me troubleshoot them too. Last week, day after her husband was burned over 27% of her body, one of her two printers broke and I had to run to store and get another. Old one HP OfficeJet Pro 8500, new one the next newer model, HP OfficeJet Pro 8500A. Even though mostly identical, the default name of old one in list of printers has a 909 in it and the new one has a 910 in it. Can't give you exact as I'm upstairs in my office and that computer/printer combo is downstairs in living room. I don't believe it's pertinent anyway. Point is they are almost identical. Now, on to the problem. Old database, I think originally Access 2000. Not a very professionally done one, but it works. Tons of names/addresses. More than a dozen reports for envelopes alone as there are different font, return address, and envelope size combinations for different purposes. Trying to print one gives a message to the effect of this was formatted for abc printer which isn't available do you want to print to default printer. After doing a bunch of Googling, I successfully opened one of the reports in design view, which along the way asked about the printer and I chose the new printer. Then saved the report. I can now print - HOWEVER. #10 envelope, it used to be: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| But now it's printing 3 envelopes like this -------------| Printing | | | | | | | | -------------| Then Addressee on next envelope and then a blank one. All I did was change the printer, so why did it change the orientation? How do I fix the whole db without having to change each report separately? I found a bunch of pages that talk about changing printers programmatically and other terms but they were all beyond my kindergarten skills of access. I'm fairly decent except when it comes to the visual basic stuff. Tables, queries using drag/drop, reports, I'm ok with, but not code. So remember that when you help. I can send a copy of the database if that would help, but of course you don't have our printers. It's 11am my time, I leave for home at 3pm (not back until Monday). Gwen's desperate as she has lots of envelopes to print to mail updates on husband's condition to those without email (he's in first skin graft surgery as I write). Handwriting them not an option as she's got post-polio and writing that many envelopes is problematic. Here's hoping one of you has a quick solution I can understand and act on. -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Thu May 5 15:05:00 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 08:05:00 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> Message-ID: <20110505200732.EUZ26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Bob, Have you tried running any other stored procedures using your code (even creating a simple one with no parameters)? David At 6/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Yes, the sp works on the server. > >I am checking on my user security level, tho my attachment / linking of >tables is using the same user/pass data and successful. > >Sure would like to figure this out. > >thx to all who responded. > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:06 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything >to test. >No, just one parameter. >thx for responding. > > >bob > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >Bob, > >You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " >conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? > >If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to >the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. >Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. >Does it have more than 1 parameter? > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >New Zealand > > > > >At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: > >Thanks again to all. > > > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a > >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > > > >RTE is a long var. > >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 > >The code generates no errors up to the last line. > >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >Sure would like to figure this out.. > > > >Latest Code - not working: > > > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & > >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > > > >'populate the object variables > >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >True, > >CONNECT_STR) > >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute > >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" > >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > > > > >Bob Heygood > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly > >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't >recall. > >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I > >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name > >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the > >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > > > >wrote: > > > Off the top of my head... > > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > > parameter > >for an SP. > > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > > in > >some manner. > > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > > >> code > > > below. > > >> RTE is a long var. > > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > >> > > >> any ideas?? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 'populate the object variables > > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > > >> CONNECT_STR) > > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > >> > > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 15:10:27 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:10:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> Message-ID: <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> Making progress. It looks like I will ultimately have to take care of things one report at a time, but that's doable. I can get the printer and the orientation to stick. That issue turned out to be that I have to save the report itself. Saving the database doesn't save the change in the report. However, there is still something wrong. Instead of printing this: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| It's eliminating the Return address and printing the Addressee at the top of the envelope like this: -----------------------| Addressee | | -----------------------| I didn't change anything on the layout itself, so don't know why that's happening. The only difference in the way the envelope goes in the printer is that it goes in the tray this way -------------| \ | \ | \ | \ | / | / | / | / | -------------| Instead of this way -------------| /| / | / | / | \ | \ | \ | \| -------------| On OT, John B suggested "Personally, since it's just a standard #10 envelope report, I'd just start over and create a new report to work with any printer". But I can't figure out how to make a new report based on a standard envelope. Haven't found a place to say "make a report based on #10". I always have to set the sizes of the page by dragging the margins, etc and futz around with it. How do you do it? I'd love to have a quick/easy way to do it, especially since I not only have the #10's but some A9's and A8's as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope#North_American_sizes -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu May 5 15:33:21 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:33:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Kathryn To set the layout to a #10 envelope, open a new report in design mode and select Page Setup from the File menu (I'm doing this in Access 2002, but A97 was the same AFIR). >From there select the Page tab, and choose #10 from the Paper Size combo. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 4:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) Making progress. It looks like I will ultimately have to take care of things one report at a time, but that's doable. I can get the printer and the orientation to stick. That issue turned out to be that I have to save the report itself. Saving the database doesn't save the change in the report. However, there is still something wrong. Instead of printing this: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| It's eliminating the Return address and printing the Addressee at the top of the envelope like this: -----------------------| Addressee | | -----------------------| I didn't change anything on the layout itself, so don't know why that's happening. The only difference in the way the envelope goes in the printer is that it goes in the tray this way -------------| \ | \ | \ | \ | / | / | / | / | -------------| Instead of this way -------------| /| / | / | / | \ | \ | \ | \| -------------| On OT, John B suggested "Personally, since it's just a standard #10 envelope report, I'd just start over and create a new report to work with any printer". But I can't figure out how to make a new report based on a standard envelope. Haven't found a place to say "make a report based on #10". I always have to set the sizes of the page by dragging the margins, etc and futz around with it. How do you do it? I'd love to have a quick/easy way to do it, especially since I not only have the #10's but some A9's and A8's as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope#North_American_sizes -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 16:36:14 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:36:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> Message-ID: <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but at least she'll be able to print them. -- Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 5 17:43:47 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 15:43:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> Check your margins. It sounds like the margin is set wider than the print stock so your getting an extra page. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but at least she'll be able to print them. -- Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Thu May 5 21:35:09 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:35:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> Message-ID: <007801cc0b96$383b92d0$a8b2b870$@net> I thought about that but the page setting is for #10 envelope. In properties, there's no place for margins. I tightened up things even with that, and it still didn't make a difference. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 3:44 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) > > Check your margins. It sounds like the margin is set wider than the print > stock so your getting an extra page. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:36 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) > > More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope > for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but > at least she'll be able to print them. > > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 5 21:58:04 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:58:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Transactions in Access In-Reply-To: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> References: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6AB8C63AF3C746518109B00DCE9EF845@creativesystemdesigns.com> Well Dan: I just keep learning things... Thanks for the information. Whether this knowledge finds a place in the old tool box we will have to wait and see. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Transactions in Access Hi Jim, This is the code for transactions in Access. This shows just one procedure, where two different tables are affected. If your code is running through several procedures, where a total of 2 or more table operations are performed, then the transactions code should 'encapsulate' all of those procedures. If you are only performing an operation on one table, then your normal error handling method can pick up on that. A caveat - transactions will rollback where you are executing a SQL string (or using DoCmd.RunSQL), but not when you are changing values in a form, and not if you are changing values using a recordset. So, you must not have those data-changing operations within the code that is encapsulated by ws.BeginTrans and ws.EndTrans. I had to do a little 'refactoring', but it worked out. In addition, this will speed up your system. What happens is that none of the changes are actually 'committed' until you reach the ws.CommitTrans method, so a committed data change is done only once. So transactions can also be used as a method to speed up your application where you have multiple discrete table operations in a single code execution sequence. For Access transactions, the help files were pretty good. Hope this helps! '------------------------- Sub XXX Dim ws As Workspace '-- Some code Set ws = DBEngine(0) ws.BeginTrans On Error GoTo EH ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "DELETE ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "INSERT ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ws.CommitTrans dbForceOSFlush On Error GoTo 0 '-- More code XH: '-- Exit Here Set ws = Nothing Exit sub EH: '-- Error Handler ws.Rollback Call RollbackErrorMessage '-- Optional Resume XH End Sub '------------------------- Public Sub RollbackErrorMessage() Dim stgPrompt As String stgPrompt = "The action you just took was cancelled because the data changes could not be saved to the server. No changes have been saved - wait a few seconds and try again." _ & vbNewLine & vbNewLine _ & "This probably happened due to a multi-user data change conflict, but might have happened due to an error. If this happens frequently, contact your System Administrator.@ @" FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, stgPrompt, vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "No Changes Saved" Exit Sub ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Sub '------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 08:51:13 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:51:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized Message-ID: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Hi, I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is resized. I have this code, on a test form. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Dim mbUnloading As Boolean Private Sub Form_Load() Debug.Print "Load" End Sub Private Sub Form_Resize() If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub Debug.Print "Resize" End Sub Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) Debug.Print "Unloading" mbUnloading = True End Sub The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times instead of twice? In fact, since multiple clicks of the command button that maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: Private Sub Form_Load() DoCmd.Maximize End Sub From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 6 12:27:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:27:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form is reopened. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > Hi, > > I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is > resized. I have this code, on a test form. > > Option Compare Database > Option Explicit > Dim mbUnloading As Boolean > > Private Sub Form_Load() > ? ? Debug.Print "Load" > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Resize() > ? ? If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub > ? ? Debug.Print "Resize" > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) > ? ? Debug.Print "Unloading" > ? ? mbUnloading = True > End Sub > > > The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the > form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the > resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. > But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word > "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is > running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? > > Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had > last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on > form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button > click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why > Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times > instead of twice? In fact, ?since multiple clicks of the command button that > maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me > that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should > be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: > ? ? ? ?Private Sub Form_Load() > ? ? ? ? ? ? DoCmd.Maximize > ? ? ? ?End Sub > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 16:17:31 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:17:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Charlotte .... I do not follow you. Since the application is calling the event an indeterminate number of times I don't know where to set the variable to True. And where to set it to False. I want the procedures to run once on Form Load and then again only any time the user changes the form size by any means EXCEPT merely deactivating and reactivating the form. I have struggled with this for hours. I did have a IgnoreResize variable which I would set to true in the Load event.... and then set to False before exiting Resize event. but because it passes through resize event up to three times when form is maxed then some unwanted repetitions happen. I think some of my code inside the Resize event that is altering the insidewidth, optimizing widths of certain controls, and proportioning distances between some controls is causing Resize to get called again. Not sure...very hard to debug. For example I use CreateForm to create a hidden form with a label that I can SizeToFit to assist with determining the optimal width of some controls on my other form that got resized by the user or on Load. This causes my main form to be deactivated I suppose, triggering the Resize event on the main form. Again ....hard to know what the code is doing to form focuses in the runtime because I can't get the same behaviors I'm debug mode than when not debugging. I am soon to skip the whole resize event and add a button for optimizing form insidewidth and the position of controls. I am just too inexperienced and impatient. On May 6, 2011 1:29 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: > Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last > window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes > through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading > variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set > when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where > you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. > Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form > is reopened. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) > wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is >> resized. I have this code, on a test form. >> >> Option Compare Database >> Option Explicit >> Dim mbUnloading As Boolean >> >> Private Sub Form_Load() >> Debug.Print "Load" >> End Sub >> >> Private Sub Form_Resize() >> If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub >> Debug.Print "Resize" >> End Sub >> >> Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) >> Debug.Print "Unloading" >> mbUnloading = True >> End Sub >> >> >> The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the >> form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the >> resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. >> But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word >> "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is >> running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? >> >> Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had >> last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on >> form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button >> click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why >> Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times >> instead of twice? In fact, since multiple clicks of the command button that >> maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me >> that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should >> be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: >> Private Sub Form_Load() >> DoCmd.Maximize >> End Sub >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Fri May 6 17:00:44 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:00:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Message-ID: Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 17:53:53 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 18:53:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 6 19:50:19 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:50:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Set the variable to False in the Open event, then set it to true in the resize event. Test for the value in the resize event and if it's false, run the code and set it to true. Is that clearer? I'm assuming you only want to call this when the form first loads, not if the user resizes it. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:17 PM, William Benson wrote: > Hi Charlotte .... > I do not follow you. Since the application is calling the event an > indeterminate number of times I don't know where to set the variable to > True. And where to set it to False. > > I want the procedures to run once on Form Load and then again only any time > the user changes the form size by any means EXCEPT merely deactivating and > reactivating the form. > > I have struggled with this for hours. I did have a IgnoreResize variable > which I would set to true in the Load event.... and then set to False before > exiting Resize event. but because it passes through resize event up to three > times when form is maxed then some unwanted repetitions happen. > > I think some of my code inside the Resize event that is altering the > insidewidth, optimizing widths of certain controls, and proportioning > distances between some controls is causing Resize to get called again. Not > sure...very hard to debug. For example I use CreateForm to create a hidden > form with a label that I can SizeToFit to assist with determining the > optimal width of some controls on my other form that got resized by the user > or on Load. This causes my main form to be deactivated I suppose, triggering > the Resize event on the main form. Again ....hard to know what the code is > doing to form focuses in the runtime because I can't get the same behaviors > I'm debug mode than when not debugging. > > I am soon to skip the whole resize event and add a button for optimizing > form insidewidth and the position of controls. I am just too inexperienced > and impatient. > On May 6, 2011 1:29 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: >> Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last >> window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes >> through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading >> variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set >> when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where >> you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. >> Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form >> is reopened. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is >>> resized. I have this code, on a test form. >>> >>> Option Compare Database >>> Option Explicit >>> Dim mbUnloading As Boolean >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Load() >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Load" >>> End Sub >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Resize() >>> ? ? If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Resize" >>> End Sub >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Unloading" >>> ? ? mbUnloading = True >>> End Sub >>> >>> >>> The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the >>> form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the >>> resize event is called only once according to the immediate window > results. >>> But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word >>> "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is >>> running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? >>> >>> Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form > had >>> last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times > on >>> form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a > button >>> click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why >>> Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times >>> instead of twice? In fact, ?since multiple clicks of the command button > that >>> maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to > me >>> that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize > should >>> be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: >>> ? ? ? ?Private Sub Form_Load() >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? DoCmd.Maximize >>> ? ? ? ?End Sub >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sat May 7 04:42:31 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 19:42:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Message-ID: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 7 06:22:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 07:22:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC52B81.8070507@colbyconsulting.com> Are you sure the stack overflow is occurring in this function? IOW if you don't do this count do you eventually get the stack overflow? If so then my guess is a follows: Local variables inside of a function are placed on the stack. In this case the local variable that could be giving you problems is the F as string. What may be happening is that this F is getting extremely long and filling up the stack. Make F global. Doing so will force VBA to place the variable on the heap which is essentially infinite, and thus the size of F can grow as big as needed. Can you use the File System Object? This is an object that represents the file system of the computer. Using that would allow you to directly get the count of files in the directory object. Unfortunately in many cases the FSO is not available if tight security has been implemented. Check it out though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/7/2011 5:42 AM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just > want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some > occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer > window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have > a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually > run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder& "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f)<> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow > errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat May 7 07:36:11 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 07:36:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <000f01cc0cb3$591528e0$0b3f7aa0$@comcast.net> Whenever I do anything file related, I include a DoEvents method - like this: Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ DoEvents Loop I've solved a lot of issues this way. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren - Active Billing Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:43 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 7 14:42:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 12:42:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <818FFDBFCF624C11BD68366986E5CA9C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Darren: Do any of your calls open objects but do not close them and set them to nothing on exiting the function or subroutine? If this is the case then you could have a stack over-flow. The only other reason I can think of is if you are assigning too much data to a specific variable or object. Note: I have found application objects very prone to stack over-flows and other bizarre activities if not handled just right. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren - Active Billing Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 2:43 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 7 15:18:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 06:18:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC5A92D.8351.DAE0371@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is repeatedly calling that sub. I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! -- Stuart On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I > just want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on > some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an > Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that > (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I > eventually run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f) <> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack > Overflow errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun May 8 20:47:48 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 11:47:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder - solved Message-ID: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> Hi guys Thanks for the responses. I rejigged it all - especially taking note of what Stuart said about the issue being in the loop not the call I also got some of the math done at the start point and held them in globals rather than doing the all the math each time in the loop And it's all good So it seems the logic and methods were (kinda) ok - the placement and order of them was not Many thanks for your ideas and pointers Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, 8 May 2011 6:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is repeatedly calling that sub. I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! -- Stuart On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I > just want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on > some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an > Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that > (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I > eventually run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f) <> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack > Overflow errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 09:39:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 10:39:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder - solved In-Reply-To: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> References: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC7FCBD.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Glad you got it working. Thanks for reporting back. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/8/2011 9:47 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > Thanks for the responses. > I rejigged it all - especially taking note of what Stuart said about the > issue being in the loop not the call > I also got some of the math done at the start point and held them in globals > rather than doing the all the math each time in the loop > And it's all good > So it seems the logic and methods were (kinda) ok - the placement and order > of them was not > Many thanks for your ideas and pointers > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, 8 May 2011 6:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder > > Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is > repeatedly calling that sub. > I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! > > -- > Stuart > > On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help >> >> We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I >> just want to count them during the process. >> >> I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. >> >> I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on >> some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. >> >> Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an >> Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. >> >> Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that >> (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). >> >> Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I >> eventually run into stack overflows. >> >> Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. >> >> >> >> Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) >> >> Dim f As String >> >> Dim c As Long >> >> >> >> f = Dir$(strPathFolder& "*.xml") >> >> >> >> Do While Len(f)<> 0 >> >> c = c + 1 >> >> f = Dir$ >> >> Loop >> >> >> >> End sub >> >> >> >> I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack >> Overflow errors. >> >> I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 >> seconds to update the progress bar. >> >> But it looks like this is not going to be possible >> >> Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? >> Thanks heaps in advance team >> Darren >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 09:55:10 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:55:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SusanAccessD at azmom.com Mon May 9 10:42:18 2011 From: SusanAccessD at azmom.com (SusanAccessD at azmom.com) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 08:42:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 9 10:51:54 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 11:51:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 12:07:54 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 12:07:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com><003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: Well Thanks guys and gals. We couldn't get the SQL instructions to work it kept returning Object not found "Select * From, Project Month And Year" However somehow I tried this MonthStartDate = DLookup("[MonthStartDate]", (cstrQryName)) MonthEndDate = DLookup("[MonthEndDate]", (cstrQryName)) And I got it to work. I had tried it before but must have had something just not right. I have been working on this for two days. I changed the variables to MSD and MED jut to see if they were extracted from the table. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 9 12:18:24 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:18:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com><003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the spaces in the query name. Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 1:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Well Thanks guys and gals. We couldn't get the SQL instructions to work it kept returning Object not found "Select * From, Project Month And Year" However somehow I tried this MonthStartDate = DLookup("[MonthStartDate]", (cstrQryName)) MonthEndDate = DLookup("[MonthEndDate]", (cstrQryName)) And I got it to work. I had tried it before but must have had something just not right. I have been working on this for two days. I changed the variables to MSD and MED jut to see if they were extracted from the table. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 12:22:56 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:22:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 13:31:36 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:31:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 15:21:58 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:21:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003901cc0e86$c051e1e0$40f5a5a0$@gmail.com> >>a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. A fiscal calendar table is the way to go. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 9 15:47:51 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:47:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Message-ID: Hi Steve If so, these functions may be useful for you: Public Function DateWeekFirst( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the first date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekFirst = DateAdd("d", vbSunday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function Public Function DateWeekLast( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the last date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekLast = DateAdd("d", vbSaturday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function /gustav >>> sturner at mseco.com 09-05-2011 20:31 >>> Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 16:50:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 07:50:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Advice to young developers: Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. :-) -- Stuart On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > spaces in the query name. > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > Lambert :-) > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 16:54:43 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:54:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , , <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thanks good advice. I normally don't. Jut did on this. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 4:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Advice to young developers: Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. :-) -- Stuart On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > spaces in the query name. > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > Lambert :-) > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon May 9 16:54:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 14:54:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: So true! Let's not forget naming fields "Date, Month, Year" and "Name" :) D On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it > WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > > spaces in the query name. > > > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > > > Lambert :-) > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 16:55:57 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:55:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Gustav We will keep and try this out. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 3:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Hi Steve If so, these functions may be useful for you: Public Function DateWeekFirst( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the first date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekFirst = DateAdd("d", vbSunday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function Public Function DateWeekLast( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the last date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekLast = DateAdd("d", vbSaturday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function /gustav >>> sturner at mseco.com 09-05-2011 20:31 >>> Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 17:35:51 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 18:35:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000501cc0e99$740101f0$5c0305d0$@gmail.com> And Value and Index... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help So true! Let's not forget naming fields "Date, Month, Year" and "Name" :) D On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was > > the spaces in the query name. > > > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > > > Lambert :-) > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 17:40:10 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 18:40:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor Message-ID: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code for in Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no problem." Well, it kinda is. One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control write code such as Ctrl.Top (there is no "Top" property associated with every single Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went back to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. Is this a setting that can be banished? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 18:18:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:18:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 9 18:32:10 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:32:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3F42E714F91E4588A82B867C764EE25D@XPS> Steve, A query def simply represents a stored SQL statement. So you can do this: 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) If rstEnd.EOF then MSD = Null MED = Null Else MED = rstEnd![MonthStartDate] MED = rstEnd![MonthEndDate] End If rstEnd.Close Set rstEnd = Nothing Or this: strSQL = "SELECT * FROM ;" Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(strSQL) If rstEnd.EOF then MSD = Null MED = Null Else MED = rstEnd![MonthStartDate] MED = rstEnd![MonthEndDate] End If rstEnd.Close Set rstEnd = Nothing Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 9 19:18:18 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 10:18:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 9 19:43:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 17:43:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5C3DF38D939247C59F8F1099EC2ACF82@HAL9005> I was warned off them when I first joined this list in A97 days - all domain functions actually because they were so much slower than opening a recordset either filtered or using FindFirst to get a value, and then closing it. I use them now to look up things in local tables or on linked tables in places in the code where I know it will not be in a loop with lots of iterations - like retrieving a value from a preferences table. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 9 20:21:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 20:21:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also installed? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 20:37:44 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:37:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com>, <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DC896E8.16313.E6400@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Installed, yes. In use, no. Many people use non MS email clients even though they are using Word, Excel etc. On 9 May 2011 at 20:21, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is > also installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 20:44:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:44:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> More info required. Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. Just about every email client uses a different format for storing retreived. On 9 May 2011 at 19:18, jwcolby wrote: > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 9 20:57:35 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:57:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC896E8.16313.E6400@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105100157.p4A1vgon017650@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Maybe not even installed anymore if they are using the newer versions of Office. For several options of the Office Suites you need to purchase MS Outlook seperately now (same with MS Access). I can't speak for everyone, but at this point I gave up on MS Outlook and now use Thunderbird instead. Can't really see any upside to paying extra mulla for an Email client & Calendar I don't use much anyway. If it was included I would have kept using it but now it is not even installed on my windows 7 PC. Of course other folks may find more value with continuing to use MS Outlook and are prepared to pay the money (It was about $100 AUD last time I looked, but that was a while back now), but it is likely to be less of a 'given' now included as a default software package in all Office Suites. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] POP mail automation Installed, yes. In use, no. Many people use non MS email clients even though they are using Word, Excel etc. On 9 May 2011 at 20:21, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is > also installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 21:21:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:21:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DC8A12C.10005@colbyconsulting.com> > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also installed? Nope. I am setting up an Access runtime, and Outlook is not included AFAICT. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/9/2011 9:21 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also > installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now > need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is > that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's > machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 21:29:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:29:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DC8A318.3060000@colbyconsulting.com> > Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. Well, it really depends on what I am doing. I think pull down the emails and allow Access to "read them". Just as an example one client will be sending out email to volunteers working an event. I would like to set up some sort of "opt-out" where they could reply with a code in the subject which would cause me to remove them from the list. In other cases I might send out a word document which the user could open and fill out and then return. I have never done either of these things so I am not exactly sure where I can take this. Basically I need to be able to pull in emails into a lightweight automatable client and do things with them. I automate Outlook for clients, but I cannot be certain that the user of any given app will own outlook. At a minimum I would like to be able to read the from, subject and also see attachments. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/9/2011 9:44 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > More info required. > > Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access > application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. > > Just about every email client uses a different format for storing retreived. > > > > On 9 May 2011 at 19:18, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small >> e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but >> I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. >> The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is >> running on the user's machine. >> >> Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from >> Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing >> list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon May 9 23:39:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 21:39:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor In-Reply-To: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> References: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Why are you trying to write code using a property that doesn't apply to the generic object? If you wait until you set the control object to a particular kind of control that has a Top property, your code will work. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:40 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code for in > Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no problem." Well, > it kinda is. > > One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control write > code such as > > Ctrl.Top ? ? ?(there is no "Top" property associated with every single > Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing > Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went back > to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. > > Is this a setting that can be banished? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 10 01:32:47 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 02:32:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor In-Reply-To: References: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000a01cc0edc$14b56d10$3e204730$@gmail.com> My code traditionally includes loops like For each ctrl in Controls If TypeOf Ctrl is Access.CommandButton then If Ctrl.Caption like "ButtonsOnRightOfForm*" then Set Btn = Ctrl 'Do something based on the .Left property of the Button But frequently I take a shortcut and just use If TypeOf Ctrl is Access.CommandButton then If Ctrl.Caption like "ButtonsOnRightOfForm*" then 'Do something based on the .Left property of Ctrl Anyway, my question about the VBE still hangs out there if you or another has an answer... it is a different behavior between 2010 and 2003 unless it involves an Option in the VBE which I do not know about. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor Why are you trying to write code using a property that doesn't apply to the generic object? If you wait until you set the control object to a particular kind of control that has a Top property, your code will work. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:40 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code > for in Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no > problem." Well, it kinda is. > > One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control > write code such as > > Ctrl.Top ? ? ?(there is no "Top" property associated with every single > Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing > Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went > back to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. > > Is this a setting that can be banished? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From palodurogrowers at suddenlink.net Tue May 10 08:30:24 2011 From: palodurogrowers at suddenlink.net (Tim Thiessen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:30:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I used to be a member but have been off for several years because of job changes. I can't seem to get to the archives. Are they still available? I'm looking for information on using Access with Quickbooks. Tim Thiessen From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 08:43:41 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:43:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Darryl I've never had any issue with DLookup, and it is not true that it is slow. It can be slow, but so can opening and searching a recordset be. Indeed in reports, speed often is of minor importance. That said, I don't use it that much, but here and there it provides a quick and simple solution. Like everything else it can be abused, and that seems to be the case in your application. /gustav >>> Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au 10-05-2011 02:18 >>> Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 10 08:46:41 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 09:46:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 08:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 08:54:22 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:54:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Darryl Jim is right, such constructions are awful. But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in one call indeed is possible, like: =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 09:56:59 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 16:56:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: Hi John You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp Example code for reading headers only: http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18 >>> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 10 12:03:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 13:03:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> It is inexpensive. Have you used it? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/10/2011 10:56 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: > > http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp > > Example code for reading headers only: > http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18>>> > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured > out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail > account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the > user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 12:51:33 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:51:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Hi All I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to do a multiple LIKE selection from Access XP ie in the query criteria [Status] LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting a syntax error from the ODBC driver Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, any help greatly appreciated..... TIA Robin Lawrence From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue May 10 12:57:22 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 12:57:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses % instead of the asterisk. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi All I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to do a multiple LIKE selection from Access XP ie in the query criteria [Status] LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting a syntax error from the ODBC driver Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, any help greatly appreciated..... TIA Robin Lawrence -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 13:11:31 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 19:11:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue May 10 15:30:52 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 22:30:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue May 10 15:42:32 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 16:42:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> Message-ID: I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 16:27:11 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 22:27:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J><89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J><1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> Message-ID: <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> That's right Lambert, Some of us are still too lazy to write out the proper SQL :) Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pharold at cfl.rr.com Tue May 10 16:36:48 2011 From: pharold at cfl.rr.com (Perry Harold) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 17:36:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help References: , , <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: If you switch from Access to VB it hits you in the teeth almost immediately. Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it > WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > >> Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a >> Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the >> spaces in the query name. >> >> Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" >> >> You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" >> >> Lambert :-) >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue May 10 16:55:31 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 23:55:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J><89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J><1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <36D2F38B804645DF8175B0D5F79DF357@abpc> Happy to know my grammar was right ;-) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 23:27 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC That's right Lambert, Some of us are still too lazy to write out the proper SQL :) Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 10 17:03:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:03:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC9B623.17917.4706177@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And combining that technique with Split() to get the fields into an array for further use can make it even more useful. -- Stuart On 10 May 2011 at 15:54, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Darryl > > Jim is right, such constructions are awful. > But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in > one call indeed is possible, like: > > =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & > [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> > Darryl, > > All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, > which can > be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. > > Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL > statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot > optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you > should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. > > As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() > for > example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to > do something like this: > > =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & > lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " > & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] > = " & lngEmployeeID) > > If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better > off to > open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the > entire record. > > Jim. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 10 17:17:59 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:17:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201105102218.p4AMIPDJ018580@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks Everyone, Appreciate your thoughts and feedback. cheers Darryl ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock [Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Hi Darryl Jim is right, such constructions are awful. But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in one call indeed is possible, like: =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 11 01:31:10 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:31:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: Hi John Yes, I used it in a custom app back in 2005 with excellent result. The client ceased business some years ago so I haven't any recent experience with it. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 19:03 >>> It is inexpensive. Have you used it? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/10/2011 10:56 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: > > http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp > > Example code for reading headers only: > http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18>>> > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured > out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail > account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the > user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 11 01:35:09 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:35:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Stuart That's a nice tip! Never thought of that. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 11-05-2011 00:03 >>> And combining that technique with Split() to get the fields into an array for further use can make it even more useful. -- Stuart On 10 May 2011 at 15:54, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Darryl > > Jim is right, such constructions are awful. > But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in > one call indeed is possible, like: > > =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & > [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> > Darryl, > > All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, > which can > be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. > > Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL > statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot > optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you > should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. > > As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() > for > example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to > do something like this: > > =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & > lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " > & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] > = " & lngEmployeeID) > > If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better > off to > open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the > entire record. > > Jim. From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 08:02:57 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 06:02:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 09:35:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:35:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Hi Darrell, I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 11 09:43:31 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:43:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <> No. 32/64 bit versions of Office won't mix and match at all. You can run 32 bit Office under a 64 bit OS and most are doing that. The 64 bit version of Office has had issues, most of which is a lack of anything to support it (3rd party controls, ODBC drivers, etc). Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 09:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From erbachs at gmail.com Wed May 11 09:52:07 2011 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:52:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 10:17:34 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:17:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:25:33 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:25:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even knowing it. It's the business world that is slowly making the intentional conversion. This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. The computer market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. 64 bit processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that are just allowing 32 bit OSes. I am willing to bet that the next release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hi Darrell, I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From garykjos at gmail.com Wed May 11 10:33:56 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:33:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: From: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee681792.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The recommendations for which edition of Office 2010 to install are as follows: ----> If users in your organization depend on existing extensions to Office, such as ActiveX controls, third-party add-ins, in-house solutions built on previous versions of Office, or 32-bit versions of programs that interface directly with Office, we recommend that you install 32-bit Office 2010 (the default installation) on computers that are running both 32-bit and 64-bit supported Windows operating systems. ----> If some users in your organization are Excel expert users who work with Excel spreadsheets that are larger than 2 gigabytes (GB), they can install the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. In addition, if you have in-house solution developers, we recommend that those developers have access to the 64-bit edition of Office 2010 so that they can test and update your in-house solutions on the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GK On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. ?It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. ?The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. ?64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. ?I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. ?It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 11 10:34:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:34:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <35CFAF2A4CD24CD984EBDA17A4EFD9E5@XPS> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/choose-the-32-bit-or-64-bit-vers ion-of-microsoft-office-HA010369476.aspx Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:35:42 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:35:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:43:50 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:43:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com><015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Actually, I meant to put that exact link in my post, forgot too. What's key is the first part of the first paragraph: "Processors that are 64-bit are becoming the standard for systems that range from servers to desktop computers. The 64-bit systems can use more virtual and physical memory than 32-bit systems. This lets users work with much larger data sets than they could previously, and to analyze and solve large computational problems. Microsoft Office 2010 introduces native 64-bit versions of Microsoft Office products to take advantage of this larger capacity." That first sentence is an understatement. It's been the standard for years already. I have 2010 x64 installed on my home desktop (the one I described the build and upgrade process on OT). It runs great, but other than Outlook, I haven't used it much, because that machine is more of a server then a desktop to me. I just now, a few minutes ago, popped into my home machine to take a little deeper look at what Access 2010 was like....and it's still using the Access 2007 db format, so there are no db features taking advantage of 64 bit advantages. So Access 2010 is the 21st century equivalent of Access 95. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit From: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee681792.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The recommendations for which edition of Office 2010 to install are as follows: ----> If users in your organization depend on existing extensions to Office, such as ActiveX controls, third-party add-ins, in-house solutions built on previous versions of Office, or 32-bit versions of programs that interface directly with Office, we recommend that you install 32-bit Office 2010 (the default installation) on computers that are running both 32-bit and 64-bit supported Windows operating systems. ----> If some users in your organization are Excel expert users who work with Excel spreadsheets that are larger than 2 gigabytes (GB), they can install the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. In addition, if you have in-house solution developers, we recommend that those developers have access to the 64-bit edition of Office 2010 so that they can test and update your in-house solutions on the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GK On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. ?It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. ?The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. ?64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. ?I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. ?It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 10:58:50 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:58:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! In the meantime here we are in the "Office 95" era waiting for MS to figure it out and the rest of the world to catch up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 11:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. 64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 11:00:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:00:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? Message-ID: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From kismert at gmail.com Wed May 11 11:02:35 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:02:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: I personally hate all of the Microsoft email options. I've tried CDO, CDONTS, and MAPI, and all have crippling drawbacks. I finally found a WinSock-based VBA module that sends email with no fuss: no external references are required, just hooks to kernel32 and wsock32 dlls. But even this code isn't up to my standards, so I can't recommend it as a truly robust CDO alternative. Also worth noting: fake sendmail for windows http://glob.com.au/sendmail/ It's a command-line exe that you can shell out to send emails. Also, see the "alternatives" section. -Ken -----Original Message----- > From: jwcolby > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 11:03:43 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:03:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: LOL, so true! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! In the meantime here we are in the "Office 95" era waiting for MS to figure it out and the rest of the world to catch up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 11:17:20 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:17:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed May 11 11:22:32 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:22:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000d01cc0ff7$a31f7bb0$e95e7310$@comcast.net> I've been using Outlook Evader from everthingaccess.com for several months now. It 'evades' the email security message, and provides other features. In my system I can create an option for each user to say if they want emails saved into their Sent Items folder, or not! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] POP mail automation I personally hate all of the Microsoft email options. I've tried CDO, CDONTS, and MAPI, and all have crippling drawbacks. I finally found a WinSock-based VBA module that sends email with no fuss: no external references are required, just hooks to kernel32 and wsock32 dlls. But even this code isn't up to my standards, so I can't recommend it as a truly robust CDO alternative. Also worth noting: fake sendmail for windows http://glob.com.au/sendmail/ It's a command-line exe that you can shell out to send emails. Also, see the "alternatives" section. -Ken -----Original Message----- > From: jwcolby > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 11:37:09 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:37:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 11:44:17 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:44:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install?" Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 11 12:03:34 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:03:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> Message-ID: If you don't use a shortcut and the user double clicks the app, it will try to open using the installed version of Access, not the runtime. Charlotte Foust On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Darrell Burns wrote: > ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime > install?" > > > > Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? > > --DB > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > > > Darrell, > > > > If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? > > Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you > > install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file > > under your runtime install? > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > > package and it didn't work at their place. > > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > > abandon the 32-bit version. > > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > > > Thanx, > > DB > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 12:07:01 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:07:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 12:20:50 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:20:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> Message-ID: <008001cc0fff$d3405eb0$79c11c10$@cox.net> The Access runtime is a totally separate installation of a version of Access on a computer that is independent of any version of Access or office the user may have on the computer. If you don't have a shortcut that opens your application using the runtime version your going to have the problems your seeing. We install our Access 2002 runtime on many computers having various versions of Office on them or not. Our application runs in Access 2002, not whatever version of Access the user has. We install the Access runtime. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install?" Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 12:23:28 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:23:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 12:43:52 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:43:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 12:45:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:45:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: <008d01cc1003$3ab49040$b01db0c0$@cox.net> The purpose of Microsoft providing a runtime version of Access is to allow users without Access to run your app. You can also install the runtime version of Access on a computer that already has Access installed, any version. A properly installed runtime will operate completely independently of whatever other version of Access is on the computer, thus we can run Access 2002 on any Windows computer no matter what other versions of Access are on it. In your case you don't have to uninstall the clients Office 64, just install the Access 2007 runtime. See http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=d9ae78d9-9dc6-4b 38-9fa6-2c745a175aed&displaylang=en. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Wed May 11 12:49:13 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:49:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Well we have now. :-) A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. ??? I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 13:03:26 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:03:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: <000501cc1005$b9ab8b90$2d02a2b0$@winhaven.net> Darrell, the point of my question was (not knowing how large of a customer - how many installs - this is) that if they didn't have a specific reason, maybe they'd prefer to install the 32 bit version and avoid all the hassles. In that case, you'd look like a hero. Access isn't going to be the only 64 bit problem to present itself. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 13:06:21 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:06:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 14:12:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:12:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DCADF8B.4040502@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, many non-native English speakers don't write English all that well. OTOH I don't write anything except English so who am I to complain. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 1:49 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Well we have now. :-) > > A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual > > "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" > > So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. > > ??? > > I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? > > http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 14:16:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:16:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DCAE0A7.1020605@colbyconsulting.com> This appears to be an open source attempt to do a SVN integration with Access. I didn't download it yet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 1:49 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Well we have now. :-) > > A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual > > "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" > > So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. > > ??? > > I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? > > http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 14:44:01 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:44:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 11 15:08:31 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 06:08:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: , <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net>, Message-ID: <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Imagine? I don't have to. :-) I've had Quad Integers (64bit) and Currency (64 bit - 4 decimal places) and Extended Currency( larger range, 2 decimal places) in PowerBasic for years. -- Stuart On 11 May 2011 at 10:35, Drew Wutka wrote: > What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better > than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go > beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck > with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database > version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X > controls, > etc. > > I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so > I canned it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > John, > > >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use > >> it. > > >> << > > Fascinating. Why is that? > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow > wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit > Office. Microsoft does > > > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > > 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app > > runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > > > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > > can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both > > worlds with just one version? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 15:33:19 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:33:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net>, <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Imagine? I don't have to. :-) I've had Quad Integers (64bit) and Currency (64 bit - 4 decimal places) and Extended Currency( larger range, 2 decimal places) in PowerBasic for years. -- Stuart On 11 May 2011 at 10:35, Drew Wutka wrote: > What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better > than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go > beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck > with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database > version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X > controls, > etc. > > I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so > I canned it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > John, > > >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use > >> it. > > >> << > > Fascinating. Why is that? > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow > wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit > Office. Microsoft does > > > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > > 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app > > runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > > > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > > can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both > > worlds with just one version? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 11 16:21:41 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 17:21:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001401cc1021$6c778880$45669980$@gmail.com> The next version's coding is done, they're just getting the documentation translated is what is taking so long... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? Well we have now. :-) A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. ??? I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 12 13:42:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:42:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 12 14:28:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:28:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?LSI_MegaRAID_SAS/SATA_9265-8i_6Gb/s_PC?= =?windows-1252?q?Ie_RAID_Card_Review_=96_Performance_Unleashed!_=7C_The_S?= =?windows-1252?q?SD_Review?= Message-ID: <4DCC34C3.4080302@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/lsi-megaraid-sassata-9265-8i-6gbs-pcie-raid-controller-card-review/ From bheid at sc.rr.com Thu May 12 17:24:36 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 18:24:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> Message-ID: <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 12 17:56:13 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:56:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <00d501cc10f7$cb400a00$61c01e00$@com> Hi Doug. I changed the context in my question below...I wasn't referring to runtime, so I believe Drew's answer was correct. Thanx, DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 12 18:01:00 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:01:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 12 18:54:33 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:54:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <001b01cc10ff$f15312c0$d3f93840$@cox.net> I don't really know what the advantage of the 64 bit version of Access is. It seems that there are compatibility issues if you use it. Most of the literature I have seen recommends against the 64 bit version of Office. The Access runtimes will work on 32 or 64 bit machines. The big question is how you set up the runtimes on the target machines. If you have a package that you send to clients that they run to install your app. on their computers then you need to worry about the installer. Most folks recommend going with Sagekey scripts for this approach. If you set the runtime up yourself then it should work well. There can be issues if the client has other versions of Office installed on the same machine as your runtime. This is no different than what happens if folks have two versions of Access installed on their computer. If you don't handle the startup of the application in the correct version your app. will try to open in whatever version of Access was run last. This can lead to problems. For runtimes it is recommended that you have a shortcut that causes the application to open using the runtime Access installation. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 4:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri May 13 02:39:27 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 02:39:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: The advantage is a little difficult to see right now. The best way is to jump back in time. Let's say you developed in Access 1.0 or 2.0, and let's say they came out with Access 3.0, as both a 16 bit version, and a 32 bit version. But a large amount of things didn't work with the 32 bit version. But Windows 95 was going to push things into the 32 bit direction...and it was going to spread like wild fire. The advantage of learning the quirks and ins and out of the 32 bit version was going to give you a leg up in the next few years. That is what the 64 bit version does. It allows you to get ready for a change. A change that is coming, whether we like it or not. 64 bit is here. Windows 7 is probably (and this is JUST my opinion) going to be the LAST Windows OS that is available in a 32 bit version. Right now, on a 64 bit OS, the ONLY way to run 16 bit applications is in a virtual environment. It is not going to be very long, probably less than a decade when 128 bit systems are as spread around as 64 bit systems are now. (check every machine you have purchased or worked on in the last 5 years... they are all going to be 64 bit machines, but if purchased before Windows 7, most will be running 32 bit OSes). When 128 bit processors are more dominant, and OSes move to use that structure, 32 bit applications are going to have the same problems that 16 bit applications do now.... so moving to 64 bit right now is going to get you on the wagon for the next decade. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 6:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-525 0-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 13 05:51:18 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 06:51:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 13 09:05:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 09:05:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> Message-ID: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 13 09:16:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 10:16:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Sounds like you're on the Market Research Team for Sage :) Arthur On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:05 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Jim, > I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have > something that will make it work? > > John B. > From john at winhaven.net Fri May 13 10:17:51 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 10:17:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <003101cc1180$ecf3aba0$c6db02e0$@winhaven.net> Sage has saved me from all of these types of headaches over the last 10 years. I suppose I should just look at their website and post a link each time the subject comes up ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 9:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Sounds like you're on the Market Research Team for Sage :) Arthur On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:05 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Jim, > I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have > something that will make it work? > > John B. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 13 10:35:28 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 11:35:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> They have been great at isolating Access apps in the past, so that might be possible, but I have no idea if that's the case. I think though that with the standard Office installs, a 32 bit Access runtime is going to have issues along side a 64 bit Office install. Sage/Wise scripts might give a different answer though. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat May 14 15:03:16 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 16:03:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:06:13 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:06:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <003a01cc1293$e7907bc0$b6b17340$@com> 128 bit. The first computer I worked on had 128K of offline storage and I thought that was plenty. :-0 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 12:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The advantage is a little difficult to see right now. The best way is to jump back in time. Let's say you developed in Access 1.0 or 2.0, and let's say they came out with Access 3.0, as both a 16 bit version, and a 32 bit version. But a large amount of things didn't work with the 32 bit version. But Windows 95 was going to push things into the 32 bit direction...and it was going to spread like wild fire. The advantage of learning the quirks and ins and out of the 32 bit version was going to give you a leg up in the next few years. That is what the 64 bit version does. It allows you to get ready for a change. A change that is coming, whether we like it or not. 64 bit is here. Windows 7 is probably (and this is JUST my opinion) going to be the LAST Windows OS that is available in a 32 bit version. Right now, on a 64 bit OS, the ONLY way to run 16 bit applications is in a virtual environment. It is not going to be very long, probably less than a decade when 128 bit systems are as spread around as 64 bit systems are now. (check every machine you have purchased or worked on in the last 5 years... they are all going to be 64 bit machines, but if purchased before Windows 7, most will be running 32 bit OSes). When 128 bit processors are more dominant, and OSes move to use that structure, 32 bit applications are going to have the same problems that 16 bit applications do now.... so moving to 64 bit right now is going to get you on the wagon for the next decade. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 6:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-525 0-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:13:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:13:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> Message-ID: <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> I posed this question to Sage: "Can I compile a 32-bit Access 2007 runtime and install on a 64-bit Windows machine with Office 2010 64-bit?" Answer: "Our installation package can detect if the system is 32 or 64 bit and install to the correct folder (i.e. Program Files vs. Program Files (x86)). The 32-bit runtime is installed to its own default location under c:\program files (x86)\Microsoft Office." -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 8:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit They have been great at isolating Access apps in the past, so that might be possible, but I have no idea if that's the case. I think though that with the standard Office installs, a 32 bit Access runtime is going to have issues along side a 64 bit Office install. Sage/Wise scripts might give a different answer though. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:17:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:17:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> Message-ID: <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:32:30 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:32:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> Message-ID: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat May 14 20:05:03 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:05:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 21:59:29 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 19:59:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> Sorry Bobby, but what do you mean you aren't using Access? Isn't that what we're talking about? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 6:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat May 14 23:52:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:52:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS><003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I always put the path and file name in the table and leave the pdf, doc, jpg or whatever outside the db. I found that importing even the simplest graphic into an access database bloated it way beyond the size of the file being imported . Is this what you're asking? Rocky R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun May 15 05:53:06 2011 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:53:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm totally with Rocky. Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 15 May 2011 05:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I always put the path and file name in the table and leave the pdf, doc, jpg or whatever outside the db. I found that importing even the simplest graphic into an access database bloated it way beyond the size of the file being imported . Is this what you're asking? Rocky R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 15 06:25:32 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 07:25:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 10:16:00 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:16:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not > the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the > past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it > or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB > limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; > store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset > table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want > to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's > not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I > tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that > approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple > thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 10:27:10 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 08:27:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 10:49:37 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 08:49:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com><015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net><015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net><001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com><001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com><008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net><008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com><00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS><002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net><74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS><003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com><003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Sun May 15 10:57:29 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:57:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? References: Message-ID: <9F46DF8EC30B4CECB6DC78A735795252@SusanHarkins> #2 is an option. Susan H. > Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - > a > title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the > combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in > the > table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the > user > enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the > photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will > still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places > that > opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other > set. > > Still voting for keeping them outside. > > However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be > stored > in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments > reveal. > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:38:37 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:38:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? Message-ID: I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. These queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The really odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, and it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? TIA, Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:42:38 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:42:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem Message-ID: I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 12:08:34 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:08:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have you changed version of access from the one you used to originally create this form and the sql queries in your other post? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 9:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:27:37 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:27:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes I have, from A2K3 in the first place to A2007 now, but even after the upgrade this stuff worked -- that is, until recently. I backup everything daily so I think I'll open a few of the backups and see if they exhibit the problem (they didn't when the backups were made; if they do now, then it might indicate a problem with Office 2007 rather than the db. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Have you changed version of access from the one you used to originally > create this form and the sql queries in your other post? > From ssharkins at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:36:16 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:36:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? References: Message-ID: <51E889124DC14B8DA0B487D377B93A18@SusanHarkins> Changed anything recently -- anything at all? You probably know all of the rules I've linked to though. Susan H. > I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. > These > queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm > getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The > really > odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, > and > it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. > > Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? > > TIA, > Arthur From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun May 15 12:48:40 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:48:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> Darrell, I worked with a client who had a database and was using the attachment fields type to store documents. The form with those fields was really slow, painfully slow. I was not able to prove that this field type was the problem, but suggested that we store the documents separately in a document directory. The owner of the company wanted the documents in the database and for other reasons wanted to upgrade the back end to sql server. We did this and I stored the documents in binary format in sql server and the speed went up dramatically. I can't prove that attachment fields are slow, but that is my assumption. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun May 15 13:24:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:24:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you loading the subforms JIT? Charlotte Foust On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two > containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when > I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent > either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; > other times all pages but the last one are visible. > > In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible > properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. > > I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? > > Arthur > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 15 14:29:57 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:29:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 15 14:38:32 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:38:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> Message-ID: <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> << Meaning exactly what you said.>> Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. There was nothing previously there to be compatible with. <> I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know that you can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, you get data you cannot use. <> I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not reclaimed until a compact. Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an object, which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. That no longer exists with the attachment field type. And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 16:24:32 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:24:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> <0B74CAD9C 3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> Message-ID: <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> Jim, <> Good suggestion. I'll do that. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? << Meaning exactly what you said.>> Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. There was nothing previously there to be compatible with. <> I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know that you can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, you get data you cannot use. <> I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not reclaimed until a compact. Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an object, which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. That no longer exists with the attachment field type. And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 16:56:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:56:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 17:16:34 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:16:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Message-ID: I use the following to open the file: If IsNull(Me.txtPicture) Then Exit Sub Shell "RunDLL32.EXE shell32.dll,ShellExec_RunDLL " & Me.txtPicture, vbMaximizedFocus Where Me.txtPicture contains the path and file name of the target. The file is opened by the application to which the file extension is associated. So if there's a pdf in txtPicture it opens with Reader, .doc file opens with Word, etc. I suppose you could stash the path and file name of an .mdb file and it would open in Access. Of course, if they move the file, the link is broken. I suppose I should put a FIleExists check before the Shell and give a freindly message if the file's not there. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper > around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be > deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 15 17:17:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:17:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> References: , <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS>, <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> Message-ID: <4DD050FD.32014.1FCA3D7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Another solution to Bloat is to use a split FE/BE and open you app via a cmd/batch file which copies a clean FE from a central location and then runs it. Slightly slower to open the app, but you then have your temp tables in the FE which will make then faster to use. -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 14:24, Darrell Burns wrote: > Jim, > < them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can > create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables > in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in > the temp DB.>> > > Good suggestion. I'll do that. > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > << Meaning exactly what you said.>> > > Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. > There > was nothing previously there to be compatible with. > > < Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip?>> > > I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know > that you > can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export > commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, > you get data you cannot use. > > < Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this > is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat > from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to > subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked.>> > > I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data > operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not > reclaimed until a compact. > > Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an > object, > which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. > That no longer exists with the attachment field type. > > And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access > them > via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the > temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the > current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp > DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" > Meaning exactly what you said. > Re: "... the data is compressed" > Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? > Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" > Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this > is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat > from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to > subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. > Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size > increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on > Compact/Repair to control the bloat. > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not > the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the > object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a > thing of the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it > or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the > ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; > store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be > deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 15 18:01:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:01:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: , <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com>, Message-ID: <4DD05B2D.29410.2246FDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Never seen it done that way before (wrapping the associated application in a RunDLL). I just Declare ShellExecute in a "General Functions" module: Public Declare Function ShellExecute Lib "SHELL32.DLL" Alias "ShellExecuteA" (ByVal hwnd As Long, ByVal lpOperation As String, _ ByVal lpFile As String, ByVal lpParameters As String, ByVal lpDirectory As String, ByVal nShowCmd As Long) As Long and then use: If (MaterialName > "") Then If (Dir$(BEDir() & "LibMat\" & MaterialName) > "") Then ShellExecute Application.hWndAccessApp, "Open", BEDir() _ & "LibMat\" & MaterialName, "", "", vbNormalFocus Else MsgBox MaterialName & " is missing from the LibMat directory!",,strAppTitle MaterialName = "" DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord End If End If -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 15:16, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the following to open the file: > > If IsNull(Me.txtPicture) Then Exit Sub > Shell "RunDLL32.EXE shell32.dll,ShellExec_RunDLL " & > Me.txtPicture, > vbMaximizedFocus > > Where Me.txtPicture contains the path and file name of the target. > > The file is opened by the application to which the file extension is > associated. So if there's a pdf in txtPicture it opens with Reader, > .doc file opens with Word, etc. I suppose you could stash the path > and file name of an .mdb file and it would open in Access. > > Of course, if they move the file, the link is broken. I suppose I > should put a FIleExists check before the Shell and give a freindly > message if the file's not there. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Jim & Rocky, > > What I like about the Attachment object is that: > 1. it handles multiple files; > 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since > the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are > moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed > a way to mimic that functionality through links? > > Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves > thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the > record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is > displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I > wrong? > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS > SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. > Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but > then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to > initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to > record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database > was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. > > My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the > picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do > that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive > file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of > the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in > the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you > store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db > somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of > having the one set not be the same as the other set. > > Still voting for keeping them outside. > > However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be > stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your > experiments reveal. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary > data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are > experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have > associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many > photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their > arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, > simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. > So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. > > A. > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman > wrote: > > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a > > new > > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper > > around > the object. > > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > > the past. > > > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use > > Attachments? > > > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that > > it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few > > years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table > > would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per > > client. I'll be deploying > the app as a runtime. > > > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > > > Thanx, > > DB > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 15 19:43:28 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:43:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201105160043.p4G0hbnG002073@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Arthur. Sometimes the only way I have found to fix this is to import all of the forms objects and controls into a new form. That often fixes the issue. It is usually less painful that is sounds as well. cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, 16 May 2011 2:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 15 20:43:54 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 18:43:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Message-ID: <96E9AA61353E4A7081100F4D5F994A89@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Darrell: In this particular sample it is a piece of code called everytime the user moves to a new record and the directory can be any place even an html site. ... iPhotograph = GetPictureDirectory() & lEmployeeNumber & ".jpg" If Len(Dir(iPhotograph)) = 0 Then iPhotograph = gsDefaultPhotographDir & "untitled.jpg" ... 'Then in an image object on the form, in this case named PhotoImage... PhotoImage.Picture = iPhotograph(lngEmployeeNumber) I hope this is what you are queying. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 16 02:01:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:01:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Message-ID: Hi Doug You could store the attachments in a single table in a separate database with a unique key. Then you don't need to read from the attachments' table except when you need an attachment and this will be identified with its unique key. Possible bloating will be kept in that table too. Perfect if the boss won't allow discrete attachment files. /gustav >>> dhb at flsi.com 15-05-2011 23:56 >>> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 16 02:19:24 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:19:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Message-ID: Hi Stuart It's a bit more sporty to create a separate temp database and tables from scratch with DAO. It is faster than copying a file. Initially, of course, it requires a bit more code but for people like you that's more or less a copy-n-paste experience. That said, for a POS setup - where, as you know, "everything" can happen - we use a nearly locked down Windows which doesn't much more than booting, connecting the network and printers, downloading the FE and launching this. When/if "something" happens or "doesn't work", just ask the clerk to reboot. Simple but brings peace for years! /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 16-05-2011 00:17 >>> Another solution to Bloat is to use a split FE/BE and open you app via a cmd/batch file which copies a clean FE from a central location and then runs it. Slightly slower to open the app, but you then have your temp tables in the FE which will make then faster to use. -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 14:24, Darrell Burns wrote: > Jim, > < them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can > create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables > in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in > the temp DB.>> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 06:18:19 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 07:18:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No. They all load at once. I have previously used JIT in other apps but in this one I didn't. Arthur On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you loading the subforms JIT? > > Charlotte Foust > > > From dhb at flsi.com Mon May 16 06:41:25 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 04:41:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001601cc13be$3085f0a0$9191d1e0$@com> Hi Gustav. Great idea...I'll do that. Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 12:02 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Hi Doug You could store the attachments in a single table in a separate database with a unique key. Then you don't need to read from the attachments' table except when you need an attachment and this will be identified with its unique key. Possible bloating will be kept in that table too. Perfect if the boss won't allow discrete attachment files. /gustav >>> dhb at flsi.com 15-05-2011 23:56 >>> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 16 08:29:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:29:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4DD126BD.7020405@colbyconsulting.com> And storing them in SQL Server is different from storing them in Access. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/15/2011 1:48 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Darrell, > > I worked with a client who had a database and was using the attachment > fields type to store documents. The form with those fields was really slow, > painfully slow. I was not able to prove that this field type was the > problem, but suggested that we store the documents separately in a document > directory. The owner of the company wanted the documents in the database and > for other reasons wanted to upgrade the back end to sql server. We did this > and I stored the documents in binary format in sql server and the speed went > up dramatically. > > I can't prove that attachment fields are slow, but that is my assumption. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset > table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want > to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's > not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I > tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that > approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple > thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros& cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 16 08:45:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:45:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> If you moved them from Access to SQL Server they are going to fail. You probably want to switch to a dao database (currentdb) and use db.Execute strSQL, dbSeeChanges. BTW this will allow you to use db.recordsaffected to check and/or log results of the updates. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/15/2011 12:38 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. These > queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm > getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The really > odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, and > it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. > > Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? > > TIA, > Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 08:59:54 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:59:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? In-Reply-To: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I didn't move them. I haven't changed anything. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:45 AM, jwcolby wrote: > If you moved them from Access to SQL Server they are going to fail. You > probably want to switch to a dao database (currentdb) and use db.Execute > strSQL, dbSeeChanges. BTW this will allow you to use db.recordsaffected to > check and/or log results of the updates. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon May 16 10:43:27 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:43:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for you. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:18 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > No. They all load at once. I have previously used JIT in other apps but in > this one I didn't. > > Arthur > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > >> Are you loading the subforms JIT? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 10:48:13 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:48:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes > sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens > faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste > time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the > other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for > you. > > Charlotte Foust > > From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 16 15:31:29 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:31:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue Message-ID: I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From bheid at sc.rr.com Mon May 16 16:11:47 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:11:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> Message-ID: <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> I am using .Net (ASP.Net/VB.Net) to read Excel files. The 2010 Access runtime (which is what I thought we were talking about) has the OLEDB drivers that I am using to do this and the runtime comes in comes both 32 and 64-bit versions. That is what I was originally pointing out. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 10:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Sorry Bobby, but what do you mean you aren't using Access? Isn't that what we're talking about? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 6:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 16 16:29:06 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 14:29:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A523A43088A40789ADAD01D2D9A367F@HAL9005> Yeah, tab forms and subforms sometimes don't resize right with the ADH code - although I've never found anything better. On tab and subform forms I'll set up variables for the size and location - sub-forms only seem to need height adjusted: Dim sglSubFormHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesTop As Single Dim sglTabPagesWidth As Single Dim sglTabPagesLeft As Single I modified the resizing code to put the x and y resizing factors into global variable gsglFactorX and gsglFactorY. Then in the open event where I'm doing the resizing I save the values of those properties, resize, and then force the sizes of those objects : sglSubFormHeight = Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height sglTabPagesHeight = Me.TabPages.Height sglTabPagesTop = Me.TabPages.Top sglTabPagesWidth = Me.TabPages.Width sglTabPagesLeft = Me.TabPages.Left Application.Echo False Call adhScaleForm(Me, 800, 600, 96, 96, rctOriginal) If DLookup("TurnScreenResizingOff", "tblPreferences") = False Then Me.TabPages.Height = sglTabPagesHeight * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Top = sglTabPagesTop * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Width = sglTabPagesWidth * gsglFactorX Me.TabPages.Left = sglTabPagesLeft * gsglFactorX Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height = sglSubFormHeight * gsglFactorY End If HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 1:31 PM To: Access Developers Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 16 16:35:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <5A523A43088A40789ADAD01D2D9A367F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <3115EEDDD3ED48DDAC8AF91549FFD75A@Dell> Thanks -- that's a lot of help. I'll give it a try. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Yeah, tab forms and subforms sometimes don't resize right with the ADH code - although I've never found anything better. On tab and subform forms I'll set up variables for the size and location - sub-forms only seem to need height adjusted: Dim sglSubFormHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesTop As Single Dim sglTabPagesWidth As Single Dim sglTabPagesLeft As Single I modified the resizing code to put the x and y resizing factors into global variable gsglFactorX and gsglFactorY. Then in the open event where I'm doing the resizing I save the values of those properties, resize, and then force the sizes of those objects : sglSubFormHeight = Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height sglTabPagesHeight = Me.TabPages.Height sglTabPagesTop = Me.TabPages.Top sglTabPagesWidth = Me.TabPages.Width sglTabPagesLeft = Me.TabPages.Left Application.Echo False Call adhScaleForm(Me, 800, 600, 96, 96, rctOriginal) If DLookup("TurnScreenResizingOff", "tblPreferences") = False Then Me.TabPages.Height = sglTabPagesHeight * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Top = sglTabPagesTop * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Width = sglTabPagesWidth * gsglFactorX Me.TabPages.Left = sglTabPagesLeft * gsglFactorX Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height = sglSubFormHeight * gsglFactorY End If HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 1:31 PM To: Access Developers Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at airtelmail.in Mon May 16 23:29:53 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 09:59:53 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: Message-ID: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From cjlabs at att.net Tue May 17 11:01:26 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:01:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> Message-ID: <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 17 14:56:09 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:56:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> References: , <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede>, <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. The query that I wish to union appears: SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: cjlabs at att.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:01:26 -0500 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. > > Now to change all the rest of them. . . . > > > Thanks, > Carolyn Johnson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: A.D. Tejpal > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > > Carolyn, > > Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: > http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 > > Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). > > Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: > (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. > (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. > (c) Combo box and list box. > (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. > (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. > (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. > > Note: > ------ > (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. > (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. > > Best wishes, > A.D. Tejpal > ------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: cjlabs > To: Access Developers > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 > Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > > I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. > > I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. > > If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). > > I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. > > Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? > > TIA > Carolyn Johnson > St Louis MO > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 15:13:58 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:13:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> Message-ID: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue May 17 15:34:28 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:34:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com><002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <04AAC98C730C47279120E563898AB16C@HAL9005> What kind of control? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 16:11:18 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:11:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <000901cc14d6$f71076f0$e53164d0$@cox.net> How about the "On Dbl Click" event for the control? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 17 16:18:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:18:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <4DD2E62D.3000402@colbyconsulting.com> Double click on the control? ;) Or call the doubleclick function from code in the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 4:13 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 16:37:10 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:37:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to make the subroutine public. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 17 16:40:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:40:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue May 17 16:56:59 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 07:56:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <000001cc14dd$59c28530$0d478f90$@activebilling.com.au> Hi Darrell Assume you have a text box called txtLastName on a form called frmEmployees. Assume on that form is a routine that displays a message box on the double click of that field. Private Sub txtLastName_DblClick (Cancel As Integer) MsgBox "Hi this is the Last Name text box from the employees form", vbInformation, "Last Name DoubleClick" End Sub Ok - Cool - Assume you have a command button (called Command2) on the same form and you want the double click of the LastName text box to 'fire' when the button is clicked, do something like this... Private Sub Command2_Click() txtLastName_DblClick -1 End Sub (the minus one bit above is to satisfy the "Cancel as integer" param on the DoubleClick routine) Now...if you want the double click routine on the Lastname field to be 'fired' from a button called 'Command1' on another form you could do this... First change the status of the Private Sub routine on the LastName double click into a Public Sub - like this... Public Sub txtLastName_DblClick(Cancel As Integer) ''<--note it is public sub now MsgBox "Hi this is the Last Name text box", vbInformation, "Last Name DoubleClick" End Sub Private Sub Command1_Click()''<---not this should be on a totally different form Forms("frmEmployeesform1").txtLastName_DblClick -1 End Sub There probably are better ways of handling this and the gurus here will suggest them. This has worked for me a zillion times. Now, having said all that if the information in this control that is to be double clicked is being 'fired' or called from another place you may want to give somethought to moving the doubleclick code/logic into a more public place, like in a module etc. Hope it makes sense - See ya Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 6:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 17:24:08 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 15:24:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001a01cc14e1$23d8a720$6b89f560$@cox.net> Maybe my terminology is incorrect. I was referring to the subroutine created for the event, you can make that public, or at least remove the Private designation. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger > from code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in > the event stub and then call it from where ever you want by the > subroutine name, e.g., sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from > outside the form you need to make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 19:55:07 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:55:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <00f301cc14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> Thanx to everybody for replying. I'm just responding to the most recent post. I have an Attachment control on a form. The control is named Asset_Attachment. I want the built-in Attachment dialog box to spring open as soon as I open the form. The only way I know to make that dialog appear is by dbl-clicking Asset_Attachment. I tried inserting Asset_Attachment_DblClick (-1) in the Form_Open event but I got a "Sub or function not defined" compile error. Is there a way to send those mouse-clicks to the control? Thx, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 20:16:17 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 18:16:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00f301cc14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> <00f301c c14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> Message-ID: <00f701cc14f9$30c01a50$92404ef0$@com> Doh! I figured it out...didn't need to double-click. All I needed to do was send a space key... DoCmd.GoToControl "Asset_Attachment" SendKeys " " Thanx! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 5:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Thanx to everybody for replying. I'm just responding to the most recent post. I have an Attachment control on a form. The control is named Asset_Attachment. I want the built-in Attachment dialog box to spring open as soon as I open the form. The only way I know to make that dialog appear is by dbl-clicking Asset_Attachment. I tried inserting Asset_Attachment_DblClick (-1) in the Form_Open event but I got a "Sub or function not defined" compile error. Is there a way to send those mouse-clicks to the control? Thx, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at airtelmail.in Tue May 17 23:08:53 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:38:53 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: You are most welcome Carolyn! Nice of you to provide the confirmation regarding successful outcome. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 21:31 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 17 23:48:08 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:48:08 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. Message-ID: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Everyone, If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but I am not that hopeful :-/ If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. cheers Darryl. _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 18 00:14:51 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 15:14:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The triumph of form over function yet again. MS would much rather have it "look pretty" than "be practical". As far as I know, you're stuck with it. -- Stuart On 18 May 2011 at 14:48, Darryl Collins wrote: > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde > world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane > and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details > were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and > useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several > lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor > I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make > the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the > nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make > a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched > up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - > STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB > objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. > Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such > a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they > want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the > instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but > I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 > levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > ______________________________________________________________________ From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 18 00:48:35 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 22:48:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Darryl, Your mantra should be, "Designed for end users who don't understand what they need." Keep repeating it until numbness sets in! Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > Hi Everyone, > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. ?In ye olde world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane and this was fine. ?The DB object icons were small and the details were displayed on a single line per object. ?Nice and tight and useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. ?I figure that streeeeeeching the nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - STUPID! ?I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. ?Sheesh. ?Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? ?I find it such a backward step in productivity. ?Sure let folks dock the pane if they want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) ?urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed May 18 00:49:19 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 15:49:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com>, <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105180551.p4I5pBev004265@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha, yeah, it seems like it. "form over function" for sure. I used to be able to sort by mod date with a single click. Now it is a lot of stuffing around with the mouse and scrolling thru pages of db objects because you can only view a handful at a time. What a right PITA. Productivity just went 'plurk!' ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan [stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. The triumph of form over function yet again. MS would much rather have it "look pretty" than "be practical". As far as I know, you're stuck with it. -- Stuart On 18 May 2011 at 14:48, Darryl Collins wrote: > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde > world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane > and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details > were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and > useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several > lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor > I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make > the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the > nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make > a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched > up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - > STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB > objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. > Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such > a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they > want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the > instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but > I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 > levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > ______________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 18 02:39:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:39:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names Message-ID: Hi J?rgen Weird. Try adding DISTINCT: SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. /gustav >>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. The query that I wish to union appears: SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From cjlabs at att.net Wed May 18 06:59:41 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 06:59:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede><854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: In case it's of interest, I have/had 2 forms with issues. I have a option group with a label attached to the frame -- that label's font size is too large and it's location is too far right (to the right instead of left of the frame). I deleted the label and created a new one that was not associated with the frame, and it's OK. I have another form with 2 subforms, that are both datasheet view. The 2 subforms' font size is increased, but the row height is not, so you cannot read the text. You can, however, manually increase the row height. The other 35 forms in the database that use resizing work great. I disabled the double click code. I have a main form switchboard (that actually has several levels of hierarchy) and double-clicking the screen activates the button handler. Thanks again, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue You are most welcome Carolyn! Nice of you to provide the confirmation regarding successful outcome. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 21:31 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 07:13:37 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 08:13:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 07:45:49 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 08:45:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Shortcut for VBE Message-ID: Does anyone know of a shortcut key for displaying the Object or Procedure controls' dropdown lists? Thanks! Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 08:35:52 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:35:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Nevermind (Fw: Shortcut for VBE) Message-ID: <7996DAF5FF0B41CF846423D57014AAD6@SusanHarkins> It's Ctrl+F2 Does anyone know of a shortcut key for displaying the Object or Procedure controls' dropdown lists? Thanks! Susan H. From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed May 18 08:58:51 2011 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:58:51 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT position available Message-ID: Hello All, A former co-worker reached out to me about a position they were trying to fill. Since I am happy in my current position (and don't want to go to Chicago) I thought I would pass this on to the list in case anyone is looking. Thanks, Mark A. Matte. P.S...if interested you can contact Tina (Tina.Biancalana at searshc.com) \******************************** Job Title Sr. Analyst, IM Systems & Support ? Reporting Business Corporate - Supply Chain State or Province/City IL Hoffman Estates Company Sears Holdings Management Corp Years Experience: 2 - 5 Years Experience Preferred Minimum Education: BS required. CS or MIS degree desired. Travel Requirements: None Requisition ID 94304BR To view full job description, please search Careerbuilder.com for requisition ID 94304BR or Sears Holdings. Minimum requirements: Software: SQL Server, Teradata, Access, Excel Programming Languages: SQL, VB From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 18 11:16:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, that could be the problem. Charlotte Foust On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi J?rgen > > Weird. > Try adding DISTINCT: > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. ?For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. ?Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. ?Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. ?Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. ?The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > I have 31 alias names in the table. ?28 of them work. ?3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > If I add a column to the select statement: ?[LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. ?If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. ?We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. ?The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. ?I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. ?There are no names with apostrophes. ?Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. ?It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. ?If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed May 18 13:07:02 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:07:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed May 18 13:29:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 11:29:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limitedbudget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com><003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <407B5AC805FE4FE6922DE5953EDC7991@HAL9005> Brad: Check out www.e-z-mrp.com. Might be exactly what you need. It's in Access 2003. If interested, call me and we'll talk. Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limitedbudget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed May 18 13:34:28 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:34:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 18 15:13:26 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the last name field to the query as an additional column displays the last name. There are records in the main table associated with the alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or the full proper name). SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID yeilds 12 Brad Card Card Brad 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim 2344 Rick Mackie Rick 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name first mode. Gustav: Distinct did not work. I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where none should be required. I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: ?1=1 ?2=2 ?3=3 ?4=4 One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to determine whether they continue to fail. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, > that could be the problem. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi J?rgen > > > > Weird. > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed May 18 18:57:33 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:57:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From adtp at airtelmail.in Wed May 18 22:34:35 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:04:35 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede><854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: <36E8B29C8A0D42B5BA4560C6BD73D2F9@personal4a8ede> Carolyn, Existing version of form resize class has certain arbitrary upper & lower limits on datasheet row height. If you are in a position to put together a skeleton db containing the two problem forms along with their associated objects, I could look into it further - so as to ascertain whether further fine tuning of the class is called for. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 17:29 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue In case it's of interest, I have/had 2 forms with issues. I have a option group with a label attached to the frame -- that label's font size is too large and it's location is too far right (to the right instead of left of the frame). I deleted the label and created a new one that was not associated with the frame, and it's OK. I have another form with 2 subforms, that are both datasheet view. The 2 subforms' font size is increased, but the row height is not, so you cannot read the text. You can, however, manually increase the row height. The other 35 forms in the database that use resizing work great. I disabled the double click code. I have a main form switchboard (that actually has several levels of hierarchy) and double-clicking the screen activates the button handler. Thanks again, Carolyn From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed May 18 23:34:10 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 21:34:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu May 19 06:51:41 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 06:51:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> Message-ID: <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu May 19 07:50:26 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 05:50:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Ah, programmer's full employment act of 2011. Nice. :) I'm at the other end - companies in the startup to $20,000,000 range - what I call the bottom 90% of the market - or independent subsidiaries or internal projects of larger companies. Intel uses E-Z-MRP at their facility up in Oregon for example. And Philips Medical has a captive supplier in China using it as part of their supply chain management system. Just fishing for some possibilities of working together. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu May 19 08:00:16 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 08:00:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> Try taking a look at www.enterpriseminnesota.org. They are a consulting group focused on helping small MN Manufacturing companies grow, and at least some of their clients are in your size range. I subscribe to their free magazine sort of with the intent to find potential customers, but the companies that are discussed are all too small to be interested in me. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Ah, programmer's full employment act of 2011. Nice. :) I'm at the other end - companies in the startup to $20,000,000 range - what I call the bottom 90% of the market - or independent subsidiaries or internal projects of larger companies. Intel uses E-Z-MRP at their facility up in Oregon for example. And Philips Medical has a captive supplier in China using it as part of their supply chain management system. Just fishing for some possibilities of working together. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 19 10:57:30 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 11:57:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@! comcast.net> <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 19 12:03:22 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:03:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> References: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000801cc1646$a987e8c0$fc97ba40$@com> Hi Darryl, I feel your pain about the Nav window. It sux! Every time I open up a database I have to reset it to show last-to-first Mod Date sequence. Why can't it remember something as basic as that? Is there room on your soapbox for one more? Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu May 19 11:54:52 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:54:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names - Solved In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: When in table view, I tabbed into the FirstNameAlias field and replaced Rob with Rob and found that the query now included the last name as expected. I just about broke my head on this one. It turns out that the textbox where alias names are entered has the property for 'Enter Key Behavior' set to 'New Line in Field'. In the case of the three names that did not display, the data had been entered in two rows. Thus Rob had actually been entered as 'Rob' & vbcrlf & 'Rob'. Apparently this forced the query to display the last name field in the 2nd row and the query defalut display height is one row only. Changing the row height in the query view showed the last names in the 2nd row. Trim$ is used for the not in list procedure by which names are entered in the tables but allowing the enter key to add new rows in the alias sub form messed things up when users entered text both before and after an enter key. Needless to say I changed the Enter Key Behavior of the Alias Name text box and checked the rest of the data. All I needed to do is change the row height in the alias table view in order to see the problem records and I'm satisfied that everything now works as it should. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: jwelz at hotmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the last name field to the query as an additional column displays the last name. There are records in the main table associated with the alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or the full proper name). > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > yeilds > > 12 Brad Card Card Brad > 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim > 2344 Rick Mackie Rick > 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob > 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron > 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch > 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob > > I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. > > What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name first mode. > > Gustav: Distinct did not work. > > I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where none should be required. > > I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. > > It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: > > ?1=1 > ?2=2 > ?3=3 > ?4=4 > > One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. > > At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to determine whether they continue to fail. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, > > that could be the problem. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi J?rgen > > > > > > Weird. > > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > > > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > > > Ciao > > > J?rgen Welz > > > Edmonton, Alberta > > > jwelz at hotmail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 19 15:56:59 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 06:56:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names - Solved In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DD5841B.12075.164C5AC1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've been bitten by a CRLF at the start of a text field a few times over the years as well. It's a b*tch, ain't it :-) -- Stuart On 19 May 2011 at 10:54, Jurgen Welz wrote: > > When in table view, I tabbed into the FirstNameAlias field and > replaced Rob with Rob and found that the query now included the last > name as expected. I just about broke my head on this one. > > It turns out that the textbox where alias names are entered has the > property for 'Enter Key Behavior' set to 'New Line in Field'. In the > case of the three names that did not display, the data had been > entered in two rows. Thus Rob had actually been entered as 'Rob' & > vbcrlf & 'Rob'. Apparently this forced the query to display the last > name field in the 2nd row and the query defalut display height is one > row only. Changing the row height in the query view showed the last > names in the 2nd row. Trim$ is used for the not in list procedure by > which names are entered in the tables but allowing the enter key to > add new rows in the alias sub form messed things up when users entered > text both before and after an enter key. > > Needless to say I changed the Enter Key Behavior of the Alias Name > text box and checked the rest of the data. All I needed to do is > change the row height in the alias table view in order to see the > problem records and I'm satisfied that everything now works as it > should. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > From: jwelz at hotmail.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > > > Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the > > concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the > > last name field to the query as an additional column displays the > > last name. There are records in the main table associated with the > > alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. > > The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated > > query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The > > oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display > > the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the > > search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select > > tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & > > tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is > > missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the > > first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where > > the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the > > concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd > > is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to > > appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a > > length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the > > contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or > > the full proper name). > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' > > & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & > > [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 FROM tblEmployeeAlias > > INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = > > tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > yeilds > > > > 12 Brad Card Card Brad > > 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim > > 2344 Rick Mackie Rick > > 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob > > 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron > > 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch > > 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob > > > > I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison > > operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first > > or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display > > the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. > > > > What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first > > and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In > > the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. > > These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee > > to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display > > regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show > > them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first > > name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently > > work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma > > with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color > > to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name > > first mode. > > > > Gustav: Distinct did not work. > > > > I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and > > storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would > > simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would > > require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits > > to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names > > and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so > > I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where > > none should be required. > > > > I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' > > tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L > > = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger > > = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent > > behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. > > > > It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate > > window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: > > > > ?1=1 > > ?2=2 > > ?3=3 > > ?4=4 > > > > One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC > > connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. > > > > At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the > > data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try > > adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to > > determine whether they continue to fail. > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > > > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If > > > not, that could be the problem. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock > > > wrote: > > > > Hi J?rgen > > > > > > > > Weird. > > > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record > > > > by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be > > > > some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose > > > > payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look > > > > up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or > > > > Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo > > > > record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and > > > > Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form > > > > on the main form record. > > > > > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary > > > > key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to > > > > the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup > > > > combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & > > > > LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & > > > > ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or > > > > both records as well as regional filters. > > > > > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & > > > > ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias > > > > INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = > > > > tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in > > > > that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & > > > > [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. > > > > If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it > > > > appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null > > > > data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias > > > > names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are > > > > Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the > > > > concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record > > > > last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display > > > > concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled > > > > why some work and some don't. There are no names with > > > > apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual > > > > name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no > > > > difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the > > > > order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > > > > > Ciao > > > > J?rgen Welz > > > > Edmonton, Alberta > > > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Thu May 19 16:54:12 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:54:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> References: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <010c01cc166f$4b2245e0$e166d1a0$@activebilling.com.au> It's always time for coffee - with A2010 It's time for an IV Re the new layouts (Ribbons etc.) I watched all the disparaging comments from the world on the next forums etc. (and here too). Now I have office 2010 (outlook included) OMG What a PITA DD -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2011 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rlister at actuarial-files.com Thu May 19 18:48:45 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:48:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@! comcast.net> <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <000d01cc167f$4ca65a90$e5f30fb0$@com> Hello John, I have this code snippet, may be it helps: Function AgeInMonths(End As Date, Begin As Date) As Integer '************************************************************ '************************************************************ '** Name of Procedure: AgeInMonths ** '** Date: January 2011 ** '** Called from: various in modReservas, modReservasInv ** '** Calls: none ** '** Task: Calculates the age of a person in month ** '** Input: End, Begin (Both Date) ** '** Output: Integer ** '** Example: AgeInMonths(#30/4/2011#,#25/11/2009#) = 17 ** '************************************************************ '************************************************************ Dim xM As Integer If Day(End) < Day(Begin) Then xM = (Year(End) - Year(Begin)) * 12 + _ Month(End) - Month(Begin) - 1 Else xM = (Year(End) - Year(Begin)) * 12 + _ Month(End) - Month(Begin) End If AgeInMonths = xM End Function Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com -----Mensaje original----- De: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] En nombre de John Clark Enviado el: Jueves, 19 de Mayo de 2011 11:58 a.m. Para: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Asunto: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3647 - Release Date: 05/19/11 From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu May 19 23:15:50 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 14:15:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... Message-ID: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi everyone, A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following error "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall it" Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this problem. Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. bah. annoying. cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Fri May 20 00:03:00 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 22:03:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <3CDA3DC698A44A85A6DF9BD21E3D6632@BPCS> Darryl, I had a similar problem, not sure if it applies to but in my case it had to do trying to open a JPG. The cure was to right click on any jpg and and make sure that paint was the default. My program used paint to display photo's. Like you it only affected those PC's that had the default JPG set to something else or perhaps not set at all. The same thing might apply if you are using something other than photos like say notepad for .txt etc. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Collins" Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 9:15 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi everyone, A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following error "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall it" Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this problem. Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. bah. annoying. cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 20 01:15:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:15:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DD6071C.19653.184C1D20@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It often occurs when you have a OLE object field in your database with various images, documents etc embedded and the program that is set as the default for that type of file is not the same as the one used on the PC that saved the object. -- Stuart On 20 May 2011 at 14:15, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi everyone, > > A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following > error > > "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall > it" > > Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none > of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known > issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb > / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This > sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, > but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of > calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. > > On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this > problem. > > Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking > running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. > > bah. annoying. > > cheers > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Fri May 20 01:33:00 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:33:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <4DD6071C.19653.184C1D20@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105200633.p4K6X8sb028504@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Ok guys, Going to try that out with this user and see what happens. Will post back with results. I have repointed the single graphic used to point at MS Paint and reinstalled it. thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, 20 May 2011 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... It often occurs when you have a OLE object field in your database with various images, documents etc embedded and the program that is set as the default for that type of file is not the same as the one used on the PC that saved the object. -- Stuart On 20 May 2011 at 14:15, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi everyone, > > A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following > error > > "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall > it" > > Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none > of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known > issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb > / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This > sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, > but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of > calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. > > On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this > problem. > > Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking > running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. > > bah. annoying. > > cheers > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri May 20 06:47:42 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:47:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of Message-ID: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Hi, Working on a database application where the client wants what she refers to as primary and secondary drop-downs. The description is of a drop-list wherein two of the items have secondary drop-lists. This is to be able to select specific reports to print. So, one report, called "Post It" would have a second selection criterion of which counselor the report is for. To me, this sounds like a cascading menu - commonly found in the Microsoft Office Suite programs - but I don't know how to construct that in Access. Perhaps the Treeview approach is a good option. I'd love a little feedback on how to meet this client's need. Thanks, Tina From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 20 08:27:08 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 15:27:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! Message-ID: Hi John Here is how: Public Function Months( _ ByVal datDate1 As Date, _ ByVal datDate2 As Date, _ Optional ByVal booLinear As Boolean) _ As Integer ' Returns the difference in full months between datDate1 and datDate2. ' ' Calculates correctly for: ' negative differences ' leap years ' dates of 29. February ' date/time values with embedded time values ' negative date/time values (prior to 1899-12-29) ' ' Optionally returns negative counts rounded down to provide a ' linear sequence of month counts. ' For a given datDate1, if datDate2 is decreased stepwise one month from ' returning a positive count to returning a negative count, one or two ' occurrences of count zero will be returned. ' If booLinear is False, the sequence will be: ' 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, -1, -2 ' If booLinear is True, the sequence will be: ' 3, 2, 1, 0, -1, -2, -3 ' ' If booLinear is False, reversing datDate1 and datDate2 will return ' results of same absolute Value, only the sign will change. ' This behaviour mimics that of Fix(). ' If booLinear is True, reversing datDate1 and datDate2 will return ' results where the negative count is offset by -1. ' This behaviour mimics that of Int(). ' DateAdd() is used for check for month end of February as it correctly ' returns Feb. 28. when adding a count of months to dates of Feb. 29. ' when the resulting year is a common year. ' ' 2010-03-30. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim intDiff As Integer Dim intSign As Integer Dim intMonths As Integer ' Find difference in calendar months. intMonths = DateDiff("m", datDate1, datDate2) ' For positive resp. negative intervals, check if the second date ' falls before, on, or after the crossing date for a 1 month period ' while at the same time correcting for February 29. of leap years. If DateDiff("d", datDate1, datDate2) > 0 Then intSign = Sgn(DateDiff("d", DateAdd("m", intMonths, datDate1), datDate2)) intDiff = Abs(intSign < 0) Else intSign = Sgn(DateDiff("d", DateAdd("m", -intMonths, datDate2), datDate1)) If intSign <> 0 Then ' Offset negative count of months to continuous sequence if requested. intDiff = Abs(booLinear) End If intDiff = intDiff - Abs(intSign < 0) End If ' Return count of months as count of full 1 month periods. Months = intMonths - intDiff End Function To have the years and months count: intMonths = Months([DOB], Date) strYearsMonths = CStr(intMonths \ 12) & " year(s), " & CStr(intMonths Mod 12) & " month(s)" /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 19-05-2011 17:57 >>> I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 20 09:05:50 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:05:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of In-Reply-To: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> References: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Message-ID: The common approach to this is related combo or listboxes; however, in your case the lists seem unrelated (unless of course only certain users have access to certain reports, but in that case you're missing a table and the lists are in the wrong order). I'd go with a simple dialog box containing two controls, one for reports and one for users. HTH, A. From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri May 20 10:19:15 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:19:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Message-ID: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 10:25:29 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:25:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I've sent out over 300 separate emails that were created by Access in a batch and put in my Outbox, then sent manually by me. Customized emails with the same subject line. No problems. The only limits I've dealt with are imposed by email providers, who try to prevent spammers by limiting you to 50 emails in a 2 hour window and 200 a day. AT&T does that. Charter.net does that. It's not Access or Outlook. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 20 10:35:00 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:35:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <7D67105591864E8E9964755F9763F2CB@XPS> Yes, there are no real limits as far as the client is concerned. It's the ISP and its spam detection limits that are at work when you send e-mail and each is different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question I've sent out over 300 separate emails that were created by Access in a batch and put in my Outbox, then sent manually by me. Customized emails with the same subject line. No problems. The only limits I've dealt with are imposed by email providers, who try to prevent spammers by limiting you to 50 emails in a 2 hour window and 200 a day. AT&T does that. Charter.net does that. It's not Access or Outlook. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 11:09:58 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:09:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> I've run into this problem with a program I wrote to contact people for events, etc. Outlook does not have a limit but Exchange can, ISPs can and filtering devices/add-ins can (like SPAM filters). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri May 20 11:38:05 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:38:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. > I've run into this problem with a program I wrote to contact people for > events, etc. Outlook does not have a limit but Exchange can, ISPs can and > filtering devices/add-ins can (like SPAM filters). From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 20 11:50:44 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:50:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD663A40200006B0001FAA2@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> A huge THANK YOU Gustav!!! I was drawing a blank...I just can't concentrate these days. It could be because I do net admin one day, work on switches the next, then get into the VOIP stuff, then try to learn SharePoint (I hate SharePoint so far...well, WSS anyhow)...it is just hard for me to turn programming on and off like that. But, I appreciate your help very much...you saved me a bunch. John W Clark >>> "Gustav Brock" 5/20/2011 9:27 A >>> Hi John Here is how: From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 12:57:37 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:57:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 20 13:10:51 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:10:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I've been automating task items set with people to remind with due date and reminder times and Outlook barfs some message about allowing macros to access your address book create items for 1, 2, 5 or 10 minutes. Thats a very real limit by time. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: ssharkins at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:19:15 -0400 > Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question > > 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? > > ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? > > > > Susan H. From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 20 15:44:30 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:44:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of In-Reply-To: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> References: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Message-ID: Tina, I just saw this now. I don't know if you've solved the issue, but there are excellent free, video tutorials on cascading combos here. http://www.datapigtechnologies.com/flashfiles/combobox1.html http://www.datapigtechnologies.com/flashfiles/combobox2.html Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of Hi, Working on a database application where the client wants what she refers to as primary and secondary drop-downs. The description is of a drop-list wherein two of the items have secondary drop-lists. This is to be able to select specific reports to print. So, one report, called "Post It" would have a second selection criterion of which counselor the report is for. To me, this sounds like a cascading menu - commonly found in the Microsoft Office Suite programs - but I don't know how to construct that in Access. Perhaps the Treeview approach is a good option. I'd love a little feedback on how to meet this client's need. Thanks, Tina -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri May 20 15:49:58 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:49:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 20 16:07:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:07:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DD6D818.1495.1B7C80B3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've never come across a hard limit in a mail client. The most likely cause of an apparent freeze would be long delays in the time it takes for the SMTP server to deal with a large list of addresses and respond to the email client. The client could appear to hang while waiting for the resoponse. The primary limit will generally be the rules implemented by the SMTP server you are sending through. Often ISPs set their public servers' limits at 50 - 100. Exchange Server has a parameter msExchSmtpMaxRecipients which can be set by administrators. MS in their wisdom set it by default to 64,000 ! On 20 May 2011 at 11:19, Susan Harkins wrote: > 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can > be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read > different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be > done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook > will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it > differ? > > ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit > at all? > > > > Susan H. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 17:54:35 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:54:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 18:05:36 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:05:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: The ISPs blacklist others from time to teim. AOL has blacklisted AT&T several times because they were getting so much spam from AT&T accounts. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bartow To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 18:25:27 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:25:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <00ba01cc1745$33d57070$9b805150$@winhaven.net> AT&T drives me nuts. They have you jump through all kinds of verifications routines and extra security, etc. but they haven't affected the SPAM at all. Sometimes I think they just have a sadistic CIO who likes to punish his clients. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 6:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question The ISPs blacklist others from time to teim. AOL has blacklisted AT&T several times because they were getting so much spam from AT&T accounts. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bartow To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri May 20 19:06:12 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:06:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: It happened to pundit last year - Cox blacklisted her so she couldn't send any mail to a Cox account. It was hell to straighten out - our ISP TW said it was Cox and of course you know what Cox said. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 19:29:08 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 19:29:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] accelerator keys not working in Access2010 Message-ID: I'm trying to fix all the stuff that worked in my database in 2000, 2002 and 2003 but no longer work in 2010. I have a lot of accelerator keys on my forms (Alt + ) which no longer work in Access 2010. Does anyone know if there is a way to make them functional? TIA, Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 20 21:51:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 22:51:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM Message-ID: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible a workstation running out on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM running but it was part of my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able to access it remote desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is using stored info and assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can from my internal network. I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel through the firewall. Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 07:41:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 08:41:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Message-ID: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat May 21 08:31:44 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 06:31:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John: I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 Set dbs = CurrentDb On Error GoTo Change_Err dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue ChangeProperty = True Change_Bye: Exit Function Change_Err: If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ varPropType, varPropValue) dbs.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else ' Unknown error. ChangeProperty = False Resume Change_Bye End If End Function I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than through my own menus: ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde") <> 0 Then Me.MenuBar = "=1" Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open End If Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 21 09:52:55 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 16:52:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Message-ID: Hi John Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): >>>1999-05-18 08:15 Subject: My FramwWIZ 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties of the current database or any database (depending on button pushed). The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all the built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) and into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen because it really should be a check box) to allow you to select the state you wish to set the property to (set or reset). There is then a button that you can press to save any changes to the properties back into the database. These properties allow the developer to "secure" the operation of the database to prevent fiddling by the user. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41 >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 11:49:30 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:49:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> Gustav, > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): LOL. Yea I went out and found that. This is the basis (as is the code from the other posters) but I really want an application that sets the properties and then copies from / to. My application allows you to open an Access FE, navigate to another Access FE and set the properties there. It is an entire user interface around this code. I am going to be modifying my app (designed in 10/2001 BTW) to add this additional functionality. I am going to need it table driven so that I can select a group of files, set the properties and copy all of the files to production. As you know I also have two libraries to secure. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 10:52 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): > >>>> 1999-05-18 08:15 > Subject: My FramwWIZ > > 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) > is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties of the > current database or any database (depending on button pushed). > > The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all the > built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, > StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, > AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. > > These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) and > into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen because it > really should be a check box) to allow you to select the state you wish to > set the property to (set or reset). There is then a button that you can > press to save any changes to the properties back into the database. These > properties allow the developer to "secure" the operation of the database to > prevent fiddling by the user. > > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41>>> > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want > to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as > Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat May 21 12:19:54 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:19:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000c01cc17db$4d8a7ce0$e89f76a0$@comcast.net> John, You could try this technique - you can work another FE from your FE. However, the properties you are changing don't take effect until the next time the mdb file opened. So a test is needed to see if this actually works the next time the other FE is opened. '-- Set Destination MDB as the CurrentDatabase Set MappDestination = New Access.Application MappDestination.OpenCurrentDatabase MstgDestinationFilePath DoEvents Post back your results! I use these properties also for each of my customer's systems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 11:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Gustav, > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): LOL. Yea I went out and found that. This is the basis (as is the code from the other posters) but I really want an application that sets the properties and then copies from / to. My application allows you to open an Access FE, navigate to another Access FE and set the properties there. It is an entire user interface around this code. I am going to be modifying my app (designed in 10/2001 BTW) to add this additional functionality. I am going to need it table driven so that I can select a group of files, set the properties and copy all of the files to production. As you know I also have two libraries to secure. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 10:52 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): > >>>> 1999-05-18 08:15 > Subject: My FramwWIZ > > 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) > is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties > of the current database or any database (depending on button pushed). > > The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all > the built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, > StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, > AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. > > These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) > and into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen > because it really should be a check box) to allow you to select the > state you wish to set the property to (set or reset). There is then a > button that you can press to save any changes to the properties back > into the database. These properties allow the developer to "secure" > the operation of the database to prevent fiddling by the user. > > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41>>> > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jedi at charm.net Sat May 21 12:33:50 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM In-Reply-To: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4373.24.35.19.37.1305999230.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John, with your current setup I think it will be difficult to be "isolated" as you will always be part of 192.168.1.x. Since you are using a VM then the VM is part of the phsical machine by way of a virtual network. One way (maybe) to partially isolate your VM is to sub-net but that would mean sub-netting your physical machine also as your VM is using a virtual network. Another way (maybe) is to get another router and run it parallel to your current router and then connect your physical machine. Make sure you configure the second router router as 192.168.2.x. Mike > Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible > a workstation running out > on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM > running but it was part of > my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able > to access it remote > desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is > using stored info and > assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can > from my internal network. > > I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range > (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) > but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel > through the firewall. > > Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dc8 at btinternet.com Sat May 21 14:03:59 2011 From: dc8 at btinternet.com (Chris Swann) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 20:03:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Error 1004 In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net><00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4DD80C9F.4040509@btinternet.com> Hi all, I have some code that runs fine on my work PC running XP SP3 with Office 2007. Wanted to do a bit of work on my home PC which is Vista with Office 2003 and 2007 installed. I thought this might be the problem. So, I thought I'd try on my laptop which only has Office 2003 installed but got the same error. It seems to be failing at this point (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<) and I wondered if anybody might be able to shed any light on what might be causing the problem. The code completes the first two lines - correctly adds the data to the first two sheets and then fails part of code follows Do Line Input #1, theline a = Split(theline, "|") rowcount = rowcount + 1 For i = LBound(a) To UBound(a) Select Case i Case Is <= 249 sht1(rowcount, i + 1) = a(i) Case 250 To 499 sht2(rowcount, i - 249) = a(i) Case 500 To 749 sht3(rowcount, i - 499) = a(i) End Select Next i Loop While Not EOF(1) Close #1 With xlApp .Sheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht1 .Sheets("Sheet2").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht2 .Sheets("Sheet3").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht3 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< .Sheets("WantedData").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht4 End With Many thanks, Chris Swann From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat May 21 17:47:50 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 18:47:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Guess what? Somehow (without my conscious intervention) Access suddenly decided that the BE should be Read-Only, and that was the source of all my difficulties. So I copied it and renamed the old one to BE_RO and renamed the copy to BE, and lo and behold, everything worked again. I have no idea what I might have inadvertently done to cause Access to mark the BE ReadOnly, but it did, and now that I[ve sorted it out, I'm back in Productive City (i.e. billable time). A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it > doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form > from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. > > A. > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust < > charlotte.foust at gmail.com> wrote: > >> That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes >> sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens >> faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste >> time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the >> other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for >> you. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 21 18:09:23 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:09:23 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <182067B3E3754B08BC3F25B982E53469@abpc> Never underestimate your unconscious intervention... Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 22. maj 2011 00:48 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem Guess what? Somehow (without my conscious intervention) Access suddenly decided that the BE should be Read-Only, and that was the source of all my difficulties. So I copied it and renamed the old one to BE_RO and renamed the copy to BE, and lo and behold, everything worked again. I have no idea what I might have inadvertently done to cause Access to mark the BE ReadOnly, but it did, and now that I[ve sorted it out, I'm back in Productive City (i.e. billable time). A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it > doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form > from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. > > A. > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust < > charlotte.foust at gmail.com> wrote: > >> That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes >> sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens >> faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste >> time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the >> other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for >> you. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 23:52:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 00:52:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the database. I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:00:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 00:12:17 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:12:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> Hi John, Try AllowSpecialKeys notice the ending s I presume you are aware without a password all a bad guy needs to do is open a new mdb and import all stuff, if his show hidden objects is checked? Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full > menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 00:18:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:18:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the database. I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other > than through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a > db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup > "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 00:19:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:19:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you using here? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other > than through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a > db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup > "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:23:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:23:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > As an aside - why do you need this level of security? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I > added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button > to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, > query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show > hidden objects" when my init code runs. > > No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at > any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to > use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the > database. > > I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and > Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see > absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. > > So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the > two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight > physical security on the distributed app. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:28:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:28:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD89F0D.4000305@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, yes I know just how wussy Access security is. Like most locks, the objective is to keep the honest people honest. We all lock our doors when we leave home but it doesn't even slow down a burglar. The vast majority of users haven't a clue about how to get around security. The objective is to prevent them from stumbling into the tables or code etc. where they could do serious damage. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:12 AM, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi John, > > Try AllowSpecialKeys notice the ending s > > I presume you are aware without a password all a bad guy needs to do is open > a new mdb and import all stuff, if his show hidden objects is checked? > > Bill > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than >> through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar >> Set db = CurrentDb >> If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily >> write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you >> selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a >> "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display >> hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full >> menus", >> Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:36:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:36:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD8A0F0.50306@colbyconsulting.com> 2003. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:44:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:44:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 01:17:10 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:17:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com><120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Hi again, I guess I didn't make it clear Rocky's code ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False I believe the correct code is keys not key. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 02:01:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 17:01:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com>, <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The singular version has always worked for me. -- Stuart On 21 May 2011 at 23:17, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are > > you using here? > > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access > > Lockdown > > > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from > > working. Any clues why? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> John: > >> > >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > >> > >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > >> > >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > >> > >> Set dbs = CurrentDb > >> On Error GoTo Change_Err > >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > >> ChangeProperty = True > >> > >> Change_Bye: > >> Exit Function > >> > >> Change_Err: > >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > >> varPropType, varPropValue) > >> dbs.Properties.Append prp > >> Resume Next > >> Else > >> ' Unknown error. > >> ChangeProperty = False > >> Resume Change_Bye > >> End If > >> End Function > >> > >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app > >> other than through my own menus: > >> > >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" > >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On > >> Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > >> End If > >> > >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you > >> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties > >> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > >> > >> HTH > >> > >> Rocky > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers > >> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > >> > >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev > >> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system > >> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well > >> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > >> > >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 22 03:04:18 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 18:04:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net>, Message-ID: <201105220805.p4M851RO012802@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Yes, I have seen this from Thunderbird before, again it was ISP related. Had to point to a different server at the ISP in the end. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin [rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Saturday, 21 May 2011 6:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 08:08:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:08:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com><120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD90AB5.6000606@colbyconsulting.com> Bill, > I guess I didn't make it clear http://support.microsoft.com/kb/826765 Which is fascinating because notice that it specifically says you are ADDING that property to the database. When I executed the following: ?CurrentProject.Properties("AllowBypassKey") in a database where I had not done that, it came back with an error (property not found). After doing this: CurrentProject.Properties.Add "AllowBypassKey", False and *then* doing this: ?CurrentProject.Properties("AllowBypassKey") it came back 0. Which tells me that the AllowBypass property doesn't exist unless you make it. Even then however it doesn't prevent my database from opening bypassed. Hmmm... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 2:17 AM, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you >> using here? >> >> Rocky >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. >> Any clues why? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >>> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 08:18:14 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 06:18:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you securing that? Are you distributing an mde? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > As an aside - why do you need this level of security? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. > I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then > a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every > single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that > cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. > > No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't > get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty > much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them > from outside of the database. > > I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy > and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and > see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. > > So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button > for the two library files and the application file and I have > reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 10:54:13 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:54:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com>, <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, You are correct, I was reading the line above AllowByPassKey, AllowSpecialKeys which has an s in my code. My apologies to John for my vertical dyslexia. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart McLachlan" Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 12:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The singular version has always worked for me. -- Stuart On 21 May 2011 at 23:17, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are > > you using here? > > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access > > Lockdown > > > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from > > working. Any clues why? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> John: > >> > >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > >> > >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > >> > >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > >> > >> Set dbs = CurrentDb > >> On Error GoTo Change_Err > >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > >> ChangeProperty = True > >> > >> Change_Bye: > >> Exit Function > >> > >> Change_Err: > >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > >> varPropType, varPropValue) > >> dbs.Properties.Append prp > >> Resume Next > >> Else > >> ' Unknown error. > >> ChangeProperty = False > >> Resume Change_Bye > >> End If > >> End Function > >> > >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app > >> other than through my own menus: > >> > >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" > >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On > >> Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > >> End If > >> > >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you > >> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties > >> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > >> > >> HTH > >> > >> Rocky > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers > >> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > >> > >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev > >> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system > >> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well > >> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > >> > >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 22 12:33:48 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 10:33:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM In-Reply-To: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9FE9340ED3C34CC9B390266DF0AB834D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: You have to control it at the router end where you can create any number of virtual servers and assign, names, internal addresses, public/private ports, protocols etc. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible a workstation running out on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM running but it was part of my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able to access it remote desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is using stored info and assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can from my internal network. I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel through the firewall. Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 20:29:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 21:29:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown > users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 21:36:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 22:36:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9C849.4060908@colbyconsulting.com> As it happens the BE is probably the most secure of the lot (at least in terms of unauthorized users) for the simple reason that it comes in to my server over a Hamachi VPN. The user has to have Hamachi installed on their machine and have to be joined to the Hamachi network specific to that application. I have to invite the user to join the network and after they apply I have to authorize their joining the network. So yes, "the bad guy" can get at the data tables directly on the machine that I have authorized on the network, but if they move it (a linked FE) to another machine they cannot get in. All for naught if I cannot get the bypass key disabled, assuming that "the bad guy" knows about the bypass key. I still haven't figured out why the bypass key works even when I have a "DisableBypassKey" property set to false on the application - and on my libraries as well for that matter. I have also password protected the code modules, though as we all know these passwords are easily cracked by those of us with knowledge. I will eventually investigate whether I can programmatically compile MDB/A files to MDB, IOW copy to the destination then turn them into an MDE, all from an outside Access application like my C2DbProperties. Every little roadblock makes it that much more difficult to go where they should not go. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown > users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:01:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:01:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the application and it in fact does disable the bypass key. Once executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that property correctly works from my external tool as well. So se por que. jwc Function ap_DisableShift() 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes 'the Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. On Error GoTo errDisableShift Dim db As DAO.Database Dim prop as DAO.Property Const conPropNotFound = 3270 Set db = CurrentDb() 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False 'The function is successful. Exit Function errDisableShift: 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, False) db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End If End Function Function ap_EnableShift() 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed 'if the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. On Error GoTo errEnableShift Dim db as DAO.Database Dim prop as DAO.Property Const conPropNotFound = 3270 Set db = CurrentDb() 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True 'function successful Exit Function errEnableShift: 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, True) db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End If End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you >> securing that? >> >> Are you distributing an mde? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown >> users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >>> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >>> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >>> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >>> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >>> >>> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >>> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >>> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >>> from outside of the database. >>> >>> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >>> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >>> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >>> >>> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >>> for the two library files and the application file and I have >>> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>>> John: >>>> >>>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>>> >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>>> >>>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>>> >>>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>>> ChangeProperty = True >>>> >>>> Change_Bye: >>>> Exit Function >>>> >>>> Change_Err: >>>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>>> Resume Next >>>> Else >>>> ' Unknown error. >>>> ChangeProperty = False >>>> Resume Change_Bye >>>> End If >>>> End Function >>>> >>>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>>> than through my own menus: >>>> >>>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>>> End If >>>> >>>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> Rocky >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>>> >>>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>>> >>>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 22:15:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 20:15:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not try to find a way to change the data? Or in their environment do they need to protect the data from mischief or deliberate alteration of the data outside of the mandated procedures? What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by > unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid >> every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the >> application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you >>> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties >>> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev >>> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system >>> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well >>> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:17:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:17:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> Interestingly... My C2DbProperties application can read the values out and display them in check boxes. AllowBreakIntoCode is not being toggled true false as I toggle its check box, remaining always cleared. I wonder if this is the same issue as I had with AllowByPassKey, needing to be run from inside of the database container before it will work from outside of the container. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:01 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. > > I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the application and it in fact does > disable the bypass key. Once executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that > property correctly works from my external tool as well. > > So se por que. > > jwc > > Function ap_DisableShift() > 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes > 'the Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. > > On Error GoTo errDisableShift > > Dim db As DAO.Database > Dim prop as DAO.Property > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False > > 'The function is successful. > Exit Function > > errDisableShift: > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > 'property if it does not exist. > If Err = conPropNotFound Then > Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ > dbBoolean, False) > db.Properties.Append prop > Resume Next > Else > MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." > Exit Function > End If > > End Function > > Function ap_EnableShift() > 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes > 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed > 'if the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. > > On Error GoTo errEnableShift > > Dim db as DAO.Database > Dim prop as DAO.Property > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True > > 'function successful > Exit Function > > errEnableShift: > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > 'property if it does not exist. > If Err = conPropNotFound Then > Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ > dbBoolean, True) > db.Properties.Append prop > Resume Next > Else > MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." > Exit Function > End If > > End Function From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:40:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:40:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> > If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? If they are directly on the machine with the FE, they have access to the network and thus to the SQL Server data. All they have to be smart enough to do is copy the tables into an unsecured Access container. OTOH if they "walk away" with the FE and try to access the data on the server, they cannot do so because they have to be a member of the Hamachi network for that application which they will not be. > But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not try to find a way to change the data? Asking the client and asking the user are two different questions to two (or many) different people. I was walking through a client's office one day and saw a user in the FE in design view trying to modify a (linked) table. I asked her what she was doing. She had been sent to an access class, and had "decided" that she needed a couple of fields in an existing table so there she was trying to add them. In a linked table! In a FE which was downloaded to her machine every day. Just goes to show many things. 1) The client said users would not do such a thing. 2) The user was busy trying to do just such a thing. 3) The user was so uneducated that she was trying to modify a linked table on a Fe downloaded fresh to her machine daily. 4) She was still trying to do something that the "client" said was not going to happen. The developer's job is to idiot proof the application. The universe's job is to build better idiots. Which has the most experience? Luckily these are not medical applications or the like but still, the machines will exist "out on the internet somewhere". It is appropriate to tighten them up as much as possible. > What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? All of these applications are on user machines wherever the machine may reside. It access data on a SQL server in my office, via a Hamachi VPN HUB AND SPOKE network specific to each application. IOW "environment unknown". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they > be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? > > But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by > the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the > rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not > try to find a way to change the data? > > Or in their environment do they need to protect the data from mischief or > deliberate alteration of the data outside of the mandated procedures? > > What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? > > > R From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 22:43:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:43:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the code has the by-product of disabling "Break Into Code". -- Stuart On 22 May 2011 at 23:17, jwcolby wrote: > Interestingly... My C2DbProperties application can read the values out > and display them in check boxes. AllowBreakIntoCode is not being > toggled true false as I toggle its check box, remaining always > cleared. I wonder if this is the same issue as I had with > AllowByPassKey, needing to be run from inside of the database > container before it will work from outside of the container. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 11:01 PM, jwcolby wrote: > > Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. > > > > I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the > > application and it in fact does disable the bypass key. Once > > executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that > > property correctly works from my external tool as well. > > > > So se por que. > > > > jwc > > > > Function ap_DisableShift() > > 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes 'the > > Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. > > > > On Error GoTo errDisableShift > > > > Dim db As DAO.Database > > Dim prop as DAO.Property > > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > > > 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. > > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False > > > > 'The function is successful. > > Exit Function > > > > errDisableShift: > > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > > 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set > > prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, False) > > db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function > > 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End > > If > > > > End Function > > > > Function ap_EnableShift() > > 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes > > 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed 'if > > the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. > > > > On Error GoTo errEnableShift > > > > Dim db as DAO.Database > > Dim prop as DAO.Property > > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > > > 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. > > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True > > > > 'function successful > > Exit Function > > > > errEnableShift: > > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > > 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set > > prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, True) > > db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function > > 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End > > If > > > > End Function > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:53:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:53:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> Really! Yes it is, and of course it does. ;) Hmm... never considered that. So can the password protection be set programmatically from outside of the container? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the code has the by-product > of disabling "Break Into Code". > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 23:12:44 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:12:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. -- Stuart On 22 May 2011 at 23:53, jwcolby wrote: > Really! Yes it is, and of course it does. ;) Hmm... never > considered that. So can the password protection be set > programmatically from outside of the container? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 11:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the > > code has the by-product of disabling "Break Into Code". > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon May 23 02:34:28 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:34:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> John Just out of interest. You are spending a lot of time and effort locking the data from Access. How do you deal with access from other applications for example Excel etc Martin From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 05:36:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 06:36:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4DDA38AA.4080202@colbyconsulting.com> There isn't any such access. The data is accessed over odbc to SQL Server with a user name / password and hitting a specific IP:port. In order for the user to set up such access they will have to discover the username/pw for the sql server database, the IP:port, and of course be a member of the network if doing so from another computer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 3:34 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > John > > Just out of interest. You are spending a lot of time and effort locking the data from Access. How do you deal with access from other applications for example Excel etc > > Martin > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 07:06:59 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:06:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDA4DE3.9050705@colbyconsulting.com> Changing it is setting it. Do you have the code available? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" > application which does exactly that > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be > writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it > yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the > same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 08:22:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 09:22:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" > application which does exactly that > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be > writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it > yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the > same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 08:49:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 09:49:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? for example... ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password boxers and clicking the button. ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDSysTabControl32) 'Move to Protection tab SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project Properties dialog hWndLockProject = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) ' Lock project for &viewing SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 ' &Password SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword ' &Confirm password SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and > clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, >> >> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" >> application which does exactly that >> >> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. >> >> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be >> writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it >> yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the >> same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 09:53:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:53:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> Using this code I succeeded in opening my two frameworks and setting the module passwords in those, however doing so in the application causes the app to open and the startup code to run, which opens a login form (as it should on opening). It's always something! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 9:49 AM, jwcolby wrote: > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? for example... > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause it to go to the correct tab, > enter data into the password boxers and clicking the button. > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > 'Move to Protection tab > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. > EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) > ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project Properties dialog > hWndLockProject = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > ' Lock project for &viewing > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > ' &Password > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > ' &Confirm password > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. >> >> http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html >> >> It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and >> clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, >>> >>> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" >>> application which does exactly that >>> >>> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. >>> >>> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be >>> writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it >>> yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the >>> same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. >>> >>> From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 23 09:57:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:57:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> <> One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, _ ByVal lParam As Long) As Long Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As _ Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. Dim windows() As Long ' The number of elements in the array. Dim windowsCount As Long Sub getWindows() Dim lnghwnd As Long lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) End Sub ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) windowsCount = 0 If hWnd Then EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 Else EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 End If ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long End Function ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As _ Long Dim slength As Long Dim buffer As String Dim retval As Variant Dim classname As String ' Make room in the array, if necessary. If windowsCount = 0 Then ReDim windows(100) As Long ElseIf windowsCount >= UBound(windows) Then ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long End If ' Store the new item. windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 windows(windowsCount) = hWnd slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated window Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text of enumerated window classname = Space(255) slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname Debug.Print ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. EnumWindows_CBK = 1 End Function <> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 10:22:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 11:22:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> Message-ID: <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> Holy cow! It would appear that you have done this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 10:57 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < for example...>> > > > One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: > > Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, > _ > ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As > _ > Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > > Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias > "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long > Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" > (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As > Long > Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal > hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long > > ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure > ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine > > ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. > Dim windows() As Long > ' The number of elements in the array. > Dim windowsCount As Long > > > > > Sub getWindows() > > Dim lnghwnd As Long > > lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) > > Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) > > End Sub > > > ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows > ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. > > Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) > windowsCount = 0 > If hWnd Then > EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > Else > EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > End If > ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long > > End Function > > ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. > > Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) > As _ > Long > > Dim slength As Long > Dim buffer As String > Dim retval As Variant > Dim classname As String > > ' Make room in the array, if necessary. > If windowsCount = 0 Then > ReDim windows(100) As Long > ElseIf windowsCount>= UBound(windows) Then > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long > End If > ' Store the new item. > windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 > windows(windowsCount) = hWnd > slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text > buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer > retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text > Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated > window > Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd > Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text > of enumerated window > classname = Space(255) > slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) > classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space > Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname > Debug.Print > > ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. > EnumWindows_CBK = 1 > End Function > > > <> > From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon May 23 12:13:07 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 12:13:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> John, You have to create the property before you can set the property. At 12:01 AM 5/22/2011, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from >working. Any clues why? > >John W. Colby From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 12:31:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:31:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> References: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4DDA99E1.3030904@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. All of the other properties already existed so I was not looking for a property to not already be there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 1:13 PM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You have to create the property before you can set the property. > > > At 12:01 AM 5/22/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? >> >> John W. Colby From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 23 13:05:29 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:05:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <62A858BFF1C64B3AA9362641B80C124E@XPS> Not this specifically no, but I play around with the Windows API stuff when I get the chance. Right now I'm working on two things: 1. How to change the main Access window in 2007 & up. 2. How to make a form dockable (or at least simulate it). To do that I have a bunch of generic routines to poke around under the hood. Couple that with Process Explorer and it's amazing some of the stuff you can do or manipulate. But it's more of a hobby thing for me and I usually get myself in more trouble then it's worth. What started this is seeing "Printing on the Fly" by ATTAC Consulting years ago; I was simply amazed what they could do with API calls from within Access/VBA (hiding the properties dialog is what originally caught my eye). That and I've always wanted to get into systems programming. BTW, I tripped over this today looking for something else, which is really cool and will be interesting to everyone I'm sure (watch the wrap): http://blog.nkadesign.com/2008/ms-access-modal-dialogs-with-transparent-back grounds/ Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Holy cow! It would appear that you have done this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 10:57 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < for example...>> > > > One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: > > Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, > _ > ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As > _ > Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > > Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias > "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long > Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" > (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As > Long > Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal > hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long > > ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure > ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine > > ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. > Dim windows() As Long > ' The number of elements in the array. > Dim windowsCount As Long > > > > > Sub getWindows() > > Dim lnghwnd As Long > > lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) > > Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) > > End Sub > > > ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows > ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. > > Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) > windowsCount = 0 > If hWnd Then > EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > Else > EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > End If > ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long > > End Function > > ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. > > Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) > As _ > Long > > Dim slength As Long > Dim buffer As String > Dim retval As Variant > Dim classname As String > > ' Make room in the array, if necessary. > If windowsCount = 0 Then > ReDim windows(100) As Long > ElseIf windowsCount>= UBound(windows) Then > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long > End If > ' Store the new item. > windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 > windows(windowsCount) = hWnd > slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text > buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer > retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text > Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated > window > Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd > Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text > of enumerated window > classname = Space(255) > slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) > classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space > Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname > Debug.Print > > ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. > EnumWindows_CBK = 1 > End Function > > > <> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:03:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:03:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAAF9D.23921.2A7E8FC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'm aware of that technique. It's actually a lot easier to do that sort of thing using AutoIt. That is exactly what AutoIt was designed for and you don't need to use API messages to do it. But it's still a kludge. :-) -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 9:22, jwcolby wrote: > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and > then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > Actually cool stuff to know. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > > I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > > > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > > password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere > > in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after > > entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar > > utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a > > PW is a far more difficult task. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:06:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:06:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAB01C.25517.2A807DF4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> He used Spy++. It is one of a number of similar utilities that let you get all the info about any Windows control by hovering over it or clicking on it. AutoIt comes with a similar tool called AutoInfo. -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 9:49, jwcolby wrote: > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? > for example... > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties > dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDPassword) > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause > it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password boxers and > clicking the button. > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > 'Move to Protection tab > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab > changed. EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, > AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties > dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDPassword) ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit > control in Project Properties dialog hWndConfirmPassword = > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' > Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project > Properties dialog hWndLockProject = > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > ' Lock project for &viewing > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > ' &Password > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > strPassword > > ' &Confirm password > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > strPassword > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and > > then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > > Actually cool stuff to know. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > >> > >> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > >> I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > >> > >> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > >> > >> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > >> password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere > >> in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after > >> entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities > >> work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a > >> far more difficult task. > >> > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:08:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:08:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Like I said just now - it's a kludge. It only works under certain conditions, and is certainly not a foolproof technique for setting/unsetting PW protection on code :-( -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 10:53, jwcolby wrote: > Using this code I succeeded in opening my two frameworks and setting > the module passwords in those, however doing so in the application > causes the app to open and the startup code to run, which opens a > login form (as it should on opening). > > It's always something! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:49 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the > > objects? for example... > > > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > > > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to > > cause it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password > > boxers and clicking the button. > > > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > > ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > > > 'Move to Protection tab > > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. > > EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf > > EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties > > dialog hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > > ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox > > control in Project Properties dialog hWndLockProject = > > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > > > ' Lock project for &viewing > > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > > > ' &Password > > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > > > ' &Confirm password > > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > > strPassword > > > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > >> > >> http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > >> > >> It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up > >> and then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > >> Actually cool stuff to know. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >>> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do > >>> that, > >>> > >>> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > >>> I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > >>> > >>> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > >>> > >>> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > >>> password (possibly just be writing a different hash value > >>> somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself > >>> after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar > >>> utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a > >>> PW is a far more difficult task. > >>> > >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 15:23:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 16:23:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Access security is a kludge. By definition anything attempting to do this is a kludge since there is no direct method of doing so. I am reasonably certain I could work around this specific problem by doing things in specific order, Setting the code password then setting the AllowBypassKey true, setting the code password then setting the code password then setting the AllowBypassKey false. I am really trying to leave my dev copies totally unprotected but when I copy set all of the protection on them. As far as AutoIT goes, I try very hard to keep my Access manipulation tools developed inside of Access itself since it understands the target Access container and it contains native database objects for storing state and stuff, and native interface objects for displaying said state. Not to mention "starting from scratch" learning an obviously capable and powerful (and thus complex) system. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 3:08 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Like I said just now - it's a kludge. It only works under certain conditions, and is certainly not > a foolproof technique for setting/unsetting PW protection on code :-( > > From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 16:49:41 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 14:49:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 24 17:09:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 08:09:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> Message-ID: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 17:18:30 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 15:18:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 24 19:10:39 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 10:10:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> Message-ID: <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 19:53:04 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:53:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 24 20:23:23 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:23:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so it hasn't been as big a deal. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 24 20:38:28 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:38:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> Message-ID: <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> You can use the database documenter select all forms, Under Include for Sections and Controls, pick Names and Properties (note if you have named your subforms with Subfrm in the controls' name, you only need to pick Names If you had to pick Names and Properties, then click the Properties button and deselect all but "Other Properties" to make things a little less voluminous. You can export the results to Word (or Excel if you think it will fit -- probably Excel 2007+ will have enough vertical space) Look for Subform/Subreport: [names will appear after these characters] The hard part is keeping track of what Form the control is on... a macro might help -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 24 20:47:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 11:47:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I gave up on shared subforms a long time ago - had too many situations where new requirements meant that the same sub-form no longer worked on both master forms. Like you , I try to keep event procedures down to simple function calls with all the grunt work done in standard modules. -- Stuart On 24 May 2011 at 21:23, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I > suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find > keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. > > Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored > in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so > it hasn't been as big a deal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create > list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > > > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine > > out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 24 21:28:29 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:28:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com>, <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105250229.p4P2TXLB002589@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ That is a great approach. Using regular modules also makes the code much easier to transfer to another app with little or minor changes. If you are using form code that is not always as easy to do. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan [stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 11:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I gave up on shared subforms a long time ago - had too many situations where new requirements meant that the same sub-form no longer worked on both master forms. Like you , I try to keep event procedures down to simple function calls with all the grunt work done in standard modules. -- Stuart On 24 May 2011 at 21:23, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I > suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find > keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. > > Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored > in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so > it hasn't been as big a deal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create > list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > > > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine > > out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 25 08:22:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 09:22:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> Message-ID: <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... > 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, > 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, > 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, > 4. close each form > If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. > > BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some > other places. > Your other brother, > Darrell > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If > you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick > Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the > free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in > about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > [dhb at flsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies > subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > >> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out >> there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 25 09:32:23 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 10:32:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> >>" probably the only way to do it" Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... Bill -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... > 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, > 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls > for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more > straightforward way, I'm still interested. > > BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in > some other places. > Your other brother, > Darrell > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > > > Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at > you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick > Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the > free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself > in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > [dhb at flsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > >> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action > in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than > the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 25 11:54:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:54:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> Bill, Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought this was regarding subforms in Access. What in the heck is the doc/xls? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>> " probably the only way to do it" > Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to write a > once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines in the output > doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. > > Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since > the subforms aren't bound until runtime. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, >> 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls >> for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more >> straightforward way, I'm still interested. >> >> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >> some other places. >> Your other brother, >> Darrell >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >> Collins >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom >> of this message. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> >> >> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" > by Rick >> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the >> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >> [dhb at flsi.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >> list :-) >> >> frmMain >> frmMain_subCustomersList >> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >> >> >> >>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >> addressed. >> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >> review, >> >> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action >> in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than >> the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >> >> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >> >> This message has been scanned for viruses. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 25 14:15:55 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:15:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02e401cc1b10$2c7d7d30$85787790$@com> Bill, This isn't going to be a one-time process. Here's how I use it: On StartUp, I fill global arrays with each form/subform's name, RecordSource, and whether the RecordSource is a temp table. Since I make heavy use of tabbed subforms, I bind them to temp tables that are filled on the fly. I call a function that checks the RecordSource array to tell me which temp table needs to be filled. I had this logic hard-coded on each master form before, but now it's a shared procedure and is much easier to add new forms. Another advantage is that I can fill the subform tables before I load the form. - Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms You can use the database documenter select all forms, Under Include for Sections and Controls, pick Names and Properties (note if you have named your subforms with Subfrm in the controls' name, you only need to pick Names If you had to pick Names and Properties, then click the Properties button and deselect all but "Other Properties" to make things a little less voluminous. You can export the results to Word (or Excel if you think it will fit -- probably Excel 2007+ will have enough vertical space) Look for Subform/Subreport: [names will appear after these characters] The hard part is keeping track of what Form the control is on... a macro might help -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 25 15:01:00 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 16:01:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> John, Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get the details you want. I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend one, it would be Allforms lol) Bill -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms Bill, Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought this was regarding subforms in Access. What in the heck is the doc/xls? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>> " probably the only way to do it" > Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to > write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines > in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. > > Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms > since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >> still interested. >> >> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >> some other places. >> Your other brother, >> Darrell >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >> Collins >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >> bottom of this message. >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> >> >> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" > by Rick >> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the >> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >> [dhb at flsi.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >> list :-) >> >> frmMain >> frmMain_subCustomersList >> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >> >> >> >>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >> addressed. >> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >> review, >> >> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >> >> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >> >> This message has been scanned for viruses. >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 26 05:08:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 06:08:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform controls at runtime. I call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that control does not have a subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different subforms into the same subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The upshot is that the documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick these up. I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > John, > > Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible > ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with > Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative > > The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel > file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get > the details you want. > > I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend > one, it would be Allforms lol) > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > Bill, > > Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought > this was regarding subforms in Access. > > What in the heck is the doc/xls? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>> " probably the only way to do it" >> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >> >> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>> still interested. >>> >>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>> some other places. >>> Your other brother, >>> Darrell >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>> bottom of this message. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> >>> >>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >> by Rick >>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use > the >>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>> list :-) >>> >>> frmMain >>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>> >>> >>> >>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>> addressed. >>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>> review, >>> >>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>> >>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>> >>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>> >>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu May 26 11:25:05 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:25:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007+ 64-bit unanticipated problem Message-ID: Like many others on this list, I have come to value MzTools as absolutely indispensable. However, I have recently discovered that it will not run in a 64-bit environment (unless I install Office 32-bit, which I am reluctant to do). The author of MzTools has declared his intention never to do a 64-bit version. Bummer! So now I'm reduced to copying the headers and error handlers from old procedures to new ones, or alternatively, Saving the App in 32-bit version, running MzTools there, and copying the generated code and documentation back to the 64-bit version. Either way, it sucks. Unlike some developers here, I have committed to the 64-bit version, and believe that the days of 32-bit are numbered. So I may ultimately be forced to reverse-engineer MzTools, revise some portions I'm less than happy with, and release something called ArtfulToolsVBA64. Well, now that I'm semi-retired, with just one remaining client (who is undyingly faithful), perhaps I've got the time available to embark on this project. So, a word of caution: either don't commit to the new format or install a 32-bit version of Office so this problem won't arise. Sadly, Arthur From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 26 13:26:05 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:26:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 13:36:51 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:36:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 26 13:56:53 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:56:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu May 26 13:56:07 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:56:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: All, Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. I have never experimented with this area before. We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the date that the Email was sent. I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure where to start. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Brad From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:09:23 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:09:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: http://www.helenfeddema.com/ Helen's the automation queen as far as I'm concerned. Have fun! Susan H. > All, > > Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. > > I have never experimented with this area before. > > We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the > date that the Email was sent. > > I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure > where to start. > > Any advice would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:32:17 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:32:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com><9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and enter the string to id the patient? Susan H. > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to > track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked > them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying > yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return > and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll > need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 26 14:34:47 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:34:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> John, Are your JIT subforms pre-bound to a table or query, or do you create the recordsource on the fly? DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform controls at runtime. I call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that control does not have a subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different subforms into the same subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The upshot is that the documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick these up. I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > John, > > Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible > ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with > Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative > > The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel > file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get > the details you want. > > I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend > one, it would be Allforms lol) > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > Bill, > > Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought > this was regarding subforms in Access. > > What in the heck is the doc/xls? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>> " probably the only way to do it" >> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >> >> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>> still interested. >>> >>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>> some other places. >>> Your other brother, >>> Darrell >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>> bottom of this message. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> >>> >>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >> by Rick >>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use > the >>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>> list :-) >>> >>> frmMain >>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>> >>> >>> >>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>> addressed. >>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>> review, >>> >>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>> >>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>> >>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>> >>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 26 14:53:06 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:53:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Hi John. Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. And the DOB should always be in YYYYMMDD order. As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. HTH, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 11:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [Spam]8.31 Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:58:55 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:58:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins><4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: I agree John -- hence my questions. I don't think this custom id is necessary and is apt to cause you trouble. Susan H. > Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other > words, > a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his > surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead > of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the > same > key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a > unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You > may > want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be > indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build > an > index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. And the DOB should always be in > YYYYMMDD order. > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu May 26 15:13:54 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:13:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in trouble. Charlotte Foust On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM, John Clark wrote: > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. > >>>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> >> 1) >> The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique >> identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. ?The only personal data I am >> getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This >> is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from >> infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. >> >> The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 >> letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle >> initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits >> of DoB. >> >> For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be >> assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 >> >> It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just >> looking for opinions on this... > > > =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If > you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to > all this trouble? > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From markamatte at hotmail.com Thu May 26 15:26:35 2011 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 20:26:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, Message-ID: I am also doing quite a bit with company/individual name and address matching...and you gave the perfect example that causes issues: Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 Age 5 Joe comes in...age 10 Joseph comes in...age 14...he switched to using his middle name in high school. I don't remember who suggested it...but I liked the idea of the lookup in the interface to choose the existing patient. Mark A. Matte > Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:13:54 -0700 > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for > yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they > need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a > fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of > the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the > one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but > that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. > They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in > trouble. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM, John Clark > wrote: > > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. > > > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. > > > >>>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > >> 1) > >> The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > >> identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > >> getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > >> is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > >> infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > >> > >> The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > >> letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > >> initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > >> of DoB. > >> > >> For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > >> assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > >> > >> It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > >> looking for opinions on this... > > > > > > =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If > > you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to > > all this trouble? > > > > Susan H. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu May 26 15:35:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:35:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> John, <> You need to: 1. Use an auto number as the "primary key" for the table. 2. Add an additional index on the table based on the last name, first name, middle init and DOB (this is the true primary key). You should never use parts of field as part of a key. It's the whole field or nothing. 3. Provide a lookup in the interface for the user to select the right person based on the true primary key. The auto number just gains you performance within the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 02:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Thu May 26 15:40:27 2011 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:40:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> Message-ID: For tracking here we use gender, date of Birth, last 4 of the ssn, first two letters of the last name (Birth name) My tracking ID would be 1091319490687TE Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 4:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions John, <> You need to: 1. Use an auto number as the "primary key" for the table. 2. Add an additional index on the table based on the last name, first name, middle init and DOB (this is the true primary key). You should never use parts of field as part of a key. It's the whole field or nothing. 3. Provide a lookup in the interface for the user to select the right person based on the true primary key. The auto number just gains you performance within the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 02:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 15:48:21 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:48:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, Message-ID: <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> The same problem will exist with a lookup interface, but the potential error will be more obvious--hopefully. If you force the user to create the id on the fly, they're liable to generate an id that exists for someone else and never even know it. Joe T Murphy born on Dec 7th, 1994 Tom M Murphy albo born on Dec 7, 1994 So Joe T. comes in at 14 and gives his name as Tom Murphy, the user plugs in MURTO?120794 which pulls up MURTOM120794 when Joe's id is actually MURJOT120794 but the user isn't paying attention and loads away...of course, you could build in protection, but the potential's there. You'll have the same problem with a lookup interface, but at least, it will be more obvious that there's more than one Murphy on the same birthdate -- not sure how to avoid a problem like this other than having other than forcing the user to ask for more information when there's more than one record that might fulfill a request. "I have two Murphy's born on that date -- can I have your full name please?" -- interesting problem. Don't these folks have a patient id? How would the dentist in question identify the two patients -- what criteria are they currently using? I have this sort of problem a lot -- even when I write my name down, people have trouble with it and want to pull up records for Susan Hawkins, Susan Parkins, Susan Haskins -- happens to me all the time. So, this is really more than a database design problem. Susan H. > > I am also doing quite a bit with company/individual name and address > matching...and you gave the perfect example that causes issues: > Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 > > Age 5 Joe comes in...age 10 Joseph comes in...age 14...he switched to > using his middle name in high school. > > I don't remember who suggested it...but I liked the idea of the lookup in > the interface to choose the existing patient. > >> >> What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for >> yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they >> need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a >> fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of >> the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the >> one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but >> that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. >> They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in >> trouble. >> >> Charlotte Foust From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu May 26 18:30:13 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 01:30:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <0C4789195145441983C735DCD931CF4B@abpc> John, For once a question, I'm fit to answer - the dumb one ;-) Office Button -> Access Options -> Current Database -> Select "Overlapping Windows" instead of "Tabbed Documents" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af John Clark Sendt: 26. maj 2011 20:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Thu May 26 22:15:18 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:15:18 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] HyperlinkAddress Message-ID: New to me: OnClick of a form's command button has this - Me.btnName.HyperlinkAddress = "http://fs3/truck/rptTruckPortAll.asp" I presume that the asp is on a server somewhere. I have a local copy which is a text file containing vbScript (looks like ADO connection strings) followed by HTML for the layout of the data. The customer has a brand new Server configuration so this has broken. I assume all I need to do is to get them to give me the new location and replace the code line above? Stephen Bond From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 26 22:38:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 13:38:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] HyperlinkAddress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDF1CD1.12481.EFB35EC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That should work as long as the ADO connection strings are still correct. However if they have reconfigured servers, you may need to change the connection strings in the .asp file to point to wherever the data is now as well. -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 15:15, Stephen Bond wrote: > New to me: > > OnClick of a form's command button has this - > > Me.btnName.HyperlinkAddress = > "http://fs3/truck/rptTruckPortAll.asp" > > I presume that the asp is on a server somewhere. I have a local copy > which is a text file containing vbScript (looks like ADO connection > strings) followed by HTML for the layout of the data. The customer > has a brand new Server configuration so this has broken. I assume all > I need to do is to get them to give me the new location and replace > the code line above? > > Stephen Bond > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 27 00:55:46 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 01:55:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). A. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 01:06:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 16:06:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the item concerned or to it's container. Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > are an excellent example). > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri May 27 08:18:47 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , , <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in a dozen or more table relationships is changed. Dan PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the item concerned or to it's container. Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > are an excellent example). > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:24:34 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:24:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com><9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already been there, and what data they provided at that time. And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and enter the string to id the patient? Susan H. > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to > track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked > them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying > yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return > and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll > need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:35:00 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:35:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> >>> "Darrell Burns" 5/26/2011 3:53 P >>> Hi John. Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. *** You bring up good points, but this is all the info I have to work with. But, I will probably change to include more of the first name, and maybe even the last name too. *** I do use the autonumber in the table; I am just using this one for searching and tracking purposes. *** If '49 was entered for the birthday it would kick it out, because the person is too old for the survey. But, I understand your point, and in my case it is a minimal risk of error...there is immediate feedback on age, so it would probably stick out, if it weren't close. And, I may build in some validation features as well. *** the adoption...or change of use of MI...did occur to me, but I really don't have many other options. And the DOB should always be in YYYYMMDD order. *** Why? Seriously...I am not challenging your claim, but I'd really like to learn about this. What does the order really matter? It isn't a big deal to change this, but before I do things like this I like to know why...so w/I am asked I don't just confess to being a blind follower. As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. *** Thank you...I did not know this and it was driving me nuts. HTH, Darrell ----- From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:37:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:37:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDFB711.6070708@colbyconsulting.com> I second the autonumber as the (surrogate) PK but I use a hash (discussed previously) to hash the full name and DOB (in this case) to get as unique an identifier as you possibly can boiled down to a single field. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 2:26 PM, John Clark wrote: > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... > > 2) > This one is a dumb one... > > I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? > > Thanks...J Clark From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:41:07 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:41:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DDF7FC30200006B0001FC7B@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 4:48 P >>> The same problem will exist with a lookup interface, but the potential error will be more obvious--hopefully. If you force the user to create the id on the fly, they're liable to generate an id that exists for someone else and never even know it. Joe T Murphy born on Dec 7th, 1994 Tom M Murphy albo born on Dec 7, 1994 So Joe T. comes in at 14 and gives his name as Tom Murphy, the user plugs in MURTO?120794 which pulls up MURTOM120794 when Joe's id is actually MURJOT120794 but the user isn't paying attention and loads away...of course, you could build in protection, but the potential's there. *** Well, then Joe would be a damn liar, eh?! ;o) *** Seriously though, how could I possibly account for someone giving me the wrong name...w/out having a SSN? Anybody can come in and tell us anything. You'll have the same problem with a lookup interface, but at least, it will be more obvious that there's more than one Murphy on the same birthdate -- not sure how to avoid a problem like this other than having other than forcing the user to ask for more information when there's more than one record that might fulfill a request. "I have two Murphy's born on that date -- can I have your full name please?" -- interesting problem. *** I've already been thinking about something like this...just if it comes up that it is already an entered name/ID. But, I probably wouldn't bother, unless in conflicted. Don't these folks have a patient id? How would the dentist in question identify the two patients -- what criteria are they currently using? *** There is no dentist involved actually. This is just a program through the health department, for tracking. I have this sort of problem a lot -- even when I write my name down, people have trouble with it and want to pull up records for Susan Hawkins, Susan Parkins, Susan Haskins -- happens to me all the time. So, this is really more than a database design problem. *** Oh, believe me...w/your name is "John Clark" you know all about this...hell, I've almost gotten arrested over it. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:41:29 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:41:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> Message-ID: <4DDFB819.7010900@colbyconsulting.com> Usually they are bound to a query. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 3:34 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > John, > Are your JIT subforms pre-bound to a table or query, or do you create the > recordsource on the fly? > DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform > controls at runtime. I > call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that > control does not have a > subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different > subforms into the same > subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The > upshot is that the > documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick > these up. > > I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >> John, >> >> Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is > possible >> ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with >> Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative >> >> The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an > Excel >> file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and > get >> the details you want. >> >> I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend >> one, it would be Allforms lol) >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> Bill, >> >> Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought >> this was regarding subforms in Access. >> >> What in the heck is the doc/xls? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>>> " probably the only way to do it" >>> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >>> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >>> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >>> >>> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >>> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>>> still interested. >>>> >>>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>>> some other places. >>>> Your other brother, >>>> Darrell >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>>> Collins >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>>> bottom of this message. >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >>> by Rick >>>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use >> the >>>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>>> list :-) >>>> >>>> frmMain >>>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>>> addressed. >>>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>>> review, >>>> >>>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>>> >>>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>>> >>>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>>> >>>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:44:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:44:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> Uh ohhh... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 1:55 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of Intelligent > Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and Fabian Pascal and the > inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a good thing, in certain > applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). > > A. From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri May 27 09:47:54 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:47:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE2D3@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> This could be a good day on accessd ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions Uh ohhh... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 1:55 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). > > A. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:53:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:53:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption Message-ID: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 10:28:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 01:28:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: , , <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. ? Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash of that info as a key. Then look that up if you are checking for duplicates. It dioesn't have to be user readable. -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already > been there, and what data they provided at that time. > > And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it > is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there > would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. > > >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> > Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually > going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and > enter the string to id the patient? > > Susan H. > > > > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want > > to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I > > asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and > > they are saying yes. > > > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they > > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at > > 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each > > time. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:09:02 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:09:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of said tires a warning that there are potential issues. This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I shall use IKs. A. From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 27 11:13:03 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:13:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Message-ID: Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri May 27 11:20:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:20:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Only if the users have an MDB file that they are working with, and you'd have to open the form (via code) in design mode to make the change and then save it. All very messy. Much simpler way to do this is to save the date in a table. Then when the form opens you can look up the date in the table and then change the label caption. All this can be done in the form's Load event. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:13 PM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 11:36:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:36:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDFD2F5.5030601@colbyconsulting.com> Uhhhh Ohhhhh... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 12:09 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this > topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. > > > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I > tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational > analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which > refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I > don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until > several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need > build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of > said tires a warning that there are potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I > write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I > shall use IKs. > > A. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:52:16 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:52:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I've argued with experts about IKs like social security numbers. Their arguments always seem to boil down to, "Well, they don't USUALLY change, so that's OK." I prefer to violate strict normalization and include an IK that CAN be changed and an autonumber that can't. Then when the IK must be changed (i.e., wrong SSN), the connections among tables aren't lost. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this > topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. > > > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I > tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational > analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which > refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I > don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until > several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need > build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of > said tires a warning that there are potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I > write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I > shall use IKs. > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:55:56 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:55:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: The YYYYMMDD date format always sorts in appropriate date order, regardless of the regional settings on your machine. That's why. You needn't even save it as a date, just a number or string. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 7:35 AM, John Clark wrote: > > >>>> "Darrell Burns" 5/26/2011 3:53 P >>> > Hi John. > Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, > a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his > surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead > of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same > key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a > unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may > want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be > indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an > index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. > > *** You bring up good points, but this is all the info I have to work with. But, I will probably change to include more of the first name, and maybe even the last name too. > > *** I do use the autonumber in the table; I am just using this one for searching and tracking purposes. > > *** If '49 was entered for the birthday it would kick it out, because the person is too old for the survey. But, I understand your point, and in my case it is a minimal risk of error...there is immediate feedback on age, so it would probably stick out, if it weren't close. And, I may build in some validation features as well. > > *** the adoption...or change of use of MI...did occur to me, but I really don't have many other options. > > And the DOB should always be in > YYYYMMDD order. > *** Why? Seriously...I am not challenging your claim, but I'd really like to learn about this. What does the order really matter? It isn't a big deal to change this, but before I do things like this I like to know why...so w/I am asked I don't just confess to being a blind follower. > > As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in > upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current > Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, > there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. > *** Thank you...I did not know this and it was driving me nuts. > > HTH, > Darrell > > ----- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri May 27 11:58:20 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:58:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at the methods and properties that are available. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] redemption We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From phpons at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:22:43 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 19:22:43 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi all, I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. Do you have any experience on that matter? In that case,would you share it with me? TIA, Philippe From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:39:58 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:39:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: The hash could never change in that case. So what happens if the name changes and someone else comes in with the old name? The mantra we always followed in my previous lives was "Always Check For Existing Keys First". Charlotte On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. > ? > > Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash of that info as a key. > Then look that ?up if you are checking for duplicates. ?It dioesn't have to be user readable. > > -- > Stuart > > On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > >> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already >> been there, and what data they provided at that time. >> >> And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it >> is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there >> would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. >> >> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> >> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually >> going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and >> enter the string to id the patient? >> >> Susan H. >> >> >> > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate >> > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want >> > to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I >> > asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and >> > they are saying yes. >> > >> > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they >> > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at >> > 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each >> > time. >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 27 13:18:40 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 14:18:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Lambert, I had mentioned saving the Date and concatenating it, which I think is the best way. However, do you have a reference or a procedure for Opening the Form in design view and modifying the label and saving it. I suppose it could be done as a separate process when the database is closed. I haven't tried opening a form in design mode and modifying with vba. TIA Jack -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Only if the users have an MDB file that they are working with, and you'd have to open the form (via code) in design mode to make the change and then save it. All very messy. Much simpler way to do this is to save the date in a table. Then when the form opens you can look up the date in the table and then change the label caption. All this can be done in the form's Load event. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:13 PM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rls at WeBeDb.com Fri May 27 15:02:38 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:02:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From rls at WeBeDb.com Fri May 27 15:12:53 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:12:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67956FA3-B5AD-4A25-ACB1-ADAE60D8E59F@holly.arvixe.com> And in the case of social service agencies that deal with illegal aliens, the SSN can also be duplicated. I have seen that numerous times working with them on my application. At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:52:16 -0700 >From: Charlotte Foust >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >I've argued with experts about IKs like social security numbers. >Their arguments always seem to boil down to, "Well, they don't USUALLY >change, so that's OK." I prefer to violate strict normalization and >include an IK that CAN be changed and an autonumber that can't. Then >when the IK must be changed (i.e., wrong SSN), the connections among >tables aren't lost. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 17:45:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:45:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4DE0297B.25507.1314BE62@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> There's nothing wrong with using a batch number or other Intelligent Key in your table. Just don't use is as a Primary/Foreign Key for relationships between other tables. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 12:09, Arthur Fuller wrote: > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this > forum, I tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than > rational analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis > Date which refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept > them halfway. I don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, > unless and until several of these instances have caused highway > fatalities. Therefore, I need build this (batch) into the design, so > that I can report to all owners of said tires a warning that there are > potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically > simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app > I write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more > likely I shall use IKs. > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 17:51:43 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:51:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4DE02AFF.7994.131AA7A8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Sub myForm_BeforeUpdate() .. Hash = CalcHash(FName,Lname,MI,DOB) ... End Sub On 27 May 2011 at 10:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > The hash could never change in that case. So what happens if the name > changes and someone else comes in with the old name? The mantra we > always followed in my previous lives was "Always Check For Existing > Keys First". > > Charlotte > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > > And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is > > already present. ? > > > > Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash > > of that info as a key. Then look that ?up if you are checking for > > duplicates. ?It dioesn't have to be user readable. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > > > >> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already > >> been there, and what data they provided at that time. > >> > >> And, no, the person entering data does not enter the > >> number/rule...it is done automagically after they enter the other > >> data. And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id > >> is already present. > >> > >> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> > >> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users > >> actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your > >> rule and enter the string to id the patient? > >> > >> Susan H. > >> > >> > >> > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 > >> > alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple > >> > times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit > >> > habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these > >> > same clients return and they are saying yes. > >> > > >> > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they > >> > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally > >> > at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person > >> > each time. > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat May 28 00:25:32 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:25:32 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display Message-ID: A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 28 05:19:06 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:19:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 28 05:42:31 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:42:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50265A3B3AEC42AB9D8A9FEBEC15E29C@abpc> And now I just noticed that the date field has a property called Show Date Picker, which you can set to Never. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Asger Blond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 12:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat May 28 06:27:04 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 07:27:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007+ 64-bit unanticipated problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE0DC08.7060306@torchlake.com> Arthur, Could be a whole new career for you - translating good 32-bit apps into good 64-bit apps. :-) T Arthur Fuller wrote: > Like many others on this list, I have come to value MzTools as absolutely > indispensable. However, I have recently discovered that it will not run in a > 64-bit environment (unless I install Office 32-bit, which I am reluctant to > do). The author of MzTools has declared his intention never to do a 64-bit > version. Bummer! So now I'm reduced to copying the headers and error > handlers from old procedures to new ones, or alternatively, Saving the App > in 32-bit version, running MzTools there, and copying the generated code and > documentation back to the 64-bit version. Either way, it sucks. > > Unlike some developers here, I have committed to the 64-bit version, and > believe that the days of 32-bit are numbered. So I may ultimately be forced > to reverse-engineer MzTools, revise some portions I'm less than happy with, > and release something called ArtfulToolsVBA64. Well, now that I'm > semi-retired, with just one remaining client (who is undyingly faithful), > perhaps I've got the time available to embark on this project. > > So, a word of caution: either don't commit to the new format or install a > 32-bit version of Office so this problem won't arise. > > Sadly, > Arthur > From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 28 11:30:47 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:30:47 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi Philippe Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp A fully functional trial is available for download. Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners and their misbehaving. /gustav >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> Hi all, I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. Do you have any experience on that matter? In that case,would you share it with me? TIA, Philippe From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 13:27:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:27:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation Message-ID: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=1 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 13:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:39:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE14171.5070607@colbyconsulting.com> Never mind. I discovered I can just navigate to a url to get it and I can dynamically build that URL. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 2:27 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=1 > > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 28 15:13:03 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 13:13:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just a note John: This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the time you posted this. ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa ge=1 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 15:33:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 16:33:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. Google nc public offender website On the left hand site click Offender public search Find yourself. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note John: > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they > should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the > time you posted this. > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does > seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on > felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few > terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific > information. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web > page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically > display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa > ge=1 > From phpons at gmail.com Sat May 28 15:52:16 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:52:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thank's a lot for your input, it seems chestysoft provides the ocx I need. But who is this Simon Chester, and how would I reach him, if needed? He does not seem to be an AccessD guy, does he? Regards, Philippe 2011/5/28 Gustav Brock > Hi Philippe > > Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: > > http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp > > A fully functional trial is available for download. > > Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable > animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support > from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners > and their misbehaving. > > /gustav > > > >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> > Hi all, > > I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control > a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. > > Do you have any experience on that matter? > In that case,would you share it with me? > > TIA, > > Philippe > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From phpons at gmail.com Sat May 28 15:54:38 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:54:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Will you find DSK, our ex next "Pr?sident de la R?publique"? Philippe 2011/5/28 jwcolby > This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. > > Google > > nc public offender website > > On the left hand site click > > Offender public search > > Find yourself. ;) > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Just a note John: >> >> This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they >> should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within >> the >> time you posted this. >> >> ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does >> seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on >> felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few >> terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very >> specific >> information. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation >> >> Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web >> page? Notice the "click >> to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to >> automatically >> display the photo. >> >> >> http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 >> >> 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa >> ge=1 >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat May 28 16:33:52 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 09:33:52 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Asger, these both work well. I was looking for a global setting ... duhh. (I pick up my pension soon) Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Saturday, 28 May 2011 10:46 p.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display And now I just noticed that the date field has a property called Show Date Picker, which you can set to Never. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Asger Blond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 12:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 28 19:10:32 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:10:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: It just seems strange to me. Working within a number of government projects there are some very strict guide-lines as to who has access to what data. It must be a state thing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] vba IE automation This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. Google nc public offender website On the left hand site click Offender public search Find yourself. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note John: > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they > should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the > time you posted this. > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does > seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on > felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few > terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific > information. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web > page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically > display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa > ge=1 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 28 20:29:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 11:29:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com>, <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DE1A17D.20360.18D19906@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A quick google reveals similar websites for a number of US states. -- Stuart On 28 May 2011 at 17:10, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > It just seems strange to me. Working within a number of government > projects there are some very strict guide-lines as to who has access > to what data. It must be a state thing. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. > > Google > > nc public offender website > > On the left hand site click > > Offender public search > > Find yourself. ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Just a note John: > > > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps > > they should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire > > database within > the > > time you posted this. > > > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it > > does seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking > > system, on felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible > > through a very few terminal and with multiple security levels and > > displaying only very > specific > > information. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on > > the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying > > this on a form but I want to > automatically > > display the photo. > > > > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offend > erID=0 > > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults& > listpa > ge=1 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 29 02:34:48 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 09:34:48 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi Philippe Simon more or less is Chestysoft. >From the home page: "Chestysoft is owned by Simon Chester" /gustav >>> phpons at gmail.com 28-05-2011 22:52 >>> Hi Gustav, Thank's a lot for your input, it seems chestysoft provides the ocx I need. But who is this Simon Chester, and how would I reach him, if needed? He does not seem to be an AccessD guy, does he? Regards, Philippe 2011/5/28 Gustav Brock > Hi Philippe > > Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: > > http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp > > A fully functional trial is available for download. > > Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable > animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support > from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners > and their misbehaving. > > /gustav > > > >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> > Hi all, > > I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control > a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. > > Do you have any experience on that matter? > In that case,would you share it with me? > > TIA, > > Philippe From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 29 19:18:57 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 20:18:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon May 30 02:52:44 2011 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 08:52:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at the > methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security > nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move > for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those > things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the > MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening > outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was > moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder > that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being > there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the > folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 07:45:35 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 07:45:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 30 07:55:59 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 07:55:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Message-ID: I use ClickYes -- I send out hundreds of emails through Outlook at a time. I just turn ClickYes on, start the email routine, and walk away. There's nothing to click. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 08:57:03 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 08:57:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001b01cc1ed1$7658c8f0$630a5ad0$@comcast.net> That works differently than I knew about. But still, I don't need to train users how to do it - emails, and the MS Security Dialogbox, are just not displayed. Outlook Evader does have additional properties and methods which I've found pretty useful - like letting users decide if they want to save emails sent from my app to be saved in the Sent folder or not. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption I use ClickYes -- I send out hundreds of emails through Outlook at a time. I just turn ClickYes on, start the email routine, and walk away. There's nothing to click. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:11:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:11:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) ? Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) ? Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:15:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:15:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> Mark, > I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. And that works well when it works well. In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to process... We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a > few years ago. > > It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly > dialogbox MS put in the way. > > Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. > > Mark From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Mon May 30 20:26:20 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 03:26:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> Jim, I don't want to reiterate this discussion but your comment puzzles me. I quite agree that an autonumber is not a primary key, but I would then hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be. So just to get you right I would like to know: Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a unique index on the autonumber field? And also: when implementing a foreign key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the autonumber key? If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then I disagree and we have a point of discussion. If not, I don't get the meaning in your comment. Then you are in accordance with Robert, and I suggest with most of us. The disagreement appears to me to be a matter of wording, or if you prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 20:32:17 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 20:32:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Mark, > I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. And that works well when it works well. In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to process... We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years > ago. > > It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the > silly dialogbox MS put in the way. > > Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. > > Mark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 30 20:34:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:34:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: , , <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE4458C.17944.2322969C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Hear, hear! -- Stuart On 30 May 2011 at 21:11, jwcolby wrote: > Jim, > > >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that > says a primary key cannot change. > > First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational > model but I will just give you that one. No contest. > > Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: > > Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order > for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying > something like: > > Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do > care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. > > Just for the record, my hand is not up. > > Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* > change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not > the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or > fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add > one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all > hell breaks loose. > > Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with > your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to > say, you can give it a rest. > > I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better > damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could > refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it > the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could > avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. > > So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to > call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it > the PK around Jim" object and tell us. > > We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK > because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and > click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the > "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK > around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to > that as the PK. > > We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same > thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" > object and voila, MS calls it the PK. > > *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with > another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not > call it the PK around Jim" object. > > Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your > professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. > > I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. > > And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so > do I. > > Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them > however I am going to. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key > > There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: > > Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) > A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The > surrogate is internally generated by > the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. > Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) > A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The > surrogate is internally generated > by the system and is invisible to the user or application. > > http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 > > A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. > > It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used > for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate > primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. > > http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm > http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html > > 1. Common Key Terminology > > Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys > and then work through an example. These terms are: > > * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely > identify an entity. In a > physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns > whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. > * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more > attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of > attributes that already exist in the real world. > For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) > that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's > pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, > assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the > scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). > * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. > * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model > will have zero or more candidate > keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people > don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no > hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American > citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and > the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is > unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are > called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the > primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within > a physical data model. > * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. > * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another > unique identifier of a row > within a table. > * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that > represents a key, either > primary or secondary, in another entity type. > > I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is > precisely the above set of terms. > > Since every key uniquely identifies the row... > > The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with > the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database > designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was > selected because it is just that. > > As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the > (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real > world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the > relational model. > > As if I care. > > The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in > the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often > conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural > keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to > actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical > relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). > > You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality > we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is > where *I* live!". > > Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from > which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out > I still have to call myself uneducated! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > < > not dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational > > model is > > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list > > a while > > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a > > tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the > > data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is > > unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that > > combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and > > ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on > > every row > > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in > > relational terms is not a surrogate key. > > > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will > > ensure that a > > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, > > then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table > > (relation). > > > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number > > as a > > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need > > to create a unique index based on the PK. > > > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it > > can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, > > great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job > > done. > > > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > > shortcut. > > > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a > > name > > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's > > allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper > > on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. > > > > Jim. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 30 20:35:00 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:35:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com>, Message-ID: <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Models are not reality. (Neither in information systems nor in climate ) -- Stuart On 29 May 2011 at 20:18, Jim Dettman wrote: > There is nothing stated in any paper on the > relational model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:59:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:59:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com>, <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DE44B8B.3040602@colbyconsulting.com> Hear, Hear! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:35 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Models are not reality. (Neither in information systems nor in climate) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 10:05:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:05:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DE503C3.1060103@colbyconsulting.com> Have fun is RIGHT. I am doing Outlook automation from C# and the security warnings crapola every time you do anything is annoying / obnoxious. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 3:09 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > http://www.helenfeddema.com/ > > Helen's the automation queen as far as I'm concerned. > > > > > > Have fun! > > Susan H. > > >> All, >> >> Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. >> >> I have never experimented with this area before. >> >> We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the >> date that the Email was sent. >> >> I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure >> where to start. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 10:07:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:07:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as > folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if > you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to > process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the >> silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 31 10:13:53 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:13:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many others. Arthur On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby wrote: > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 31 10:23:35 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:23:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> Hi John, If downloading is an issue, you might want to look at Outlook Evader again. For a c# windows form app, it is installed as a single file in your project: vbMAPI.cs or vbMAPI_cs4.cs (depending on your VS version). http://www.everythingaccess.com/vbmapi/csharptips.htm Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such > as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, > so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you > are trying to process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 31 10:31:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:31:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> All my customers are corporate, and they all use Outlook. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many others. Arthur On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby wrote: > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue May 31 11:24:20 2011 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:24:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> John, I do use Redemption but not any of the features you are trying to use. Have you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond whenever I've had questions. Doris Manning Senior Developer/Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [dba-VB] redemption We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:36:12 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:36:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, I am setting up an automated system for: 1) Receive an email with an Excel attachment 2) Strip the attachment, create a directory and place the attachment into it. 3) Create a SQL Server database (temporary) 4) Import a list of zips in each page of the spreadsheet into a matching table in the database 5) Count the household / population in those zips 6) generate an email back out with the counts in the body of the email. The objective is that the client sends an email that matches strict criteria (Count name in the subject, files have count name pattern in the file name etc) and have the system automatically pick up the email (pull it into the server), get the attachment and process it. I went looking and all I could find for automating GMail was web crapola, IOW if you wanted to do stuff with it on your web site. I need it on my server. I am not using outlook per se, I am trying to get an object that is a POP or CDO or whatever. Something that will pull data into a email store local to my computer that I can manipulate. No one spoke up when I asked how to do this. Now everyone has an opinion. OTOH I have actual running code that does this now, so opinions at this point do me no good. I already paid to develop this. I have a business to run, you know? When I ask and get no response I go figure it out myself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 11:13 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I > just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current > preference being gmail, but there are many others. > > Arthur > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >> We are using the free version of Redemption. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:37:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:37:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE5194B.2010109@colbyconsulting.com> Dan, See my response to Arthur. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 11:23 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > Hi John, > > If downloading is an issue, you might want to look at Outlook Evader again. > For a c# windows form app, it is installed as a single file in your project: > vbMAPI.cs or vbMAPI_cs4.cs (depending on your VS version). > > http://www.everythingaccess.com/vbmapi/csharptips.htm > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ > > The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: >> What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption >> >> Mark, >> >> > I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years ago. >> >> And that works well when it works well. >> >> In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such >> as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop > up. >> Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, >> so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you >> are trying to process... >> >> We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better > fit. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >>> Hello John, >>> >>> I also used a program named >>> ClickYes a few years >>> ago. >>> >>> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >>> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >>> >>> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >>> >>> Mark >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:38:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:38:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] redemption In-Reply-To: <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <4DE51995.7040006@colbyconsulting.com> >Have you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond whenever I've had questions. Not yet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 12:24 PM, Doris Manning wrote: > John, > > I do use Redemption but not any of the features you are trying to use. Have > you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond > whenever I've had questions. > > Doris Manning > Senior Developer/Database Administrator > Hargrove Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [dba-VB] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security > nonsense. We are using the > RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was > missing the mail.subject > property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the > MailReceived event never > fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to > download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was > moved to. IOW if we move > a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were > put into, the collection > doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, > *then* back in our code the > folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 31 13:49:22 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:49:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002d01cc1fc3$74feef50$5efccdf0$@cox.net> VB.Net has some nice classes to send email, but as far as I can tell nothing to receive it. I use the mail classes in several desktop apps and web sites. Your quest made me curious so I did a brief search. This link sounds like it addresses some of the same issues your facing; http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/programming-life/reading-email-using-mapi-in-vbn et-5855. I have no knowledge of using Redemption from .NET but this guy apparently has it working. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such > as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, > so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you > are trying to process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue May 31 14:51:34 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Wow... this almost looks like an email from me to JWC... did you start drinking rational juice lately or something John? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 15:06:21 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:06:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> John, My point and my only point was that the problem John was facing exactly illustrated the differences of a true Pk and what everyone calls a PK. In regards to surrogates, the dictionary definition of a "surrogate" means "to take the place of". If John adds an auto number to his table, is he not still faced with the exact same problem; how to distinguish one patient from another? Yes. Adding an auto number does nothing to solve that problem. If that auto number is called "PatientID" and is given to the person, is it now a surrogate? Yes. It has meaning and can no longer be reassigned at will. That is a surrogate key and can function as a PK. <> Boy, you missed the point of that question (it was not a statement). I wondered "which one of us uneducated?". The implication was that: 1. Either you because you care less about the theory and simply do things "because it works". 2. Or myself because I care about the theory even though at the end of the day, I still live in the real world and end up doing the same things as you do. In other words, I was questioning myself. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 15:35:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:35:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE55101.9040000@colbyconsulting.com> > In other words, I was questioning myself. LOL, nice save. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > My point and my only point was that the problem John was facing exactly > illustrated the differences of a true Pk and what everyone calls a PK. > > In regards to surrogates, the dictionary definition of a "surrogate" means > "to take the place of". > > If John adds an auto number to his table, is he not still faced with the > exact same problem; how to distinguish one patient from another? Yes. > Adding an auto number does nothing to solve that problem. If that auto > number is called "PatientID" and is given to the person, is it now a > surrogate? Yes. It has meaning and can no longer be reassigned at will. > That is a surrogate key and can function as a PK. > > < which that metaphor came, > though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself > uneducated!>> > > Boy, you missed the point of that question (it was not a statement). I > wondered "which one of us uneducated?". The implication was that: > > 1. Either you because you care less about the theory and simply do things > "because it works". > > 2. Or myself because I care about the theory even though at the end of the > day, I still live in the real world and end up doing the same things as you > do. > > > In other words, I was questioning myself. > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > Jim, > > >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a > primary key cannot change. > > First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model > but I will just give > you that one. No contest. > > Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: > > Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for > your hand to be counted > as up, you need to respond saying something like: > > Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care > that nothing in any > paper says... etc etc. > > Just for the record, my hand is not up. > > Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, > only that it causes > enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the > business rules defining the > field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. > Add one field to the > required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. > > Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your > academic friends. They will > all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. > > I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better > damned well not call it the > PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well > not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we > could avoid this absolutely > silly conversation yet another time. > > So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call > this "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. > > We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, > better damned well not > call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. > Click on the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and > click the PK little > golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, > better damned well not call > it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer > to that as the PK. > > We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing > happens. Click the > little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well > not call it the PK > around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. > > *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name > for the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. > > Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your > professor friends call it the > PK, and leave it alone. > > I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. > > And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. > > Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I > am going to. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key > > There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: > > Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) > A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is > internally generated by > the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. > Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) > A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate > is internally generated > by the system and is invisible to the user or application. > > http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 > > A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. > > It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for > the primary key to the > table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique > for each row in the table. > > http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm > http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html > > 1. Common Key Terminology > > Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and > then work through an > example. These terms are: > > * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify > an entity. In a > physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose > value(s) uniquely > identifies a row within a relational table. > * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more > attributes. > * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already > exist in the real world. > For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that > is unique to them (this > isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN > could be used as a > natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming > the scope of your > organization is limited to the U.S.). > * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. > * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have > zero or more candidate > keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't > believe in identifying > candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if > we only interact with > American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type > and the combination of > name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a > second candidate key. > Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to > be chosen as the primary > key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical > data model. > * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. > * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique > identifier of a row > within a table. > * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that > represents a key, either > primary or secondary, in another entity type. > > I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely > the above set of terms. > > Since every key uniquely identifies the row... > > The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the > fewest potential problems, > actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The > word Primary (I assume) was > selected because it is just that. > > As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) > relational model, and in > fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is > verboten in the > relational model. > > As if I care. > > The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real > world and we end up > with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate > keys were invented > because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely > unnecessary to actually use a > natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where > surrogate keys are verboten). > > You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we > wouldn't have surrogate > keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". > > Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which > that metaphor came, > though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself > uneducated! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> <> dependant on data. For db system use only>> >> >> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is >> exactly opposite of what you describe. >> >> John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a > while >> back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or > a >> pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how >> to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, > John >> is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which >> identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. >> >> That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every > row >> (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational >> terms is not a surrogate key. >> >> John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure > that a >> row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then >> more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). >> >> For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a >> pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to > create >> a unique index based on the PK. >> >> He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for >> performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can > lead >> to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the > end >> of the day, it may be required to get the job done. >> >> Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that >> shortcut. >> >> And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name >> change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for >> cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational >> model that says a primary key cannot change. >> >> Jim. From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 15:39:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:39:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> Message-ID: <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> Asgar, <> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is physically stored. That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. <> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. <> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, I don't want to reiterate this discussion but your comment puzzles me. I quite agree that an autonumber is not a primary key, but I would then hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be. So just to get you right I would like to know: Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a unique index on the autonumber field? And also: when implementing a foreign key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the autonumber key? If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then I disagree and we have a point of discussion. If not, I don't get the meaning in your comment. Then you are in accordance with Robert, and I suggest with most of us. The disagreement appears to me to be a matter of wording, or if you prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rls at WeBeDb.com Tue May 31 16:05:39 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:05:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A6AB3D3-7E49-4837-BB59-080EDAA371BE@holly.arvixe.com> Sorry Jim, but as John pointed out, you are not living in the real world. I am NOT going to use a composite natural key for a primary key. Why, well, for the same reason John would not. I am not going to tie up the database doing an update to hundreds of thousands of records if I change the natural key. If I use an IDENTITY (autonumber in MS Access), I never change it and do not have to contend with a cascading update. Check the definitions and then realize that you are talking about a logical model and not a physical implementation of that logical model. The absolute only time a composite natural key is valid for use is in the fact table of a data mart.warehouse. And, except in very rare occasions, depending on they type of dimensions you are building, you might cause an update of data. Head knowledge is nice for some things, but real live experience will beat out that any day. Robert At 02:51 PM 5/31/2011, you wrote: >Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman >Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 >Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > ><dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is >exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while >back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a >pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how >to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John >is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which >identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row >(an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational >terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a >row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then >more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a >pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create >a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for >performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead >to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end >of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that >shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name >change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for >cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational >model that says a primary key cannot change. > >Jim. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 16:08:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:08:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I understand your angst (though I do not participate in your angst). Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split the PK concept into: 1) Pointer 2) Unique index on a selected key. Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique index. Which of course is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) and the unique index can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK goes away. I embrace that with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both and cannot be split into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK is (at least when surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* more importantly, everybody that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception of you) uses word PK in the same manner as I do. Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor creating the unique index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as distinct from and not necessarily related to the pointer between records. >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We must select the pointer, and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were told by the world to call the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. What is Lead? 1) A metal 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. 3) The position out in front. We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. We are doing that here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the pointer and the selected key) the same name and you go ballistic. We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need to participate in the angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in your angst. Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Asgar, > > < hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the > *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> > > Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary > Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals > with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is > physically stored. > > That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one > states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in > database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly > design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table > represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then > all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the > "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a > physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. > > John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", > he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. > > < Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a > unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a foreign > key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto > number key?>> > > Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a > unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might > even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even > though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking > the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. > > But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If > you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. > > < prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a > *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> > > In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a > physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row > uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. > > Jim. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 31 16:22:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 07:22:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE55C1C.26.2762C907@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> So are mine, but I don't use it personally. I'ts Pegasus Mail for me personally - and has been for about 15 years :-) For email automation, I make sure that everything is client neutral, that's why I use things like Blat. -- Stuart On 31 May 2011 at 10:31, Dan Waters wrote: > All my customers are corporate, and they all use Outlook. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? > I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my > current preference being gmail, but there are many others. > > Arthur > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 31 16:31:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 07:31:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't recall you asking how to do this. It would be about an hour to develop a system to do it using a combination of Pegasus Mail, PowerBasic and SQLTools, and Blat. A few hours to do the whole thing as a single standalone application with PB/SQL Tools coding simple POP3 and SMTP client modules in the application. Most of the code required is already available either in the samples that come with the compiler on the forums at wwww.powerbasic.com :-) -- Stuart On 31 May 2011 at 12:36, jwcolby wrote: > Arthur, > > I am setting up an automated system for: > > 1) Receive an email with an Excel attachment > 2) Strip the attachment, create a directory and place the attachment > into it. 3) Create a SQL Server database (temporary) 4) Import a list > of zips in each page of the spreadsheet into a matching table in the > database 5) Count the household / population in those zips 6) generate > an email back out with the counts in the body of the email. > > The objective is that the client sends an email that matches strict > criteria (Count name in the subject, files have count name pattern in > the file name etc) and have the system automatically pick up the email > (pull it into the server), get the attachment and process it. > > I went looking and all I could find for automating GMail was web > crapola, IOW if you wanted to do stuff with it on your web site. I > need it on my server. > > I am not using outlook per se, I am trying to get an object that is a > POP or CDO or whatever. Something that will pull data into a email > store local to my computer that I can manipulate. > > No one spoke up when I asked how to do this. Now everyone has an > opinion. OTOH I have actual running code that does this now, so > opinions at this point do me no good. I already paid to develop this. > > I have a business to run, you know? When I ask and get no response I > go figure it out myself. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 11:13 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using > > Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior > > alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many > > others. > > > > Arthur > > > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, > > jwcolbywrote: > > > >> We are using the free version of Redemption. > >> > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 16:39:27 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:39:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <> Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I understand your angst (though I do not participate in your angst). Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split the PK concept into: 1) Pointer 2) Unique index on a selected key. Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique index. Which of course is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) and the unique index can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK goes away. I embrace that with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both and cannot be split into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK is (at least when surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* more importantly, everybody that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception of you) uses word PK in the same manner as I do. Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor creating the unique index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as distinct from and not necessarily related to the pointer between records. >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We must select the pointer, and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were told by the world to call the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. What is Lead? 1) A metal 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. 3) The position out in front. We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. We are doing that here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the pointer and the selected key) the same name and you go ballistic. We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need to participate in the angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in your angst. Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Asgar, > > < hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the > *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> > > Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary > Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals > with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is > physically stored. > > That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one > states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in > database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly > design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table > represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then > all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the > "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a > physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. > > John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", > he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. > > < Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a > unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a foreign > key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto > number key?>> > > Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a > unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might > even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even > though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking > the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. > > But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If > you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. > > < prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a > *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> > > In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a > physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row > uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 17:13:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 18:13:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DE567EC.8070203@colbyconsulting.com> Sad really. I have an entire system in C# and I am not going to go learn Pegasus mail, Power Basic, SQL Tools and Blat to do one small part of my system. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 5:31 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't recall you asking how to do this. > > It would be about an hour to develop a system to do it using a combination of Pegasus Mail, > PowerBasic and SQLTools, and Blat. > > A few hours to do the whole thing as a single standalone application with PB/SQL Tools > coding simple POP3 and SMTP client modules in the application. Most of the code required > is already available either in the samples that come with the compiler on the forums at > wwww.powerbasic.com :-) > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 17:14:18 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 18:14:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Just trying to get you to a shrink! We'd all be happier. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 5:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < need to participate in the > angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in > your angst.>> > > Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I > understand your angst > (though I do not participate in your angst). > > Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split > the PK concept into: > > 1) Pointer > 2) Unique index on a selected key. > > Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique > index. Which of course > is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) > and the unique index > can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK > goes away. I embrace that > with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! > > We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both > and cannot be split > into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK > is (at least when > surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* > more importantly, everybody > that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception > of you) uses word PK in > the same manner as I do. > > Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. > > Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor > creating the unique > index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as > distinct from and not > necessarily related to the pointer between records. > > >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and > it's the "PK". But > it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. > > Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We > must select the pointer, > and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were > told by the world to call > the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. > > What is Lead? > > 1) A metal > 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. > 3) The position out in front. > > We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. > We are doing that > here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the > pointer and the selected > key) the same name and you go ballistic. > > We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need > to participate in the > angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in > your angst. > > Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Asgar, >> >> <> hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the >> *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> >> >> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary >> Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals >> with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is >> physically stored. >> >> That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one >> states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in >> database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly >> design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table >> represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then >> all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the >> "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a >> physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. >> >> John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number > "PK", >> he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. >> >> <> Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create > a >> unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a > foreign >> key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto >> number key?>> >> >> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a >> unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It > might >> even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" > even >> though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking >> the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. >> >> But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If >> you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. >> >> <> prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a >> *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> >> >> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in > a >> physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row >> uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. >> >> Jim. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 31 20:15:27 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:15:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Yes, it is convenient to use an AutoNumber (or in SQL parlance Identity, or in Oracle parlance Sequence) to uniquely identify rows within a relation. Of course it is, and that's why most of us use it, but is it correct? Actually, I think not, atlthough sometimes it shall suffice: given the case of thousands of eggs hatched by hundreds of chickens daily, it may not make sense to give them Intelligent Keys, but given another case such as serial-numbered automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. I am not on one side or the other of this discussion. Rather, I am on both sides, and can see the sense in both sides of this discussion. When we are discussing eggs, autonumber may seem correct; when discussing fuel injectors, then serial numbers and batch numbers are important, and hence PKs should identify these objects intelligently, not autonumerically. A. On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:14 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Just trying to get you to a shrink! We'd all be happier. > > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 5:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> <> need to participate in the >> angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in >> your angst.>> >> >> Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions >> >> That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I >> understand your angst >> (though I do not participate in your angst). >> >> Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split >> the PK concept into: >> >> 1) Pointer >> 2) Unique index on a selected key. >> >> Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique >> index. Which of course >> is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or >> fields) >> and the unique index >> can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK >> goes away. I embrace that >> with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! >> >> We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is >> both >> and cannot be split >> into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the >> PK >> is (at least when >> surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* >> more importantly, everybody >> that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* >> exception >> of you) uses word PK in >> the same manner as I do. >> >> Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we >> do. >> >> Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, >> nor >> creating the unique >> index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as >> distinct from and not >> necessarily related to the pointer between records. >> >> >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number >> and >> it's the "PK". But >> it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. >> >> Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We >> must select the pointer, >> and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were >> told by the world to call >> the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. >> >> What is Lead? >> >> 1) A metal >> 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. >> 3) The position out in front. >> >> We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same >> word. >> We are doing that >> here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the >> pointer and the selected >> key) the same name and you go ballistic. >> >> We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no >> need >> to participate in the >> angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in >> your angst. >> >> Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >>> Asgar, >>> >>> <>> hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the >>> *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> >>> >>> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary >>> Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals >>> with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is >>> physically stored. >>> >>> That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one >>> states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in >>> database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly >>> design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table >>> represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But >>> then >>> all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's >>> the >>> "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a >>> physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. >>> >>> John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number >>> >> "PK", >> >>> he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. >>> >>> <>> Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then >>> create >>> >> a >> >>> unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a >>> >> foreign >> >>> key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the >>> auto >>> number key?>> >>> >>> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a >>> unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It >>> >> might >> >>> even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" >>> >> even >> >>> though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking >>> the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. >>> >>> But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. >>> If >>> you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. >>> >>> <>> prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a >>> *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> >>> >>> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in >>> >> a >> >>> physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row >>> uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. >>> >>> Jim. >>> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 22:07:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:07:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE5ACFF.3050906@colbyconsulting.com> > I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Hmm... I have to assume that there is some upper class / lower class thing going on here. You apparently count yourself in the upper class. >but given another case such as serial-numbered automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. LOL. No it doesn't. Reality still exists. Comparing a long integer PK to a long integer FK takes a single machine instruction. Comparing a 30 character serial number to another 30 character serial number takes eons (in computer time). Doing so a billion times requires some serious supercomputer power to solve a trivial problem that a surrogate never creates. Apparently some of us have never studied pattern matching algorithms and machine instructions... ;) Surrogates exist for many reasons. One of them is sheer speed. Why on God's green earth would I use a highly efficient surrogate in most cases and yet choose a grossly inefficient natural key just because it is "guaranteed to work and not cause problems" (in this one specific case). If a surrogate key doesn't work, then it should never be used. If it does work, then why would I not use it. Why would I be storing (and indexing) a 30 character string as my PK (and FK) instead of a long integer? Personally I think Codd would cringe at having his name used as a club to win such a silly argument. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 9:15 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you > (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Yes, it is > convenient to use an AutoNumber (or in SQL parlance Identity, or in Oracle > parlance Sequence) to uniquely identify rows within a relation. Of course it > is, and that's why most of us use it, but is it correct? Actually, I think > not, atlthough sometimes it shall suffice: given the case of thousands of > eggs hatched by hundreds of chickens daily, it may not make sense to give > them Intelligent Keys, but given another case such as serial-numbered > automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. > > I am not on one side or the other of this discussion. Rather, I am on both > sides, and can see the sense in both sides of this discussion. When we are > discussing eggs, autonumber may seem correct; when discussing fuel > injectors, then serial numbers and batch numbers are important, and hence > PKs should identify these objects intelligently, not autonumerically. > > A. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 22:37:58 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:37:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cray Unleashes XK6 Supercomputer with AMD's Next-Generation Opteron "Interlagos" and Nvidia Tesla - X-bit labs Message-ID: <4DE5B416.7030903@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, Thinking of you. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20110525224645_Cray_Unleashes_XK6_Supercomputer_with_Next_Generation_Opteron_Interlagos_and_Nvidia_Tesla.html The world needs more natural PKs. ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sun May 1 21:26:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:26:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: All, Background ? Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive. Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. Is there any ?Rule of Thumb? to consider in this decision (such as ?any accdr over X MB should be stored locally?). Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? Thanks, Brad From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 1 21:58:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 22:58:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background ? Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any ?Rule of Thumb? to consider in this decision (such as ?any accdr over X MB should be stored locally?). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 1 22:13:36 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 20:13:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <20110428200959.ZPQC26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <356F885A526D46519BE17F64C1E07317@Seven> Message-ID: <63A8AD328AD54326B33AED5A7B6BD34F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Brad: My recommendations would be to centralize the front-end on a server and download a copy to each station when the user starts the application. As the FE module has no data it should load fast regardless. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 7:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? All, Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? Thanks, Brad From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 1 22:29:47 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:29:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 1 23:10:45 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 14:10:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBE2EC5.16457.E851ED2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Yep, that's what I do as well. -- Stuart On 1 May 2011 at 22:58, jwcolby wrote: > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces > and parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production > directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are > utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > > All, > > > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > > something to do this. > > > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is > > about 20 MB. > > > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that > > each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > > Users? Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the > > local PC?s hard drive. > > > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures > > to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to > > initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > > > Storing the Front End on the local PC?s hard drive would reduce the > > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front > > End are released. > > > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 08:39:13 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 08:39:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 08:49:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 09:49:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Message-ID: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. Normally it is the other way around. The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 2 08:59:44 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:59:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: That's an odd one. Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. Normally it is the other way around. The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 09:13:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:13:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... PBKAC as so often happens. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > That's an odd one. > > Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. > > Lambert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. > > Normally it is the other way around. > > The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 2 09:28:49 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 10:28:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Ah yes. Context is everything. :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... PBKAC as so often happens. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > That's an odd one. > > Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. > > Lambert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. > > Normally it is the other way around. > > The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 10:15:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 11:15:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 In-Reply-To: References: <4DBEB65F.5080606@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBEBC1B.1000505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBECA99.6020306@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, yep. I was looking at code in Excel and simultaneously copying pieces into Access. I got confused where I was inserting the module and inserted it into Excel when I intended to insert it into Access. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 10:28 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah yes. Context is everything. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:14 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 > > Yea, never mind. I was in an Excel module, and inserted another module. Excel knows nothing about database options so... > > PBKAC as so often happens. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:59 AM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> That's an odd one. >> >> Perhaps if you try changing the Database Sort setting. You get at that from the Access windows, not the IDE window. Got to Tools/Options and select the 'General' tab. There's an option there for 'New database sort order'. Hopefully if you change that to something other than 'General' and then change it back again then that will fix the problem. >> >> Lambert >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:49 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 >> >> How do I get the Option Compare Database to be inserted into the modules automatically? For some reason the new modules are coming up with Option Explicit but *not* Option Compare Database. >> >> Normally it is the other way around. >> >> The Tools / Options / Editor / Require variable declaration checkbox is checked. I am not seeing anything anywhere that allows me to set the "compare" option. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 2 11:46:07 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:46:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 12:37:04 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:37:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4dbeebc3.213e970a.73ee.5bc9@mx.google.com> Thanks, I'll look into it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Mon May 2 13:03:54 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:03:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tab control click event In-Reply-To: <88183A49169647A0A40576475839C469@HAL9005> References: <> <032a01cc01b0$c4a1c630$4de55290$@com> <4DB34AC5.14044.33121AEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <038701cc036c$c1856d40$449047c0$@com> <000c01cc038a$e12db120$a3891360$@cox.net> <88183A49169647A0A40576475839C469@HAL9005> Message-ID: <008d01cc08f3$4d6547a0$e82fd6e0$@com> Sorry, guys, just got back from a vacay and didn't see this. I'll try your suggestions. Thanx! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [Spam]8.51 Re: [AccessD] Tab control click event Come to think of it Doug, I did something like that on a tab form where I disappeared the tab and replaced it with a label, which looks nicer, you can format it, and has a Click event where you can do whatever and then set the focus to that page: Me.TabCtl140.Pages(1).SetFocus HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tab control click event Darrell, Why not use buttons to control the tab change and put the refresh code in the button on-click before you change the tab pages? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Tab control click event Howdy. I have a form with a tab control and multiple pages. I have to refresh the table bound to each page as it's clicked. I can do it with the Change event but then you see the table being deleted and refreshed and it looks clunky. What I'd like to do is capture the click or mouse-down event as the user selects a tab so I can do the refresh before the page changes. But none of seem to work. I've put a debug on both the click and mouse-down on the tab control, and on each page control, and I get nothing. Is there some other way of trapping the tab click before it changes? Thx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon May 2 13:41:27 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:41:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com><4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <003701cc08e8$6f9607c0$4ec21740$@comcast.net> Message-ID: All, Thanks for the help and advice. I really appreciate it. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, You could try this autoupdater file: http://www.autofeupdater.com/ It's good for basic updating. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together > something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about > 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each > user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as > "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ________________________________________________________________________ ____ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 2 15:26:34 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 16:26:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> Jim, Mines a little more simplistic then most as I rely on the user to actually execute the batch file, but below is one of the more complex ones I do. The version check is built-into the apps. At startup, I check a local table vs one that is in a copy of the FE up on the server. If the two don't match, I message the user and quit the app. They double click a short cut then to "update", which executes the batch stored on the server in the same location as the "master copy" of the FE. I've meant for a number of years to automate it a little more, but I've found that there is a lot of flexibility in the simplicity of it and just never seem to get around to it. HTH, Jim. ECHO OFF @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Checking for application directories... @ECHO. IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "H:" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%1" == "" GOTO DEFAULT SET HOMEDRIVE=%1 :DEFAULT @ECHO ON %HOMEDRIVE% CD\ @ECHO OFF if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Copying application files... @ECHO. COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.MDE" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.ICO" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\Update.ico" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\vbSendMail.dll" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\XYRLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\IDSLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Setting up environment... @ECHO. "P:\Traverse Custom\SetClientEnv.EXE" TM %HOMEDRIVE% "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom\vbsendmail.dll" /s rem rem Install mswinsck.ocx if local intall. If TS user this has already been done. rem rem rem ************ rem if NOT %HOMEDRIVE% == C: GOTO EXIT COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\mswinsck.ocx" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32" "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\MSWINSCK.OCX" /s :EXIT -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 09:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 15:27:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 16:27:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server - Append records without fail Message-ID: <4DBF13A9.9080503@colbyconsulting.com> In access you can append records into a table and if a given record fails, the rest go in. I use that as a quick and dirty filter sometimes when (for example) appending records from one place to another. AFAICT SQL Server will not append any of the records if any single record fails to append, which has always seemed strange to me. It's almost like an unrequested rollback. Is there any way to make SQL Server accept the appends that will go in and only reject the ones that will not for some reason? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon May 2 15:58:53 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 15:58:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> References: <4DBE1DC6.1000208@colbyconsulting.com> <201105020329.p423Ts1A009008@databaseadvisors.com> <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <7D532D2BFC64431D872633A75C2DE452@XPS> Message-ID: <4dbf1b10.1245960a.1dce.ffffc98a@mx.google.com> Thanks, I appreciate it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 3:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, Mines a little more simplistic then most as I rely on the user to actually execute the batch file, but below is one of the more complex ones I do. The version check is built-into the apps. At startup, I check a local table vs one that is in a copy of the FE up on the server. If the two don't match, I message the user and quit the app. They double click a short cut then to "update", which executes the batch stored on the server in the same location as the "master copy" of the FE. I've meant for a number of years to automate it a little more, but I've found that there is a lot of flexibility in the simplicity of it and just never seem to get around to it. HTH, Jim. ECHO OFF @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Checking for application directories... @ECHO. IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%HOMEDRIVE%" == "H:" SET HOMEDRIVE=C: IF "%1" == "" GOTO DEFAULT SET HOMEDRIVE=%1 :DEFAULT @ECHO ON %HOMEDRIVE% CD\ @ECHO OFF if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files" if not exist "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" mkdir "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Copying application files... @ECHO. COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.MDE" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\TM\TM.ICO" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\Update.ico" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\vbSendMail.dll" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\XYRLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\IDSLogoMenu.BMP" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom" @ECHO. @ECHO. @ECHO Setting up environment... @ECHO. "P:\Traverse Custom\SetClientEnv.EXE" TM %HOMEDRIVE% "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "%HOMEDRIVE%\Program Files\Traverse Custom\vbsendmail.dll" /s rem rem Install mswinsck.ocx if local intall. If TS user this has already been done. rem rem rem ************ rem if NOT %HOMEDRIVE% == C: GOTO EXIT COPY "P:\Traverse Custom\mswinsck.ocx" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32" "C:\Windows\System32\Regsvr32.exe" "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\MSWINSCK.OCX" /s :EXIT -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 09:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 2 19:30:02 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 10:30:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either under the start > programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. cheers Darryl ' **************************************************************************************************** ' Command line parameters. ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. ' This is also used for deriving paths. ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. ' ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client against ' the server version number in the version.txt. ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client along with ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other files to be copied to ' the client be scripted separately in the routine 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. ' ' **************************************************************************************************** Dim FS, FileStream dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, intParCount dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile dim copyTheFile Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) call launcher Set objShell = Nothing set FS = nothing sub launcher() on error resume next set args=wscript.arguments applicationName = args(0) sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder" & applicationName & "\" destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\" & applicationName & "\" ' Read the version text files and compare them. if FS.fileexists(destinationPath & "version.txt") then destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath & "version.txt") sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath & "version.txt") copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) else copyTheFile = true end if if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath & applicationname & ".mde") = false) then copyTheFile = true if copyTheFile then FS.CopyFile sourcePath & applicationName & ".mde", destinationPath FS.CopyFile sourcePath & "version.txt", destinationPath copyOtherSpecifiedFiles end if openFile: ' Run the mde. ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" objShell.Run Chr(34) & progToRun & Chr(34) & " " & Chr(34) & destinationPath & applicationName & ".mde" & Chr(34) end sub 'Read text file function GetFile(FileName) If FileName<>"" Then on error resume Next Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll End If End Function ' Copy other files as specified. function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() end function '------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 2 20:55:42 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 18:55:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. For all the information you may need see the following: http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either under the start > programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. cheers Darryl ' **************************************************************************** ************************ ' Command line parameters. ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. ' This is also used for deriving paths. ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. ' ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client against ' the server version number in the version.txt. ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client along with ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other files to be copied to ' the client be scripted separately in the routine 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. ' ' **************************************************************************** ************************ Dim FS, FileStream dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, intParCount dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile dim copyTheFile Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) call launcher Set objShell = Nothing set FS = nothing sub launcher() on error resume next set args=wscript.arguments applicationName = args(0) sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder" & applicationName & "\" destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\" & applicationName & "\" ' Read the version text files and compare them. if FS.fileexists(destinationPath & "version.txt") then destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath & "version.txt") sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath & "version.txt") copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) else copyTheFile = true end if if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath & applicationname & ".mde") = false) then copyTheFile = true if copyTheFile then FS.CopyFile sourcePath & applicationName & ".mde", destinationPath FS.CopyFile sourcePath & "version.txt", destinationPath copyOtherSpecifiedFiles end if openFile: ' Run the mde. ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" objShell.Run Chr(34) & progToRun & Chr(34) & " " & Chr(34) & destinationPath & applicationName & ".mde" & Chr(34) end sub 'Read text file function GetFile(FileName) If FileName<>"" Then on error resume Next Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll End If End Function ' Copy other files as specified. function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() end function '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you do it? I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. Would someone please post the script. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest happens seamlessly in the background. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and parts is usually faster. I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on the server every time they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and only copy if newer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. > > Currently no change control software, but we could put together something to do this. > > We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 MB. > > We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user can have their own copy of the Front End. > > We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's hard drive. > > Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate the application when it is stored on the file server. > > Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the application initiation time, but this approach would result in more complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are released. > > Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). > > Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? > > Thanks, > Brad > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 2 21:11:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 22:11:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that point you are sharing the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone is in it making it impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that > the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server > (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a > little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and > improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. > > For all the information you may need see the following: > http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 > > When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost > instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. > > This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. > > Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > > Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to > save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file > and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either > under the start> programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the > script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS > Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something > useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. > > cheers > Darryl > > > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > ' Command line parameters. > ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. > ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. > ' This is also used for deriving paths. > ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. > ' > ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client > against > ' the server version number in the version.txt. > ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client > along with > ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde > ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other > files to be copied to > ' the client be scripted separately in the routine > 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. > ' > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > > Dim FS, FileStream > dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, > intParCount > dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile > dim copyTheFile > > Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") > Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) > > call launcher > > Set objShell = Nothing > set FS = nothing > > sub launcher() > on error resume next > set args=wscript.arguments > > applicationName = args(0) > sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder"& applicationName& "\" > destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\"& applicationName& "\" > > ' Read the version text files and compare them. > if FS.fileexists(destinationPath& "version.txt") then > destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath& "version.txt") > sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath& "version.txt") > copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) > else > copyTheFile = true > end if > > if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath& applicationname& ".mde") = false) then > copyTheFile = true > > if copyTheFile then > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& applicationName& ".mde", destinationPath > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& "version.txt", destinationPath > copyOtherSpecifiedFiles > end if > > openFile: > ' Run the mde. > ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) > progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" > objShell.Run Chr(34)& progToRun& Chr(34)& " "& Chr(34)& destinationPath > & applicationName& ".mde"& Chr(34) > end sub > > > 'Read text file > function GetFile(FileName) > If FileName<>"" Then > > on error resume Next > Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) > GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll > End If > End Function > > ' Copy other files as specified. > function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() > end function > '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you > do it? > I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. > Would someone please post the script. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the > local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are > different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and > then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All > they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest > happens seamlessly in the background. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and > parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on > the server every time > they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and > only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. >> >> Currently no change control software, but we could put together something > to do this. >> >> We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 > MB. >> >> We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user > can have their own copy of the Front End. >> >> We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's > hard drive. >> >> Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to > release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate > the application when it is stored on the file server. >> >> Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are > released. >> >> Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any > accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). >> >> Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> >> >> From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 2 23:00:47 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:00:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: Hmmm, I see your concerns. The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed in Access97 so that dates it. :-) The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that point you are sharing the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone is in it making it impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given that > the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server > (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a > little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and > improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. > > For all the information you may need see the following: > http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 > > When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred almost > instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. > > This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot point. > > Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > > Here is the VB Script. I cannot attach it as a vb script so you will have to > save it as a script. You need to have on the server the .mde template file > and the Version No in a separate .txt file. You save this script either > under the start> programs or as a Desktop Icon. The users clicks on the > script to access the database FE. The script does all the work and call MS > Access (or the runtime). I usually change the VB Script icon to something > useful for the users. Anyway, this should get you close to what you need. > > cheers > Darryl > > > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > ' Command line parameters. > ' Parameter 1 : Application name. Excludes .mde extension. > ' Written as args(0) to applicationName. > ' This is also used for deriving paths. > ' Ensure that this is identical for the script to run. > ' > ' The script will test the version number in the version.txt on the client > against > ' the server version number in the version.txt. > ' If the version is different it will copy the server version to the client > along with > ' the version.txt file. If it is the same then it will run the client .mde > ' Note : 'IT IS&O Client Integration Services' has required that any other > files to be copied to > ' the client be scripted separately in the routine > 'copyOtherSpecifiedFiles()' at the end of the script. > ' > ' > **************************************************************************** > ************************ > > Dim FS, FileStream > dim sourceFullFileName, sourcePath, destinationPath, applicationName, > intParCount > dim sourceTxtVersionFile, destTxtVersionFile > dim copyTheFile > > Set FS = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") > Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject( "WScript.Shell" ) > > call launcher > > Set objShell = Nothing > set FS = nothing > > sub launcher() > on error resume next > set args=wscript.arguments > > applicationName = args(0) > sourcePath = "\\MyServer\MyFolder\MySubFolder"& applicationName& "\" > destinationPath = "C:\Program Files\INT\"& applicationName& "\" > > ' Read the version text files and compare them. > if FS.fileexists(destinationPath& "version.txt") then > destTxtVersionFile = GetFile(destinationPath& "version.txt") > sourceTxtVersionFile = GetFile(sourcePath& "version.txt") > copyTheFile = not (destTxtVersionFile = sourceTxtVersionFile) > else > copyTheFile = true > end if > > if (FS.fileexists(destinationPath& applicationname& ".mde") = false) then > copyTheFile = true > > if copyTheFile then > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& applicationName& ".mde", destinationPath > FS.CopyFile sourcePath& "version.txt", destinationPath > copyOtherSpecifiedFiles > end if > > openFile: > ' Run the mde. > ' Need to update this path if running OFFICE 2007+ (Office12) > progToRun = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE" > objShell.Run Chr(34)& progToRun& Chr(34)& " "& Chr(34)& destinationPath > & applicationName& ".mde"& Chr(34) > end sub > > > 'Read text file > function GetFile(FileName) > If FileName<>"" Then > > on error resume Next > Set FileStream = FS.OpenTextFile(FileName) > GetFile = FileStream.ReadAll > End If > End Function > > ' Copy other files as specified. > function copyOtherSpecifiedFiles() > end function > '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 11:39 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I've heard about this and I know it's the preferred method. But how do you > do it? > I've played around with batch files but I still can't seem to get it right. > Would someone please post the script. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > This is the same approach I use. A script checks the version number of the > local FE vs the expected FE version no stored on the server. If they are > different it automatically removes the local FE and downloads a new one and > then opens it. The user never even knows about the update process. All > they do is double click on the database FE icon as usual and the rest > happens seamlessly in the background. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 12:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > I place them on the local PC simply because the time to get the pieces and > parts is usually faster. > > I use a batch file which just copies the FE from a production directory on > the server every time > they open the fe, but there are utilities that check for the version and > only copy if newer. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/1/2011 10:26 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> Background - Small firm, approximately 25 PCs. >> >> Currently no change control software, but we could put together something > to do this. >> >> We have an Access 2007 application that has a Front End that is about 20 > MB. >> >> We have set up a folder for each user on the file server so that each user > can have their own copy of the Front End. >> >> We are debating whether we should store the Front End in each of the > Users' Folders on the File server or store the Front End on the local PC's > hard drive. >> >> Storing the Front End on the file server simplifies our procedures to > release new versions, but it appears to takes several seconds to initiate > the application when it is stored on the file server. >> >> Storing the Front End on the local PC's hard drive would reduce the > application initiation time, but this approach would result in more > complicated procedures when new versions of the application Front End are > released. >> >> Is there any "Rule of Thumb" to consider in this decision (such as "any > accdr over X MB should be stored locally"). >> >> Are there other issues that we need to keep in mind? >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 3 05:44:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 06:44:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is > locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) > Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the > clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on > to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server >> (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a >> little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue May 3 09:27:12 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 07:27:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. Charlotte Foust On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code below. > RTE is a long var. > code generates no errors up to the last line. > I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > any ideas?? > > > > 'populate the object variables > Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > CONNECT_STR) > conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) > DoEvents > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From RRANTHON at sentara.com Tue May 3 11:00:21 2011 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (RANDALL R ANTHONY) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 12:00:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Off the top of my head... Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. Charlotte Foust On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code below. > RTE is a long var. > code generates no errors up to the last line. > I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > any ideas?? > > > > 'populate the object variables > Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > CONNECT_STR) > conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) > DoEvents > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue May 3 11:12:47 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:12:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to specify the > name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ?Someone else can > correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) >> DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 13:05:20 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:05:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Thanks again to all. dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, just a number that I know is good.... RTE is a long var. "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 The code generates no errors up to the last line. I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. Sure would like to figure this out.. Latest Code - not working: CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName 'populate the object variables Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, CONNECT_STR) conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ? > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >> True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From RRANTHON at sentara.com Tue May 3 13:12:50 2011 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (RANDALL R ANTHONY) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:12:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <201105031812.p43ICuxx025070@databaseadvisors.com> Dumb question, does the user account you're passing have EXEC permissions on the SQL end? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Thanks again to all. dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, just a number that I know is good.... RTE is a long var. "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 The code generates no errors up to the last line. I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. Sure would like to figure this out.. Latest Code - not working: CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName 'populate the object variables Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, CONNECT_STR) conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if you get the same error. Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY wrote: > Off the top of my head... > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter for an SP. > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in some manner. > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. ? > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > Charlotte Foust > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > below. >> RTE is a long var. >> code generates no errors up to the last line. >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >> >> any ideas?? >> >> >> >> 'populate the object variables >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >> True, >> CONNECT_STR) >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 >> >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 13:49:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:49:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? In-Reply-To: <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4dbeb404.c84dec0a.2d40.ffffaec6@mx.google.com> <201105030031.p430V32e022544@databaseadvisors.com> <4DBF643A.7060407@colbyconsulting.com> <4DBFDC7B.7050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <99DF528B39914B08877C18911D346A83@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE is > locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called WAIT.) > Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to the > clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to actually log on > to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the server >> (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, make it just a >> little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue May 3 14:16:11 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 07:16:11 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a variable, >just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) >DoEvents >conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I wonder >if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name without the >parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the parameter and seeing if >you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >> Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >> True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 3 14:36:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:36:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Message-ID: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 15:29:21 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:29:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 3 15:49:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 06:49:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> Message-ID: <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If the parameter in the sp is some sort of string, as suggested by '" & "M" & "'", try conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & Trim$(RTE) & "'" i.e. embed RTE in single quotes and trim the leading space placeholder for "+/-" -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 11:05, b heygood wrote: > 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 3 15:55:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 06:55:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net>, <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Horsepucky. Most of my larger sites use Enterprise Licensing. All of their copies of Access have the same licence. -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 13:29, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized > that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different > license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 3 16:12:19 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:12:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? In-Reply-To: <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <006201cc09c9$76107bd0$62317370$@comcast.net> <857C8B4015744074992B14809E75ED1D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DC06BC2.24152.17435C5C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <30A7B783CEB84966AF681BA1C6B4EC84@creativesystemdesigns.com> You are emphasizing " Enterprise Licensing " which rarely the situation when I come on site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Horsepucky. Most of my larger sites use Enterprise Licensing. All of their copies of Access have the same licence. -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 13:29, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized > that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different > license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 16:38:56 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:38:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, , <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <4DC06A60.13467.173DF7EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <7243B4E2C72C458880EED1AC43BF9419@Seven> no, the parameter is a long integer. I just was trying various..... thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server If the parameter in the sp is some sort of string, as suggested by '" & "M" & "'", try conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & Trim$(RTE) & "'" i.e. embed RTE in single quotes and trim the leading space placeholder for "+/-" -- Stuart On 3 May 2011 at 11:05, b heygood wrote: > 'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 3 16:40:57 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:40:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 3 16:48:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:48:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Transactions in Access Message-ID: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> Hi Jim, This is the code for transactions in Access. This shows just one procedure, where two different tables are affected. If your code is running through several procedures, where a total of 2 or more table operations are performed, then the transactions code should 'encapsulate' all of those procedures. If you are only performing an operation on one table, then your normal error handling method can pick up on that. A caveat - transactions will rollback where you are executing a SQL string (or using DoCmd.RunSQL), but not when you are changing values in a form, and not if you are changing values using a recordset. So, you must not have those data-changing operations within the code that is encapsulated by ws.BeginTrans and ws.EndTrans. I had to do a little 'refactoring', but it worked out. In addition, this will speed up your system. What happens is that none of the changes are actually 'committed' until you reach the ws.CommitTrans method, so a committed data change is done only once. So transactions can also be used as a method to speed up your application where you have multiple discrete table operations in a single code execution sequence. For Access transactions, the help files were pretty good. Hope this helps! '------------------------- Sub XXX Dim ws As Workspace '-- Some code Set ws = DBEngine(0) ws.BeginTrans On Error GoTo EH ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "DELETE ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "INSERT ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ws.CommitTrans dbForceOSFlush On Error GoTo 0 '-- More code XH: '-- Exit Here Set ws = Nothing Exit sub EH: '-- Error Handler ws.Rollback Call RollbackErrorMessage '-- Optional Resume XH End Sub '------------------------- Public Sub RollbackErrorMessage() Dim stgPrompt As String stgPrompt = "The action you just took was cancelled because the data changes could not be saved to the server. No changes have been saved - wait a few seconds and try again." _ & vbNewLine & vbNewLine _ & "This probably happened due to a multi-user data change conflict, but might have happened due to an error. If this happens frequently, contact your System Administrator.@ @" FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, stgPrompt, vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "No Changes Saved" Exit Sub ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Sub '------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue May 3 17:22:01 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 15:22:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> Message-ID: Bob, you might have already mentioned this, but... Can you open the query from the F11/database window? Does Access prompt you for the parameter? On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 PM, b heygood wrote: > no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything > to test. > No, just one parameter. > thx for responding. > > > bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > Bob, > > You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " > conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? > > If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to > the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. > Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. > Does it have more than 1 parameter? > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > New Zealand > > > > > At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: > >Thanks again to all. > > > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a > >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > > > >RTE is a long var. > >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 > >The code generates no errors up to the last line. > >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >Sure would like to figure this out.. > > > >Latest Code - not working: > > > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & > >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > > > >'populate the object variables > >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >True, > >CONNECT_STR) > >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute > >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" > >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > > > > >Bob Heygood > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly > >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't > recall. > >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I > >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name > >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the > >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > > > >wrote: > > > Off the top of my head... > > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > > parameter > >for an SP. > > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > > in > >some manner. > > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" > wrote: > > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > > >> code > > > below. > > >> RTE is a long var. > > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > >> > > >> any ideas?? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 'populate the object variables > > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > > >> CONNECT_STR) > > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > >> > > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 3 18:06:19 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:06:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> Message-ID: <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Thu May 5 09:45:38 2011 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (b heygood) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 07:45:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com><201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com><1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> Yes, the sp works on the server. I am checking on my user security level, tho my attachment / linking of tables is using the same user/pass data and successful. Sure would like to figure this out. thx to all who responded. Bob Heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything to test. No, just one parameter. thx for responding. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server Bob, You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. Does it have more than 1 parameter? David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd New Zealand At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Thanks again to all. > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > >RTE is a long var. >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 >The code generates no errors up to the last line. >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. >Sure would like to figure this out.. > >Latest Code - not working: > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > >'populate the object variables >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, >True, >CONNECT_STR) >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't recall. >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > >Charlotte Foust > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > >wrote: > > Off the top of my head... > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > parameter >for an SP. > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > in >some manner. > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > >> code > > below. > >> RTE is a long var. > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >> > >> any ideas?? > >> > >> > >> > >> 'populate the object variables > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > >> CONNECT_STR) > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > >> > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 13:05:26 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:05:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) Message-ID: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> I work for Gwen, primarily doing genealogy. When there are computer issues while I'm here, she has me troubleshoot them too. Last week, day after her husband was burned over 27% of her body, one of her two printers broke and I had to run to store and get another. Old one HP OfficeJet Pro 8500, new one the next newer model, HP OfficeJet Pro 8500A. Even though mostly identical, the default name of old one in list of printers has a 909 in it and the new one has a 910 in it. Can't give you exact as I'm upstairs in my office and that computer/printer combo is downstairs in living room. I don't believe it's pertinent anyway. Point is they are almost identical. Now, on to the problem. Old database, I think originally Access 2000. Not a very professionally done one, but it works. Tons of names/addresses. More than a dozen reports for envelopes alone as there are different font, return address, and envelope size combinations for different purposes. Trying to print one gives a message to the effect of this was formatted for abc printer which isn't available do you want to print to default printer. After doing a bunch of Googling, I successfully opened one of the reports in design view, which along the way asked about the printer and I chose the new printer. Then saved the report. I can now print - HOWEVER. #10 envelope, it used to be: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| But now it's printing 3 envelopes like this -------------| Printing | | | | | | | | -------------| Then Addressee on next envelope and then a blank one. All I did was change the printer, so why did it change the orientation? How do I fix the whole db without having to change each report separately? I found a bunch of pages that talk about changing printers programmatically and other terms but they were all beyond my kindergarten skills of access. I'm fairly decent except when it comes to the visual basic stuff. Tables, queries using drag/drop, reports, I'm ok with, but not code. So remember that when you help. I can send a copy of the database if that would help, but of course you don't have our printers. It's 11am my time, I leave for home at 3pm (not back until Monday). Gwen's desperate as she has lots of envelopes to print to mail updates on husband's condition to those without email (he's in first skin graft surgery as I write). Handwriting them not an option as she's got post-polio and writing that many envelopes is problematic. Here's hoping one of you has a quick solution I can understand and act on. -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Thu May 5 15:05:00 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 08:05:00 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197D693FFB@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <201105031600.p43G0Rrg021810@databaseadvisors.com> <1D4F72C6BB81471DA09A0B4A26367A6D@Seven> <20110503191657.XZUX4106.mta03.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <4B036C600423488682E5C0B84A92C4CD@Seven> <00b301cc09e6$bd0b8a80$37229f80$@cox.net> <4E4653AD4F23495C943764A3C06B9C52@Seven> Message-ID: <20110505200732.EUZ26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Bob, Have you tried running any other stored procedures using your code (even creating a simple one with no parameters)? David At 6/05/2011, b heygood wrote: >Yes, the sp works on the server. > >I am checking on my user security level, tho my attachment / linking of >tables is using the same user/pass data and successful. > >Sure would like to figure this out. > >thx to all who responded. > >Bob Heygood > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:06 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >Just a dumb thought but does the SP work if you test it on the server? > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of b heygood >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:41 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >no the PurgeOld.... is some code I used before. again just trying anything >to test. >No, just one parameter. >thx for responding. > > >bob > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > >Bob, > >You say that the last line is where it falls over. Does the " >conTest.Execute "EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" " line work? > >If so then it would indicate that it is not the connection but the call to >the sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute procedure that is the problem. >Basic stuff but have you double checked the name of the stored procedure. >Does it have more than 1 parameter? > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >New Zealand > > > > >At 4/05/2011, b heygood wrote: > >Thanks again to all. > > > >dropping the parameter does no differently, not does not using a > >variable, just a number that I know is good.... > > > >RTE is a long var. > >"ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 > >The code generates no errors up to the last line. > >I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > >Sure would like to figure this out.. > > > >Latest Code - not working: > > > >CONNECT_STR = "ODBC;DSN=" & DSNName & ";UID=" & strSQLUser & ";PWD=" & > >strSQLPassword & ";DATABASE = " & DSNName > > > >'populate the object variables > >Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) > >Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", dbDriverNoPrompt, > >True, > >CONNECT_STR) > >conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > > >'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents conTest.Execute > >"EXEC PurgeOldServiceData '" & 11 & "'" > >'conTest.Execute "sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute '" & "M" & "'" > >conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute " & RTE > > > > > >Bob Heygood > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:13 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > >The problem may be that trying to concatenate the parameter on the fly > >doesn't work. It's been so long since I used 97 that I simply don't >recall. > >If adding a space to the string before the parameter isn't working, I > >wonder if it's because the EXEC is trying to run the root sp name > >without the parameter. I suppose you could test by dropping the > >parameter and seeing if you get the same error. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:00 AM, RANDALL R ANTHONY > > > >wrote: > > > Off the top of my head... > > > Exec sp_name 123 is the syntax for executing/passing one number > > > parameter > >for an SP. > > > Maybe your line needs to have the variable inside the double quotes > > > in > >some manner. > > > conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 10:27 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A97 SQL Server > > > > > > It's been a long time, but I don't think it will work to try to > > > specify the name of the stored procedure using a variable like that. > > > Someone else can correct me if I'm having a senior moment. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > On Apr 28, 2011 8:19 AM, "b heygood" wrote: > > >> having a "ODBC - Call failed" message from A97 when running the > > >> code > > > below. > > >> RTE is a long var. > > >> code generates no errors up to the last line. > > >> I can link to tables using the log on info and password successfully. > > >> > > >> any ideas?? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 'populate the object variables > > >> Set wkTest = CreateWorkspace("ODBCWorkspace", "admin", "", > > >> dbUseODBC) Set conTest = wkTest.OpenConnection("CONNECTION", > > >> dbDriverNoPrompt, True, > > >> CONNECT_STR) > > >> conTest.QueryTimeout = 0 > > >> > > >> 'Execute the stored procedure (SQL Server 7.0) DoEvents > > >> conTest.Execute "EXEC sp_Add_FutureServicesOrders_byRoute" & RTE > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 15:10:27 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:10:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> Message-ID: <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> Making progress. It looks like I will ultimately have to take care of things one report at a time, but that's doable. I can get the printer and the orientation to stick. That issue turned out to be that I have to save the report itself. Saving the database doesn't save the change in the report. However, there is still something wrong. Instead of printing this: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| It's eliminating the Return address and printing the Addressee at the top of the envelope like this: -----------------------| Addressee | | -----------------------| I didn't change anything on the layout itself, so don't know why that's happening. The only difference in the way the envelope goes in the printer is that it goes in the tray this way -------------| \ | \ | \ | \ | / | / | / | / | -------------| Instead of this way -------------| /| / | / | / | \ | \ | \ | \| -------------| On OT, John B suggested "Personally, since it's just a standard #10 envelope report, I'd just start over and create a new report to work with any printer". But I can't figure out how to make a new report based on a standard envelope. Haven't found a place to say "make a report based on #10". I always have to set the sizes of the page by dragging the margins, etc and futz around with it. How do you do it? I'd love to have a quick/easy way to do it, especially since I not only have the #10's but some A9's and A8's as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope#North_American_sizes -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu May 5 15:33:21 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:33:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <003a01cc0b60$7b69f7d0$723de770$@rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Kathryn To set the layout to a #10 envelope, open a new report in design mode and select Page Setup from the File menu (I'm doing this in Access 2002, but A97 was the same AFIR). >From there select the Page tab, and choose #10 from the Paper Size combo. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 4:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) Making progress. It looks like I will ultimately have to take care of things one report at a time, but that's doable. I can get the printer and the orientation to stick. That issue turned out to be that I have to save the report itself. Saving the database doesn't save the change in the report. However, there is still something wrong. Instead of printing this: -----------------------| Return | Addressee | -----------------------| It's eliminating the Return address and printing the Addressee at the top of the envelope like this: -----------------------| Addressee | | -----------------------| I didn't change anything on the layout itself, so don't know why that's happening. The only difference in the way the envelope goes in the printer is that it goes in the tray this way -------------| \ | \ | \ | \ | / | / | / | / | -------------| Instead of this way -------------| /| / | / | / | \ | \ | \ | \| -------------| On OT, John B suggested "Personally, since it's just a standard #10 envelope report, I'd just start over and create a new report to work with any printer". But I can't figure out how to make a new report based on a standard envelope. Haven't found a place to say "make a report based on #10". I always have to set the sizes of the page by dragging the margins, etc and futz around with it. How do you do it? I'd love to have a quick/easy way to do it, especially since I not only have the #10's but some A9's and A8's as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope#North_American_sizes -- Kathryn Bassett kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (work) kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Thu May 5 16:36:14 2011 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (Kathryn At Gwen's) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:36:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> Message-ID: <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but at least she'll be able to print them. -- Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 5 17:43:47 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 15:43:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> Check your margins. It sounds like the margin is set wider than the print stock so your getting an extra page. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but at least she'll be able to print them. -- Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Thu May 5 21:35:09 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:35:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) In-Reply-To: <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> References: <002401cc0b4f$050d9580$0f28c080$@rr.com> <004001cc0b6c$772e7a90$658b6fb0$@rr.com> <002801cc0b75$ebb41ab0$c31c5010$@cox.net> Message-ID: <007801cc0b96$383b92d0$a8b2b870$@net> I thought about that but the page setting is for #10 envelope. In properties, there's no place for margins. I tightened up things even with that, and it still didn't make a difference. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 3:44 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) > > Check your margins. It sounds like the margin is set wider than the print > stock so your getting an extra page. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn At Gwen's > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 2:36 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Urgenet need re new printer (2007) > > More progress. Got the envelopes printing correctly, but a blank envelope > for every printed envelope. May not have time to fix that until Monday, but > at least she'll be able to print them. > > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (for Gwen Babcock) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 5 21:58:04 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:58:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Transactions in Access In-Reply-To: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> References: <007e01cc09db$e75b4d30$b611e790$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6AB8C63AF3C746518109B00DCE9EF845@creativesystemdesigns.com> Well Dan: I just keep learning things... Thanks for the information. Whether this knowledge finds a place in the old tool box we will have to wait and see. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Transactions in Access Hi Jim, This is the code for transactions in Access. This shows just one procedure, where two different tables are affected. If your code is running through several procedures, where a total of 2 or more table operations are performed, then the transactions code should 'encapsulate' all of those procedures. If you are only performing an operation on one table, then your normal error handling method can pick up on that. A caveat - transactions will rollback where you are executing a SQL string (or using DoCmd.RunSQL), but not when you are changing values in a form, and not if you are changing values using a recordset. So, you must not have those data-changing operations within the code that is encapsulated by ws.BeginTrans and ws.EndTrans. I had to do a little 'refactoring', but it worked out. In addition, this will speed up your system. What happens is that none of the changes are actually 'committed' until you reach the ws.CommitTrans method, so a committed data change is done only once. So transactions can also be used as a method to speed up your application where you have multiple discrete table operations in a single code execution sequence. For Access transactions, the help files were pretty good. Hope this helps! '------------------------- Sub XXX Dim ws As Workspace '-- Some code Set ws = DBEngine(0) ws.BeginTrans On Error GoTo EH ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "DELETE ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ... Create, Delete, or Update stg = "INSERT ..." DBEngine(0)(0).Execute stg ws.CommitTrans dbForceOSFlush On Error GoTo 0 '-- More code XH: '-- Exit Here Set ws = Nothing Exit sub EH: '-- Error Handler ws.Rollback Call RollbackErrorMessage '-- Optional Resume XH End Sub '------------------------- Public Sub RollbackErrorMessage() Dim stgPrompt As String stgPrompt = "The action you just took was cancelled because the data changes could not be saved to the server. No changes have been saved - wait a few seconds and try again." _ & vbNewLine & vbNewLine _ & "This probably happened due to a multi-user data change conflict, but might have happened due to an error. If this happens frequently, contact your System Administrator.@ @" FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, stgPrompt, vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "No Changes Saved" Exit Sub ErrEx.Bookmark = BOOKMARK_ONERROR End Sub '------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Just a note; when I was describing this I might not have emphasized that each copy of MS Access, on each station should be a different license. This has nothing to do with FE or BE applications. I personally like to use MS Access for just its unsurpassed presentation capabilities but prefer to secure most other functionality on a reliable MS SQL server which immediately gives unsurpassed security and extended remote capabilities as well. And then can lead to the eventual migration to a web interface. I use ADO-OLE connections for Access to MS SQL and simply had no idea that multi-level transaction management was even possible with basic Access. Show me some code. " And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2 " ...that's good to know. I have had a few issues on sites but only ones that have matched the site setup as described. (Or is built on a MS SBS with real-time station desktop management turned on... this is where the desktops are stored under each user profile, on the server and is being updated on regular intervals. When the system is under load it results in the bound FE to time-out and disconnects from its BE...very ugly.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is Access a Bad Program? Jim, I have to step in and disagree with you (I think). I, and many other people on this list, manage systems that have multiple Access applications (clients) using table links all to the same Access database (server). An Access application is an .mdb file which contains table links (usually), forms, reports, modules, macros, and queries. An Access database is tables only. Only very rarely have I experienced corruption in this type of system, and only when the server was having problems. If you're discussing having multiple people using the same Access app (FE) at the same time, there's no need for that discussion. It won't work, and if Access is set up correctly it won't be set up that way. For SQL Server, with an Access app, you would not put reports, modules, and extended coding there. Tables, stored procedures, views, UDF's - yes. Also, an Access app does do transactions, and rather elegantly, so I use them where appropriate. And I think you can create SQL Server Reports in SQL Server Express 2008 R2. If what you are describing is actually happening, they you're using Access incorrectly in some way, or on a network with poor hardware, or on a badly configured network. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Hi John: I agree with you observations. The BE will always corrupt if used by multiple users, but only in certain cases. The most common scenario is if there is more than one copy of MS Access base running on the network. If the FE modules are then bound to the BE, their activities are tracked by a couple values. One of those values is MS Access's product code number, so the lock file system does not distinguish between the connections of two or more FEs and you can see where that is heading. Unexplained crashes and data corruption. Of course a person could try to simply use an unbound set of forms but that will also lead in to another group of problems as a MDB database will be with any real record locking or protection against multiple users access of the same record. That again can lead to data lost and record corruption of which you have so eloquently described over the years. Now if we move to a real SQL BE, those issues are moot. These ACID (atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability) BE databases handle all multi-users using multi-records or even the same records all without any problems. Most of the business logic (queries, reports, modules and extended coding etc.) can be stored there as well. And then the ability to handle transactions is an awesome feature beyond anything designed in an MDB. The final reason for not migrating to MS SQL is also a non-issue as a Free MS SQL Express is there for all to use. (Note: MS SQL Express does not have report building capabilities but a reports can built in its big brother and imported.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 3:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? Jim, I know that you likely understand all of these issues, I am just writing them up for the benefit of any of our list members who might not. I see from this email that you are specifically discussing a "script:" and thus are discussing a "copy to local drive" system. If you were discussing actually using the FE from the RAM disk, the problems are as follows: 1) Access doesn't load "the *entire* file" or "the *entire* FE", it loads whatever piece it is using at this instant. For example it may open a switchboard and some code modules to get started. Access thus asks the file store to go get specific pieces of the file which are those pieces. Later the FE is running and the user opens a form. DAO asks the file store to go get the specific pieces of the file which are the form, and perhaps a stored query etc. In order to do all of this, Access creates the LDB (the lock database) and holds the LDB open with entries for itself, for as long as Access is working in the FE. IOW it "locks" the FE (or pieces). It is quite possible for multiple users to hold locks in the LDB at the same time, this is what happens when the users access the BE. While this does work, the problem is threefold. 1) temp tables in the FE suddenly become multi-user 2) Writes to the FE (rare, I understand) can corrupt the file if the write is interrupted (bad nic / cable / user) 3) Because of the locks, it is impossible to update the FE with a new version if anyone is in the FE. OTOH if you are just discussing loading the FE from the ram disk into a directory in the local disk and opening it from there, all of these problems disappear. I have a client where something happens on a regular basis to corrupt the BE. We have never identified what the problem is but in such cases, you would likely end up with corrupt FEs as well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/3/2011 12:00 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Hmmm, I see your concerns. > > The FE is not running from the RAM disk it is just loading from it and that > is quite a different thing. In most cases the FE, loads once a day, maximum. > The actual package runs on the individual stations. Of course the FE > is locked on the server when someone is working on it and so it should be. > > I have had this working for years, on a product that was originally designed > in Access97 so that dates it. :-) > > The only problem that the script had to resolve was when there are two > people trying to grab the FE from the server at the same time. Then > the code > would wait a couple of seconds and tries again and keeps looping until > resolution or until 10 tries and then it fall through and it then fails. (I > used a piece of code from the original Norton's command apps called > WAIT.) Under normal conditions I have never had a failure. > > But for some reason I have never used it with another client...the > speed of > transfer from today's servers has always been more than acceptable to > the clients. It always does take a few moments for the user to > actually log on to the MS SQL Server data source anyway. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 7:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Store accdr File Locally or on a File Server? > > Not so, if you are talking about loading the FE from the ram disk. At that > point you are sharing > the Fe which is bad news. Not to mention that the FE is locked while anyone > is in it making it > impossible to update with the latest version if anyone is in the Fe. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/2/2011 9:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> When loading a crucial file, from the server to all stations and >> given > that >> the transfer has to be fast, create a shareable RAM disk on the >> server (default is drive Z), assign the appropriate drive letter, >> make it just a little bigger than size of the FE (allowing room for >> expansion and >> improvements) and load the latest FE into the memory drive. >> >> For all the information you may need see the following: >> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ramdisk-guide-131 >> >> When workstations log in, the latest version of the FE is transferred > almost >> instantly especially if you have a GBit LAN. >> >> This makes the whole issue of whether to store the FE locally a moot > point. >> >> Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 08:51:13 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:51:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized Message-ID: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Hi, I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is resized. I have this code, on a test form. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Dim mbUnloading As Boolean Private Sub Form_Load() Debug.Print "Load" End Sub Private Sub Form_Resize() If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub Debug.Print "Resize" End Sub Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) Debug.Print "Unloading" mbUnloading = True End Sub The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times instead of twice? In fact, since multiple clicks of the command button that maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: Private Sub Form_Load() DoCmd.Maximize End Sub From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 6 12:27:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:27:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form is reopened. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > Hi, > > I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is > resized. I have this code, on a test form. > > Option Compare Database > Option Explicit > Dim mbUnloading As Boolean > > Private Sub Form_Load() > ? ? Debug.Print "Load" > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Resize() > ? ? If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub > ? ? Debug.Print "Resize" > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) > ? ? Debug.Print "Unloading" > ? ? mbUnloading = True > End Sub > > > The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the > form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the > resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. > But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word > "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is > running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? > > Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had > last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on > form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button > click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why > Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times > instead of twice? In fact, ?since multiple clicks of the command button that > maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me > that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should > be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: > ? ? ? ?Private Sub Form_Load() > ? ? ? ? ? ? DoCmd.Maximize > ? ? ? ?End Sub > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 16:17:31 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:17:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Charlotte .... I do not follow you. Since the application is calling the event an indeterminate number of times I don't know where to set the variable to True. And where to set it to False. I want the procedures to run once on Form Load and then again only any time the user changes the form size by any means EXCEPT merely deactivating and reactivating the form. I have struggled with this for hours. I did have a IgnoreResize variable which I would set to true in the Load event.... and then set to False before exiting Resize event. but because it passes through resize event up to three times when form is maxed then some unwanted repetitions happen. I think some of my code inside the Resize event that is altering the insidewidth, optimizing widths of certain controls, and proportioning distances between some controls is causing Resize to get called again. Not sure...very hard to debug. For example I use CreateForm to create a hidden form with a label that I can SizeToFit to assist with determining the optimal width of some controls on my other form that got resized by the user or on Load. This causes my main form to be deactivated I suppose, triggering the Resize event on the main form. Again ....hard to know what the code is doing to form focuses in the runtime because I can't get the same behaviors I'm debug mode than when not debugging. I am soon to skip the whole resize event and add a button for optimizing form insidewidth and the position of controls. I am just too inexperienced and impatient. On May 6, 2011 1:29 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: > Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last > window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes > through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading > variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set > when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where > you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. > Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form > is reopened. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) > wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is >> resized. I have this code, on a test form. >> >> Option Compare Database >> Option Explicit >> Dim mbUnloading As Boolean >> >> Private Sub Form_Load() >> Debug.Print "Load" >> End Sub >> >> Private Sub Form_Resize() >> If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub >> Debug.Print "Resize" >> End Sub >> >> Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) >> Debug.Print "Unloading" >> mbUnloading = True >> End Sub >> >> >> The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the >> form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the >> resize event is called only once according to the immediate window results. >> But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word >> "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is >> running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? >> >> Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form had >> last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times on >> form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a button >> click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why >> Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times >> instead of twice? In fact, since multiple clicks of the command button that >> maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to me >> that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize should >> be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: >> Private Sub Form_Load() >> DoCmd.Maximize >> End Sub >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Fri May 6 17:00:44 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:00:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Message-ID: Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From vbacreations at gmail.com Fri May 6 17:53:53 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 18:53:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 6 19:50:19 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:50:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Event / maximized In-Reply-To: References: <001801cc0bf4$aa7c9980$ff75cc80$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Set the variable to False in the Open event, then set it to true in the resize event. Test for the value in the resize event and if it's false, run the code and set it to true. Is that clearer? I'm assuming you only want to call this when the form first loads, not if the user resizes it. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:17 PM, William Benson wrote: > Hi Charlotte .... > I do not follow you. Since the application is calling the event an > indeterminate number of times I don't know where to set the variable to > True. And where to set it to False. > > I want the procedures to run once on Form Load and then again only any time > the user changes the form size by any means EXCEPT merely deactivating and > reactivating the form. > > I have struggled with this for hours. I did have a IgnoreResize variable > which I would set to true in the Load event.... and then set to False before > exiting Resize event. but because it passes through resize event up to three > times when form is maxed then some unwanted repetitions happen. > > I think some of my code inside the Resize event that is altering the > insidewidth, optimizing widths of certain controls, and proportioning > distances between some controls is causing Resize to get called again. Not > sure...very hard to debug. For example I use CreateForm to create a hidden > form with a label that I can SizeToFit to assist with determining the > optimal width of some controls on my other form that got resized by the user > or on Load. This causes my main form to be deactivated I suppose, triggering > the Resize event on the main form. Again ....hard to know what the code is > doing to form focuses in the runtime because I can't get the same behaviors > I'm debug mode than when not debugging. > > I am soon to skip the whole resize event and add a button for optimizing > form insidewidth and the position of controls. I am just too inexperienced > and impatient. > On May 6, 2011 1:29 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: >> Resize may fire more than once, because it DOES remember the last >> window setting but it doesn't go straight to that setting. It passes >> through other settings to get there. In addition to your unloading >> variable, you need a resize variable at the form level that you set >> when you open the form. Test for the variable in the routine where >> you want to run you code, and only run it if the variable is false. >> Set the variable to true and your code won't run again until the form >> is reopened. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:51 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have been playing with some code which is meant to run when a form is >>> resized. I have this code, on a test form. >>> >>> Option Compare Database >>> Option Explicit >>> Dim mbUnloading As Boolean >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Load() >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Load" >>> End Sub >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Resize() >>> ? ? If mbUnloading Then Exit Sub >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Resize" >>> End Sub >>> >>> Private Sub Form_Unload(Cancel As Integer) >>> ? ? Debug.Print "Unloading" >>> ? ? mbUnloading = True >>> End Sub >>> >>> >>> The result in the immediate window varies based on the size condition the >>> form had at last time it was closed. If the form was not maximized, the >>> resize event is called only once according to the immediate window > results. >>> But if the form WAS maximized at the time it was last closed, the word >>> "Resize" appears 3 times in the immediate window. WOW. That means it is >>> running my code in that event in triplicate. Any idea why? >>> >>> Also, if I put DoCmd.Maximize in the Load event, then whether the form > had >>> last been closed maximized or not, the Resize Event is fired three times > on >>> form Load. That as opposed to only once if I had DoCmd.Maximize in a > button >>> click event and clicked it - then it occurs only once. So, any idea why >>> Maximizing during the Load event makes Form_Resize be called three times >>> instead of twice? In fact, ?since multiple clicks of the command button > that >>> maximizes will not cause the Resize event to fire, it makes no sense to > me >>> that when the form had last been closed in Maximized window, Resize > should >>> be called any more than ONCE during this procedure: >>> ? ? ? ?Private Sub Form_Load() >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? DoCmd.Maximize >>> ? ? ? ?End Sub >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sat May 7 04:42:31 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 19:42:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Message-ID: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 7 06:22:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 07:22:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC52B81.8070507@colbyconsulting.com> Are you sure the stack overflow is occurring in this function? IOW if you don't do this count do you eventually get the stack overflow? If so then my guess is a follows: Local variables inside of a function are placed on the stack. In this case the local variable that could be giving you problems is the F as string. What may be happening is that this F is getting extremely long and filling up the stack. Make F global. Doing so will force VBA to place the variable on the heap which is essentially infinite, and thus the size of F can grow as big as needed. Can you use the File System Object? This is an object that represents the file system of the computer. Using that would allow you to directly get the count of files in the directory object. Unfortunately in many cases the FSO is not available if tight security has been implemented. Check it out though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/7/2011 5:42 AM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just > want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some > occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer > window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have > a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually > run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder& "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f)<> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow > errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat May 7 07:36:11 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 07:36:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <000f01cc0cb3$591528e0$0b3f7aa0$@comcast.net> Whenever I do anything file related, I include a DoEvents method - like this: Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ DoEvents Loop I've solved a lot of issues this way. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren - Active Billing Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:43 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 7 14:42:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 12:42:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <818FFDBFCF624C11BD68366986E5CA9C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Darren: Do any of your calls open objects but do not close them and set them to nothing on exiting the function or subroutine? If this is the case then you could have a stack over-flow. The only other reason I can think of is if you are assigning too much data to a specific variable or object. Note: I have found application objects very prone to stack over-flows and other bizarre activities if not handled just right. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren - Active Billing Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 2:43 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Hi guys I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I just want to count them during the process. I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I eventually run into stack overflows. Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) Dim f As String Dim c As Long f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") Do While Len(f) <> 0 c = c + 1 f = Dir$ Loop End sub I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack Overflow errors. I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 seconds to update the progress bar. But it looks like this is not going to be possible Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? Thanks heaps in advance team Darren -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 7 15:18:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 06:18:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder In-Reply-To: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> References: <00dc01cc0c9b$1775ebd0$4661c370$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC5A92D.8351.DAE0371@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is repeatedly calling that sub. I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! -- Stuart On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I > just want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on > some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an > Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that > (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I > eventually run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f) <> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack > Overflow errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun May 8 20:47:48 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 11:47:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder - solved Message-ID: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> Hi guys Thanks for the responses. I rejigged it all - especially taking note of what Stuart said about the issue being in the loop not the call I also got some of the math done at the start point and held them in globals rather than doing the all the math each time in the loop And it's all good So it seems the logic and methods were (kinda) ok - the placement and order of them was not Many thanks for your ideas and pointers Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, 8 May 2011 6:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is repeatedly calling that sub. I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! -- Stuart On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > > I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help > > We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I > just want to count them during the process. > > I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. > > I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on > some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. > > Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an > Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. > > Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that > (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). > > Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I > eventually run into stack overflows. > > Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. > > > > Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) > > Dim f As String > > Dim c As Long > > > > f = Dir$(strPathFolder & "*.xml") > > > > Do While Len(f) <> 0 > > c = c + 1 > > f = Dir$ > > Loop > > > > End sub > > > > I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack > Overflow errors. > > I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 > seconds to update the progress bar. > > But it looks like this is not going to be possible > > Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? > Thanks heaps in advance team > Darren > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 09:39:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 10:39:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder - solved In-Reply-To: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> References: <011a01cc0deb$1ad71280$50853780$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4DC7FCBD.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Glad you got it working. Thanks for reporting back. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/8/2011 9:47 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi guys > Thanks for the responses. > I rejigged it all - especially taking note of what Stuart said about the > issue being in the loop not the call > I also got some of the math done at the start point and held them in globals > rather than doing the all the math each time in the loop > And it's all good > So it seems the logic and methods were (kinda) ok - the placement and order > of them was not > Many thanks for your ideas and pointers > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, 8 May 2011 6:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003+A2010 File Count in a folder > > Is the overfolw occurring in that sub, or in the timing loop that is > repeatedly calling that sub. > I'd suspect the latter. More complete example needed for diagnosis! > > -- > Stuart > > On 7 May 2011 at 19:42, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> I keep getting stack overflow errors - need help >> >> We are creating XML files via some other process (Not Access) and I >> just want to count them during the process. >> >> I need to do it continually until the desired no of files is reached. >> >> I am building a progress bar around this file creation process and on >> some occasions we build thousands of files and it can take some time. >> >> Of course I could sit there and watch the file count grow in an >> Explorer window. But like I said this process can take ages. >> >> Application.FileSearch won't work in Access 2010 so I can't use that >> (I have a mix of 2003 and 2010 access versions). >> >> Most of the code I have found on the interweb does the job but I >> eventually run into stack overflows. >> >> Here's a sample of one way that does work but eventually it overflows. >> >> >> >> Private Sub f_fileCount(strPathFolder as string) >> >> Dim f As String >> >> Dim c As Long >> >> >> >> f = Dir$(strPathFolder& "*.xml") >> >> >> >> Do While Len(f)<> 0 >> >> c = c + 1 >> >> f = Dir$ >> >> Loop >> >> >> >> End sub >> >> >> >> I have also tried the FSO and that too (eventually) gave Stack >> Overflow errors. >> >> I had it in mind to test the file count using the time say every 5-10 >> seconds to update the progress bar. >> >> But it looks like this is not going to be possible >> >> Anyone done this sort of thing before? Any pointers? >> Thanks heaps in advance team >> Darren >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 09:55:10 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:55:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SusanAccessD at azmom.com Mon May 9 10:42:18 2011 From: SusanAccessD at azmom.com (SusanAccessD at azmom.com) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 08:42:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 9 10:51:54 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 11:51:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 12:07:54 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 12:07:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com><003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: Well Thanks guys and gals. We couldn't get the SQL instructions to work it kept returning Object not found "Select * From, Project Month And Year" However somehow I tried this MonthStartDate = DLookup("[MonthStartDate]", (cstrQryName)) MonthEndDate = DLookup("[MonthEndDate]", (cstrQryName)) And I got it to work. I had tried it before but must have had something just not right. I have been working on this for two days. I changed the variables to MSD and MED jut to see if they were extracted from the table. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon May 9 12:18:24 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:18:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com><003701cc0e5f$ae3ae8c0$0ab0ba40$@com> Message-ID: Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the spaces in the query name. Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 1:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Well Thanks guys and gals. We couldn't get the SQL instructions to work it kept returning Object not found "Select * From, Project Month And Year" However somehow I tried this MonthStartDate = DLookup("[MonthStartDate]", (cstrQryName)) MonthEndDate = DLookup("[MonthEndDate]", (cstrQryName)) And I got it to work. I had tried it before but must have had something just not right. I have been working on this for two days. I changed the variables to MSD and MED jut to see if they were extracted from the table. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help You're missing the FROM clause in that SQL. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of SusanAccessD at azmom.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql = "select *," & cstrQryName -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 7:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 12:22:56 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:22:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 13:31:36 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:31:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 15:21:58 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:21:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> <003001cc0e6d$bd5c2ae0$381480a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003901cc0e86$c051e1e0$40f5a5a0$@gmail.com> >>a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. A fiscal calendar table is the way to go. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Steve, have you resolved? It's been awhile. I think your problem is two-fold. You must change the SQL assignment as I showed you to be syntactically correct... and this line: DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql Should be DoCmd.OpenQuery cstrQryName But ... I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish, it seems pretty convoluted even for my taste, and I have an advanced degree in Convolution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 9 15:47:51 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:47:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Message-ID: Hi Steve If so, these functions may be useful for you: Public Function DateWeekFirst( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the first date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekFirst = DateAdd("d", vbSunday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function Public Function DateWeekLast( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the last date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekLast = DateAdd("d", vbSaturday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function /gustav >>> sturner at mseco.com 09-05-2011 20:31 >>> Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 16:50:02 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 07:50:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Advice to young developers: Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. :-) -- Stuart On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > spaces in the query name. > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > Lambert :-) > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 16:54:43 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:54:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , , <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thanks good advice. I normally don't. Jut did on this. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 4:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Advice to young developers: Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. :-) -- Stuart On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > spaces in the query name. > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > Lambert :-) > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon May 9 16:54:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 14:54:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: So true! Let's not forget naming fields "Date, Month, Year" and "Name" :) D On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it > WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the > > spaces in the query name. > > > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > > > Lambert :-) > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From sturner at mseco.com Mon May 9 16:55:57 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:55:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Gustav We will keep and try this out. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 3:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Hi Steve If so, these functions may be useful for you: Public Function DateWeekFirst( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the first date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekFirst = DateAdd("d", vbSunday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function Public Function DateWeekLast( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal lngFirstDayOfWeek As Long = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek) _ As Date ' Returns the last date of the week of datDate. ' lngFirstDayOfWeek defines the first weekday of the week. ' 2000-09-07. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2003-05-01. System settings used as default. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' Validate lngFirstDayOfWeek. Select Case lngFirstDayOfWeek Case _ vbMonday, _ vbTuesday, _ vbWednesday, _ vbThursday, _ vbFriday, _ vbSaturday, _ vbSunday, _ vbUseSystemDayOfWeek Case Else lngFirstDayOfWeek = vbUseSystemDayOfWeek End Select DateWeekLast = DateAdd("d", vbSaturday - Weekday(datDate, lngFirstDayOfWeek), datDate) End Function /gustav >>> sturner at mseco.com 09-05-2011 20:31 >>> Got what I needed from a dlookup. Syntax is a problem. One comma or quote can mess up the whole thing. What I'm doing is fixing some code where we have to know the Month Start Date and Month End Date to run reports. Like March of this year started in February and ended in April. Our time is by the week and ends on Fridays. The guy that wrote the original code had all the dates in the code and each year we had to go change the code and add the next year. I though a table with the dates would be eaiser to pull from and write to. I can pull the dates from the accounting system with code and write to the table each year. I was fixing some other code for monthly dates and wanted to fix this also. Hopefully what I got will do the trick now. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 17:35:51 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 18:35:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000501cc0e99$740101f0$5c0305d0$@gmail.com> And Value and Index... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help So true! Let's not forget naming fields "Date, Month, Year" and "Name" :) D On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > > Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a > > Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was > > the spaces in the query name. > > > > Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" > > > > You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" > > > > Lambert :-) > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Mon May 9 17:40:10 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 18:40:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor Message-ID: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code for in Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no problem." Well, it kinda is. One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control write code such as Ctrl.Top (there is no "Top" property associated with every single Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went back to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. Is this a setting that can be banished? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 18:18:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:18:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 9 18:32:10 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:32:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help In-Reply-To: References: <000301cc0c40$7a42a510$6ec7ef30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3F42E714F91E4588A82B867C764EE25D@XPS> Steve, A query def simply represents a stored SQL statement. So you can do this: 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) If rstEnd.EOF then MSD = Null MED = Null Else MED = rstEnd![MonthStartDate] MED = rstEnd![MonthEndDate] End If rstEnd.Close Set rstEnd = Nothing Or this: strSQL = "SELECT * FROM ;" Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(strSQL) If rstEnd.EOF then MSD = Null MED = Null Else MED = rstEnd![MonthStartDate] MED = rstEnd![MonthEndDate] End If rstEnd.Close Set rstEnd = Nothing Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help Still returns can't find the object. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help strSql ="Select * from [" & cstrQryName & "]" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 6:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help Hey Guys, Need some help here. I've tried everything I can find but I don't understand some of it. I have a table with project year, project Month and the Month Start Date and Month End Date's for a number of years. I am trying to read this table MonthlDates for the ProjYear And ProjMonth to get the Month Start and End Days. I have a query built that pulls this data and a query table appears in Access 2010 with the data in it as a one line record. How do I read this data into a variable MSD and MED so I can Update another table called Variables we use to run reports from.? Code works till I get to the how to read query for MSD and MED. Dim rst As Recordset Dim strSql As String, strParm As String Dim strMessage As String Dim intCommand As Integer Dim qdf As QueryDef Const cstrQryName As String = "Project Month And Year" 'sets the project year and month PY = ProjYear PM = projMonth 'Update the variables table Set rstVariables = db.OpenRecordset("Variables") With rstVariables .Edit !PY = PY 'ProjYear !PM = PM 'projMonth .Update End With 'Query MonthlyDates table for Month Start and End Set qdf = db.QueryDefs(cstrQryName) With DoCmd .SetWarnings False .OpenQuery (cstrQryName), , acEdit .SetWarnings True End With 'how to read query for MSD and MED??? Set rstEnd = db.OpenRecordset(cstrQryName) strSql = ("select *,(cstrQryName)") '<--MS ERROR can't find (cstrQryName) DoCmd.OpenQuery strSql ' want to fill in these variables to update table Variables MSD = MonthStartDate MED = MonthEndDate Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 9 19:18:18 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 10:18:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 9 19:43:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 17:43:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5C3DF38D939247C59F8F1099EC2ACF82@HAL9005> I was warned off them when I first joined this list in A97 days - all domain functions actually because they were so much slower than opening a recordset either filtered or using FindFirst to get a value, and then closing it. I use them now to look up things in local tables or on linked tables in places in the code where I know it will not be in a loop with lots of iterations - like retrieving a value from a preferences table. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 9 20:21:49 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 20:21:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also installed? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 20:37:44 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:37:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com>, <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DC896E8.16313.E6400@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Installed, yes. In use, no. Many people use non MS email clients even though they are using Word, Excel etc. On 9 May 2011 at 20:21, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is > also installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 9 20:44:46 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:44:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> More info required. Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. Just about every email client uses a different format for storing retreived. On 9 May 2011 at 19:18, jwcolby wrote: > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon May 9 20:57:35 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:57:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC896E8.16313.E6400@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105100157.p4A1vgon017650@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Maybe not even installed anymore if they are using the newer versions of Office. For several options of the Office Suites you need to purchase MS Outlook seperately now (same with MS Access). I can't speak for everyone, but at this point I gave up on MS Outlook and now use Thunderbird instead. Can't really see any upside to paying extra mulla for an Email client & Calendar I don't use much anyway. If it was included I would have kept using it but now it is not even installed on my windows 7 PC. Of course other folks may find more value with continuing to use MS Outlook and are prepared to pay the money (It was about $100 AUD last time I looked, but that was a while back now), but it is likely to be less of a 'given' now included as a default software package in all Office Suites. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] POP mail automation Installed, yes. In use, no. Many people use non MS email clients even though they are using Word, Excel etc. On 9 May 2011 at 20:21, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is > also installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but > I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. > The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is > running on the user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing > list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 21:21:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:21:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> <009d01cc0eb0$a5ac7ec0$f1057c40$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DC8A12C.10005@colbyconsulting.com> > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also installed? Nope. I am setting up an Access runtime, and Outlook is not included AFAICT. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/9/2011 9:21 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > If they are running Access, would it be fair to assume that Outlook is also > installed? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation > > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small > e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now > need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is > that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's > machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 9 21:29:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:29:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DC8763C.7070308@colbyconsulting.com> <4DC8988E.3781.14D49D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DC8A318.3060000@colbyconsulting.com> > Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. Well, it really depends on what I am doing. I think pull down the emails and allow Access to "read them". Just as an example one client will be sending out email to volunteers working an event. I would like to set up some sort of "opt-out" where they could reply with a code in the subject which would cause me to remove them from the list. In other cases I might send out a word document which the user could open and fill out and then return. I have never done either of these things so I am not exactly sure where I can take this. Basically I need to be able to pull in emails into a lightweight automatable client and do things with them. I automate Outlook for clients, but I cannot be certain that the user of any given app will own outlook. At a minimum I would like to be able to read the from, subject and also see attachments. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/9/2011 9:44 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > More info required. > > Do you mean you want to use POP3 to retrieve emails and store them inside your Access > application? Or get Access to trigger the email client to download and store the messages. > > Just about every email client uses a different format for storing retreived. > > > > On 9 May 2011 at 19:18, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small >> e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but >> I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. >> The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is >> running on the user's machine. >> >> Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from >> Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing >> list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon May 9 23:39:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 21:39:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor In-Reply-To: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> References: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Why are you trying to write code using a property that doesn't apply to the generic object? If you wait until you set the control object to a particular kind of control that has a Top property, your code will work. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:40 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code for in > Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no problem." Well, > it kinda is. > > One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control write > code such as > > Ctrl.Top ? ? ?(there is no "Top" property associated with every single > Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing > Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went back > to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. > > Is this a setting that can be banished? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 10 01:32:47 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 02:32:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor In-Reply-To: References: <000601cc0e9a$0e8ac670$2ba05350$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000a01cc0edc$14b56d10$3e204730$@gmail.com> My code traditionally includes loops like For each ctrl in Controls If TypeOf Ctrl is Access.CommandButton then If Ctrl.Caption like "ButtonsOnRightOfForm*" then Set Btn = Ctrl 'Do something based on the .Left property of the Button But frequently I take a shortcut and just use If TypeOf Ctrl is Access.CommandButton then If Ctrl.Caption like "ButtonsOnRightOfForm*" then 'Do something based on the .Left property of Ctrl Anyway, my question about the VBE still hangs out there if you or another has an answer... it is a different behavior between 2010 and 2003 unless it involves an Option in the VBE which I do not know about. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 VBA Editor Why are you trying to write code using a property that doesn't apply to the generic object? If you wait until you set the control object to a particular kind of control that has a Top property, your code will work. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:40 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > I have been asked to upgrade a database which I wrote a lot of code > for in Access 2003, to Access 2010. I thought this ought to be "no > problem." Well, it kinda is. > > One thing I am running into is that when I declare Ctrl as a Control > write code such as > > Ctrl.Top ? ? ?(there is no "Top" property associated with every single > Control) Access 2010 VBA is now very unhelpfully writing > Ctrl.TopPadding the moment I type a space after the letter "p". I went > back to 2003 VBA and the VBE does not do that in the prior version. > > Is this a setting that can be banished? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From palodurogrowers at suddenlink.net Tue May 10 08:30:24 2011 From: palodurogrowers at suddenlink.net (Tim Thiessen) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:30:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I used to be a member but have been off for several years because of job changes. I can't seem to get to the archives. Are they still available? I'm looking for information on using Access with Quickbooks. Tim Thiessen From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 08:43:41 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:43:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Darryl I've never had any issue with DLookup, and it is not true that it is slow. It can be slow, but so can opening and searching a recordset be. Indeed in reports, speed often is of minor importance. That said, I don't use it that much, but here and there it provides a quick and simple solution. Like everything else it can be abused, and that seems to be the case in your application. /gustav >>> Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au 10-05-2011 02:18 >>> Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 10 08:46:41 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 09:46:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105100018.p4A0IQF6030398@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 08:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Folks, A database I have been given to work on uses a lot of DLOOKUPs (hundreds). Personally I don't like them much and prefer to write SELECT SQL statements or a neat little function to get values back from a table. I do this as these methods are more flexible and easier to read and debug compated to DLOOKUP. Using recordsets to get data also seems to be as fast as using DLOOKUP, although given the speed of today's processors I am not sure it is something a human would notice anyway. The DLOOKUP is a short piece of code, but harder to read, or at least I find it harder (often because the DLOOKUP is a long string make up of variables and often extent outside the visibile VBE window. I recall reading somewhere that there are issues when using a lot of DLOOKUPs, of course I could dreaming as well. I know Allan Browne has identified some issues, these alone would make me nervous about using DLOOKUP so I am happy not to bother with them. <> However, curious to know what your opinion is of them. Do I have an attitude problem as they fast, useful and reliable or is my reluctance worthwhile as DLOOKUP is something best to be used sparingly and with some caution? Cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 08:54:22 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:54:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Darryl Jim is right, such constructions are awful. But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in one call indeed is possible, like: =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 10 09:56:59 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 16:56:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: Hi John You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp Example code for reading headers only: http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18 >>> I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the user's machine. Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 10 12:03:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 13:03:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> It is inexpensive. Have you used it? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/10/2011 10:56 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: > > http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp > > Example code for reading headers only: > http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18>>> > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured > out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail > account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the > user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 12:51:33 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:51:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Hi All I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to do a multiple LIKE selection from Access XP ie in the query criteria [Status] LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting a syntax error from the ODBC driver Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, any help greatly appreciated..... TIA Robin Lawrence From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue May 10 12:57:22 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 12:57:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com> <684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses % instead of the asterisk. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi All I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to do a multiple LIKE selection from Access XP ie in the query criteria [Status] LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting a syntax error from the ODBC driver Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, any help greatly appreciated..... TIA Robin Lawrence -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 13:11:31 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 19:11:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue May 10 15:30:52 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 22:30:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue May 10 15:42:32 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 16:42:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J> <89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J> <1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> Message-ID: I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lawrence.robinr at gmail.com Tue May 10 16:27:11 2011 From: lawrence.robinr at gmail.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 22:27:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J><89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J><1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> Message-ID: <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> That's right Lambert, Some of us are still too lazy to write out the proper SQL :) Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pharold at cfl.rr.com Tue May 10 16:36:48 2011 From: pharold at cfl.rr.com (Perry Harold) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 17:36:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Need Some help References: , , <4DC8618A.27502.184E3033@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: If you switch from Access to VB it hits you in the teeth almost immediately. Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Need Some help > Advice to young developers: > > Never, ever, ever, ever , ever put spaces in the name of any field or > object. If you do, it > WILL turn round and bite you one day. > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 9 May 2011 at 13:18, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > >> Ah well. Now that the live parts of my brain have engaged (this is a >> Monday after all) it is evident that what was tripping you up was the >> spaces in the query name. >> >> Instead of the SQL string :"Select * From, Project Month And Year" >> >> You really needed :"Select * From [Project Month And Year]" >> >> Lambert :-) >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue May 10 16:55:31 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 23:55:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC In-Reply-To: <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> References: <4DC96FF5.1090204@colbyconsulting.com><684F1FEE93694068A7E1E4E4EA1CB11C@DBYHJV3J><89C8A166AE8D48C596FF384DE4672295@DBYHJV3J><1B6E5A3E9A82405495FA5CA383D89576@abpc> <461ED9397D5D4729A75AF4FCC0A30AC3@DBYHJV3J> Message-ID: <36D2F38B804645DF8175B0D5F79DF357@abpc> Happy to know my grammar was right ;-) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 23:27 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC That's right Lambert, Some of us are still too lazy to write out the proper SQL :) Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC I think that it's working because Robin has changed his criteria in the query design grid, so LIKE "%sold%" OR LIKE "%returned%" OR LIKE "%finished%" Would be just fine. Behind the scenes Access will build the SQL so it reads [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC >> Well that worked Is that really so? I would expect that you also have to repeat the field name in front of each LIKE, ie.: [Status] LIKE "%sold%" OR [Status] LIKE "%returned%" OR [Status] LIKE "%finished%" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Robin Lawrence Sendt: 10. maj 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC Hi Drew, Well that worked I already tried that but must have had a typing error in there somewhere.. Many thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew Wutka" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > If you are using ADO, the problem probably isn't like, it's *, ADO uses > % instead of the asterisk. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robin > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] using Like with ODBC > > Hi All > > I'm connecting to a Sage Line 50 Accounts program via ODBC and need to > do a > multiple LIKE selection from Access XP > > ie in the query criteria > [Status] > LIKE "*sold*" OR LIKE "*returned*" OR LIKE "*finished*"' but am getting > a > syntax error from the ODBC driver > > > Been a while since I've had to do this - can't remember the workaround, > any > help greatly appreciated..... > TIA > > Robin Lawrence > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 10 17:03:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:03:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC9B623.17917.4706177@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And combining that technique with Split() to get the fields into an array for further use can make it even more useful. -- Stuart On 10 May 2011 at 15:54, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Darryl > > Jim is right, such constructions are awful. > But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in > one call indeed is possible, like: > > =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & > [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> > Darryl, > > All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, > which can > be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. > > Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL > statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot > optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you > should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. > > As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() > for > example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to > do something like this: > > =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & > lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " > & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] > = " & lngEmployeeID) > > If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better > off to > open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the > entire record. > > Jim. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 10 17:17:59 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:17:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201105102218.p4AMIPDJ018580@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks Everyone, Appreciate your thoughts and feedback. cheers Darryl ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock [Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Hi Darryl Jim is right, such constructions are awful. But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in one call indeed is possible, like: =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> Darryl, All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, which can be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() for example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to do something like this: =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better off to open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the entire record. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 11 01:31:10 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:31:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: Hi John Yes, I used it in a custom app back in 2005 with excellent result. The client ceased business some years ago so I haven't any recent experience with it. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 19:03 >>> It is inexpensive. Have you used it? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/10/2011 10:56 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > You can use the ActiveX component from Chilkat. Not free but very capable and support is excellent: > > http://www.chilkatsoft.com/email-activex.asp > > Example code for reading headers only: > http://www.example-code.com/vb/pop3_readHeaders.asp > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 10-05-2011 01:18>>> > I am writing Access applications which will use GMail to send small e-mailings. I finally figured > out how to use CDO to do email send but I now need to be able to collect email back from my gmail > account. The problem is that I won't have a clue what email client (if any) is running on the > user's machine. > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from Access? From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 11 01:35:09 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:35:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Whilst on DLOOKUPs.... Message-ID: Hi Stuart That's a nice tip! Never thought of that. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 11-05-2011 00:03 >>> And combining that technique with Split() to get the fields into an array for further use can make it even more useful. -- Stuart On 10 May 2011 at 15:54, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Darryl > > Jim is right, such constructions are awful. > But don't forget that retrieving computed or concatenated values in > one call indeed is possible, like: > > =Dlookup("[LastName] & ', ' & > [FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & lngEmployeeID) > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 10-05-2011 15:46 >>> > Darryl, > > All the Domain functions are really encapsulated SQL statements, > which can > be used where an expression is allowed, but an SQL statement is not. > > Because of that, it also means they should not ever be used in a SQL > statement. The simple reason being is that the query optimizer cannot > optimize them and since they represent an SQL statement anyway, you > should be using the appropriate Join(s) and SQL statements. > > As for them always being slower, that is not the case. A Dlookup() > for > example can be as fast as other methods. However it is inefficient to > do something like this: > > =Dlookup("[FirstName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " & > lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[LastName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] = " > & lngEmployeeID) =Dlookup("[MiddleName]","tblEmployee","[EmployeeID] > = " & lngEmployeeID) > > If your fetching anything more then a field or two, your far better > off to > open a record set, fetch the record, and then have access to the > entire record. > > Jim. From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 08:02:57 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 06:02:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 09:35:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:35:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Hi Darrell, I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 11 09:43:31 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:43:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <> No. 32/64 bit versions of Office won't mix and match at all. You can run 32 bit Office under a 64 bit OS and most are doing that. The 64 bit version of Office has had issues, most of which is a lack of anything to support it (3rd party controls, ODBC drivers, etc). Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 09:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From erbachs at gmail.com Wed May 11 09:52:07 2011 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:52:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 10:17:34 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:17:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:25:33 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:25:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even knowing it. It's the business world that is slowly making the intentional conversion. This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. The computer market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. 64 bit processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that are just allowing 32 bit OSes. I am willing to bet that the next release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hi Darrell, I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From garykjos at gmail.com Wed May 11 10:33:56 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:33:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: From: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee681792.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The recommendations for which edition of Office 2010 to install are as follows: ----> If users in your organization depend on existing extensions to Office, such as ActiveX controls, third-party add-ins, in-house solutions built on previous versions of Office, or 32-bit versions of programs that interface directly with Office, we recommend that you install 32-bit Office 2010 (the default installation) on computers that are running both 32-bit and 64-bit supported Windows operating systems. ----> If some users in your organization are Excel expert users who work with Excel spreadsheets that are larger than 2 gigabytes (GB), they can install the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. In addition, if you have in-house solution developers, we recommend that those developers have access to the 64-bit edition of Office 2010 so that they can test and update your in-house solutions on the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GK On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. ?It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. ?The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. ?64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. ?I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. ?It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed May 11 10:34:47 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:34:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <35CFAF2A4CD24CD984EBDA17A4EFD9E5@XPS> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/choose-the-32-bit-or-64-bit-vers ion-of-microsoft-office-HA010369476.aspx Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:35:42 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:35:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 10:43:50 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:43:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com><015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Actually, I meant to put that exact link in my post, forgot too. What's key is the first part of the first paragraph: "Processors that are 64-bit are becoming the standard for systems that range from servers to desktop computers. The 64-bit systems can use more virtual and physical memory than 32-bit systems. This lets users work with much larger data sets than they could previously, and to analyze and solve large computational problems. Microsoft Office 2010 introduces native 64-bit versions of Microsoft Office products to take advantage of this larger capacity." That first sentence is an understatement. It's been the standard for years already. I have 2010 x64 installed on my home desktop (the one I described the build and upgrade process on OT). It runs great, but other than Outlook, I haven't used it much, because that machine is more of a server then a desktop to me. I just now, a few minutes ago, popped into my home machine to take a little deeper look at what Access 2010 was like....and it's still using the Access 2007 db format, so there are no db features taking advantage of 64 bit advantages. So Access 2010 is the 21st century equivalent of Access 95. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit From: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee681792.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The recommendations for which edition of Office 2010 to install are as follows: ----> If users in your organization depend on existing extensions to Office, such as ActiveX controls, third-party add-ins, in-house solutions built on previous versions of Office, or 32-bit versions of programs that interface directly with Office, we recommend that you install 32-bit Office 2010 (the default installation) on computers that are running both 32-bit and 64-bit supported Windows operating systems. ----> If some users in your organization are Excel expert users who work with Excel spreadsheets that are larger than 2 gigabytes (GB), they can install the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. In addition, if you have in-house solution developers, we recommend that those developers have access to the 64-bit edition of Office 2010 so that they can test and update your in-house solutions on the 64-bit edition of Office 2010. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GK On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. ?It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. ?The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. ?64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. ?I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. ?It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 10:58:50 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:58:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! In the meantime here we are in the "Office 95" era waiting for MS to figure it out and the rest of the world to catch up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 11:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Not to pull away from Darrell's question, but what do you mean that they > are doing everything they can to encourage people not to use it? > > That Office 2010 has 3 versions (the 32, 64 and 32/64) is an indication > that Microsoft is preparing for a Full, 64 bit ONLY version Office. > > To look at the push towards 64 bit computing, don't look at Office, look > at Windows. Most home users are getting Windows 7 64 bit without even > knowing it. It's the business world that is slowly making the > intentional conversion. > > This is more complex than the 16 to 32 bit conversion. The computer > market was nowhere near as large or as saturated as it is now. 64 bit > processors have been out since the 90's, but in the last 5 or 6 years, > all PC based systems have been coming out with 64 bit processors, that > are just allowing 32 bit OSes. I am willing to bet that the next > release, or the one after, will be available ONLY as 64 bit. > > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up > was Access 97, which just simply rocked! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 > runtime > package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 11:00:19 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:00:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? Message-ID: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From kismert at gmail.com Wed May 11 11:02:35 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:02:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation Message-ID: I personally hate all of the Microsoft email options. I've tried CDO, CDONTS, and MAPI, and all have crippling drawbacks. I finally found a WinSock-based VBA module that sends email with no fuss: no external references are required, just hooks to kernel32 and wsock32 dlls. But even this code isn't up to my standards, so I can't recommend it as a truly robust CDO alternative. Also worth noting: fake sendmail for windows http://glob.com.au/sendmail/ It's a command-line exe that you can shell out to send emails. Also, see the "alternatives" section. -Ken -----Original Message----- > From: jwcolby > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 11:03:43 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:03:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <4DCAB23A.50902@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: LOL, so true! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > Think of Office 2010 x64 as the Access 95 of Offices. It's follow-up was Access 97, which just simply rocked! In the meantime here we are in the "Office 95" era waiting for MS to figure it out and the rest of the world to catch up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 11:17:20 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:17:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> Message-ID: <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed May 11 11:22:32 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:22:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] POP mail automation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000d01cc0ff7$a31f7bb0$e95e7310$@comcast.net> I've been using Outlook Evader from everthingaccess.com for several months now. It 'evades' the email security message, and provides other features. In my system I can create an option for each user to say if they want emails saved into their Sent Items folder, or not! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] POP mail automation I personally hate all of the Microsoft email options. I've tried CDO, CDONTS, and MAPI, and all have crippling drawbacks. I finally found a WinSock-based VBA module that sends email with no fuss: no external references are required, just hooks to kernel32 and wsock32 dlls. But even this code isn't up to my standards, so I can't recommend it as a truly robust CDO alternative. Also worth noting: fake sendmail for windows http://glob.com.au/sendmail/ It's a command-line exe that you can shell out to send emails. Also, see the "alternatives" section. -Ken -----Original Message----- > From: jwcolby > > Does anyo0ne know of a free pop mail client that can be automated from > Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 11:37:09 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:37:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 11:44:17 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:44:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> Message-ID: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install?" Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 11 12:03:34 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:03:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> Message-ID: If you don't use a shortcut and the user double clicks the app, it will try to open using the installed version of Access, not the runtime. Charlotte Foust On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Darrell Burns wrote: > ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime > install?" > > > > Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? > > --DB > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > > > Darrell, > > > > If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? > > Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you > > install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file > > under your runtime install? > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO > > exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 > > 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime > > package and it didn't work at their place. > > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I > > haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't > > abandon the 32-bit version. > > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? > > > > Thanx, > > DB > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 12:07:01 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:07:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 12:20:50 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:20:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <006d01cc0ff6$edd1e8b0$c975ba10$@cox.net> <001501cc0ffa$abda68c0$038f3a40$@com> Message-ID: <008001cc0fff$d3405eb0$79c11c10$@cox.net> The Access runtime is a totally separate installation of a version of Access on a computer that is independent of any version of Access or office the user may have on the computer. If you don't have a shortcut that opens your application using the runtime version your going to have the problems your seeing. We install our Access 2002 runtime on many computers having various versions of Office on them or not. Our application runs in Access 2002, not whatever version of Access the user has. We install the Access runtime. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit ".do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install?" Hey Doug. I didn't explicitly create a shortcut but why would that matter? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Darrell, If your providing a runtime why is the app. trying to run from Access 64? Your runtime should run independently of the installed version. When you install the runtime do you provide a short cut that runs the Access file under your runtime install? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 11 12:23:28 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:23:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 12:43:52 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:43:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 12:45:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:45:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: <008d01cc1003$3ab49040$b01db0c0$@cox.net> The purpose of Microsoft providing a runtime version of Access is to allow users without Access to run your app. You can also install the runtime version of Access on a computer that already has Access installed, any version. A properly installed runtime will operate completely independently of whatever other version of Access is on the computer, thus we can run Access 2002 on any Windows computer no matter what other versions of Access are on it. In your case you don't have to uninstall the clients Office 64, just install the Access 2007 runtime. See http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=d9ae78d9-9dc6-4b 38-9fa6-2c745a175aed&displaylang=en. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Wed May 11 12:49:13 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:49:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Well we have now. :-) A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. ??? I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed May 11 13:03:26 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:03:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> Message-ID: <000501cc1005$b9ab8b90$2d02a2b0$@winhaven.net> Darrell, the point of my question was (not knowing how large of a customer - how many installs - this is) that if they didn't have a specific reason, maybe they'd prefer to install the 32 bit version and avoid all the hassles. In that case, you'd look like a hero. Access isn't going to be the only 64 bit problem to present itself. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 11 13:06:21 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:06:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> Message-ID: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 14:12:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:12:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DCADF8B.4040502@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, many non-native English speakers don't write English all that well. OTOH I don't write anything except English so who am I to complain. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 1:49 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Well we have now. :-) > > A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual > > "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" > > So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. > > ??? > > I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? > > http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 11 14:16:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:16:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DCAE0A7.1020605@colbyconsulting.com> This appears to be an open source attempt to do a SVN integration with Access. I didn't download it yet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/11/2011 1:49 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Well we have now. :-) > > A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual > > "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" > > So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. > > ??? > > I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? > > http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 14:44:01 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:44:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 11 15:08:31 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 06:08:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: , <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net>, Message-ID: <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Imagine? I don't have to. :-) I've had Quad Integers (64bit) and Currency (64 bit - 4 decimal places) and Extended Currency( larger range, 2 decimal places) in PowerBasic for years. -- Stuart On 11 May 2011 at 10:35, Drew Wutka wrote: > What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better > than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go > beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck > with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database > version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X > controls, > etc. > > I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so > I canned it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > John, > > >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use > >> it. > > >> << > > Fascinating. Why is that? > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow > wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit > Office. Microsoft does > > > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > > 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app > > runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > > > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > > can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both > > worlds with just one version? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed May 11 15:33:19 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:33:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net>, <4DCAECBF.30849.2957857@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Imagine? I don't have to. :-) I've had Quad Integers (64bit) and Currency (64 bit - 4 decimal places) and Extended Currency( larger range, 2 decimal places) in PowerBasic for years. -- Stuart On 11 May 2011 at 10:35, Drew Wutka wrote: > What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better > than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go > beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck > with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database > version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X > controls, > etc. > > I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so > I canned it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > 64-bit > > John, > > >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use > >> it. > > >> << > > Fascinating. Why is that? > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow > wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit > Office. Microsoft does > > > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs > > 64-bit > > > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. The app > > runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > > > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > > can't abandon the 32-bit version. Is there a way to satisfy both > > worlds with just one version? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 11 16:21:41 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 17:21:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCAB293.6040508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001401cc1021$6c778880$45669980$@gmail.com> The next version's coding is done, they're just getting the documentation translated is what is taking so long... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? Well we have now. :-) A quote from the first paragraph of the user manual "Access SVN it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition, like tables, forms or reports to plain text files. Then, you can do source control versioning on that files. And, soon in next versions, Access SVN will be capable of import back the flat files to a MS Access database" So you can export object defs. Now, but you'll have to wait for the next version before you can import them. ??? I hope their coding is better than their technical English: "it's a tool that allow export MS Access objects definition", "will be capable of import back the flat files" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Has anyone seen this? http://accesssvn.codeplex.com/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 12 13:42:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:42:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 12 14:28:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:28:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?LSI_MegaRAID_SAS/SATA_9265-8i_6Gb/s_PC?= =?windows-1252?q?Ie_RAID_Card_Review_=96_Performance_Unleashed!_=7C_The_S?= =?windows-1252?q?SD_Review?= Message-ID: <4DCC34C3.4080302@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/lsi-megaraid-sassata-9265-8i-6gbs-pcie-raid-controller-card-review/ From bheid at sc.rr.com Thu May 12 17:24:36 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 18:24:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> Message-ID: <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 12 17:56:13 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:56:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <00d501cc10f7$cb400a00$61c01e00$@com> Hi Doug. I changed the context in my question below...I wasn't referring to runtime, so I believe Drew's answer was correct. Thanx, DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 12 18:01:00 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:01:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu May 12 18:54:33 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:54:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <001b01cc10ff$f15312c0$d3f93840$@cox.net> I don't really know what the advantage of the 64 bit version of Access is. It seems that there are compatibility issues if you use it. Most of the literature I have seen recommends against the 64 bit version of Office. The Access runtimes will work on 32 or 64 bit machines. The big question is how you set up the runtimes on the target machines. If you have a package that you send to clients that they run to install your app. on their computers then you need to worry about the installer. Most folks recommend going with Sagekey scripts for this approach. If you set the runtime up yourself then it should work well. There can be issues if the client has other versions of Office installed on the same machine as your runtime. This is no different than what happens if folks have two versions of Access installed on their computer. If you don't handle the startup of the application in the correct version your app. will try to open in whatever version of Access was run last. This can lead to problems. For runtimes it is recommended that you have a shortcut that causes the application to open using the runtime Access installation. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 4:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri May 13 02:39:27 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 02:39:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: The advantage is a little difficult to see right now. The best way is to jump back in time. Let's say you developed in Access 1.0 or 2.0, and let's say they came out with Access 3.0, as both a 16 bit version, and a 32 bit version. But a large amount of things didn't work with the 32 bit version. But Windows 95 was going to push things into the 32 bit direction...and it was going to spread like wild fire. The advantage of learning the quirks and ins and out of the 32 bit version was going to give you a leg up in the next few years. That is what the 64 bit version does. It allows you to get ready for a change. A change that is coming, whether we like it or not. 64 bit is here. Windows 7 is probably (and this is JUST my opinion) going to be the LAST Windows OS that is available in a 32 bit version. Right now, on a 64 bit OS, the ONLY way to run 16 bit applications is in a virtual environment. It is not going to be very long, probably less than a decade when 128 bit systems are as spread around as 64 bit systems are now. (check every machine you have purchased or worked on in the last 5 years... they are all going to be 64 bit machines, but if purchased before Windows 7, most will be running 32 bit OSes). When 128 bit processors are more dominant, and OSes move to use that structure, 32 bit applications are going to have the same problems that 16 bit applications do now.... so moving to 64 bit right now is going to get you on the wagon for the next decade. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 6:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-525 0-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 13 05:51:18 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 06:51:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 13 09:05:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 09:05:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> Message-ID: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 13 09:16:56 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 10:16:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Sounds like you're on the Market Research Team for Sage :) Arthur On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:05 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Jim, > I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have > something that will make it work? > > John B. > From john at winhaven.net Fri May 13 10:17:51 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 10:17:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <003101cc1180$ecf3aba0$c6db02e0$@winhaven.net> Sage has saved me from all of these types of headaches over the last 10 years. I suppose I should just look at their website and post a link each time the subject comes up ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 9:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Sounds like you're on the Market Research Team for Sage :) Arthur On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:05 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Jim, > I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have > something that will make it work? > > John B. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 13 10:35:28 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 11:35:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> They have been great at isolating Access apps in the past, so that might be possible, but I have no idea if that's the case. I think though that with the standard Office installs, a 32 bit Access runtime is going to have issues along side a 64 bit Office install. Sage/Wise scripts might give a different answer though. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat May 14 15:03:16 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 16:03:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:06:13 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:06:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> Message-ID: <003a01cc1293$e7907bc0$b6b17340$@com> 128 bit. The first computer I worked on had 128K of offline storage and I thought that was plenty. :-0 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 12:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The advantage is a little difficult to see right now. The best way is to jump back in time. Let's say you developed in Access 1.0 or 2.0, and let's say they came out with Access 3.0, as both a 16 bit version, and a 32 bit version. But a large amount of things didn't work with the 32 bit version. But Windows 95 was going to push things into the 32 bit direction...and it was going to spread like wild fire. The advantage of learning the quirks and ins and out of the 32 bit version was going to give you a leg up in the next few years. That is what the 64 bit version does. It allows you to get ready for a change. A change that is coming, whether we like it or not. 64 bit is here. Windows 7 is probably (and this is JUST my opinion) going to be the LAST Windows OS that is available in a 32 bit version. Right now, on a 64 bit OS, the ONLY way to run 16 bit applications is in a virtual environment. It is not going to be very long, probably less than a decade when 128 bit systems are as spread around as 64 bit systems are now. (check every machine you have purchased or worked on in the last 5 years... they are all going to be 64 bit machines, but if purchased before Windows 7, most will be running 32 bit OSes). When 128 bit processors are more dominant, and OSes move to use that structure, 32 bit applications are going to have the same problems that 16 bit applications do now.... so moving to 64 bit right now is going to get you on the wagon for the next decade. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 6:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-525 0-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:13:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:13:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> Message-ID: <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> I posed this question to Sage: "Can I compile a 32-bit Access 2007 runtime and install on a 64-bit Windows machine with Office 2010 64-bit?" Answer: "Our installation package can detect if the system is 32 or 64 bit and install to the correct folder (i.e. Program Files vs. Program Files (x86)). The 32-bit runtime is installed to its own default location under c:\program files (x86)\Microsoft Office." -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 8:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit They have been great at isolating Access apps in the past, so that might be possible, but I have no idea if that's the case. I think though that with the standard Office installs, a 32 bit Access runtime is going to have issues along side a 64 bit Office install. Sage/Wise scripts might give a different answer though. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Jim, I agree with your post. It got me to wonder though - does Sage have something that will make it work? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit The 64 bit version is not going to work under a 32 bit OS. And I would be surprised if the 32 bit version of the 2010 runtime would work on a machine that had 64 bit office installed. The Access "runtime" is not what one typically thinks of as a "runtime", which is a minimal install of some DLLs to provide basic support. It's a full install of Access and some Office components. Given that we have *always* dealt with issues installing multiple versions of Access on a machine (even when installed in separate directories), I would not expect anything different here. And it's the reason why Sage install scripts have been so popular in the Access world; it's the only way you could isolate different versions. Microsoft has said that 64 bit and 32 bit Office apps cannot be mixed in any way. I highly doubt the runtime would be any different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 07:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:17:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:17:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> Message-ID: <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 19:32:30 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:32:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> Message-ID: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB From bheid at sc.rr.com Sat May 14 20:05:03 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:05:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sat May 14 21:59:29 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 19:59:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> Sorry Bobby, but what do you mean you aren't using Access? Isn't that what we're talking about? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 6:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat May 14 23:52:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:52:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS><003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I always put the path and file name in the table and leave the pdf, doc, jpg or whatever outside the db. I found that importing even the simplest graphic into an access database bloated it way beyond the size of the file being imported . Is this what you're asking? Rocky R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun May 15 05:53:06 2011 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:53:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm totally with Rocky. Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 15 May 2011 05:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I always put the path and file name in the table and leave the pdf, doc, jpg or whatever outside the db. I found that importing even the simplest graphic into an access database bloated it way beyond the size of the file being imported . Is this what you're asking? Rocky R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 15 06:25:32 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 07:25:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 10:16:00 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:16:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not > the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the > past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it > or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB > limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; > store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset > table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want > to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's > not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I > tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that > approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple > thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 10:27:10 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 08:27:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 10:49:37 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 08:49:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com><015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net><015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net><001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com><001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com><008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net><008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net><004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com><00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS><002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net><74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS><003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com><003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Sun May 15 10:57:29 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:57:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? References: Message-ID: <9F46DF8EC30B4CECB6DC78A735795252@SusanHarkins> #2 is an option. Susan H. > Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - > a > title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the > combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in > the > table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the > user > enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the > photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will > still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places > that > opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other > set. > > Still voting for keeping them outside. > > However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be > stored > in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments > reveal. > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:38:37 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:38:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? Message-ID: I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. These queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The really odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, and it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? TIA, Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:42:38 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:42:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem Message-ID: I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 12:08:34 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:08:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have you changed version of access from the one you used to originally create this form and the sql queries in your other post? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 9:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:27:37 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:27:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes I have, from A2K3 in the first place to A2007 now, but even after the upgrade this stuff worked -- that is, until recently. I backup everything daily so I think I'll open a few of the backups and see if they exhibit the problem (they didn't when the backups were made; if they do now, then it might indicate a problem with Office 2007 rather than the db. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Have you changed version of access from the one you used to originally > create this form and the sql queries in your other post? > From ssharkins at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:36:16 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:36:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? References: Message-ID: <51E889124DC14B8DA0B487D377B93A18@SusanHarkins> Changed anything recently -- anything at all? You probably know all of the rules I've linked to though. Susan H. > I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. > These > queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm > getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The > really > odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, > and > it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. > > Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? > > TIA, > Arthur From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun May 15 12:48:40 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:48:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> Darrell, I worked with a client who had a database and was using the attachment fields type to store documents. The form with those fields was really slow, painfully slow. I was not able to prove that this field type was the problem, but suggested that we store the documents separately in a document directory. The owner of the company wanted the documents in the database and for other reasons wanted to upgrade the back end to sql server. We did this and I stored the documents in binary format in sql server and the speed went up dramatically. I can't prove that attachment fields are slow, but that is my assumption. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun May 15 13:24:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:24:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you loading the subforms JIT? Charlotte Foust On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two > containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when > I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent > either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; > other times all pages but the last one are visible. > > In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible > properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. > > I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? > > Arthur > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 15 14:29:57 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:29:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 15 14:38:32 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:38:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> Message-ID: <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> << Meaning exactly what you said.>> Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. There was nothing previously there to be compatible with. <> I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know that you can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, you get data you cannot use. <> I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not reclaimed until a compact. Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an object, which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. That no longer exists with the attachment field type. And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 16:24:32 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:24:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005301cc1314$8f9fccf0$aedf66d0$@com> <0B74CAD9C 3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS> Message-ID: <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> Jim, <> Good suggestion. I'll do that. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? << Meaning exactly what you said.>> Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. There was nothing previously there to be compatible with. <> I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know that you can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, you get data you cannot use. <> I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not reclaimed until a compact. Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an object, which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. That no longer exists with the attachment field type. And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" Meaning exactly what you said. Re: "... the data is compressed" Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on Compact/Repair to control the bloat. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of the past. However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. Thanx, DB -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Sun May 15 16:56:16 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:56:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> Message-ID: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 15 17:16:34 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:16:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Message-ID: I use the following to open the file: If IsNull(Me.txtPicture) Then Exit Sub Shell "RunDLL32.EXE shell32.dll,ShellExec_RunDLL " & Me.txtPicture, vbMaximizedFocus Where Me.txtPicture contains the path and file name of the target. The file is opened by the application to which the file extension is associated. So if there's a pdf in txtPicture it opens with Reader, .doc file opens with Word, etc. I suppose you could stash the path and file name of an .mdb file and it would open in Access. Of course, if they move the file, the link is broken. I suppose I should put a FIleExists check before the Shell and give a freindly message if the file's not there. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper > around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be > deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 15 17:17:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:17:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> References: , <0B74CAD9C3BE4C08B3BFB06925BC5F71@XPS>, <005a01cc1346$7b962e20$72c28a60$@com> Message-ID: <4DD050FD.32014.1FCA3D7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Another solution to Bloat is to use a split FE/BE and open you app via a cmd/batch file which copies a clean FE from a central location and then runs it. Slightly slower to open the app, but you then have your temp tables in the FE which will make then faster to use. -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 14:24, Darrell Burns wrote: > Jim, > < them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can > create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables > in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in > the temp DB.>> > > Good suggestion. I'll do that. > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > << Meaning exactly what you said.>> > > Hum...guess I don't understand your point; it was a new feature. > There > was nothing previously there to be compatible with. > > < Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip?>> > > I know it is for certain, but I don't know how much. I just know > that you > can't pull the raw data from the field, but must use import/export > commands to get at it. If you user GetChunk on an attachment field, > you get data you cannot use. > > < Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this > is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat > from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to > subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked.>> > > I was strictly speaking about storing objects within a DB, not data > operations. Nothing has changed there. Deleted space is still not > reclaimed until a compact. > > Bloat from OLE objects was due to a wrapper placed around an > object, > which often yielded a size that was 2 or 3x the original object size. > That no longer exists with the attachment field type. > > And in regards to your tables, I'd put them in a temp DB and access > them > via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can create the > temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables in the > current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in the temp > DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Re: "I'm not sure what you mean by not backward-compatible" > Meaning exactly what you said. > Re: "... the data is compressed" > Do you know how it's compressed? More than a Zip? > Re: "...bloating DB's is a thing of the past" > Boy, it hasn't been a thing of the past in my experience. Maybe this > is grist for another mill, but I am constantly contending with bloat > from reusing tables (in A2007); ie; I have fixed tables bound to > subforms that get flushed and refilled each time a tab is clicked. > Although no more than a few records each, I can watch the file size > increase a few kb as I click back and forth. I still have to rely on > Compact/Repair to control the bloat. > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not > the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the > object. And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a > thing of the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it > or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend with the > ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; > store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be > deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 15 18:01:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:01:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: , <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com>, Message-ID: <4DD05B2D.29410.2246FDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Never seen it done that way before (wrapping the associated application in a RunDLL). I just Declare ShellExecute in a "General Functions" module: Public Declare Function ShellExecute Lib "SHELL32.DLL" Alias "ShellExecuteA" (ByVal hwnd As Long, ByVal lpOperation As String, _ ByVal lpFile As String, ByVal lpParameters As String, ByVal lpDirectory As String, ByVal nShowCmd As Long) As Long and then use: If (MaterialName > "") Then If (Dir$(BEDir() & "LibMat\" & MaterialName) > "") Then ShellExecute Application.hWndAccessApp, "Open", BEDir() _ & "LibMat\" & MaterialName, "", "", vbNormalFocus Else MsgBox MaterialName & " is missing from the LibMat directory!",,strAppTitle MaterialName = "" DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord End If End If -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 15:16, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I use the following to open the file: > > If IsNull(Me.txtPicture) Then Exit Sub > Shell "RunDLL32.EXE shell32.dll,ShellExec_RunDLL " & > Me.txtPicture, > vbMaximizedFocus > > Where Me.txtPicture contains the path and file name of the target. > > The file is opened by the application to which the file extension is > associated. So if there's a pdf in txtPicture it opens with Reader, > .doc file opens with Word, etc. I suppose you could stash the path > and file name of an .mdb file and it would open in Access. > > Of course, if they move the file, the link is broken. I suppose I > should put a FIleExists check before the Shell and give a freindly > message if the file's not there. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Jim & Rocky, > > What I like about the Attachment object is that: > 1. it handles multiple files; > 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since > the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are > moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed > a way to mimic that functionality through links? > > Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves > thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the > record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is > displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I > wrong? > > -DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS > SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. > Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but > then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to > initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to > record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database > was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. > > My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the > picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do > that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive > file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of > the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in > the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you > store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db > somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of > having the one set not be the same as the other set. > > Still voting for keeping them outside. > > However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be > stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your > experiments reveal. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use > Attachments? > > I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary > data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are > experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have > associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many > photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their > arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, > simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. > So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. > > A. > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman > wrote: > > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a > > new > > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper > > around > the object. > > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > > the past. > > > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > > Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM To: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Should I use > > Attachments? > > > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that > > it's a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few > > years ago and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table > > would range from a few hundred to a couple thousand records per > > client. I'll be deploying > the app as a runtime. > > > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > > > Thanx, > > DB > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 15 19:43:28 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:43:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201105160043.p4G0hbnG002073@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Arthur. Sometimes the only way I have found to fix this is to import all of the forms objects and controls into a new form. That often fixes the issue. It is usually less painful that is sounds as well. cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, 16 May 2011 2:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem I have a tabbed form with several pages containing subforms, and one or two containing sub-subforms. Everything used to work fine but now suddenly when I open the form, one or more of the tab-pages is blank. It's not consistent either: sometimes only the first page is visible and all the others blank; other times all pages but the last one are visible. In design mode, everything appears normal. I even checked the visible properties on the forms and they are all set to Visible. I'm baffled. Any ideas, anyone? Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 15 20:43:54 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 18:43:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <005b01cc134a$ea7a4110$bf6ec330$@com> Message-ID: <96E9AA61353E4A7081100F4D5F994A89@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Darrell: In this particular sample it is a piece of code called everytime the user moves to a new record and the directory can be any place even an html site. ... iPhotograph = GetPictureDirectory() & lEmployeeNumber & ".jpg" If Len(Dir(iPhotograph)) = 0 Then iPhotograph = gsDefaultPhotographDir & "untitled.jpg" ... 'Then in an image object on the form, in this case named PhotoImage... PhotoImage.Picture = iPhotograph(lngEmployeeNumber) I hope this is what you are queying. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean by "not backward-compatible". It's a new > feature and did not exist in prior versions, so yes, it would not be > available in JET (it's an ACE only feature). > > As far as performance, I have not heard anything in that regard. > It's not the same animal as an OLE field; there is no OLE wrapper around the object. > And the data is compressed to boot. So bloating DB's is a thing of > the past. > > However because of that, you just can't pull the raw data out and > move it or use it in some other way. Also, you still must contend > with the ACE DB limit of 2GB. > > Given all that, I would still do it the traditional way as Rocky > said; store a path in the DB and keep everything outside of the DB. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 08:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an > Asset table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for > what I want to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one > caveat is that it's not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's > a performance drag. (I tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago > and quickly abandoned that approach). The Asset table would range from > a few hundred to a couple thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros & cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 16 02:01:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:01:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Message-ID: Hi Doug You could store the attachments in a single table in a separate database with a unique key. Then you don't need to read from the attachments' table except when you need an attachment and this will be identified with its unique key. Possible bloating will be kept in that table too. Perfect if the boss won't allow discrete attachment files. /gustav >>> dhb at flsi.com 15-05-2011 23:56 >>> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 16 02:19:24 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:19:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Message-ID: Hi Stuart It's a bit more sporty to create a separate temp database and tables from scratch with DAO. It is faster than copying a file. Initially, of course, it requires a bit more code but for people like you that's more or less a copy-n-paste experience. That said, for a POS setup - where, as you know, "everything" can happen - we use a nearly locked down Windows which doesn't much more than booting, connecting the network and printers, downloading the FE and launching this. When/if "something" happens or "doesn't work", just ask the clerk to reboot. Simple but brings peace for years! /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 16-05-2011 00:17 >>> Another solution to Bloat is to use a split FE/BE and open you app via a cmd/batch file which copies a clean FE from a central location and then runs it. Slightly slower to open the app, but you then have your temp tables in the FE which will make then faster to use. -- Stuart On 15 May 2011 at 14:24, Darrell Burns wrote: > Jim, > < them via links, then kill the DB when you exit the app. You can > create the temp DB easily enough by storing templates for the tables > in the current DB and using transferdatabase to create the tables in > the temp DB.>> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 06:18:19 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 07:18:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No. They all load at once. I have previously used JIT in other apps but in this one I didn't. Arthur On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you loading the subforms JIT? > > Charlotte Foust > > > From dhb at flsi.com Mon May 16 06:41:25 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 04:41:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001601cc13be$3085f0a0$9191d1e0$@com> Hi Gustav. Great idea...I'll do that. Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 12:02 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Hi Doug You could store the attachments in a single table in a separate database with a unique key. Then you don't need to read from the attachments' table except when you need an attachment and this will be identified with its unique key. Possible bloating will be kept in that table too. Perfect if the boss won't allow discrete attachment files. /gustav >>> dhb at flsi.com 15-05-2011 23:56 >>> Jim & Rocky, What I like about the Attachment object is that: 1. it handles multiple files; 2. the user only has to dbl-click, select a file, and open; 3. since the images are stored in the DB it doesn't matter if the files are moved, renamed, or deleted. Have you guys (or anybody else) developed a way to mimic that functionality through links? Re: Jim's point about the the image being retrieved as the user moves thru the records...does ACE actually retrieve the image when the record becomes current? It appears that only the file count is displayed and the image isn't retrieved til the user dbl-clicks. Am I wrong? -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? We went through this issue many times, from MS Access to Oracle and MS SQL databases and keeping the images external is always faster. Sometimes we had to store the images internal to the database but then, when working in Oracle forms, a button had to be added to initiate the image loading...if someone just flitted from record to record the impact of an image being retrieved from the actual database was show stopper...and this would impact every user on the system. My vote is to store them external and enjoy the performance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? Even inside the database don't you need some way to identify the picture - a title or caption? So renaming the jpgs is one way to do that and so the combo box to select the picture has those descriptive file names. Or in the table where you store the path and file name of the picture you let the user enter a short description which shows in the combo box. Either way the photos stay outside the db. If you store them in the db, the photos will still be stored outside the db somewhere. If they exist in two places that opens up possibilities of having the one set not be the same as the other set. Still voting for keeping them outside. However, I am interested in whether or not a graphic file can now be stored in a db without bloating it. Please let us know what your experiments reveal. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? I've been toying with this new feature, which is basically a binary data type which a built-in compressor/decompressor. A client and I are experimenting with it, for one basic reason: a given record might have associated with it anywhere from 2 to 60 photos. Having that many photos living in some directory somewhere, especially given their arbitrary names, can quickly become quite a hassle. On the other hand, simply specifying the path to a given client's photos seems workable. So I don't yet know which method we'll choose. A. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 16 08:29:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:29:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? In-Reply-To: <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <2D05EFA30480452C89BD280ACF0962E6@XPS> <002601cc1176$d63eba30$82bc2e90$@winhaven.net> <74DBE5A5D7774683A48BDEA2CF89E3D3@XPS> <003b01cc1294$e3c43c10$ab4cb430$@com> <003d01cc1297$93b02ce0$bb1086a0$@com> <001801cc1328$6050a820$20f1f860$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4DD126BD.7020405@colbyconsulting.com> And storing them in SQL Server is different from storing them in Access. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/15/2011 1:48 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Darrell, > > I worked with a client who had a database and was using the attachment > fields type to store documents. The form with those fields was really slow, > painfully slow. I was not able to prove that this field type was the > problem, but suggested that we store the documents separately in a document > directory. The owner of the company wanted the documents in the database and > for other reasons wanted to upgrade the back end to sql server. We did this > and I stored the documents in binary format in sql server and the speed went > up dramatically. > > I can't prove that attachment fields are slow, but that is my assumption. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 5:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Should I use Attachments? > > New subject: my client wants to link PDF documents to records in an Asset > table in an A2007 app. The attachment data type is perfect for what I want > to do, but I've heard bad things about it. I know one caveat is that it's > not backward-compatible. I've also heard that it's a performance drag. (I > tried using OLE fields in A2000 a few years ago and quickly abandoned that > approach). The Asset table would range from a few hundred to a couple > thousand records per client. I'll be deploying the app as a runtime. > > I'd be interested in hearing the pros& cons of attachments. > > Thanx, > DB > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 16 08:45:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:45:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> If you moved them from Access to SQL Server they are going to fail. You probably want to switch to a dao database (currentdb) and use db.Execute strSQL, dbSeeChanges. BTW this will allow you to use db.recordsaffected to check and/or log results of the updates. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/15/2011 12:38 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I've got some update queries in an app that I run using DoCmd.RunSQL. These > queries have been working successfully for years, but now suddenly I'm > getting an error message that says I must use an updatable query. The really > odd thing is that I recreated one of them and saved it as a named query, and > it runs fine. I've tried compact and repair without luck. > > Has anyone got any idea what may have caused this, and how I can fix it? > > TIA, > Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 08:59:54 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:59:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Queries suddenly not updatable? In-Reply-To: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD12A62.3070602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I didn't move them. I haven't changed anything. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:45 AM, jwcolby wrote: > If you moved them from Access to SQL Server they are going to fail. You > probably want to switch to a dao database (currentdb) and use db.Execute > strSQL, dbSeeChanges. BTW this will allow you to use db.recordsaffected to > check and/or log results of the updates. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon May 16 10:43:27 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:43:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for you. Charlotte Foust On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:18 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > No. They all load at once. I have previously used JIT in other apps but in > this one I didn't. > > Arthur > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > >> Are you loading the subforms JIT? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon May 16 10:48:13 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:48:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes > sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens > faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste > time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the > other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for > you. > > Charlotte Foust > > From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 16 15:31:29 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:31:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue Message-ID: I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From bheid at sc.rr.com Mon May 16 16:11:47 2011 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:11:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit In-Reply-To: <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> Message-ID: <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> I am using .Net (ASP.Net/VB.Net) to read Excel files. The 2010 Access runtime (which is what I thought we were talking about) has the OLEDB drivers that I am using to do this and the runtime comes in comes both 32 and 64-bit versions. That is what I was originally pointing out. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 10:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Sorry Bobby, but what do you mean you aren't using Access? Isn't that what we're talking about? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 6:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit We are not using Access. I was using the OLEDB drivers to access Excel. Did not mean to imply that the 32-bit version would not run On 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit I have the same OS as you and was able to execute my 2007 runtime (based on accde), but probably because I had installed the 32-bit version of Office 2010. -DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit FYI. We are using the runtime at work on Windows 2008 R2 (64-bit only) and had to switch to the 64-bit version of the runtime so that the website I was working on can import Excel spreadsheets via OLEDB and .Net 4.0. The 32-bit version would not work on Windows Server 2008 R2. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Hmmm...so if the 32-bit runtime works in any environment, is there any advantage to the 64 version? And would it run on a 32-bit machine? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:25 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit There is a 64-bit Access 2010 runtime: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=57A350CD-5250-4D F6-BFD1-6CED700A6715&displaylang=en Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit For folks who may face this situation that originated this thread. I have an Access 2002 runtime working on a Windows 7 64 machine in parallel with a full install of Office 10. This the 32 bit version of Office not 64. As others have said, stay away from Office 2010 64. So if you have an Access application to run on a machine with the 64 bit version of Office I'd suggest using the runtime for whatever version of Access the application was developed in. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit But that isn't what was asked, what was asked is if you could Uninstall Access x64 (leaving the rest of Office x64 in place), and then installing just Access 32 bit. I don't think it will let that happen. Of course, I'm not expert on this, I haven't tried doing it, but it's an well educated guess that it won't work. Installing the run time may or may not work, I am not sure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Drew, I don't think that is correct. The runtime will install in the x86 programs directory. This should work just like installing two different versions of Access on the same machine. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit No, not on the same machine. You could install 64 bit on the machine, and then 32 bit in a virtual machine (like XP Mode for Windows 7), but the two cannot co-exist on the same computer. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Just to be clear on this, if I install Office 2010 64-bit I get Access 64-bit and if I install Office 2010 32-bit I get Access 32-bit, right? Is it possible to uninstall Access 64-bit and substitute Access 2010 32-bit? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Well Access 2010 x64 IS 64 bit, CODE WISE, so if you create a Long integer, it is a 64 bit number. They just didn't create a 64 bit Database inside it... yet. Because a 64 bit database would be unusable to a 32 bit version of Access. That wouldn't fly at all, it's one thing for the interface to not work between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, but for the data to be unusable between version would never fly. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Thanx to all of you who jumped in on this thread. I don't know why my client installed Office 64-bit. Regardless of why, that's what they've got and there ain't nothin I can do about it. What I wasn't aware of is that Access 2010 is NOT 64-bit. Anyway, I found the reason why my runtime app won't work...because I converted it to accde first. According to TechNet: "Databases that have had their source code removed (such as .mde, .ade, and .accde files) cannot be moved between 32-bit and 64-bit editions of Office 2010. Such databases that are created by using 32-bit Office (any version) can be used only with 32-bit Office, and a database that is created on 64-bit Office can be used only on 64-bit Office." So, if A2010 is 32-bit does that mean even if I create an accde from A2010 and package as a runtime it still won't run in Office 64? --DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit What did you install it on? On a NICE system, it does perform better than 32 bit Offices. But the true 'performance' is the ability to go beyond the 32 bit restrictions. But it looks like Access 2010 is stuck with the 2007 Access db version, so it doesn't have a 64 bit database version. (Imagine 64 bit integer fields, a 64 bit Currency field!!!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit Problems. Little if any support for 3rd party add-ins, Active X controls, etc. I installed it once (MSDN) and it made no difference in performance so I canned it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit John, >> Microsoft does everything they can to encourage people not to use it. >> << Fascinating. Why is that? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:35 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Darrell, > I'd be interested in the reason they use 64 bit Office. Microsoft does > everything they can to encourage people not to use it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 32 vs 64-bit > > Hello. I developed a 32-bit Access 2007 app with VBA code that uses > DAO exclusively for data access and has no add-ins. My client has > Windows 7 64-bit PCs running Office 2010 64-bit. I delivered the app > as a 2007 runtime package and it didn't work at their place. > The app runs fine on my WinServer2008 machine with Office 2010 32-bit, > but I haven't tested it under Office 2010 64-bit. > Since my other clients are still operating in the 32-bit world, I > can't abandon the 32-bit version. > Is there a way to satisfy both worlds with just one version? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon May 16 16:29:06 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 14:29:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A523A43088A40789ADAD01D2D9A367F@HAL9005> Yeah, tab forms and subforms sometimes don't resize right with the ADH code - although I've never found anything better. On tab and subform forms I'll set up variables for the size and location - sub-forms only seem to need height adjusted: Dim sglSubFormHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesTop As Single Dim sglTabPagesWidth As Single Dim sglTabPagesLeft As Single I modified the resizing code to put the x and y resizing factors into global variable gsglFactorX and gsglFactorY. Then in the open event where I'm doing the resizing I save the values of those properties, resize, and then force the sizes of those objects : sglSubFormHeight = Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height sglTabPagesHeight = Me.TabPages.Height sglTabPagesTop = Me.TabPages.Top sglTabPagesWidth = Me.TabPages.Width sglTabPagesLeft = Me.TabPages.Left Application.Echo False Call adhScaleForm(Me, 800, 600, 96, 96, rctOriginal) If DLookup("TurnScreenResizingOff", "tblPreferences") = False Then Me.TabPages.Height = sglTabPagesHeight * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Top = sglTabPagesTop * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Width = sglTabPagesWidth * gsglFactorX Me.TabPages.Left = sglTabPagesLeft * gsglFactorX Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height = sglSubFormHeight * gsglFactorY End If HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 1:31 PM To: Access Developers Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 16 16:35:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <5A523A43088A40789ADAD01D2D9A367F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <3115EEDDD3ED48DDAC8AF91549FFD75A@Dell> Thanks -- that's a lot of help. I'll give it a try. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Yeah, tab forms and subforms sometimes don't resize right with the ADH code - although I've never found anything better. On tab and subform forms I'll set up variables for the size and location - sub-forms only seem to need height adjusted: Dim sglSubFormHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesHeight As Single Dim sglTabPagesTop As Single Dim sglTabPagesWidth As Single Dim sglTabPagesLeft As Single I modified the resizing code to put the x and y resizing factors into global variable gsglFactorX and gsglFactorY. Then in the open event where I'm doing the resizing I save the values of those properties, resize, and then force the sizes of those objects : sglSubFormHeight = Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height sglTabPagesHeight = Me.TabPages.Height sglTabPagesTop = Me.TabPages.Top sglTabPagesWidth = Me.TabPages.Width sglTabPagesLeft = Me.TabPages.Left Application.Echo False Call adhScaleForm(Me, 800, 600, 96, 96, rctOriginal) If DLookup("TurnScreenResizingOff", "tblPreferences") = False Then Me.TabPages.Height = sglTabPagesHeight * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Top = sglTabPagesTop * gsglFactorY Me.TabPages.Width = sglTabPagesWidth * gsglFactorX Me.TabPages.Left = sglTabPagesLeft * gsglFactorX Me.subfrmWorkOrderAutomation_Create.Height = sglSubFormHeight * gsglFactorY End If HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 1:31 PM To: Access Developers Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at airtelmail.in Mon May 16 23:29:53 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 09:59:53 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: Message-ID: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From cjlabs at att.net Tue May 17 11:01:26 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:01:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> Message-ID: <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 17 14:56:09 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:56:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> References: , <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede>, <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. The query that I wish to union appears: SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: cjlabs at att.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:01:26 -0500 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. > > Now to change all the rest of them. . . . > > > Thanks, > Carolyn Johnson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: A.D. Tejpal > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > > Carolyn, > > Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: > http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 > > Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). > > Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: > (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. > (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. > (c) Combo box and list box. > (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. > (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. > (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. > > Note: > ------ > (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. > (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. > > Best wishes, > A.D. Tejpal > ------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: cjlabs > To: Access Developers > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 > Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue > > > I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. > > I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. > > If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). > > I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. > > Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? > > TIA > Carolyn Johnson > St Louis MO > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 15:13:58 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:13:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> Message-ID: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue May 17 15:34:28 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 13:34:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com><002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <04AAC98C730C47279120E563898AB16C@HAL9005> What kind of control? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 16:11:18 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:11:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <000901cc14d6$f71076f0$e53164d0$@cox.net> How about the "On Dbl Click" event for the control? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 17 16:18:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:18:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <4DD2E62D.3000402@colbyconsulting.com> Double click on the control? ;) Or call the doubleclick function from code in the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 4:13 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 16:37:10 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:37:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to make the subroutine public. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 17 16:40:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:40:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > From darren at activebilling.com.au Tue May 17 16:56:59 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 07:56:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> Message-ID: <000001cc14dd$59c28530$0d478f90$@activebilling.com.au> Hi Darrell Assume you have a text box called txtLastName on a form called frmEmployees. Assume on that form is a routine that displays a message box on the double click of that field. Private Sub txtLastName_DblClick (Cancel As Integer) MsgBox "Hi this is the Last Name text box from the employees form", vbInformation, "Last Name DoubleClick" End Sub Ok - Cool - Assume you have a command button (called Command2) on the same form and you want the double click of the LastName text box to 'fire' when the button is clicked, do something like this... Private Sub Command2_Click() txtLastName_DblClick -1 End Sub (the minus one bit above is to satisfy the "Cancel as integer" param on the DoubleClick routine) Now...if you want the double click routine on the Lastname field to be 'fired' from a button called 'Command1' on another form you could do this... First change the status of the Private Sub routine on the LastName double click into a Public Sub - like this... Public Sub txtLastName_DblClick(Cancel As Integer) ''<--note it is public sub now MsgBox "Hi this is the Last Name text box", vbInformation, "Last Name DoubleClick" End Sub Private Sub Command1_Click()''<---not this should be on a totally different form Forms("frmEmployeesform1").txtLastName_DblClick -1 End Sub There probably are better ways of handling this and the gurus here will suggest them. This has worked for me a zillion times. Now, having said all that if the information in this control that is to be double clicked is being 'fired' or called from another place you may want to give somethought to moving the doubleclick code/logic into a more public place, like in a module etc. Hope it makes sense - See ya Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 6:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? Thx, -Darrell -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 17 17:24:08 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 15:24:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001a01cc14e1$23d8a720$6b89f560$@cox.net> Maybe my terminology is incorrect. I was referring to the subroutine created for the event, you can make that public, or at least remove the Private designation. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger > from code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in > the event stub and then call it from where ever you want by the > subroutine name, e.g., sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from > outside the form you need to make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell > Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 19:55:07 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:55:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <00f301cc14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> Thanx to everybody for replying. I'm just responding to the most recent post. I have an Attachment control on a form. The control is named Asset_Attachment. I want the built-in Attachment dialog box to spring open as soon as I open the form. The only way I know to make that dialog appear is by dbl-clicking Asset_Attachment. I tried inserting Asset_Attachment_DblClick (-1) in the Form_Open event but I got a "Sub or function not defined" compile error. Is there a way to send those mouse-clicks to the control? Thx, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 17 20:16:17 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 18:16:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control In-Reply-To: <00f301cc14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> References: <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com> <000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <000901cc129c$1f65b8a0$5e3129e0$@rr.com> <004301cc12ac$1c468400$54d38c00$@com> <002a01cc140d$de357f00$9aa07d00$@rr.com> <00ba01cc14ce$f50473f0$df0d5bd0$@com> <001301cc14da$958af640$c0a0e2c0$@cox.net> <4DD2EB61.2010804@colbyconsulting.com> <00f301c c14f6$3be6e600$b3b4b200$@com> Message-ID: <00f701cc14f9$30c01a50$92404ef0$@com> Doh! I figured it out...didn't need to double-click. All I needed to do was send a space key... DoCmd.GoToControl "Asset_Attachment" SendKeys " " Thanx! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 5:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control Thanx to everybody for replying. I'm just responding to the most recent post. I have an Attachment control on a form. The control is named Asset_Attachment. I want the built-in Attachment dialog box to spring open as soon as I open the form. The only way I know to make that dialog appear is by dbl-clicking Asset_Attachment. I tried inserting Asset_Attachment_DblClick (-1) in the Form_Open event but I got a "Sub or function not defined" compile error. Is there a way to send those mouse-clicks to the control? Thx, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control I don't think you can directly make an event stub public. You would have to build a public sub which called the event stub. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/17/2011 5:37 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Maybe I didn't read your question correctly. Do you want to trigger from > code or on the actual event? If from code, just put your code in the event > stub and then call it from where ever you want by the subroutine name, e.g., > sub controlName_dblClick. If your calling from outside the form you need to > make the subroutine public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Force a dblclick event on a form control > > Anybody know how I could trigger a dbl-click event on a form control? > Thx, > -Darrell > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at airtelmail.in Tue May 17 23:08:53 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:38:53 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede> <854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: You are most welcome Carolyn! Nice of you to provide the confirmation regarding successful outcome. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 21:31 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 17 23:48:08 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:48:08 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. Message-ID: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Everyone, If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but I am not that hopeful :-/ If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. cheers Darryl. _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 18 00:14:51 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 15:14:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The triumph of form over function yet again. MS would much rather have it "look pretty" than "be practical". As far as I know, you're stuck with it. -- Stuart On 18 May 2011 at 14:48, Darryl Collins wrote: > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde > world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane > and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details > were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and > useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several > lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor > I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make > the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the > nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make > a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched > up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - > STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB > objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. > Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such > a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they > want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the > instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but > I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 > levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > ______________________________________________________________________ From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 18 00:48:35 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 22:48:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Darryl, Your mantra should be, "Designed for end users who don't understand what they need." Keep repeating it until numbness sets in! Charlotte Foust On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > Hi Everyone, > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. ?In ye olde world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane and this was fine. ?The DB object icons were small and the details were displayed on a single line per object. ?Nice and tight and useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. ?I figure that streeeeeeching the nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - STUPID! ?I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. ?Sheesh. ?Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? ?I find it such a backward step in productivity. ?Sure let folks dock the pane if they want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) ?urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed May 18 00:49:19 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 15:49:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com>, <4DD355CB.25953.DC77279@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105180551.p4I5pBev004265@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha, yeah, it seems like it. "form over function" for sure. I used to be able to sort by mod date with a single click. Now it is a lot of stuffing around with the mouse and scrolling thru pages of db objects because you can only view a handful at a time. What a right PITA. Productivity just went 'plurk!' ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan [stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. The triumph of form over function yet again. MS would much rather have it "look pretty" than "be practical". As far as I know, you're stuck with it. -- Stuart On 18 May 2011 at 14:48, Darryl Collins wrote: > > If anyone has A2010 and can help it would be apprecaited. In ye olde > world of A2003 I would always use the 'detailed' view in the Nav pane > and this was fine. The DB object icons were small and the details > were displayed on a single line per object. Nice and tight and > useful, but in A2010 using the detailed view makes each entry several > lines long and takes up too much darn space - even on a decent monitor > I can only see a few of the hundreds of objects and you cannot make > the pane bigger or smaller to suit.. I figure that streeeeeeching the > nav pane to the right would fix that and give Access the space to make > a single line of data, but no, All the meta details still stay bunched > up on the LHS of the pane and the RHS is just a huge blank space - > STUPID! I hate that fixed nav pane in A2010. > > I can swith to list view, which makes the size usable for all the DB > objects, but then you lose all visibility on the important stuff. > Sheesh. Who designed this nonsense and who UAT'd it?? I find it such > a backward step in productivity. Sure let folks dock the pane if they > want, but letting it float was always a good idea IMHO. > > Anyway, I am hoping I am just a big whinger who didn't read the > instructions and I can mod the Nav pane to get the view required, but > I am not that hopeful :-/ > > If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 > levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. > > cheers > Darryl. > ______________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 18 02:39:39 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:39:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names Message-ID: Hi J?rgen Weird. Try adding DISTINCT: SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. /gustav >>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. The query that I wish to union appears: SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From cjlabs at att.net Wed May 18 06:59:41 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 06:59:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede><854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: In case it's of interest, I have/had 2 forms with issues. I have a option group with a label attached to the frame -- that label's font size is too large and it's location is too far right (to the right instead of left of the frame). I deleted the label and created a new one that was not associated with the frame, and it's OK. I have another form with 2 subforms, that are both datasheet view. The 2 subforms' font size is increased, but the row height is not, so you cannot read the text. You can, however, manually increase the row height. The other 35 forms in the database that use resizing work great. I disabled the double click code. I have a main form switchboard (that actually has several levels of hierarchy) and double-clicking the screen activates the button handler. Thanks again, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue You are most welcome Carolyn! Nice of you to provide the confirmation regarding successful outcome. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 21:31 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue I've used Form_Resize on several on the forms, including the problem form and another form with a tab control, and they look great (ie, normal) in 2010. Have to do a little tweaking, but that's nothing compared to having a tab control mangled beyond use by 2010. Now to change all the rest of them. . . . Thanks, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D. Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue Carolyn, Amongst various alternatives, my sample db named Form_Resize (in access 2003 file format, reference: DAO 3.6), might be of interest to you It is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Apart from automatic resizing to suit current screen resolution, the sample offers custom resizing (up or down in steps of 5 percent) of any given form, if so desired by the user, with the option to freeze the custom size so that thereafter the form opens to custom size (over-riding the size dictated by actual resolution). At any stage the behavior can be reset to normal (i.e. automatic resizing to suit current resolution). Resizing is effected through a self contained class. Six styles of demo forms are included in the sample as follows: (a) Simple controls - all free to float and resize. (b) Simple controls - with certain controls having tag property settings for locking their position and / or size. (c) Combo box and list box. (d) Nested subforms - Continuous. (e) Nested subforms - Datasheet. (f) Tab control having (i) Nested subforms and (ii) Option group. Also - an option group directly on the form. Note: ------ (a) The sample db has also been tested successfully on Access 2010. Resize behavior of tab controls on access 2010 is found to be different from that in access 2003 and the resize class in sample db duly caters for this peculiarity. (b) It is observed that use of Times New Roman font provides most pleasing results. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 02:01 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue I have a form with a tab control that has worked normally for years in Access 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2007. It has text boxes, list boxes, labels and buttons on each of the 7 pages on the tab control. I use ADH scaling code (been using it since Access97) and it has always worked fine. On this particular form in Access2010, the scaling is screwed up -- the tab control is much wider than it should be, so that the rest of the controls end up in the wrong location and some are off screen. I have other forms with similar tab controls in this database that scale correctly. If I do not use the scaling code, the form appears normal (just small). I've tried creating a new form and pasting the controls and code into it. I've tried decompilng. Has anyone seen this behavior? Any suggestions? TIA Carolyn Johnson St Louis MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 07:13:37 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 08:13:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. References: <201105180448.p4I4mF1Y029220@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 07:45:49 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 08:45:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Shortcut for VBE Message-ID: Does anyone know of a shortcut key for displaying the Object or Procedure controls' dropdown lists? Thanks! Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed May 18 08:35:52 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:35:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Nevermind (Fw: Shortcut for VBE) Message-ID: <7996DAF5FF0B41CF846423D57014AAD6@SusanHarkins> It's Ctrl+F2 Does anyone know of a shortcut key for displaying the Object or Procedure controls' dropdown lists? Thanks! Susan H. From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed May 18 08:58:51 2011 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:58:51 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT position available Message-ID: Hello All, A former co-worker reached out to me about a position they were trying to fill. Since I am happy in my current position (and don't want to go to Chicago) I thought I would pass this on to the list in case anyone is looking. Thanks, Mark A. Matte. P.S...if interested you can contact Tina (Tina.Biancalana at searshc.com) \******************************** Job Title Sr. Analyst, IM Systems & Support ? Reporting Business Corporate - Supply Chain State or Province/City IL Hoffman Estates Company Sears Holdings Management Corp Years Experience: 2 - 5 Years Experience Preferred Minimum Education: BS required. CS or MIS degree desired. Travel Requirements: None Requisition ID 94304BR To view full job description, please search Careerbuilder.com for requisition ID 94304BR or Sears Holdings. Minimum requirements: Software: SQL Server, Teradata, Access, Excel Programming Languages: SQL, VB From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed May 18 11:16:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, that could be the problem. Charlotte Foust On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi J?rgen > > Weird. > Try adding DISTINCT: > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. ?For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. ?Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. ?Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. ?Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. ?The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > I have 31 alias names in the table. ?28 of them work. ?3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > If I add a column to the select statement: ?[LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. ?If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. ?We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. ?The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. ?I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. ?There are no names with apostrophes. ?Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. ?It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. ?If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed May 18 13:07:02 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:07:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed May 18 13:29:55 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 11:29:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limitedbudget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com><003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <407B5AC805FE4FE6922DE5953EDC7991@HAL9005> Brad: Check out www.e-z-mrp.com. Might be exactly what you need. It's in Access 2003. If interested, call me and we'll talk. Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limitedbudget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed May 18 13:34:28 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:34:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> Message-ID: <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 18 15:13:26 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the last name field to the query as an additional column displays the last name. There are records in the main table associated with the alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or the full proper name). SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID yeilds 12 Brad Card Card Brad 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim 2344 Rick Mackie Rick 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name first mode. Gustav: Distinct did not work. I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where none should be required. I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: ?1=1 ?2=2 ?3=3 ?4=4 One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to determine whether they continue to fail. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, > that could be the problem. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > Hi J?rgen > > > > Weird. > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed May 18 18:57:33 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:57:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From adtp at airtelmail.in Wed May 18 22:34:35 2011 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:04:35 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] another tab control issue References: <9FE8F0381BA64032849E78264C187137@personal4a8ede><854C1C0114D141EC9B0B6AE72932E16A@Dell> Message-ID: <36E8B29C8A0D42B5BA4560C6BD73D2F9@personal4a8ede> Carolyn, Existing version of form resize class has certain arbitrary upper & lower limits on datasheet row height. If you are in a position to put together a skeleton db containing the two problem forms along with their associated objects, I could look into it further - so as to ascertain whether further fine tuning of the class is called for. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: cjlabs To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 17:29 Subject: Re: [AccessD] another tab control issue In case it's of interest, I have/had 2 forms with issues. I have a option group with a label attached to the frame -- that label's font size is too large and it's location is too far right (to the right instead of left of the frame). I deleted the label and created a new one that was not associated with the frame, and it's OK. I have another form with 2 subforms, that are both datasheet view. The 2 subforms' font size is increased, but the row height is not, so you cannot read the text. You can, however, manually increase the row height. The other 35 forms in the database that use resizing work great. I disabled the double click code. I have a main form switchboard (that actually has several levels of hierarchy) and double-clicking the screen activates the button handler. Thanks again, Carolyn From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed May 18 23:34:10 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 21:34:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu May 19 06:51:41 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 06:51:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net> <91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> Message-ID: <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu May 19 07:50:26 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 05:50:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Ah, programmer's full employment act of 2011. Nice. :) I'm at the other end - companies in the startup to $20,000,000 range - what I call the bottom 90% of the market - or independent subsidiaries or internal projects of larger companies. Intel uses E-Z-MRP at their facility up in Oregon for example. And Philips Medical has a captive supplier in China using it as part of their supply chain management system. Just fishing for some possibilities of working together. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu May 19 08:00:16 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 08:00:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget In-Reply-To: References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> Try taking a look at www.enterpriseminnesota.org. They are a consulting group focused on helping small MN Manufacturing companies grow, and at least some of their clients are in your size range. I subscribe to their free magazine sort of with the intent to find potential customers, but the companies that are discussed are all too small to be interested in me. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Ah, programmer's full employment act of 2011. Nice. :) I'm at the other end - companies in the startup to $20,000,000 range - what I call the bottom 90% of the market - or independent subsidiaries or internal projects of larger companies. Intel uses E-Z-MRP at their facility up in Oregon for example. And Philips Medical has a captive supplier in China using it as part of their supply chain management system. Just fishing for some possibilities of working together. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for smallfirm withlimited budget Hi Rocky, Typically from 100 people and up. For a medical manufacturer I would expect that number to be lower because they are regulated by the FDA. I have a 'base' system that is used at all my customers, and I work with them to develop business process modules to match what they need to do. However, two of my customers realized that they wanted to expand beyond a LAN, so I'm now learning VB.Net to rewrite everything. It's going to take a long time, but one of my customers is willing to pay me while I do that. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Dan: What size manufacturing company uses your program? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm withlimited budget Hi Brad, I've been building systems to automate a wide variety of business processes for about 13 years, although I do not create ERP/MRP databases. I currently have 4 long-term customers which are all manufacturing companies. Take a look at www.promationsystems.com to see if this is the kind of thing you might be looking for. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Needed - Manufacturing System for small firm with limited budget All, I work part-time as the solo IT person for a small manufacturing company (less than 50 employees). Currently the manufacturing process is controlled by a home-grown "system" that has evolved over the years. This system is based on paper forms and spreadsheets. The current process gets the job done, but has many shortcomings. Recently, discussions have begun regarding the need for improvements. The budget for software purchases is VERY limited, so bringing in something like Sage's MAS-90 is currently out of the question. (We use Sage's Business Works for general accounting). One option being discussed is to build new functionality with Access 2007 to augment the current process. With all of this as background, here are my questions... Are there any good, yet inexpensive manufacturing systems available for small firms? Are there any "Access Templates" available for manufacturing firms? I believe that building a small manufacturing system more or less from scratch would be a very time consuming project. I would rather not re-invent the wheel if possible. Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 19 10:57:30 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 11:57:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@! comcast.net> <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 19 12:03:22 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:03:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> References: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000801cc1646$a987e8c0$fc97ba40$@com> Hi Darryl, I feel your pain about the Nav window. It sux! Every time I open up a database I have to reset it to show last-to-first Mod Date sequence. Why can't it remember something as basic as that? Is there room on your soapbox for one more? Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu May 19 11:54:52 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:54:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names - Solved In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: When in table view, I tabbed into the FirstNameAlias field and replaced Rob with Rob and found that the query now included the last name as expected. I just about broke my head on this one. It turns out that the textbox where alias names are entered has the property for 'Enter Key Behavior' set to 'New Line in Field'. In the case of the three names that did not display, the data had been entered in two rows. Thus Rob had actually been entered as 'Rob' & vbcrlf & 'Rob'. Apparently this forced the query to display the last name field in the 2nd row and the query defalut display height is one row only. Changing the row height in the query view showed the last names in the 2nd row. Trim$ is used for the not in list procedure by which names are entered in the tables but allowing the enter key to add new rows in the alias sub form messed things up when users entered text both before and after an enter key. Needless to say I changed the Enter Key Behavior of the Alias Name text box and checked the rest of the data. All I needed to do is change the row height in the alias table view in order to see the problem records and I'm satisfied that everything now works as it should. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: jwelz at hotmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the last name field to the query as an additional column displays the last name. There are records in the main table associated with the alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or the full proper name). > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > yeilds > > 12 Brad Card Card Brad > 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim > 2344 Rick Mackie Rick > 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob > 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron > 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch > 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob > > I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. > > What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name first mode. > > Gustav: Distinct did not work. > > I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where none should be required. > > I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. > > It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: > > ?1=1 > ?2=2 > ?3=3 > ?4=4 > > One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. > > At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to determine whether they continue to fail. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If not, > > that could be the problem. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi J?rgen > > > > > > Weird. > > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form on the main form record. > > > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or both records as well as regional filters. > > > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee > > > FROM tblEmployeeAlias INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled why some work and some don't. There are no names with apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > > > Ciao > > > J?rgen Welz > > > Edmonton, Alberta > > > jwelz at hotmail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 19 15:56:59 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 06:56:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] People Alias Names - Solved In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DD5841B.12075.164C5AC1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've been bitten by a CRLF at the start of a text field a few times over the years as well. It's a b*tch, ain't it :-) -- Stuart On 19 May 2011 at 10:54, Jurgen Welz wrote: > > When in table view, I tabbed into the FirstNameAlias field and > replaced Rob with Rob and found that the query now included the last > name as expected. I just about broke my head on this one. > > It turns out that the textbox where alias names are entered has the > property for 'Enter Key Behavior' set to 'New Line in Field'. In the > case of the three names that did not display, the data had been > entered in two rows. Thus Rob had actually been entered as 'Rob' & > vbcrlf & 'Rob'. Apparently this forced the query to display the last > name field in the 2nd row and the query defalut display height is one > row only. Changing the row height in the query view showed the last > names in the 2nd row. Trim$ is used for the not in list procedure by > which names are entered in the tables but allowing the enter key to > add new rows in the alias sub form messed things up when users entered > text both before and after an enter key. > > Needless to say I changed the Enter Key Behavior of the Alias Name > text box and checked the rest of the data. All I needed to do is > change the row height in the alias table view in order to see the > problem records and I'm satisfied that everything now works as it > should. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > From: jwelz at hotmail.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:13:26 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > > > Charlotte: Yes there are last names for the records. Reversing the > > concatenations, the last name shows up correctly. Also, adding the > > last name field to the query as an additional column displays the > > last name. There are records in the main table associated with the > > alias table names since they show up as records on an equal join. > > The problem arises somewhere from the fact that one concatenated > > query field concatenates data from fields in different tables. The > > oddest thing, that also answers your question, is that if I display > > the last name first in the concatenation, all the names in the > > search combo display in their entirety. That is, if I select > > tbl1.LastName & ' ' & tbl2.Alias as one field and tbl2.Alias & ' ' & > > tbl1LastName as another field in the same query, the output is > > missing the last name in 3 of the concatenated records where the > > first name appears first, but it shows in all of the records where > > the last name appears first. Simply reversing the order of the > > concatenated fields changes the displayed output. What is also odd > > is that the space concatenated between the names also fails to > > appear. That is to say, the name Rick, where it appears, has a > > length of 4 and Rob as 3. There is an example of Rick where the > > contatenatation succeeds but there is no other example of Mitch (or > > the full proper name). > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.FirstNameAlias & ' ' > > & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee, [LastName] & ' ' & > > [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstNameAlias] AS Expr1 FROM tblEmployeeAlias > > INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = > > tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > yeilds > > > > 12 Brad Card Card Brad > > 432 Jim Jaybo Jaybo Jim > > 2344 Rick Mackie Rick > > 3444 Rob van der Hout Rob > > 4455 Ron Kay Kay Ron > > 5445 Mitch Blist Mitch > > 5987 Bob Kin Kin Bob > > > > I've also reversed the Inner Join order and sides of the comparison > > operator in the join to no avail. There is no numerical ID or first > > or last name alphabetical sequence in the success/failure to display > > the last name side of the concatenation in the 2nd column. > > > > What I get is 31 records returned. 28 records have the full first > > and last names in the first column but 3 with first name only. In > > the 3rd column all 31 records have both a last name and first name. > > These 31 records are unioned with the records from the tblEmployee > > to fill the employee search combo. I have various options to display > > regional, active, inactive and other types of employees and to show > > them by last name or by first name. Most people prefer the first > > name first approach and that is the one that doesn't consistently > > work. When I display last name first, I also concatenate a comma > > with the space to make it obvious and I change the combo back color > > to indicate that the not in list event will not fire in last name > > first mode. > > > > Gustav: Distinct did not work. > > > > I can fix this by adding the last name field to the Alias table and > > storing it for each alias entered. This denormalization would > > simplify the union query that fills the look up combo but would > > require me to maintain the last name in the alias table with edits > > to the main table last name. I lock the textbox displaying the names > > and require a click on an edit button for each field to be edited so > > I can control this, though I'd rather not have to code a fix where > > none should be required. > > > > I plan to extend the alias concept to other single field 'name' > > tables to accomodate things like company names (PCL = P.C.L. = P C L > > = P. C. L.) and equipment component names (Side Bracket = Outrigger > > = Out rigger = Hanger) but am perplexed by the odd inconsistent > > behavior of the query and am leery of future complications. > > > > It's as though I evaluated the following lines in the immediate > > window and all evaluated to true except the 3rd: > > > > ?1=1 > > ?2=2 > > ?3=3 > > ?4=4 > > > > One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I am using an MSAccess ODBC > > connection to tables in SQLServer 2005. > > > > At this point, I'm tempted to run a make table query to bring the > > data back to native access and populate all the data. I'll also try > > adding some additional aliases to the misbehaving records in situ to > > determine whether they continue to fail. > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:16:18 -0700 > > > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] People Alias Names > > > > > > Do you actually have any names associated with those aliases? If > > > not, that could be the problem. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gustav Brock > > > wrote: > > > > Hi J?rgen > > > > > > > > Weird. > > > > Try adding DISTINCT: > > > > > > > > SELECT DISTINCT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, .. > > > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> jwelz at hotmail.com 17-05-2011 21:56 >>> > > > > > > > > I've devised a method to allow users to select a person's record > > > > by an alias first name in a lookup combo and there appear to be > > > > some issues. For example, I have a fellow known as Willie whose > > > > payroll name is Guillermo and I need my users to be able to look > > > > up the user in a search combo. Choosing either Willie xxx or > > > > Guillermo xxx navigates the form to display the Guillermo > > > > record. Aliases include common misspellings such as Jurgen and > > > > Juergen for J?rgen. Alias names appear in a continuous sub form > > > > on the main form record. > > > > > > > > Assume a master record in tblEmployee with an autonumber primary > > > > key, EmployeeID and text FirstName and LastName fields. > > > > > > > > Assume an alias table that contains a foreign key pointing to > > > > the Employee record and a text FirstNameAlias field. > > > > > > > > The alias names are unioned to the employee names in the lookup > > > > combo. The combo displays full names being the FirstName & ' ' & > > > > LastName concatenation and there are options to load LastName & > > > > ' ' & FirstName and to include only active, only inactive or > > > > both records as well as regional filters. > > > > > > > > The query that I wish to union appears: > > > > > > > > SELECT tblEmployee.EmployeeID, tblEmployeeAlias.AliasFirstName & > > > > ' ' & tblEmployee.LastName AS Employee FROM tblEmployeeAlias > > > > INNER JOIN tblEmployee ON tblEmployeeAlias.EmployeeID = > > > > tblEmployee.EmployeeID > > > > > > > > I have 31 alias names in the table. 28 of them work. 3 don't in > > > > that the concatenation of the LastName doesn't happen. > > > > > > > > If I add a column to the select statement: [LastName] & ' ' & > > > > [tblEmployeeAlias].[FirstName] AS Expr1, the LastNames appear. > > > > If the select statement includes a column for LastName alone, it > > > > appears in the query so there is no problem with missing or null > > > > data and the join functions. We know it functions as the 3 alias > > > > names appear and a join failure would exclude those records. > > > > > > > > AliasFirstNames that don't show a concatenated last name are > > > > Rob, Rick and Mitch. The last name will not appear in the > > > > concatenation of the Alias table first name with primary record > > > > last name in the 3 records. I don't commonly do display > > > > concatenations of fields from different tables but am baffled > > > > why some work and some don't. There are no names with > > > > apostrophes. Common names like Mke and Ron work as do unusual > > > > name like mine which is commonly misspelled. It seems to make no > > > > difference if the first or last name is unique. If I reverse the > > > > order of the names in the concatenation, the Last Names show. > > > > > > > > Ciao > > > > J?rgen Welz > > > > Edmonton, Alberta > > > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Thu May 19 16:54:12 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:54:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. In-Reply-To: <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> References: <447F70A0A1F644D7A5417A295BD2134F@SusanHarkins> <201105182357.p4INvgdO002191@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <010c01cc166f$4b2245e0$e166d1a0$@activebilling.com.au> It's always time for coffee - with A2010 It's time for an IV Re the new layouts (Ribbons etc.) I watched all the disparaging comments from the world on the next forums etc. (and here too). Now I have office 2010 (outlook included) OMG What a PITA DD -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2011 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Thanks Everyone, Just for the record, here is the best I have found. Scroll to post#3 by Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP) http://www.utteraccess.com/forum/Access-2010-Navigation-t1966876.html More info and best of all, a semi decent replica of the A2003 Nav window which I actually downloaded and used yesterday (free). http://accessjunkie.com/faq_13.aspx Thanks for the 5 tips. For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about, goto Susan's link and look at Figure C. That is the only view you can get that shows the old 'detailed view'. And that is the only way it is displayed. I have over 200 forms in this database and the maximum amount shown in the nav pain in detailed view is 8 vs 26 in Access 2003. If you want to sort them by Mod date you need to do some mouse menu hopping rather than just pressing on the 'Mod date' title in A2003. Than Nav pane is also glued (stuck) to the LHS of the screen. Can't move it, can't undock it, can't resized it. anyway, I can feel myself getting on my soapbox. time for a coffee cheers darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 Nav Window Question. I don't think there's anything in here for ya, but it's short, so can't hurt. I've adjusted and most of the 2010 products, I prefer over 2003, but not Access. I'm still not comfortable in the accdb format. Susan H. > > Hi Everyone, >> If anyone can point me to the right hidden options (probably buried 8 >> levels down on the 'backstage' if it exists at all.....) urrrrgh. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rlister at actuarial-files.com Thu May 19 18:48:45 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:48:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <05b301cc0fdb$bfdce100$3f96a300$@com> <015901cc0fe8$a4553a60$ecffaf20$@winhaven.net> <015f01cc0fee$8e34f490$aa9eddb0$@winhaven.net> <001001cc0ff9$aca24210$05e6c630$@com> <001d01cc1000$254eafe0$6fec0fa0$@com> <008e01cc1006$28800af0$798020d0$@cox.net> <008301cc10d4$48375a00$d8a60e00$@cox.net> <004201cc10f3$60715840$215408c0$@rr.com> <00d601cc10f8$76426ba0$62c742e0$@com><000601cc1271$f6c4d180$e44e7480$@rr.com> <003c01cc1295$72dd3af0$5897b0d0$@com> <004d01cc158a$38f481c0$aadd8540$@comcast.net><91384B00486142679D39394E0BABA451@HAL9005> <001601cc161b$1ea1a5a0$5be4f0e0$@! comcast.net> <002001cc1624$b3219ce0$1964d6a0$@comcast.net> <4DD505AA0200006B0001FA3C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <000d01cc167f$4ca65a90$e5f30fb0$@com> Hello John, I have this code snippet, may be it helps: Function AgeInMonths(End As Date, Begin As Date) As Integer '************************************************************ '************************************************************ '** Name of Procedure: AgeInMonths ** '** Date: January 2011 ** '** Called from: various in modReservas, modReservasInv ** '** Calls: none ** '** Task: Calculates the age of a person in month ** '** Input: End, Begin (Both Date) ** '** Output: Integer ** '** Example: AgeInMonths(#30/4/2011#,#25/11/2009#) = 17 ** '************************************************************ '************************************************************ Dim xM As Integer If Day(End) < Day(Begin) Then xM = (Year(End) - Year(Begin)) * 12 + _ Month(End) - Month(Begin) - 1 Else xM = (Year(End) - Year(Begin)) * 12 + _ Month(End) - Month(Begin) End If AgeInMonths = xM End Function Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com -----Mensaje original----- De: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] En nombre de John Clark Enviado el: Jueves, 19 de Mayo de 2011 11:58 a.m. Para: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Asunto: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3647 - Release Date: 05/19/11 From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu May 19 23:15:50 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 14:15:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... Message-ID: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi everyone, A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following error "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall it" Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this problem. Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. bah. annoying. cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Fri May 20 00:03:00 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 22:03:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <3CDA3DC698A44A85A6DF9BD21E3D6632@BPCS> Darryl, I had a similar problem, not sure if it applies to but in my case it had to do trying to open a JPG. The cure was to right click on any jpg and and make sure that paint was the default. My program used paint to display photo's. Like you it only affected those PC's that had the default JPG set to something else or perhaps not set at all. The same thing might apply if you are using something other than photos like say notepad for .txt etc. HTH Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Collins" Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 9:15 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi everyone, A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following error "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall it" Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this problem. Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. bah. annoying. cheers Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 20 01:15:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:15:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201105200416.p4K4Fxlu009768@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4DD6071C.19653.184C1D20@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It often occurs when you have a OLE object field in your database with various images, documents etc embedded and the program that is set as the default for that type of file is not the same as the one used on the PC that saved the object. -- Stuart On 20 May 2011 at 14:15, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi everyone, > > A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following > error > > "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall > it" > > Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none > of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known > issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb > / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This > sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, > but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of > calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. > > On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this > problem. > > Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking > running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. > > bah. annoying. > > cheers > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Fri May 20 01:33:00 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:33:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... In-Reply-To: <4DD6071C.19653.184C1D20@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105200633.p4K6X8sb028504@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Ok guys, Going to try that out with this user and see what happens. Will post back with results. I have repointed the single graphic used to point at MS Paint and reinstalled it. thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, 20 May 2011 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OLE Server blah blah... It often occurs when you have a OLE object field in your database with various images, documents etc embedded and the program that is set as the default for that type of file is not the same as the one used on the PC that saved the object. -- Stuart On 20 May 2011 at 14:15, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi everyone, > > A couple of my users (vs everyone else) are getting the following > error > > "The OLE server isn't registered: to register the OLE Server reinstall > it" > > Now I have been digging around Google for a couple of days, but none > of the solutions seem to fit what is going on here. It is a known > issue with A2003 when using ADP etc, but I am using a regular old mdb > / mde setup with no active data pages or anything too weird. This > sort of error is usually related to a graphic from what I understand, > but the singal graphic seems to be ok as well. I do have a couple of > calendar controls (Active X) so that is a suspect. > > On the corporate PC's only two users out of many are having this > problem. > > Open to ideas if anyone else has experience with this. I am thinking > running a repair on their Office 2003 and seeing what happens. > > bah. annoying. > > cheers > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri May 20 06:47:42 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:47:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of Message-ID: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Hi, Working on a database application where the client wants what she refers to as primary and secondary drop-downs. The description is of a drop-list wherein two of the items have secondary drop-lists. This is to be able to select specific reports to print. So, one report, called "Post It" would have a second selection criterion of which counselor the report is for. To me, this sounds like a cascading menu - commonly found in the Microsoft Office Suite programs - but I don't know how to construct that in Access. Perhaps the Treeview approach is a good option. I'd love a little feedback on how to meet this client's need. Thanks, Tina From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 20 08:27:08 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 15:27:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! Message-ID: Hi John Here is how: Public Function Months( _ ByVal datDate1 As Date, _ ByVal datDate2 As Date, _ Optional ByVal booLinear As Boolean) _ As Integer ' Returns the difference in full months between datDate1 and datDate2. ' ' Calculates correctly for: ' negative differences ' leap years ' dates of 29. February ' date/time values with embedded time values ' negative date/time values (prior to 1899-12-29) ' ' Optionally returns negative counts rounded down to provide a ' linear sequence of month counts. ' For a given datDate1, if datDate2 is decreased stepwise one month from ' returning a positive count to returning a negative count, one or two ' occurrences of count zero will be returned. ' If booLinear is False, the sequence will be: ' 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, -1, -2 ' If booLinear is True, the sequence will be: ' 3, 2, 1, 0, -1, -2, -3 ' ' If booLinear is False, reversing datDate1 and datDate2 will return ' results of same absolute Value, only the sign will change. ' This behaviour mimics that of Fix(). ' If booLinear is True, reversing datDate1 and datDate2 will return ' results where the negative count is offset by -1. ' This behaviour mimics that of Int(). ' DateAdd() is used for check for month end of February as it correctly ' returns Feb. 28. when adding a count of months to dates of Feb. 29. ' when the resulting year is a common year. ' ' 2010-03-30. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim intDiff As Integer Dim intSign As Integer Dim intMonths As Integer ' Find difference in calendar months. intMonths = DateDiff("m", datDate1, datDate2) ' For positive resp. negative intervals, check if the second date ' falls before, on, or after the crossing date for a 1 month period ' while at the same time correcting for February 29. of leap years. If DateDiff("d", datDate1, datDate2) > 0 Then intSign = Sgn(DateDiff("d", DateAdd("m", intMonths, datDate1), datDate2)) intDiff = Abs(intSign < 0) Else intSign = Sgn(DateDiff("d", DateAdd("m", -intMonths, datDate2), datDate1)) If intSign <> 0 Then ' Offset negative count of months to continuous sequence if requested. intDiff = Abs(booLinear) End If intDiff = intDiff - Abs(intSign < 0) End If ' Return count of months as count of full 1 month periods. Months = intMonths - intDiff End Function To have the years and months count: intMonths = Months([DOB], Date) strYearsMonths = CStr(intMonths \ 12) & " year(s), " & CStr(intMonths Mod 12) & " month(s)" /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 19-05-2011 17:57 >>> I've got this quickie program I whipped up, that our health department wants to use, for entering and tracking surveyed data regarding children and dental visits. There are 3 separate surveys depending on the childs age, and this can change as the child ages. I've pretty much got the whole thing done, but...one of their age groups is "6 Months to 4 Yrs of Age." This really doesn't matter to me, because it is irrelevant in the program...I check for "under 4 yrs" for this group. But, they want the yrs and months to show for age. And, of course, my only code just give age in years. Anyone have code that does age in yrs and months? Thanks ahead of time! J Clark From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 20 09:05:50 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:05:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of In-Reply-To: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> References: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Message-ID: The common approach to this is related combo or listboxes; however, in your case the lists seem unrelated (unless of course only certain users have access to certain reports, but in that case you're missing a table and the lists are in the wrong order). I'd go with a simple dialog box containing two controls, one for reports and one for users. HTH, A. From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri May 20 10:19:15 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:19:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Message-ID: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 10:25:29 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:25:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I've sent out over 300 separate emails that were created by Access in a batch and put in my Outbox, then sent manually by me. Customized emails with the same subject line. No problems. The only limits I've dealt with are imposed by email providers, who try to prevent spammers by limiting you to 50 emails in a 2 hour window and 200 a day. AT&T does that. Charter.net does that. It's not Access or Outlook. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri May 20 10:35:00 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:35:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <7D67105591864E8E9964755F9763F2CB@XPS> Yes, there are no real limits as far as the client is concerned. It's the ISP and its spam detection limits that are at work when you send e-mail and each is different. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question I've sent out over 300 separate emails that were created by Access in a batch and put in my Outbox, then sent manually by me. Customized emails with the same subject line. No problems. The only limits I've dealt with are imposed by email providers, who try to prevent spammers by limiting you to 50 emails in a 2 hour window and 200 a day. AT&T does that. Charter.net does that. It's not Access or Outlook. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 11:09:58 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:09:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> I've run into this problem with a program I wrote to contact people for events, etc. Outlook does not have a limit but Exchange can, ISPs can and filtering devices/add-ins can (like SPAM filters). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri May 20 11:38:05 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:38:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. > I've run into this problem with a program I wrote to contact people for > events, etc. Outlook does not have a limit but Exchange can, ISPs can and > filtering devices/add-ins can (like SPAM filters). From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 20 11:50:44 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:50:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Age Calculation - Yeah, I'm going there again! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD663A40200006B0001FAA2@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> A huge THANK YOU Gustav!!! I was drawing a blank...I just can't concentrate these days. It could be because I do net admin one day, work on switches the next, then get into the VOIP stuff, then try to learn SharePoint (I hate SharePoint so far...well, WSS anyhow)...it is just hard for me to turn programming on and off like that. But, I appreciate your help very much...you saved me a bunch. John W Clark >>> "Gustav Brock" 5/20/2011 9:27 A >>> Hi John Here is how: From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 12:57:37 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:57:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net> <908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 20 13:10:51 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:10:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I've been automating task items set with people to remind with due date and reminder times and Outlook barfs some message about allowing macros to access your address book create items for 1, 2, 5 or 10 minutes. Thats a very real limit by time. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: ssharkins at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:19:15 -0400 > Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question > > 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it differ? > > ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit at all? > > > > Susan H. From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 20 15:44:30 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:44:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of In-Reply-To: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> References: <4DD654DE.60605@torchlake.com> Message-ID: Tina, I just saw this now. I don't know if you've solved the issue, but there are excellent free, video tutorials on cascading combos here. http://www.datapigtechnologies.com/flashfiles/combobox1.html http://www.datapigtechnologies.com/flashfiles/combobox2.html Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Cascading menus sort of Hi, Working on a database application where the client wants what she refers to as primary and secondary drop-downs. The description is of a drop-list wherein two of the items have secondary drop-lists. This is to be able to select specific reports to print. So, one report, called "Post It" would have a second selection criterion of which counselor the report is for. To me, this sounds like a cascading menu - commonly found in the Microsoft Office Suite programs - but I don't know how to construct that in Access. Perhaps the Treeview approach is a good option. I'd love a little feedback on how to meet this client's need. Thanks, Tina -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri May 20 15:49:58 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:49:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 20 16:07:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:07:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DD6D818.1495.1B7C80B3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've never come across a hard limit in a mail client. The most likely cause of an apparent freeze would be long delays in the time it takes for the SMTP server to deal with a large list of addresses and respond to the email client. The client could appear to hang while waiting for the resoponse. The primary limit will generally be the rules implemented by the SMTP server you are sending through. Often ISPs set their public servers' limits at 50 - 100. Exchange Server has a parameter msExchSmtpMaxRecipients which can be set by administrators. MS in their wisdom set it by default to 64,000 ! On 20 May 2011 at 11:19, Susan Harkins wrote: > 2.) Do you know what the limit for the amount of e-mails that can > be sent out at one time by Access or Word via Outlook? I've read > different things and I believe I've done more than I've read can be > done. I've heard there are limits and with certain amounts Outlook > will freeze up. Can you give any concrete numbers on this or does it > differ? > > ==========The above is from a reader, but why would there be a limit > at all? > > > > Susan H. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 17:54:35 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:54:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 18:05:36 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:05:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: The ISPs blacklist others from time to teim. AOL has blacklisted AT&T several times because they were getting so much spam from AT&T accounts. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bartow To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 20 18:25:27 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:25:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <00ba01cc1745$33d57070$9b805150$@winhaven.net> AT&T drives me nuts. They have you jump through all kinds of verifications routines and extra security, etc. but they haven't affected the SPAM at all. Sometimes I think they just have a sadistic CIO who likes to punish his clients. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 6:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question The ISPs blacklist others from time to teim. AOL has blacklisted AT&T several times because they were getting so much spam from AT&T accounts. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: John Bartow To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri May 20 19:06:12 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:06:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net> <00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: It happened to pundit last year - Cox blacklisted her so she couldn't send any mail to a Cox account. It was hell to straighten out - our ISP TW said it was Cox and of course you know what Cox said. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Right now that's as close as I can get to an answer. It looks like all the recipients that got rejected were AT&T customers and the account sending was Charter Cable. Maybe just dirty business practices behind the scene? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Fri May 20 19:29:08 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 19:29:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] accelerator keys not working in Access2010 Message-ID: I'm trying to fix all the stuff that worked in my database in 2000, 2002 and 2003 but no longer work in 2010. I have a lot of accelerator keys on my forms (Alt + ) which no longer work in Access 2010. Does anyone know if there is a way to make them functional? TIA, Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 20 21:51:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 22:51:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM Message-ID: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible a workstation running out on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM running but it was part of my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able to access it remote desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is using stored info and assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can from my internal network. I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel through the firewall. Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 07:41:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 08:41:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Message-ID: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat May 21 08:31:44 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 06:31:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John: I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 Set dbs = CurrentDb On Error GoTo Change_Err dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue ChangeProperty = True Change_Bye: Exit Function Change_Err: If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ varPropType, varPropValue) dbs.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else ' Unknown error. ChangeProperty = False Resume Change_Bye End If End Function I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than through my own menus: ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde") <> 0 Then Me.MenuBar = "=1" Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open End If Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. HTH Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 21 09:52:55 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 16:52:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Message-ID: Hi John Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): >>>1999-05-18 08:15 Subject: My FramwWIZ 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties of the current database or any database (depending on button pushed). The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all the built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) and into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen because it really should be a check box) to allow you to select the state you wish to set the property to (set or reset). There is then a button that you can press to save any changes to the properties back into the database. These properties allow the developer to "secure" the operation of the database to prevent fiddling by the user. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41 >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 11:49:30 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:49:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> Gustav, > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): LOL. Yea I went out and found that. This is the basis (as is the code from the other posters) but I really want an application that sets the properties and then copies from / to. My application allows you to open an Access FE, navigate to another Access FE and set the properties there. It is an entire user interface around this code. I am going to be modifying my app (designed in 10/2001 BTW) to add this additional functionality. I am going to need it table driven so that I can select a group of files, set the properties and copy all of the files to production. As you know I also have two libraries to secure. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 10:52 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): > >>>> 1999-05-18 08:15 > Subject: My FramwWIZ > > 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) > is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties of the > current database or any database (depending on button pushed). > > The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all the > built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, > StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, > AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. > > These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) and > into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen because it > really should be a check box) to allow you to select the state you wish to > set the property to (set or reset). There is then a button that you can > press to save any changes to the properties back into the database. These > properties allow the developer to "secure" the operation of the database to > prevent fiddling by the user. > > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41>>> > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a "live" directory. I want > to set the "display system objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as > Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > From df.waters at comcast.net Sat May 21 12:19:54 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:19:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7ED1A.1080104@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000c01cc17db$4d8a7ce0$e89f76a0$@comcast.net> John, You could try this technique - you can work another FE from your FE. However, the properties you are changing don't take effect until the next time the mdb file opened. So a test is needed to see if this actually works the next time the other FE is opened. '-- Set Destination MDB as the CurrentDatabase Set MappDestination = New Access.Application MappDestination.OpenCurrentDatabase MstgDestinationFilePath DoEvents Post back your results! I use these properties also for each of my customer's systems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 11:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Gustav, > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): LOL. Yea I went out and found that. This is the basis (as is the code from the other posters) but I really want an application that sets the properties and then copies from / to. My application allows you to open an Access FE, navigate to another Access FE and set the properties there. It is an entire user interface around this code. I am going to be modifying my app (designed in 10/2001 BTW) to add this additional functionality. I am going to need it table driven so that I can select a group of files, set the properties and copy all of the files to production. As you know I also have two libraries to secure. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 10:52 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Having a senior moment? You did that yourself(!): > >>>> 1999-05-18 08:15 > Subject: My FramwWIZ > > 3) Page 2 of C2DbFrameWiz (as activated by Tools / addins / C2DbFrameWiz) > is a "wizard" to allow you to see and modify the built in properties > of the current database or any database (depending on button pushed). > > The "current database" button directly opens a form that displays all > the built in properties - StartupForm, StartupShowDBWindow, > StartupShowStatusBar, AllowBuiltinToolbars, AllowFullMenus, > AllowBreakIntoCode, AllowSpecialKeys, AllowBypassKey. > > These properties are read out of the database (current in this case) > and into a radio button for each property (bemoaned by Mr. Breen > because it really should be a check box) to allow you to select the > state you wish to set the property to (set or reset). There is then a > button that you can press to save any changes to the properties back > into the database. These properties allow the developer to "secure" > the operation of the database to prevent fiddling by the user. > > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 21-05-2011 14:41>>> > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jedi at charm.net Sat May 21 12:33:50 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM In-Reply-To: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4373.24.35.19.37.1305999230.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John, with your current setup I think it will be difficult to be "isolated" as you will always be part of 192.168.1.x. Since you are using a VM then the VM is part of the phsical machine by way of a virtual network. One way (maybe) to partially isolate your VM is to sub-net but that would mean sub-netting your physical machine also as your VM is using a virtual network. Another way (maybe) is to get another router and run it parallel to your current router and then connect your physical machine. Make sure you configure the second router router as 192.168.2.x. Mike > Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible > a workstation running out > on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM > running but it was part of > my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able > to access it remote > desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is > using stored info and > assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can > from my internal network. > > I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range > (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) > but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel > through the firewall. > > Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dc8 at btinternet.com Sat May 21 14:03:59 2011 From: dc8 at btinternet.com (Chris Swann) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 20:03:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Error 1004 In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net><00ab01cc1740$e3bb7200$ab325600$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4DD80C9F.4040509@btinternet.com> Hi all, I have some code that runs fine on my work PC running XP SP3 with Office 2007. Wanted to do a bit of work on my home PC which is Vista with Office 2003 and 2007 installed. I thought this might be the problem. So, I thought I'd try on my laptop which only has Office 2003 installed but got the same error. It seems to be failing at this point (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<) and I wondered if anybody might be able to shed any light on what might be causing the problem. The code completes the first two lines - correctly adds the data to the first two sheets and then fails part of code follows Do Line Input #1, theline a = Split(theline, "|") rowcount = rowcount + 1 For i = LBound(a) To UBound(a) Select Case i Case Is <= 249 sht1(rowcount, i + 1) = a(i) Case 250 To 499 sht2(rowcount, i - 249) = a(i) Case 500 To 749 sht3(rowcount, i - 499) = a(i) End Select Next i Loop While Not EOF(1) Close #1 With xlApp .Sheets("Sheet1").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht1 .Sheets("Sheet2").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht2 .Sheets("Sheet3").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht3 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< .Sheets("WantedData").Range("A1:IP" & counter) = sht4 End With Many thanks, Chris Swann From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat May 21 17:47:50 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 18:47:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Guess what? Somehow (without my conscious intervention) Access suddenly decided that the BE should be Read-Only, and that was the source of all my difficulties. So I copied it and renamed the old one to BE_RO and renamed the copy to BE, and lo and behold, everything worked again. I have no idea what I might have inadvertently done to cause Access to mark the BE ReadOnly, but it did, and now that I[ve sorted it out, I'm back in Productive City (i.e. billable time). A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it > doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form > from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. > > A. > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust < > charlotte.foust at gmail.com> wrote: > >> That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes >> sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens >> faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste >> time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the >> other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for >> you. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 21 18:09:23 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:09:23 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <182067B3E3754B08BC3F25B982E53469@abpc> Never underestimate your unconscious intervention... Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 22. maj 2011 00:48 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Tabbed form problem Guess what? Somehow (without my conscious intervention) Access suddenly decided that the BE should be Read-Only, and that was the source of all my difficulties. So I copied it and renamed the old one to BE_RO and renamed the copy to BE, and lo and behold, everything worked again. I have no idea what I might have inadvertently done to cause Access to mark the BE ReadOnly, but it did, and now that I[ve sorted it out, I'm back in Productive City (i.e. billable time). A. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I understand all that, but last week it worked as is and this week it > doesn't. Nothing else has changed. I'm thinking now of rebuilding said form > from scratch and seeing if that behaves like a good little child. > > A. > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Charlotte Foust < > charlotte.foust at gmail.com> wrote: > >> That could be part of your problem. Loading forms/subforms JIT makes >> sense every time. It reduces the load on the CPU so the form opens >> faster. Each subform opens only when it needs to, so you don't waste >> time loading a subform the user never visits. If you exhaust all the >> other things to try without fixing the problem, JIT might do it for >> you. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 21 23:52:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 00:52:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the database. I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:00:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 00:12:17 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:12:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> Hi John, Try AllowSpecialKeys notice the ending s I presume you are aware without a password all a bad guy needs to do is open a new mdb and import all stuff, if his show hidden objects is checked? Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than > through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar > Set db = CurrentDb > If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily > write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you > selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a > "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display > hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full > menus", > Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 00:18:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:18:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the database. I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other > than through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a > db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup > "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 00:19:57 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:19:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you using here? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > John: > > I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > > ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > > Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, > varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > > Set dbs = CurrentDb > On Error GoTo Change_Err > dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > ChangeProperty = True > > Change_Bye: > Exit Function > > Change_Err: > If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > varPropType, varPropValue) > dbs.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > ' Unknown error. > ChangeProperty = False > Resume Change_Bye > End If > End Function > > I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other > than through my own menus: > > ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > Me.MenuBar = "=1" > Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False > On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > End If > > Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could > easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a > db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > > HTH > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory > to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and > "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup > "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > > Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:23:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:23:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com> <75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > As an aside - why do you need this level of security? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. I > added a field to my application for the destination directory, then a button > to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every single table, > query, form etc. and added code to the application that cleared the "show > hidden objects" when my init code runs. > > No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't get at > any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty much have to > use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them from outside of the > database. > > I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy and > Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and see > absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. > > So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button for the > two library files and the application file and I have reasonably tight > physical security on the distributed app. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:28:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:28:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <997AF250544B4BAB8F5E6C7D827F9970@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD89F0D.4000305@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, yes I know just how wussy Access security is. Like most locks, the objective is to keep the honest people honest. We all lock our doors when we leave home but it doesn't even slow down a burglar. The vast majority of users haven't a clue about how to get around security. The objective is to prevent them from stumbling into the tables or code etc. where they could do serious damage. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:12 AM, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi John, > > Try AllowSpecialKeys notice the ending s > > I presume you are aware without a password all a bad guy needs to do is open > a new mdb and import all stuff, if his show hidden objects is checked? > > Bill > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other than >> through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar >> Set db = CurrentDb >> If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily >> write one with this code that would set the properties of of a db you >> selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory to a >> "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and "display >> hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup "Allow full >> menus", >> Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:36:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:36:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD8A0F0.50306@colbyconsulting.com> 2003. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 00:44:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:44:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com> <120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 01:17:10 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:17:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com><120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Hi again, I guess I didn't make it clear Rocky's code ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False I believe the correct code is keys not key. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you > using here? > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. > Any clues why? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 02:01:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 17:01:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com>, <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The singular version has always worked for me. -- Stuart On 21 May 2011 at 23:17, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are > > you using here? > > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access > > Lockdown > > > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from > > working. Any clues why? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> John: > >> > >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > >> > >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > >> > >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > >> > >> Set dbs = CurrentDb > >> On Error GoTo Change_Err > >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > >> ChangeProperty = True > >> > >> Change_Bye: > >> Exit Function > >> > >> Change_Err: > >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > >> varPropType, varPropValue) > >> dbs.Properties.Append prp > >> Resume Next > >> Else > >> ' Unknown error. > >> ChangeProperty = False > >> Resume Change_Bye > >> End If > >> End Function > >> > >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app > >> other than through my own menus: > >> > >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" > >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On > >> Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > >> End If > >> > >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you > >> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties > >> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > >> > >> HTH > >> > >> Rocky > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers > >> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > >> > >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev > >> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system > >> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well > >> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > >> > >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun May 22 03:04:18 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 18:04:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question In-Reply-To: References: <8E4198D918A84B55B9C2AADA39F04815@SusanHarkins> <005801cc1708$5da95f20$18fc1d60$@winhaven.net><908214A70EDE4E36844C187E1840D6E7@SusanHarkins> <006f01cc1717$67b65130$3722f390$@winhaven.net>, Message-ID: <201105220805.p4M851RO012802@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Yes, I have seen this from Thunderbird before, again it was ISP related. Had to point to a different server at the ISP in the end. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin [rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Saturday, 21 May 2011 6:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Bet a dollar it's their ISP. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Just got a call from a customer who had a number of emails returned stating too "many recipients" but not all. He only had about 30 recipients for the email message. I haven't investigated fully yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Outlook automation from Access/Word -- reader question Thanks everybody -- I was stumped by that one -- could see no reason for an Office/Outlook limit. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 08:08:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:08:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89869.6040502@colbyconsulting.com><120366CCF04A4F3FAC4D9564EBC1EDD1@HAL9005> <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com> <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> Message-ID: <4DD90AB5.6000606@colbyconsulting.com> Bill, > I guess I didn't make it clear http://support.microsoft.com/kb/826765 Which is fascinating because notice that it specifically says you are ADDING that property to the database. When I executed the following: ?CurrentProject.Properties("AllowBypassKey") in a database where I had not done that, it came back with an error (property not found). After doing this: CurrentProject.Properties.Add "AllowBypassKey", False and *then* doing this: ?CurrentProject.Properties("AllowBypassKey") it came back 0. Which tells me that the AllowBypass property doesn't exist unless you make it. Even then however it doesn't prevent my database from opening bypassed. Hmmm... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 2:17 AM, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are you >> using here? >> >> Rocky >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. >> Any clues why? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, >>> varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 08:18:14 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 06:18:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you securing that? Are you distributing an mde? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > As an aside - why do you need this level of security? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. > I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then > a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every > single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that > cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. > > No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't > get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty > much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them > from outside of the database. > > I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy > and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and > see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. > > So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button > for the two library files and the application file and I have > reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> John: >> >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >> >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >> >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >> >> Set dbs = CurrentDb >> On Error GoTo Change_Err >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >> ChangeProperty = True >> >> Change_Bye: >> Exit Function >> >> Change_Err: >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >> varPropType, varPropValue) >> dbs.Properties.Append prp >> Resume Next >> Else >> ' Unknown error. >> ChangeProperty = False >> Resume Change_Bye >> End If >> End Function >> >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >> than through my own menus: >> >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >> End If >> >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >> >> HTH >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >> >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun May 22 10:54:13 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:54:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD8A2C1.3000400@colbyconsulting.com>, <709A9027878842C19B5C11DB401B7133@BPCS> <4DD8B4D6.2446.22C2E1BD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, You are correct, I was reading the line above AllowByPassKey, AllowSpecialKeys which has an s in my code. My apologies to John for my vertical dyslexia. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart McLachlan" Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 12:01 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The singular version has always worked for me. -- Stuart On 21 May 2011 at 23:17, Bill Patten wrote: > Hi again, > > I guess I didn't make it clear > Rocky's code > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > > ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKeys", dbBoolean, False > > I believe the correct code is keys not key. > > Bill > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:44 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > The odd part is that all the rest of the stuff works. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:19 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > No. Worked for me in A2000 and A2003. What version of Access are > > you using here? > > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:00 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access > > Lockdown > > > > Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from > > working. Any clues why? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> John: > >> > >> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: > >> > >> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False > >> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False > >> > >> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > >> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer > >> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant > >> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 > >> > >> Set dbs = CurrentDb > >> On Error GoTo Change_Err > >> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > >> ChangeProperty = True > >> > >> Change_Bye: > >> Exit Function > >> > >> Change_Err: > >> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. > >> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ > >> varPropType, varPropValue) > >> dbs.Properties.Append prp > >> Resume Next > >> Else > >> ' Unknown error. > >> ChangeProperty = False > >> Resume Change_Bye > >> End If > >> End Function > >> > >> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app > >> other than through my own menus: > >> > >> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = > >> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then > >> Me.MenuBar = "=1" > >> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False On > >> Error GoTo Err_Form_Open > >> End If > >> > >> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you > >> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties > >> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. > >> > >> HTH > >> > >> Rocky > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM To: Access Developers > >> discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > >> > >> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev > >> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system > >> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well > >> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. > >> > >> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 22 12:33:48 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 10:33:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM In-Reply-To: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD728AA.8020208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9FE9340ED3C34CC9B390266DF0AB834D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: You have to control it at the router end where you can create any number of virtual servers and assign, names, internal addresses, public/private ports, protocols etc. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a test VM Using a VM running on my server, I want to emulate as closely as possible a workstation running out on the internet connecting in to my server over Hamachi. I have the VM running but it was part of my workgroup. I changed the workgroup name for the VM but I am still able to access it remote desktop by the machine name which means that very likely the router is using stored info and assigning the VM an IP. I really wanted to isolate it as much as I can from my internal network. I tried assigning the machine an entirely different IP range (192.168.122.x instead of 192.168.1.x) but when I did that it appears that hamachi instantly loses it's tunnel through the firewall. Any suggestions for how to go about making this thing isolated? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 20:29:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 21:29:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown > users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 21:36:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 22:36:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9C849.4060908@colbyconsulting.com> As it happens the BE is probably the most secure of the lot (at least in terms of unauthorized users) for the simple reason that it comes in to my server over a Hamachi VPN. The user has to have Hamachi installed on their machine and have to be joined to the Hamachi network specific to that application. I have to invite the user to join the network and after they apply I have to authorize their joining the network. So yes, "the bad guy" can get at the data tables directly on the machine that I have authorized on the network, but if they move it (a linked FE) to another machine they cannot get in. All for naught if I cannot get the bypass key disabled, assuming that "the bad guy" knows about the bypass key. I still haven't figured out why the bypass key works even when I have a "DisableBypassKey" property set to false on the application - and on my libraries as well for that matter. I have also password protected the code modules, though as we all know these passwords are easily cracked by those of us with knowledge. I will eventually investigate whether I can programmatically compile MDB/A files to MDB, IOW copy to the destination then turn them into an MDE, all from an outside Access application like my C2DbProperties. Every little roadblock makes it that much more difficult to go where they should not go. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown > users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:01:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:01:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the application and it in fact does disable the bypass key. Once executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that property correctly works from my external tool as well. So se por que. jwc Function ap_DisableShift() 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes 'the Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. On Error GoTo errDisableShift Dim db As DAO.Database Dim prop as DAO.Property Const conPropNotFound = 3270 Set db = CurrentDb() 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False 'The function is successful. Exit Function errDisableShift: 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, False) db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End If End Function Function ap_EnableShift() 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed 'if the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. On Error GoTo errEnableShift Dim db as DAO.Database Dim prop as DAO.Property Const conPropNotFound = 3270 Set db = CurrentDb() 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True 'function successful Exit Function errEnableShift: 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, True) db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End If End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:29 PM, jwcolby wrote: > The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you >> securing that? >> >> Are you distributing an mde? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by unknown >> users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >>> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >>> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid every >>> single table, query, form etc. and added code to the application that >>> cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >>> >>> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >>> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >>> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >>> from outside of the database. >>> >>> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >>> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >>> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >>> >>> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >>> for the two library files and the application file and I have >>> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>>> John: >>>> >>>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>>> >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>>> >>>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>>> >>>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>>> ChangeProperty = True >>>> >>>> Change_Bye: >>>> Exit Function >>>> >>>> Change_Err: >>>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>>> Resume Next >>>> Else >>>> ' Unknown error. >>>> ChangeProperty = False >>>> Resume Change_Bye >>>> End If >>>> End Function >>>> >>>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>>> than through my own menus: >>>> >>>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>>> End If >>>> >>>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you could >>>> easily write one with this code that would set the properties of of a >>>> db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> Rocky >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>>> >>>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev directory >>>> to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system objects and >>>> "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well as Startup >>>> "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>>> >>>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun May 22 22:15:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 20:15:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not try to find a way to change the data? Or in their environment do they need to protect the data from mischief or deliberate alteration of the data outside of the mandated procedures? What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown The back end is a sql server in my office. The FEs access the data over linked ODBC over the internet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 9:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > IME, the back end is more important than the front end. How are you > securing that? > > Are you distributing an mde? > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:23 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown > > For the first time I am setting up a database which will be used by > unknown users. I am trying hard to keep prying eyes out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 1:18 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> As an aside - why do you need this level of security? >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:52 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> >> Well, I have locked it down as tight as possible using these methods. >> I added a field to my application for the destination directory, then >> a button to do the copy, then set these properties false. I hid >> every single table, query, form etc. and added code to the >> application that cleared the "show hidden objects" when my init code runs. >> >> No passwords but otherwise reasonably tight. With no menus you can't >> get at any of the means of resetting these properties so you pretty >> much have to use an application like my C2DbProperties to reset them >> from outside of the database. >> >> I am accustomed to seeing everything in design view so after my Copy >> and Lockdown it is a bit disconcerting to open the database files and >> see absolutely nothing, and yet the app runs. Kinda cool actually. >> >> So now I can open my C2DbProperties, click the Copy&Lockdown button >> for the two library files and the application file and I have >> reasonably tight physical security on the distributed app. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/21/2011 9:31 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> John: >>> >>> I use this in my app and trigger it when the program is an mde: >>> >>> ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, TheOpeningForm >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltInToolbars", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False >>> ChangeProperty "MenuBar", dbBoolean, False >>> >>> Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As >>> Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer >>> Dim dbs As Object, prp As Variant >>> Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 >>> >>> Set dbs = CurrentDb >>> On Error GoTo Change_Err >>> dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue >>> ChangeProperty = True >>> >>> Change_Bye: >>> Exit Function >>> >>> Change_Err: >>> If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. >>> Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, _ >>> varPropType, varPropValue) >>> dbs.Properties.Append prp >>> Resume Next >>> Else >>> ' Unknown error. >>> ChangeProperty = False >>> Resume Change_Bye >>> End If >>> End Function >>> >>> I also use this to stop them from navigating around in the app other >>> than through my own menus: >>> >>> ' If mde then turn off windows in taskbar and menu bar Set db = >>> CurrentDb If InStr(1, db.Name, "mde")<> 0 Then >>> Me.MenuBar = "=1" >>> Access.Application.SetOption "ShowWindowsInTaskbar", False >>> On Error GoTo Err_Form_Open >>> End If >>> >>> Not a utility you could run from outside the db but I think you >>> could easily write one with this code that would set the properties >>> of of a db you selectr from the standard file open dialog box. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 5:42 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >>> >>> I want to lock down an application as I copy it from my dev >>> directory to a "live" directory. I want to set the "display system >>> objects and "display hidden objects" properties in Options as well >>> as Startup "Allow full menus", Use Special Keys" etc. >>> >>> Has anyone got a utility that sets these properties? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:17:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:17:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> Interestingly... My C2DbProperties application can read the values out and display them in check boxes. AllowBreakIntoCode is not being toggled true false as I toggle its check box, remaining always cleared. I wonder if this is the same issue as I had with AllowByPassKey, needing to be run from inside of the database container before it will work from outside of the container. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:01 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. > > I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the application and it in fact does > disable the bypass key. Once executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that > property correctly works from my external tool as well. > > So se por que. > > jwc > > Function ap_DisableShift() > 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes > 'the Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. > > On Error GoTo errDisableShift > > Dim db As DAO.Database > Dim prop as DAO.Property > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False > > 'The function is successful. > Exit Function > > errDisableShift: > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > 'property if it does not exist. > If Err = conPropNotFound Then > Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ > dbBoolean, False) > db.Properties.Append prop > Resume Next > Else > MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." > Exit Function > End If > > End Function > > Function ap_EnableShift() > 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes > 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed > 'if the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. > > On Error GoTo errEnableShift > > Dim db as DAO.Database > Dim prop as DAO.Property > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True > > 'function successful > Exit Function > > errEnableShift: > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > 'property if it does not exist. > If Err = conPropNotFound Then > Set prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ > dbBoolean, True) > db.Properties.Append prop > Resume Next > Else > MsgBox "Function 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." > Exit Function > End If > > End Function From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:40:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:40:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> > If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? If they are directly on the machine with the FE, they have access to the network and thus to the SQL Server data. All they have to be smart enough to do is copy the tables into an unsecured Access container. OTOH if they "walk away" with the FE and try to access the data on the server, they cannot do so because they have to be a member of the Hamachi network for that application which they will not be. > But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not try to find a way to change the data? Asking the client and asking the user are two different questions to two (or many) different people. I was walking through a client's office one day and saw a user in the FE in design view trying to modify a (linked) table. I asked her what she was doing. She had been sent to an access class, and had "decided" that she needed a couple of fields in an existing table so there she was trying to add them. In a linked table! In a FE which was downloaded to her machine every day. Just goes to show many things. 1) The client said users would not do such a thing. 2) The user was busy trying to do just such a thing. 3) The user was so uneducated that she was trying to modify a linked table on a Fe downloaded fresh to her machine daily. 4) She was still trying to do something that the "client" said was not going to happen. The developer's job is to idiot proof the application. The universe's job is to build better idiots. Which has the most experience? Luckily these are not medical applications or the like but still, the machines will exist "out on the internet somewhere". It is appropriate to tighten them up as much as possible. > What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? All of these applications are on user machines wherever the machine may reside. It access data on a SQL server in my office, via a Hamachi VPN HUB AND SPOKE network specific to each application. IOW "environment unknown". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:15 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > If someone is smart enough to bypass much of the FE security wouldn't they > be smart enough to make an mdb with the ODBC connection? > > But, backing up a bit, I usually build in the level of security required by > the user. The first question I ask my clients is will the users follow the > rules? IOW, if they have a read only password will they accept that and not > try to find a way to change the data? > > Or in their environment do they need to protect the data from mischief or > deliberate alteration of the data outside of the mandated procedures? > > What is the environment in which your app is being deployed? > > > R From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 22:43:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:43:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the code has the by-product of disabling "Break Into Code". -- Stuart On 22 May 2011 at 23:17, jwcolby wrote: > Interestingly... My C2DbProperties application can read the values out > and display them in check boxes. AllowBreakIntoCode is not being > toggled true false as I toggle its check box, remaining always > cleared. I wonder if this is the same issue as I had with > AllowByPassKey, needing to be run from inside of the database > container before it will work from outside of the container. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 11:01 PM, jwcolby wrote: > > Well, I finally "got it" on the DisableBypassKey thing. > > > > I executed the ap_DisableBypassKey property *from inside* of the > > application and it in fact does disable the bypass key. Once > > executed from inside of the application, the set / reset of that > > property correctly works from my external tool as well. > > > > So se por que. > > > > jwc > > > > Function ap_DisableShift() > > 'This function disable the shift at startup. This action causes 'the > > Autoexec macro and Startup properties to always be executed. > > > > On Error GoTo errDisableShift > > > > Dim db As DAO.Database > > Dim prop as DAO.Property > > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > > > 'This next line disables the shift key on startup. > > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = False > > > > 'The function is successful. > > Exit Function > > > > errDisableShift: > > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > > 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set > > prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, False) > > db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function > > 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End > > If > > > > End Function > > > > Function ap_EnableShift() > > 'This function enables the SHIFT key at startup. This action causes > > 'the Autoexec macro and the Startup properties to be bypassed 'if > > the user holds down the SHIFT key when the user opens the database. > > > > On Error GoTo errEnableShift > > > > Dim db as DAO.Database > > Dim prop as DAO.Property > > Const conPropNotFound = 3270 > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > > > 'This next line of code disables the SHIFT key on startup. > > db.Properties("AllowByPassKey") = True > > > > 'function successful > > Exit Function > > > > errEnableShift: > > 'The first part of this error routine creates the "AllowByPassKey > > 'property if it does not exist. If Err = conPropNotFound Then Set > > prop = db.CreateProperty("AllowByPassKey", _ dbBoolean, True) > > db.Properties.Append prop Resume Next Else MsgBox "Function > > 'ap_DisableShift' did not complete successfully." Exit Function End > > If > > > > End Function > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 22 22:53:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:53:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9CE05.4060801@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D1DC.6070101@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> Really! Yes it is, and of course it does. ;) Hmm... never considered that. So can the password protection be set programmatically from outside of the container? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/22/2011 11:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the code has the by-product > of disabling "Break Into Code". > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 22 23:12:44 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:12:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. -- Stuart On 22 May 2011 at 23:53, jwcolby wrote: > Really! Yes it is, and of course it does. ;) Hmm... never > considered that. So can the password protection be set > programmatically from outside of the container? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/22/2011 11:43 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > Is your VBA Project password protected? Password protecting the > > code has the by-product of disabling "Break Into Code". > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon May 23 02:34:28 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:34:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> John Just out of interest. You are spending a lot of time and effort locking the data from Access. How do you deal with access from other applications for example Excel etc Martin From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 05:36:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 06:36:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD89679.8090500@colbyconsulting.com><75F70BAD1AE24C918B497EAC9EC029F5@HAL9005> <4DD89DB7.3080706@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9B86B.1080306@colbyconsulting.com> <629E0EB1DCB643339C17671B5969C16E@HAL9005> <4DD9D71B.7030802@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829549261E78CF@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4DDA38AA.4080202@colbyconsulting.com> There isn't any such access. The data is accessed over odbc to SQL Server with a user name / password and hitting a specific IP:port. In order for the user to set up such access they will have to discover the username/pw for the sql server database, the IP:port, and of course be a member of the network if doing so from another computer. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 3:34 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > John > > Just out of interest. You are spending a lot of time and effort locking the data from Access. How do you deal with access from other applications for example Excel etc > > Martin > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 07:06:59 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:06:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDA4DE3.9050705@colbyconsulting.com> Changing it is setting it. Do you have the code available? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" > application which does exactly that > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be > writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it > yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the > same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 08:22:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 09:22:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" > application which does exactly that > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be > writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it > yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the > same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 08:49:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 09:49:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? for example... ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password boxers and clicking the button. ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDSysTabControl32) 'Move to Protection tab SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project Properties dialog hWndLockProject = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) ' Lock project for &viewing SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 ' &Password SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword ' &Confirm password SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and > clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, >> >> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" >> application which does exactly that >> >> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. >> >> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be >> writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it >> yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the >> same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 09:53:14 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:53:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> Using this code I succeeded in opening my two frameworks and setting the module passwords in those, however doing so in the application causes the app to open and the startup code to run, which opens a login form (as it should on opening). It's always something! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 9:49 AM, jwcolby wrote: > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? for example... > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause it to go to the correct tab, > enter data into the password boxers and clicking the button. > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > 'Move to Protection tab > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. > EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) > ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project Properties dialog > hWndLockProject = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > ' Lock project for &viewing > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > ' &Password > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > ' &Confirm password > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. >> >> http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html >> >> It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and then pushing data to that and >> clicking on things in the dialog. Actually cool stuff to know. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, >>> >>> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. I have a "cracker" >>> application which does exactly that >>> >>> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. >>> >>> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard password (possibly just be >>> writing a different hash value somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it >>> yourself after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities work in the >>> same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a far more difficult task. >>> >>> From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 23 09:57:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:57:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> <> One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, _ ByVal lParam As Long) As Long Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As _ Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. Dim windows() As Long ' The number of elements in the array. Dim windowsCount As Long Sub getWindows() Dim lnghwnd As Long lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) End Sub ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) windowsCount = 0 If hWnd Then EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 Else EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 End If ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long End Function ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As _ Long Dim slength As Long Dim buffer As String Dim retval As Variant Dim classname As String ' Make room in the array, if necessary. If windowsCount = 0 Then ReDim windows(100) As Long ElseIf windowsCount >= UBound(windows) Then ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long End If ' Store the new item. windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 windows(windowsCount) = hWnd slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated window Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text of enumerated window classname = Space(255) slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname Debug.Print ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. EnumWindows_CBK = 1 End Function <> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 10:22:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 11:22:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> Message-ID: <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> Holy cow! It would appear that you have done this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 10:57 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < for example...>> > > > One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: > > Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, > _ > ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As > _ > Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > > Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias > "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long > Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" > (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As > Long > Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal > hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long > > ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure > ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine > > ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. > Dim windows() As Long > ' The number of elements in the array. > Dim windowsCount As Long > > > > > Sub getWindows() > > Dim lnghwnd As Long > > lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) > > Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) > > End Sub > > > ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows > ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. > > Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) > windowsCount = 0 > If hWnd Then > EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > Else > EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > End If > ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long > > End Function > > ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. > > Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) > As _ > Long > > Dim slength As Long > Dim buffer As String > Dim retval As Variant > Dim classname As String > > ' Make room in the array, if necessary. > If windowsCount = 0 Then > ReDim windows(100) As Long > ElseIf windowsCount>= UBound(windows) Then > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long > End If > ' Store the new item. > windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 > windows(windowsCount) = hWnd > slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text > buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer > retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text > Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated > window > Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd > Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text > of enumerated window > classname = Space(255) > slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) > classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space > Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname > Debug.Print > > ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. > EnumWindows_CBK = 1 > End Function > > > <> > From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon May 23 12:13:07 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 12:13:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> John, You have to create the property before you can set the property. At 12:01 AM 5/22/2011, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from >working. Any clues why? > >John W. Colby From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 12:31:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:31:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> References: <91618762-2946-4C53-8B85-DD4CD0A9CEFE@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4DDA99E1.3030904@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. All of the other properties already existed so I was not looking for a property to not already be there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 1:13 PM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You have to create the property before you can set the property. > > > At 12:01 AM 5/22/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown >> Message-ID: <4DD89869.6040502 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Setting AllowBypassKey false does not prevent the bypass key from working. Any clues why? >> >> John W. Colby From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon May 23 13:05:29 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:05:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9D7E2.8781.2733CF3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DD9DA3C.3050106@colbyconsulting.com> <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> <88F1AF0F4C5841DC9DB90EAEB51ADFFF@XPS> <4DDA7B98.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <62A858BFF1C64B3AA9362641B80C124E@XPS> Not this specifically no, but I play around with the Windows API stuff when I get the chance. Right now I'm working on two things: 1. How to change the main Access window in 2007 & up. 2. How to make a form dockable (or at least simulate it). To do that I have a bunch of generic routines to poke around under the hood. Couple that with Process Explorer and it's amazing some of the stuff you can do or manipulate. But it's more of a hobby thing for me and I usually get myself in more trouble then it's worth. What started this is seeing "Printing on the Fly" by ATTAC Consulting years ago; I was simply amazed what they could do with API calls from within Access/VBA (hiding the properties dialog is what originally caught my eye). That and I've always wanted to get into systems programming. BTW, I tripped over this today looking for something else, which is really cool and will be interesting to everyone I'm sure (watch the wrap): http://blog.nkadesign.com/2008/ms-access-modal-dialogs-with-transparent-back grounds/ Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Lockdown Holy cow! It would appear that you have done this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 10:57 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < for example...>> > > > One way is to enumerate all the child windows when something is running: > > Private Declare Function EnumWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, > _ > ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > Private Declare Function EnumChildWindows Lib "user32" (ByVal hWndParent As > _ > Long, ByVal lpEnumFunc As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) As Long > > Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib "user32.dll" Alias > "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long > Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetWindowTextA" > (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lpString As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As > Long > Declare Function GetClassName Lib "user32.dll" Alias "GetClassNameA" (ByVal > hWnd As Long, ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal nMaxCount As Long) As Long > > ' The following variables are shared between the main ChildWindows procedure > ' and the auxiliary (private) ChildWindows_CBK routine > > ' An array of Long holding the handle of all child windows. > Dim windows() As Long > ' The number of elements in the array. > Dim windowsCount As Long > > > > > Sub getWindows() > > Dim lnghwnd As Long > > lnghwnd = CLng(Application.hWndAccessApp) > > Debug.Print ChildWindows(lnghwnd) > > End Sub > > > ' Return an array of Long holding the handles of all the child windows > ' of a given window. If hWnd = 0 it returns all the top-level windows. > > Function ChildWindows(ByVal hWnd As Long) > windowsCount = 0 > If hWnd Then > EnumChildWindows hWnd, AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > Else > EnumWindows AddressOf EnumWindows_CBK, 1 > End If > ' Trim uninitialized elements and return to caller. > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount) As Long > > End Function > > ' The callback routine, common to both EnumWindows and EnumChildWindows. > > Private Function EnumWindows_CBK(ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal lParam As Long) > As _ > Long > > Dim slength As Long > Dim buffer As String > Dim retval As Variant > Dim classname As String > > ' Make room in the array, if necessary. > If windowsCount = 0 Then > ReDim windows(100) As Long > ElseIf windowsCount>= UBound(windows) Then > ReDim Preserve windows(windowsCount + 100) As Long > End If > ' Store the new item. > windowsCount = windowsCount + 1 > windows(windowsCount) = hWnd > slength = GetWindowTextLength(hWnd) + 1 ' get length of title bar text > buffer = Space(slength) ' make room in the buffer > retval = GetWindowText(hWnd, buffer, slength) ' get title bar text > Debug.Print "Window #"; windowsCount ' display number of enumerated > window > Debug.Print "Handle: "; hWnd > Debug.Print ; "Title:"; Left(buffer, slength - 1) ' display title bar text > of enumerated window > classname = Space(255) > slength = GetClassName(hWnd, classname, 255) > classname = Left(classname, slength) ' remove empty space > Debug.Print ; "Class: "; classname > Debug.Print > > ' Return 1 to continue enumeration. > EnumWindows_CBK = 1 > End Function > > > <> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:03:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:03:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DD9DEBC.20528.274E91D1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAAF9D.23921.2A7E8FC0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I'm aware of that technique. It's actually a lot easier to do that sort of thing using AutoIt. That is exactly what AutoIt was designed for and you don't need to use API messages to do it. But it's still a kludge. :-) -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 9:22, jwcolby wrote: > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and > then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > Actually cool stuff to know. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > > > > The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > > I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > > > > http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > > > > It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > > password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere > > in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after > > entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar > > utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a > > PW is a far more difficult task. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:06:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:06:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA5F99.6040201@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAB01C.25517.2A807DF4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> He used Spy++. It is one of a number of similar utilities that let you get all the info about any Windows control by hovering over it or clicking on it. AutoIt comes with a similar tool called AutoInfo. -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 9:49, jwcolby wrote: > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the objects? > for example... > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties > dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDPassword) > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to cause > it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password boxers and > clicking the button. > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > 'Move to Protection tab > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab > changed. EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, > AddressOf EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties > dialog hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > ControlIDPassword) ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit > control in Project Properties dialog hWndConfirmPassword = > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' > Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox control in Project > Properties dialog hWndLockProject = > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > ' Lock project for &viewing > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > ' &Password > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > strPassword > > ' &Confirm password > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > strPassword > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > > > > http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > > > > It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up and > > then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > > Actually cool stuff to know. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do that, > >> > >> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > >> I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > >> > >> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > >> > >> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > >> password (possibly just be writing a different hash value somewhere > >> in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself after > >> entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar utilities > >> work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a PW is a > >> far more difficult task. > >> > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 23 14:08:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 05:08:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Like I said just now - it's a kludge. It only works under certain conditions, and is certainly not a foolproof technique for setting/unsetting PW protection on code :-( -- Stuart On 23 May 2011 at 10:53, jwcolby wrote: > Using this code I succeeded in opening my two frameworks and setting > the module passwords in those, however doing so in the application > causes the app to open and the startup code to run, which opens a > login form (as it should on opening). > > It's always something! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/23/2011 9:49 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > What I want to know is how does he figure out the name of the > > objects? for example... > > > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > > > > > How does he discover that ControlIDPassword is the name of an object > > > > The following is the business end of manipulating the dialog to > > cause it to go to the correct tab, enter data into the password > > boxers and clicking the button. > > > > ' Get hWnd for OK button in Project Properties dialog > > hWndOK = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDOK) > > ' Get hWnd for Tab Control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndSysTabControl32 = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > > ControlIDSysTabControl32) > > > > 'Move to Protection tab > > SendMessage hWndSysTabControl32, TCM_SETCURFOCUS, 1, ByVal 0& > > > > ' Must reset hWndProjectProperties probably because tab changed. > > EnumChildWindows ByVal hWndProjectProperties, AddressOf > > EnumChildProc, ByVal 0 > > > > ' Get hWnd for Password Edit control in Project Properties dialog > > hWndPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDPassword) > > ' Get hWnd for Confirm Password Edit control in Project Properties > > dialog hWndConfirmPassword = GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, > > ControlIDConfirmPassword) ' Get hWnd for Lock Project checkbox > > control in Project Properties dialog hWndLockProject = > > GetDlgItem(hWndProjectProperties, ControlIDLockProject) > > > > ' Lock project for &viewing > > SendMessage hWndLockProject, BM_SETCHECK, BST_CHECKED, 0 > > > > ' &Password > > SendMessage hWndPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal strPassword > > > > ' &Confirm password > > SendMessage hWndConfirmPassword, EM_REPLACESEL, vbTrue, ByVal > > strPassword > > > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > On 5/23/2011 9:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am hot on the trail for code to do this. > >> > >> http://www.standards.com/Office/SetVBAProjectPassword.html > >> > >> It requires manipulating windows to get the dialog as it pops up > >> and then pushing data to that and clicking on things in the dialog. > >> Actually cool stuff to know. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> On 5/23/2011 12:12 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > >>> I don't think so. I've never come across anything that can do > >>> that, > >>> > >>> The actual Password can be *changed* from an external application. > >>> I have a "cracker" application which does exactly that > >>> > >>> http://www.systoolsgroup.com/vba-password-remover.html. > >>> > >>> It doesn't "remove" VBA passwords, it resets them to a standard > >>> password (possibly just be writing a different hash value > >>> somewhere in the .mdb) so that you can go in and unset it yourself > >>> after entering the new password. Based on the fact that similar > >>> utilities work in the same way, I'd guess that setting/unsetting a > >>> PW is a far more difficult task. > >>> > >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 23 15:23:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 16:23:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lockdown In-Reply-To: <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Access security is a kludge. By definition anything attempting to do this is a kludge since there is no direct method of doing so. I am reasonably certain I could work around this specific problem by doing things in specific order, Setting the code password then setting the AllowBypassKey true, setting the code password then setting the code password then setting the AllowBypassKey false. I am really trying to leave my dev copies totally unprotected but when I copy set all of the protection on them. As far as AutoIT goes, I try very hard to keep my Access manipulation tools developed inside of Access itself since it understands the target Access container and it contains native database objects for storing state and stuff, and native interface objects for displaying said state. Not to mention "starting from scratch" learning an obviously capable and powerful (and thus complex) system. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/23/2011 3:08 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Like I said just now - it's a kludge. It only works under certain conditions, and is certainly not > a foolproof technique for setting/unsetting PW protection on code :-( > > From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 16:49:41 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 14:49:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA6604.6090005@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDA74DA.7060208@colbyconsulting.com> <4DDAB09F.5517.2A827D78@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 24 17:09:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 08:09:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> Message-ID: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 17:18:30 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 15:18:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 24 19:10:39 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 10:10:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> Message-ID: <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From dhb at flsi.com Tue May 24 19:53:04 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:53:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 24 20:23:23 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:23:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so it hasn't been as big a deal. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Tue May 24 20:38:28 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:38:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> Message-ID: <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> You can use the database documenter select all forms, Under Include for Sections and Controls, pick Names and Properties (note if you have named your subforms with Subfrm in the controls' name, you only need to pick Names If you had to pick Names and Properties, then click the Properties button and deselect all but "Other Properties" to make things a little less voluminous. You can export the results to Word (or Excel if you think it will fit -- probably Excel 2007+ will have enough vertical space) Look for Subform/Subreport: [names will appear after these characters] The hard part is keeping track of what Form the control is on... a macro might help -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 24 20:47:14 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 11:47:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I gave up on shared subforms a long time ago - had too many situations where new requirements meant that the same sub-form no longer worked on both master forms. Like you , I try to keep event procedures down to simple function calls with all the grunt work done in standard modules. -- Stuart On 24 May 2011 at 21:23, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I > suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find > keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. > > Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored > in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so > it hasn't been as big a deal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create > list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > > > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine > > out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue May 24 21:28:29 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:28:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <000a01cc1a7a$5837b580$08a72080$@gmail.com>, <4DDC5FA2.25640.4482BC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201105250229.p4P2TXLB002589@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ That is a great approach. Using regular modules also makes the code much easier to transfer to another app with little or minor changes. If you are using form code that is not always as easy to do. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan [stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 11:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I gave up on shared subforms a long time ago - had too many situations where new requirements meant that the same sub-form no longer worked on both master forms. Like you , I try to keep event procedures down to simple function calls with all the grunt work done in standard modules. -- Stuart On 24 May 2011 at 21:23, William Benson (VBACreations. wrote: > Works fine if ... you don't share subforms between multiple forms. I > suppose you could always just duplicate the subforms, but I find > keeping the code synchronized between multiple copies a mild hazard. > > Of course lately I have been calling procedures and functions stored > in standard modules, when events on my forms and subforms run ... so > it hasn't been as big a deal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create > list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > > > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine > > out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 25 08:22:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 09:22:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> Message-ID: <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... > 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, > 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, > 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, > 4. close each form > If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. > > BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some > other places. > Your other brother, > Darrell > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > > > Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If > you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick > Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the > free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in > about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > [dhb at flsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies > subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > >> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out >> there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 25 09:32:23 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 10:32:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> >>" probably the only way to do it" Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... Bill -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... > 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, > 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls > for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more > straightforward way, I'm still interested. > > BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in > some other places. > Your other brother, > Darrell > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > > > Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at > you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick > Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the > free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself > in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). > > > > ________________________________________ > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns > [dhb at flsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that > specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms > list :-) > > frmMain > frmMain_subCustomersList > frmMain_subCustomerDetails > > > >> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action > in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than > the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ___________ > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 25 11:54:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:54:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> Bill, Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought this was regarding subforms in Access. What in the heck is the doc/xls? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>> " probably the only way to do it" > Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to write a > once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines in the output > doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. > > Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms since > the subforms aren't bound until runtime. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, >> 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls >> for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more >> straightforward way, I'm still interested. >> >> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >> some other places. >> Your other brother, >> Darrell >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >> Collins >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom >> of this message. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> >> >> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" > by Rick >> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the >> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >> [dhb at flsi.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >> list :-) >> >> frmMain >> frmMain_subCustomersList >> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >> >> >> >>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >> addressed. >> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >> review, >> >> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action >> in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than >> the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >> >> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >> >> This message has been scanned for viruses. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______ >> ___________ >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dhb at flsi.com Wed May 25 14:15:55 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:15:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <000b01cc1a7c$73276410$59762c30$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02e401cc1b10$2c7d7d30$85787790$@com> Bill, This isn't going to be a one-time process. Here's how I use it: On StartUp, I fill global arrays with each form/subform's name, RecordSource, and whether the RecordSource is a temp table. Since I make heavy use of tabbed subforms, I bind them to temp tables that are filled on the fly. I call a function that checks the RecordSource array to tell me which temp table needs to be filled. I had this logic hard-coded on each master form before, but now it's a shared procedure and is much easier to add new forms. Another advantage is that I can fill the subform tables before I load the form. - Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Benson (VBACreations.Com) Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms You can use the database documenter select all forms, Under Include for Sections and Controls, pick Names and Properties (note if you have named your subforms with Subfrm in the controls' name, you only need to pick Names If you had to pick Names and Properties, then click the Properties button and deselect all but "Other Properties" to make things a little less voluminous. You can export the results to Word (or Excel if you think it will fit -- probably Excel 2007+ will have enough vertical space) Look for Subform/Subreport: [names will appear after these characters] The hard part is keeping track of what Form the control is on... a macro might help -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 8:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm still interested. BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in some other places. Your other brother, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" by Rick Fisher for this sort of job <> you can use the free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns [dhb at flsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms list :-) frmMain frmMain_subCustomersList frmMain_subCustomerDetails > I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my > application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over > Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every > form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I > tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine out > there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From vbacreations at gmail.com Wed May 25 15:01:00 2011 From: vbacreations at gmail.com (William Benson (VBACreations.Com)) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 16:01:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> John, Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get the details you want. I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend one, it would be Allforms lol) Bill -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms Bill, Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought this was regarding subforms in Access. What in the heck is the doc/xls? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>> " probably the only way to do it" > Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to > write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines > in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. > > Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms > since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >> still interested. >> >> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >> some other places. >> Your other brother, >> Darrell >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >> Collins >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >> bottom of this message. >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> >> >> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" > by Rick >> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use the >> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >> [dhb at flsi.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >> list :-) >> >> frmMain >> frmMain_subCustomersList >> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >> >> >> >>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> >> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >> addressed. >> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >> review, >> >> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >> >> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >> >> This message has been scanned for viruses. >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ______ >> ___________ >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 26 05:08:44 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 06:08:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform controls at runtime. I call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that control does not have a subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different subforms into the same subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The upshot is that the documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick these up. I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > John, > > Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible > ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with > Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative > > The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel > file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get > the details you want. > > I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend > one, it would be Allforms lol) > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > Bill, > > Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought > this was regarding subforms in Access. > > What in the heck is the doc/xls? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>> " probably the only way to do it" >> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >> >> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>> still interested. >>> >>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>> some other places. >>> Your other brother, >>> Darrell >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>> bottom of this message. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> >>> >>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >> by Rick >>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use > the >>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>> list :-) >>> >>> frmMain >>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>> >>> >>> >>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>> addressed. >>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>> review, >>> >>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>> >>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>> >>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>> >>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu May 26 11:25:05 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:25:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007+ 64-bit unanticipated problem Message-ID: Like many others on this list, I have come to value MzTools as absolutely indispensable. However, I have recently discovered that it will not run in a 64-bit environment (unless I install Office 32-bit, which I am reluctant to do). The author of MzTools has declared his intention never to do a 64-bit version. Bummer! So now I'm reduced to copying the headers and error handlers from old procedures to new ones, or alternatively, Saving the App in 32-bit version, running MzTools there, and copying the generated code and documentation back to the 64-bit version. Either way, it sucks. Unlike some developers here, I have committed to the 64-bit version, and believe that the days of 32-bit are numbered. So I may ultimately be forced to reverse-engineer MzTools, revise some portions I'm less than happy with, and release something called ArtfulToolsVBA64. Well, now that I'm semi-retired, with just one remaining client (who is undyingly faithful), perhaps I've got the time available to embark on this project. So, a word of caution: either don't commit to the new format or install a 32-bit version of Office so this problem won't arise. Sadly, Arthur From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 26 13:26:05 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:26:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 13:36:51 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:36:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 26 13:56:53 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:56:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu May 26 13:56:07 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:56:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: All, Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. I have never experimented with this area before. We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the date that the Email was sent. I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure where to start. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Brad From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:09:23 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:09:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: http://www.helenfeddema.com/ Helen's the automation queen as far as I'm concerned. Have fun! Susan H. > All, > > Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. > > I have never experimented with this area before. > > We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the > date that the Email was sent. > > I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure > where to start. > > Any advice would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:32:17 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:32:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com><9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and enter the string to id the patient? Susan H. > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to > track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked > them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying > yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return > and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll > need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 26 14:34:47 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:34:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> John, Are your JIT subforms pre-bound to a table or query, or do you create the recordsource on the fly? DB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform controls at runtime. I call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that control does not have a subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different subforms into the same subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The upshot is that the documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick these up. I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: > John, > > Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is possible > ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with > Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative > > The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an Excel > file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and get > the details you want. > > I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend > one, it would be Allforms lol) > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > Bill, > > Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought > this was regarding subforms in Access. > > What in the heck is the doc/xls? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>> " probably the only way to do it" >> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >> >> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>> still interested. >>> >>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>> some other places. >>> Your other brother, >>> Darrell >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>> Collins >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>> bottom of this message. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> >>> >>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >> by Rick >>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use > the >>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>> list :-) >>> >>> frmMain >>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>> >>> >>> >>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>> addressed. >>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>> review, >>> >>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>> >>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>> >>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>> >>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> ______ >>> ___________ >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dhb at flsi.com Thu May 26 14:53:06 2011 From: dhb at flsi.com (Darrell Burns) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:53:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Hi John. Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. And the DOB should always be in YYYYMMDD order. As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. HTH, Darrell -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 11:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [Spam]8.31 Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > looking for opinions on this... =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to all this trouble? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 14:58:55 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:58:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins><4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: I agree John -- hence my questions. I don't think this custom id is necessary and is apt to cause you trouble. Susan H. > Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other > words, > a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his > surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead > of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the > same > key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a > unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You > may > want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be > indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build > an > index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. And the DOB should always be in > YYYYMMDD order. > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu May 26 15:13:54 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:13:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in trouble. Charlotte Foust On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM, John Clark wrote: > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. > >>>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> >> 1) >> The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique >> identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. ?The only personal data I am >> getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This >> is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from >> infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. >> >> The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 >> letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle >> initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits >> of DoB. >> >> For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be >> assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 >> >> It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just >> looking for opinions on this... > > > =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If > you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to > all this trouble? > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From markamatte at hotmail.com Thu May 26 15:26:35 2011 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 20:26:35 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, Message-ID: I am also doing quite a bit with company/individual name and address matching...and you gave the perfect example that causes issues: Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 Age 5 Joe comes in...age 10 Joseph comes in...age 14...he switched to using his middle name in high school. I don't remember who suggested it...but I liked the idea of the lookup in the interface to choose the existing patient. Mark A. Matte > Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:13:54 -0700 > From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for > yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they > need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a > fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of > the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the > one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but > that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. > They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in > trouble. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM, John Clark > wrote: > > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying yes. > > > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. > > > >>>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 2:36 P >>> > >> 1) > >> The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique > >> identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am > >> getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This > >> is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from > >> infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > >> > >> The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 > >> letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle > >> initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits > >> of DoB. > >> > >> For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be > >> assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > >> > >> It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just > >> looking for opinions on this... > > > > > > =========Who's going to use this identifier and how will they apply it? If > > you just need a unique value, just use an AutoNumber. Why are you going to > > all this trouble? > > > > Susan H. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu May 26 15:35:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:35:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> John, <> You need to: 1. Use an auto number as the "primary key" for the table. 2. Add an additional index on the table based on the last name, first name, middle init and DOB (this is the true primary key). You should never use parts of field as part of a key. It's the whole field or nothing. 3. Provide a lookup in the interface for the user to select the right person based on the true primary key. The auto number just gains you performance within the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 02:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Thu May 26 15:40:27 2011 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:40:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <3B7C6FE531914A16AA72EF738DA064F4@XPS> Message-ID: For tracking here we use gender, date of Birth, last 4 of the ssn, first two letters of the last name (Birth name) My tracking ID would be 1091319490687TE Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 4:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions John, <> You need to: 1. Use an auto number as the "primary key" for the table. 2. Add an additional index on the table based on the last name, first name, middle init and DOB (this is the true primary key). You should never use parts of field as part of a key. It's the whole field or nothing. 3. Provide a lookup in the interface for the user to select the right person based on the true primary key. The auto number just gains you performance within the DB. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 02:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu May 26 15:48:21 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:48:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, Message-ID: <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> The same problem will exist with a lookup interface, but the potential error will be more obvious--hopefully. If you force the user to create the id on the fly, they're liable to generate an id that exists for someone else and never even know it. Joe T Murphy born on Dec 7th, 1994 Tom M Murphy albo born on Dec 7, 1994 So Joe T. comes in at 14 and gives his name as Tom Murphy, the user plugs in MURTO?120794 which pulls up MURTOM120794 when Joe's id is actually MURJOT120794 but the user isn't paying attention and loads away...of course, you could build in protection, but the potential's there. You'll have the same problem with a lookup interface, but at least, it will be more obvious that there's more than one Murphy on the same birthdate -- not sure how to avoid a problem like this other than having other than forcing the user to ask for more information when there's more than one record that might fulfill a request. "I have two Murphy's born on that date -- can I have your full name please?" -- interesting problem. Don't these folks have a patient id? How would the dentist in question identify the two patients -- what criteria are they currently using? I have this sort of problem a lot -- even when I write my name down, people have trouble with it and want to pull up records for Susan Hawkins, Susan Parkins, Susan Haskins -- happens to me all the time. So, this is really more than a database design problem. Susan H. > > I am also doing quite a bit with company/individual name and address > matching...and you gave the perfect example that causes issues: > Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 > > Age 5 Joe comes in...age 10 Joseph comes in...age 14...he switched to > using his middle name in high school. > > I don't remember who suggested it...but I liked the idea of the lookup in > the interface to choose the existing patient. > >> >> What Susan is trying to say politely is that you're making work for >> yourself. Your users don't need to see the unique identifier, they >> need to see the information on the client. So provide them with a >> fill in textbox or two to enter a name and then show them a list of >> the clients showing name, last visit, etc., and let them select the >> one they want to see. They may THINK they need a shortcut ID, but >> that leads to other shortcuts that lead to corrupted records and data. >> They try to memorize IDs to speed things up and it gets them in >> trouble. >> >> Charlotte Foust From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu May 26 18:30:13 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 01:30:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <0C4789195145441983C735DCD931CF4B@abpc> John, For once a question, I'm fit to answer - the dumb one ;-) Office Button -> Access Options -> Current Database -> Select "Overlapping Windows" instead of "Tabbed Documents" Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af John Clark Sendt: 26. maj 2011 20:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] 2 quick questions 1) The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... 2) This one is a dumb one... I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? Thanks...J Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Thu May 26 22:15:18 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:15:18 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] HyperlinkAddress Message-ID: New to me: OnClick of a form's command button has this - Me.btnName.HyperlinkAddress = "http://fs3/truck/rptTruckPortAll.asp" I presume that the asp is on a server somewhere. I have a local copy which is a text file containing vbScript (looks like ADO connection strings) followed by HTML for the layout of the data. The customer has a brand new Server configuration so this has broken. I assume all I need to do is to get them to give me the new location and replace the code line above? Stephen Bond From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 26 22:38:57 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 13:38:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] HyperlinkAddress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDF1CD1.12481.EFB35EC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That should work as long as the ADO connection strings are still correct. However if they have reconfigured servers, you may need to change the connection strings in the .asp file to point to wherever the data is now as well. -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 15:15, Stephen Bond wrote: > New to me: > > OnClick of a form's command button has this - > > Me.btnName.HyperlinkAddress = > "http://fs3/truck/rptTruckPortAll.asp" > > I presume that the asp is on a server somewhere. I have a local copy > which is a text file containing vbScript (looks like ADO connection > strings) followed by HTML for the layout of the data. The customer > has a brand new Server configuration so this has broken. I assume all > I need to do is to get them to give me the new location and replace > the code line above? > > Stephen Bond > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 27 00:55:46 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 01:55:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). A. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 01:06:29 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 16:06:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the item concerned or to it's container. Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > are an excellent example). > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri May 27 08:18:47 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , , <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in a dozen or more table relationships is changed. Dan PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the item concerned or to it's container. Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > are an excellent example). > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:24:34 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:24:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com><9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already been there, and what data they provided at that time. And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and enter the string to id the patient? Susan H. > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want to > track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I asked > them if they want to know if these same clients return and they are saying > yes. > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they return > and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at 20, they'll > need a way to tell that this was the same person each time. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:35:00 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:35:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> >>> "Darrell Burns" 5/26/2011 3:53 P >>> Hi John. Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. *** You bring up good points, but this is all the info I have to work with. But, I will probably change to include more of the first name, and maybe even the last name too. *** I do use the autonumber in the table; I am just using this one for searching and tracking purposes. *** If '49 was entered for the birthday it would kick it out, because the person is too old for the survey. But, I understand your point, and in my case it is a minimal risk of error...there is immediate feedback on age, so it would probably stick out, if it weren't close. And, I may build in some validation features as well. *** the adoption...or change of use of MI...did occur to me, but I really don't have many other options. And the DOB should always be in YYYYMMDD order. *** Why? Seriously...I am not challenging your claim, but I'd really like to learn about this. What does the order really matter? It isn't a big deal to change this, but before I do things like this I like to know why...so w/I am asked I don't just confess to being a blind follower. As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. *** Thank you...I did not know this and it was driving me nuts. HTH, Darrell ----- From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:37:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:37:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDFB711.6070708@colbyconsulting.com> I second the autonumber as the (surrogate) PK but I use a hash (discussed previously) to hash the full name and DOB (in this case) to get as unique an identifier as you possibly can boiled down to a single field. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 2:26 PM, John Clark wrote: > 1) > The data for the program I am working on, comes w/no real good unique identifier, so I'm trying to create my own. The only personal data I am getting is name (last, first, MI) and DoB. The rest is survey data. This is a dental survey form, and they want to track clients if/as they go from infant to adult, so I told them we need some sort of identifier. > > The method I've come up with, to create an identifier is using the 1st 3 letters of the last name, the 1st 2 of the first name, the middle initial...if there isn't one, I place an "X" into the ID...then 6 digits of DoB. > > For example: a client named Joe T Murphy, born on Dec 7th, 1994 would be assigned an ID of MURJOT120794 > > It is not air-tight, so to speak, but I don't see another way...I'm just looking for opinions on this... > > 2) > This one is a dumb one... > > I don't like whole screen forms, if they're not needed. In all the earlier versions of access, if you didn't have your form maximized in design view, it would default to run in a smaller window. But, w/A07 it doesn't seem to work this way. My form keeps running full screen and I don't want that...how do I do this? > > Thanks...J Clark From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 27 09:41:07 2011 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:41:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> References: , <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins>, <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com>, <955BC577EB624C5C8ADBC52D465B1419@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4DDF7FC30200006B0001FC7B@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 4:48 P >>> The same problem will exist with a lookup interface, but the potential error will be more obvious--hopefully. If you force the user to create the id on the fly, they're liable to generate an id that exists for someone else and never even know it. Joe T Murphy born on Dec 7th, 1994 Tom M Murphy albo born on Dec 7, 1994 So Joe T. comes in at 14 and gives his name as Tom Murphy, the user plugs in MURTO?120794 which pulls up MURTOM120794 when Joe's id is actually MURJOT120794 but the user isn't paying attention and loads away...of course, you could build in protection, but the potential's there. *** Well, then Joe would be a damn liar, eh?! ;o) *** Seriously though, how could I possibly account for someone giving me the wrong name...w/out having a SSN? Anybody can come in and tell us anything. You'll have the same problem with a lookup interface, but at least, it will be more obvious that there's more than one Murphy on the same birthdate -- not sure how to avoid a problem like this other than having other than forcing the user to ask for more information when there's more than one record that might fulfill a request. "I have two Murphy's born on that date -- can I have your full name please?" -- interesting problem. *** I've already been thinking about something like this...just if it comes up that it is already an entered name/ID. But, I probably wouldn't bother, unless in conflicted. Don't these folks have a patient id? How would the dentist in question identify the two patients -- what criteria are they currently using? *** There is no dentist involved actually. This is just a program through the health department, for tracking. I have this sort of problem a lot -- even when I write my name down, people have trouble with it and want to pull up records for Susan Hawkins, Susan Parkins, Susan Haskins -- happens to me all the time. So, this is really more than a database design problem. *** Oh, believe me...w/your name is "John Clark" you know all about this...hell, I've almost gotten arrested over it. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:41:29 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:41:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms In-Reply-To: <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> References: <4DD7B2FD.6040206@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DDAC226.4010704@colbyconsulting.com>, <027e01cc1a5c$7cf7f4c0$76e7de40$@com> <4DDC2C80.30045.3806E6D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <027f01cc1a60$838adc40$8aa094c0$@com> <201105250013.p4P0DJik025075@databaseadvisors.com> <029801cc1a76$1b2cb680$51862380$@com> <4DDD0292.9030500@colbyconsulting.com> <001901cc1ae8$911159b0$b3340d10$@gmail.com> <4DDD3435.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <001a01cc1b16$7a12baa0$6e382fe0$@gmail.com> <4DDE26AC.8020903@colbyconsulting.com> <003401cc1bdb$f9226370$eb672a50$@com> Message-ID: <4DDFB819.7010900@colbyconsulting.com> Usually they are bound to a query. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 3:34 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: > John, > Are your JIT subforms pre-bound to a table or query, or do you create the > recordsource on the fly? > DB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms > > In any event, as I mentioned, it is possible to bind subforms into subform > controls at runtime. I > call it Just In Time subforms. The subform control is there but that > control does not have a > subform bound in it. In fact once common technique is to bind different > subforms into the same > subform control. This is done all the time in Microsoft's wizards. The > upshot is that the > documentor does not know that a subform is a subform, nor will the loop pick > these up. > > I use JIT subforms extensively to speed up loading of complex forms. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/25/2011 4:01 PM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >> John, >> >> Hope this is clear ... I don't do this very much. Just saying it is > possible >> ... and certainly I would use the loop method mentioned already, with >> Allforms - so this was just me describing an alternative >> >> The result of the database documentor can be exported to a Word or an > Excel >> file and if you use Excel or Word automation you can read that file and > get >> the details you want. >> >> I am not recommending one way over the other (well if I were to recommend >> one, it would be Allforms lol) >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:54 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >> >> Bill, >> >> Did I miss something? Why are you doing it in Excel or Word? I thought >> this was regarding subforms in Access. >> >> What in the heck is the doc/xls? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/25/2011 10:32 AM, William Benson (VBACreations.Com) wrote: >>>>> " probably the only way to do it" >>> Jon, with all due respect, I posted another way. It is very easy to >>> write a once-and-for-all macro in Excel or Word to loop through lines >>> in the output doc/xls and make a listing of subform controls... >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:22 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>> >>> That's probably the only way to do it. Any form could be a subform. >>> >>> Unfortunately even this won't work if you use Just-In-Time subforms >>> since the subforms aren't bound until runtime. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 5/24/2011 8:53 PM, Darrell Burns wrote: >>>> I sorta figured it out, although it seems messy... >>>> 1. loop thru the Allforms collection, 2. open each form in acDesign >>>> and acHidden modes, 3. scan the controls for subforms and grab the >>>> names, 4. close each form If there's a more straightforward way, I'm >>>> still interested. >>>> >>>> BTW, thanx for the "Find and Replace" tip. That'll come in handy in >>>> some other places. >>>> Your other brother, >>>> Darrell >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl >>>> Collins >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:11 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >>>> bottom of this message. >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Any chance you can rename them? Or will your client get annoyed at >>>> you. If you can rename them then I use and recommend "Find and Replace" >>> by Rick >>>> Fisher for this sort of job<> you can use >> the >>>> free trial version, although I found the paid version paid for itself >>>> in about 5 mins flat (is is about $30 USD from memory). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Burns >>>> [dhb at flsi.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 8:18 AM >>>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> I do too, but my client wasn't so thoughtful. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:09 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] How do I create list of all forms/subforms >>>> >>>> That's why I use a naming convention in complex applications that >>>> specifically identifies subforms and keeps them together in the forms >>>> list :-) >>>> >>>> frmMain >>>> frmMain_subCustomersList >>>> frmMain_subCustomerDetails >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I want to generate a list of all the forms and their subforms in my >>>>> application (whether loaded or not). Right now I'm looping over >>>>> Application.CurrentProject.Allforms and getting the name of every >>>>> form, but the object doesn't distinguish a subform from a form. I >>>>> tried the Type property but they're all Type 2. Is there a routine >>>>> out there I can scarf? Thanx, Darrell >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>>> The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if >>>> any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>>> addressed. >>>> The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any >>>> review, >>>> >>>> retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any >>>> action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities >>>> other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>>> >>>> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and >>>> delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. >>>> >>>> The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, >>>> disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and >>>> any attached files, with the permission of the sender. >>>> >>>> This message has been scanned for viruses. >>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>> _ >>>> ______ >>>> ___________ >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:44:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:44:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> Message-ID: <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> Uh ohhh... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 1:55 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of Intelligent > Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and Fabian Pascal and the > inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a good thing, in certain > applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). > > A. From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri May 27 09:47:54 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:47:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> <4DDFB8CA.5090109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE2D3@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> This could be a good day on accessd ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions Uh ohhh... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 1:55 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts are an excellent example). > > A. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 09:53:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:53:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption Message-ID: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 10:28:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 01:28:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: , , <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. ? Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash of that info as a key. Then look that up if you are checking for duplicates. It dioesn't have to be user readable. -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already > been there, and what data they provided at that time. > > And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it > is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there > would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. > > >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> > Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually > going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and > enter the string to id the patient? > > Susan H. > > > > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate > > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want > > to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I > > asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and > > they are saying yes. > > > > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they > > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at > > 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each > > time. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:09:02 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:09:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of said tires a warning that there are potential issues. This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I shall use IKs. A. From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 27 11:13:03 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:13:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Message-ID: Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Fri May 27 11:20:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:20:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Only if the users have an MDB file that they are working with, and you'd have to open the form (via code) in design mode to make the change and then save it. All very messy. Much simpler way to do this is to save the date in a table. Then when the form opens you can look up the date in the table and then change the label caption. All this can be done in the form's Load event. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:13 PM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 27 11:36:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:36:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DDFD2F5.5030601@colbyconsulting.com> Uhhhh Ohhhhh... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/27/2011 12:09 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this > topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. > > > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I > tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational > analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which > refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I > don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until > several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need > build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of > said tires a warning that there are potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I > write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I > shall use IKs. > > A. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:52:16 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:52:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I've argued with experts about IKs like social security numbers. Their arguments always seem to boil down to, "Well, they don't USUALLY change, so that's OK." I prefer to violate strict normalization and include an IK that CAN be changed and an autonumber that can't. Then when the IK must be changed (i.e., wrong SSN), the connections among tables aren't lost. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > With all due respect, I suggest that you read some Codd and Date on this > topic.As for the complexities involved in use of IKs, it is brain-dead easy. > > > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this forum, I > tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than rational > analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis Date which > refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept them halfway. I > don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, unless and until > several of these instances have caused highway fatalities. Therefore, I need > build this (batch) into the design, so that I can report to all owners of > said tires a warning that there are potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app I > write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more likely I > shall use IKs. > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:55:56 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:55:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <9DD57E23037E4F38970F37359F5B7FE0@SusanHarkins> <4DDE6A350200006B0001FC38@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <003501cc1bde$88674260$9935c720$@com> <4DDF7E540200006B0001FC76@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: The YYYYMMDD date format always sorts in appropriate date order, regardless of the regional settings on your machine. That's why. You needn't even save it as a date, just a number or string. Charlotte Foust On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 7:35 AM, John Clark wrote: > > >>>> "Darrell Burns" 5/26/2011 3:53 P >>> > Hi John. > Basic rule of database design...don't use intelligent keys. In other words, > a key that may change over time (eg, Joe gets adopted and changes his > surname) or may be incorrect (eg, Joe's birthday was entered as 49 instead > of 94), or could be duplicated (Joe's twin sister Joelle would have the same > key). I deal with name/address data all the time and I always create a > unique sequential number (eg, Access's Autonumber) as a customer ID. You may > want to create a Lookup key, such as the one you proposed, which can be > indexed and used for searching. On a fairly small database, you can build an > index on the full lastname+firstname+DOB. > > *** You bring up good points, but this is all the info I have to work with. But, I will probably change to include more of the first name, and maybe even the last name too. > > *** I do use the autonumber in the table; I am just using this one for searching and tracking purposes. > > *** If '49 was entered for the birthday it would kick it out, because the person is too old for the survey. But, I understand your point, and in my case it is a minimal risk of error...there is immediate feedback on age, so it would probably stick out, if it weren't close. And, I may build in some validation features as well. > > *** the adoption...or change of use of MI...did occur to me, but I really don't have many other options. > > And the DOB should always be in > YYYYMMDD order. > *** Why? Seriously...I am not challenging your claim, but I'd really like to learn about this. What does the order really matter? It isn't a big deal to change this, but before I do things like this I like to know why...so w/I am asked I don't just confess to being a blind follower. > > As for the full-screen forms, go into Access options (big fat button in > upper left corner, then small button on bottom of dialog), select Current > Database, then check "Overlapping Windows". At the individual form level, > there's a property called "Fit to screen"...make sure it's set to No. > *** Thank you...I did not know this and it was driving me nuts. > > HTH, > Darrell > > ----- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri May 27 11:58:20 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:58:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at the methods and properties that are available. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] redemption We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From phpons at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:22:43 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 19:22:43 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi all, I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. Do you have any experience on that matter? In that case,would you share it with me? TIA, Philippe From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:39:58 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:39:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDF7BE20200006B0001FC71@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: The hash could never change in that case. So what happens if the name changes and someone else comes in with the old name? The mantra we always followed in my previous lives was "Always Check For Existing Keys First". Charlotte On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. > ? > > Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash of that info as a key. > Then look that ?up if you are checking for duplicates. ?It dioesn't have to be user readable. > > -- > Stuart > > On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > >> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already >> been there, and what data they provided at that time. >> >> And, no, the person entering data does not enter the number/rule...it >> is done automagically after they enter the other data. And, there >> would have to be a quick search to see if this id is already present. >> >> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> >> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users actually >> going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your rule and >> enter the string to id the patient? >> >> Susan H. >> >> >> > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 alternate >> > surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple times. They want >> > to track the clients and how their dental visit habits change. So, I >> > asked them if they want to know if these same clients return and >> > they are saying yes. >> > >> > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they >> > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally at >> > 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person each >> > time. >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Fri May 27 13:18:40 2011 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 14:18:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Lambert, I had mentioned saving the Date and concatenating it, which I think is the best way. However, do you have a reference or a procedure for Opening the Form in design view and modifying the label and saving it. I suppose it could be done as a separate process when the database is closed. I haven't tried opening a form in design mode and modifying with vba. TIA Jack -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Only if the users have an MDB file that they are working with, and you'd have to open the form (via code) in design mode to make the change and then save it. All very messy. Much simpler way to do this is to save the date in a table. Then when the form opens you can look up the date in the table and then change the label caption. All this can be done in the form's Load event. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jack and Pat Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:13 PM To: AccessD Group Discussion Subject: [AccessD] Modify label on a form in vba and save Hi Group, I had a question from an Access 2003 user. He has a Form with an option group and some labels. On one of the Options he wants to update the label to include the Date the option was selected. The result to be that when the Form is opened in Future, the label for that Option will show that "last used Date" appended to the original text. ?? Is it possible to Update the label on a form, and save the result via vba? Jack -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rls at WeBeDb.com Fri May 27 15:02:38 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:02:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From rls at WeBeDb.com Fri May 27 15:12:53 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:12:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67956FA3-B5AD-4A25-ACB1-ADAE60D8E59F@holly.arvixe.com> And in the case of social service agencies that deal with illegal aliens, the SSN can also be duplicated. I have seen that numerous times working with them on my application. At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:52:16 -0700 >From: Charlotte Foust >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >I've argued with experts about IKs like social security numbers. >Their arguments always seem to boil down to, "Well, they don't USUALLY >change, so that's OK." I prefer to violate strict normalization and >include an IK that CAN be changed and an autonumber that can't. Then >when the IK must be changed (i.e., wrong SSN), the connections among >tables aren't lost. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 17:45:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:45:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDF3F65.17544.F824B91@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4DE0297B.25507.1314BE62@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> There's nothing wrong with using a batch number or other Intelligent Key in your table. Just don't use is as a Primary/Foreign Key for relationships between other tables. :-) -- Stuart On 27 May 2011 at 12:09, Arthur Fuller wrote: > But that said, I am not a big fan of IKs. Like most of us on this > forum, I tend to favour AutoNumber out of force of habit rather than > rational analysis. I have read numerous things by Joe Celko and Chis > Date which refute the use of AutoNumber|Idnentity Keys, and I accept > them halfway. I don't give a fork from which a given tire was hatched, > unless and until several of these instances have caused highway > fatalities. Therefore, I need build this (batch) into the design, so > that I can report to all owners of said tires a warning that there are > potential issues. > > This is going to be extremely problematic to solve with the AutoNumber > scenario. An intelligent key could make the query dramatically > simpler. > > That's all I'm saying. I typically use AutoNumbers in almost every app > I write, but the more crucial and life-threatening the app, the more > likely I shall use IKs. > > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 27 17:51:43 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:51:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <4DDFC325.5027.1184F87D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4DE02AFF.7994.131AA7A8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Sub myForm_BeforeUpdate() .. Hash = CalcHash(FName,Lname,MI,DOB) ... End Sub On 27 May 2011 at 10:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > The hash could never change in that case. So what happens if the name > changes and someone else comes in with the old name? The mantra we > always followed in my previous lives was "Always Check For Existing > Keys First". > > Charlotte > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > > And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id is > > already present. ? > > > > Why not just put an index on the ffull name/dob fields or use a hash > > of that info as a key. Then look that ?up if you are checking for > > duplicates. ?It dioesn't have to be user readable. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 27 May 2011 at 10:24, John Clark wrote: > > > >> Well...yeah...they need to know when a child coming in has already > >> been there, and what data they provided at that time. > >> > >> And, no, the person entering data does not enter the > >> number/rule...it is done automagically after they enter the other > >> data. And, there would have to be a quick search to see if this id > >> is already present. > >> > >> >>> "Susan Harkins" 5/26/2011 3:32 P >>> > >> Do you really need this though? I mean... how are the users > >> actually going to apply it? Are they going to have to memorize your > >> rule and enter the string to id the patient? > >> > >> Susan H. > >> > >> > >> > It is going to be used to track their clients. There are 3 > >> > alternate surveys, but I think each one can be given multiple > >> > times. They want to track the clients and how their dental visit > >> > habits change. So, I asked them if they want to know if these > >> > same clients return and they are saying yes. > >> > > >> > So, if my example Joe T Murphy is entered as a 5 yr old, and they > >> > return and take another survey at 10, and then at 15 and finally > >> > at 20, they'll need a way to tell that this was the same person > >> > each time. > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat May 28 00:25:32 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:25:32 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display Message-ID: A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 28 05:19:06 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:19:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat May 28 05:42:31 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:42:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50265A3B3AEC42AB9D8A9FEBEC15E29C@abpc> And now I just noticed that the date field has a property called Show Date Picker, which you can set to Never. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Asger Blond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 12:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat May 28 06:27:04 2011 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 07:27:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007+ 64-bit unanticipated problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE0DC08.7060306@torchlake.com> Arthur, Could be a whole new career for you - translating good 32-bit apps into good 64-bit apps. :-) T Arthur Fuller wrote: > Like many others on this list, I have come to value MzTools as absolutely > indispensable. However, I have recently discovered that it will not run in a > 64-bit environment (unless I install Office 32-bit, which I am reluctant to > do). The author of MzTools has declared his intention never to do a 64-bit > version. Bummer! So now I'm reduced to copying the headers and error > handlers from old procedures to new ones, or alternatively, Saving the App > in 32-bit version, running MzTools there, and copying the generated code and > documentation back to the 64-bit version. Either way, it sucks. > > Unlike some developers here, I have committed to the 64-bit version, and > believe that the days of 32-bit are numbered. So I may ultimately be forced > to reverse-engineer MzTools, revise some portions I'm less than happy with, > and release something called ArtfulToolsVBA64. Well, now that I'm > semi-retired, with just one remaining client (who is undyingly faithful), > perhaps I've got the time available to embark on this project. > > So, a word of caution: either don't commit to the new format or install a > 32-bit version of Office so this problem won't arise. > > Sadly, > Arthur > From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 28 11:30:47 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:30:47 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi Philippe Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp A fully functional trial is available for download. Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners and their misbehaving. /gustav >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> Hi all, I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. Do you have any experience on that matter? In that case,would you share it with me? TIA, Philippe From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 13:27:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:27:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation Message-ID: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=1 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 13:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:39:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE14171.5070607@colbyconsulting.com> Never mind. I discovered I can just navigate to a url to get it and I can dynamically build that URL. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 2:27 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=1 > > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 28 15:13:03 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 13:13:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just a note John: This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the time you posted this. ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically display the photo. http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa ge=1 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 28 15:33:49 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 16:33:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. Google nc public offender website On the left hand site click Offender public search Find yourself. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note John: > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they > should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the > time you posted this. > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does > seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on > felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few > terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific > information. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web > page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically > display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa > ge=1 > From phpons at gmail.com Sat May 28 15:52:16 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:52:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thank's a lot for your input, it seems chestysoft provides the ocx I need. But who is this Simon Chester, and how would I reach him, if needed? He does not seem to be an AccessD guy, does he? Regards, Philippe 2011/5/28 Gustav Brock > Hi Philippe > > Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: > > http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp > > A fully functional trial is available for download. > > Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable > animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support > from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners > and their misbehaving. > > /gustav > > > >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> > Hi all, > > I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control > a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. > > Do you have any experience on that matter? > In that case,would you share it with me? > > TIA, > > Philippe > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From phpons at gmail.com Sat May 28 15:54:38 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:54:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Will you find DSK, our ex next "Pr?sident de la R?publique"? Philippe 2011/5/28 jwcolby > This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. > > Google > > nc public offender website > > On the left hand site click > > Offender public search > > Find yourself. ;) > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Just a note John: >> >> This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they >> should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within >> the >> time you posted this. >> >> ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does >> seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on >> felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few >> terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very >> specific >> information. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation >> >> Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web >> page? Notice the "click >> to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to >> automatically >> display the photo. >> >> >> http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 >> >> 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa >> ge=1 >> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat May 28 16:33:52 2011 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 09:33:52 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Asger, these both work well. I was looking for a global setting ... duhh. (I pick up my pension soon) Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Saturday, 28 May 2011 10:46 p.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display And now I just noticed that the date field has a property called Show Date Picker, which you can set to Never. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Asger Blond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 12:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display If you use an input mask for a date field the date picker will disappear. And if you actually don't want the input mask to restrict the entries just use a "dummy" mask like this: CCCCCCCCCC Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Bond Sendt: 28. maj 2011 07:26 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Access 2010 unwanted display A 2003 db running under 2010. On forms, clicking into a date field now shows a little calendar icon alongside. Is there an Option to turn this off? I've tried 'NoHelp' till I'm blue. TIA Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 28 19:10:32 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:10:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com> <725F895A0D90436E8333A6833C83FE30@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: It just seems strange to me. Working within a number of government projects there are some very strict guide-lines as to who has access to what data. It must be a state thing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] vba IE automation This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. Google nc public offender website On the left hand site click Offender public search Find yourself. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Just a note John: > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps they > should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire database within the > time you posted this. > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it does > seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking system, on > felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible through a very few > terminal and with multiple security levels and displaying only very specific > information. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on the web > page? Notice the "click > to show photo". I am displaying this on a form but I want to automatically > display the photo. > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0 > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpa > ge=1 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 28 20:29:33 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 11:29:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation In-Reply-To: <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4DE13EA5.3040706@colbyconsulting.com>, <4DE15C2D.5050101@colbyconsulting.com>, <528E89309D7F44418F8F426562B25CCC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4DE1A17D.20360.18D19906@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A quick google reveals similar websites for a number of US states. -- Stuart On 28 May 2011 at 17:10, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > It just seems strange to me. Working within a number of government > projects there are some very strict guide-lines as to who has access > to what data. It must be a state thing. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > This is a public website. It can be found in search engines. > > Google > > nc public offender website > > On the left hand site click > > Offender public search > > Find yourself. ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/28/2011 4:13 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Just a note John: > > > > This one link gives everyone access to a lot of data that perhaps > > they should not be seeing. I could have downloaded the entire > > database within > the > > time you posted this. > > > > ...but maybe it is all public knowledge and is open to anyone but it > > does seem strange to me as I worked with a RCMPs criminal checking > > system, on felons and it was locked down so tight; only accessible > > through a very few terminal and with multiple security levels and > > displaying only very > specific > > information. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:28 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] vba IE automation > > > > Can anyone look at a web site and tell me how to click a button on > > the web page? Notice the "click to show photo". I am displaying > > this on a form but I want to > automatically > > display the photo. > > > > > http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offend > erID=0 > > 075459&searchOffenderId=0075459&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults& > listpa > ge=1 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 29 02:34:48 2011 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 09:34:48 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can Access control a scanner? Message-ID: Hi Philippe Simon more or less is Chestysoft. >From the home page: "Chestysoft is owned by Simon Chester" /gustav >>> phpons at gmail.com 28-05-2011 22:52 >>> Hi Gustav, Thank's a lot for your input, it seems chestysoft provides the ocx I need. But who is this Simon Chester, and how would I reach him, if needed? He does not seem to be an AccessD guy, does he? Regards, Philippe 2011/5/28 Gustav Brock > Hi Philippe > > Sounds like a job for csXImage which I have recommend several times: > > http://www.chestysoft.com/ximage/default.asp > > A fully functional trial is available for download. > > Scanners - not to say their buggy drivers - are nasty and unpredictable > animals, and you will most likely - as I did - need the excellent support > from Simon Chester. I believe he knows just about anything about scanners > and their misbehaving. > > /gustav > > > >>> phpons at gmail.com 27-05-2011 19:22 >>> > Hi all, > > I have a customer, he want's his Access Application be able to control > a scanner, get the file, rename it and store it in a directory. > > Do you have any experience on that matter? > In that case,would you share it with me? > > TIA, > > Philippe From jimdettman at verizon.net Sun May 29 19:18:57 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 20:18:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon May 30 02:52:44 2011 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 08:52:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at the > methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security > nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move > for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those > things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the > MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening > outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was > moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder > that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being > there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the > folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 07:45:35 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 07:45:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon May 30 07:55:59 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (cjlabs) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 07:55:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Message-ID: I use ClickYes -- I send out hundreds of emails through Outlook at a time. I just turn ClickYes on, start the email routine, and walk away. There's nothing to click. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 08:57:03 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 08:57:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <001201cc1ec7$78f50330$6adf0990$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001b01cc1ed1$7658c8f0$630a5ad0$@comcast.net> That works differently than I knew about. But still, I don't need to train users how to do it - emails, and the MS Security Dialogbox, are just not displayed. Outlook Evader does have additional properties and methods which I've found pretty useful - like letting users decide if they want to save emails sent from my app to be saved in the Sent folder or not. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of cjlabs Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption I use ClickYes -- I send out hundreds of emails through Outlook at a time. I just turn ClickYes on, start the email routine, and walk away. There's nothing to click. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hi Mark, With ClickYes, you need to click a small button so that the MS security dialogbox acts like you've clicked 'Yes' even while the Yes button in disabled. With Outlook Evader, the MS security dialogbox just never appears. My applications send a lot of email behind the scenes, so there's a lot of difference for users between clicking something quickly and not clicking anything. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Hello John, I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. Mark On 27 May 2011 17:58, Dan Waters wrote: > I use Outlook Evader from www.everythingaccess.com. Take a look at > the methods and properties that are available. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS > security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail > object > (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property > msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus > the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently > opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it > was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in > the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't > show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* > back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:11:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:11:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) ? Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) ? Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:15:26 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:15:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> Mark, > I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. And that works well when it works well. In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to process... We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a > few years ago. > > It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the silly > dialogbox MS put in the way. > > Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. > > Mark From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Mon May 30 20:26:20 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 03:26:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> Jim, I don't want to reiterate this discussion but your comment puzzles me. I quite agree that an autonumber is not a primary key, but I would then hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be. So just to get you right I would like to know: Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a unique index on the autonumber field? And also: when implementing a foreign key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the autonumber key? If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then I disagree and we have a point of discussion. If not, I don't get the meaning in your comment. Then you are in accordance with Robert, and I suggest with most of us. The disagreement appears to me to be a matter of wording, or if you prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Mon May 30 20:32:17 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 20:32:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption Mark, > I also used a program named ClickYes a few years ago. And that works well when it works well. In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to process... We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years > ago. > > It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the > silly dialogbox MS put in the way. > > Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. > > Mark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 30 20:34:04 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:34:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: , , <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE4458C.17944.2322969C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Hear, hear! -- Stuart On 30 May 2011 at 21:11, jwcolby wrote: > Jim, > > >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that > says a primary key cannot change. > > First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational > model but I will just give you that one. No contest. > > Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: > > Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order > for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying > something like: > > Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do > care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. > > Just for the record, my hand is not up. > > Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* > change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not > the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or > fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add > one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all > hell breaks loose. > > Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with > your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to > say, you can give it a rest. > > I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better > damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could > refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it > the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could > avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. > > So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to > call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it > the PK around Jim" object and tell us. > > We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK > because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and > click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the > "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK > around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to > that as the PK. > > We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same > thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" > object and voila, MS calls it the PK. > > *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with > another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not > call it the PK around Jim" object. > > Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your > professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. > > I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. > > And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so > do I. > > Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them > however I am going to. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key > > There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: > > Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) > A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The > surrogate is internally generated by > the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. > Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) > A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The > surrogate is internally generated > by the system and is invisible to the user or application. > > http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 > > A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. > > It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used > for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate > primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. > > http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm > http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html > > 1. Common Key Terminology > > Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys > and then work through an example. These terms are: > > * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely > identify an entity. In a > physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns > whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. > * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more > attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of > attributes that already exist in the real world. > For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) > that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's > pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, > assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the > scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). > * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. > * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model > will have zero or more candidate > keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people > don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no > hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American > citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and > the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is > unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are > called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the > primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within > a physical data model. > * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. > * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another > unique identifier of a row > within a table. > * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that > represents a key, either > primary or secondary, in another entity type. > > I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is > precisely the above set of terms. > > Since every key uniquely identifies the row... > > The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with > the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database > designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was > selected because it is just that. > > As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the > (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real > world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the > relational model. > > As if I care. > > The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in > the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often > conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural > keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to > actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical > relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). > > You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality > we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is > where *I* live!". > > Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from > which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out > I still have to call myself uneducated! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > < > not dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational > > model is > > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list > > a while > > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a > > tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the > > data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is > > unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that > > combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and > > ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on > > every row > > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in > > relational terms is not a surrogate key. > > > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will > > ensure that a > > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, > > then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table > > (relation). > > > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number > > as a > > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need > > to create a unique index based on the PK. > > > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it > > can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, > > great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job > > done. > > > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > > shortcut. > > > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a > > name > > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's > > allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper > > on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. > > > > Jim. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 30 20:35:00 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:35:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: , <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com>, Message-ID: <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Models are not reality. (Neither in information systems nor in climate ) -- Stuart On 29 May 2011 at 20:18, Jim Dettman wrote: > There is nothing stated in any paper on the > relational model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 30 20:59:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:59:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com>, <4DE445C4.4889.23237353@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DE44B8B.3040602@colbyconsulting.com> Hear, Hear! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:35 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Models are not reality. (Neither in information systems nor in climate) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 10:05:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:05:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pulling info from Outlook into Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <4DDE62FD0200006B0001FC2C@nebnov3.niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4DE503C3.1060103@colbyconsulting.com> Have fun is RIGHT. I am doing Outlook automation from C# and the security warnings crapola every time you do anything is annoying / obnoxious. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/26/2011 3:09 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > http://www.helenfeddema.com/ > > Helen's the automation queen as far as I'm concerned. > > > > > > Have fun! > > Susan H. > > >> All, >> >> Recently, a need arose to pull data from Outlook into Access. >> >> I have never experimented with this area before. >> >> We need to pull the Email Subject Line, Body, and Sender based on the >> date that the Email was sent. >> >> I am guessing that this is not super difficult to do, but I am not sure >> where to start. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> Brad >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 10:07:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:07:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such as > folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, so if > you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you are trying to > process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome the >> silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 31 10:13:53 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:13:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many others. Arthur On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby wrote: > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 31 10:23:35 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:23:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> Hi John, If downloading is an issue, you might want to look at Outlook Evader again. For a c# windows form app, it is installed as a single file in your project: vbMAPI.cs or vbMAPI_cs4.cs (depending on your VS version). http://www.everythingaccess.com/vbmapi/csharptips.htm Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such > as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, > so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you > are trying to process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Tue May 31 10:31:55 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:31:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> All my customers are corporate, and they all use Outlook. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many others. Arthur On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby wrote: > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue May 31 11:24:20 2011 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:24:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> John, I do use Redemption but not any of the features you are trying to use. Have you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond whenever I've had questions. Doris Manning Senior Developer/Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [dba-VB] redemption We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security nonsense. We are using the RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was missing the mail.subject property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does have those things. We are still having two specific problems. 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the MailReceived event never fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to download every 1 minute. Clumsy! 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was moved to. IOW if we move a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were put into, the collection doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, *then* back in our code the folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:36:12 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:36:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, I am setting up an automated system for: 1) Receive an email with an Excel attachment 2) Strip the attachment, create a directory and place the attachment into it. 3) Create a SQL Server database (temporary) 4) Import a list of zips in each page of the spreadsheet into a matching table in the database 5) Count the household / population in those zips 6) generate an email back out with the counts in the body of the email. The objective is that the client sends an email that matches strict criteria (Count name in the subject, files have count name pattern in the file name etc) and have the system automatically pick up the email (pull it into the server), get the attachment and process it. I went looking and all I could find for automating GMail was web crapola, IOW if you wanted to do stuff with it on your web site. I need it on my server. I am not using outlook per se, I am trying to get an object that is a POP or CDO or whatever. Something that will pull data into a email store local to my computer that I can manipulate. No one spoke up when I asked how to do this. Now everyone has an opinion. OTOH I have actual running code that does this now, so opinions at this point do me no good. I already paid to develop this. I have a business to run, you know? When I ask and get no response I go figure it out myself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 11:13 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? I > just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my current > preference being gmail, but there are many others. > > Arthur > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >> We are using the free version of Redemption. >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:37:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:37:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> <002e01cc1fa6$b78f0f20$26ad2d60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE5194B.2010109@colbyconsulting.com> Dan, See my response to Arthur. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 11:23 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > Hi John, > > If downloading is an issue, you might want to look at Outlook Evader again. > For a c# windows form app, it is installed as a single file in your project: > vbMAPI.cs or vbMAPI_cs4.cs (depending on your VS version). > > http://www.everythingaccess.com/vbmapi/csharptips.htm > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ > > The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: >> What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption >> >> Mark, >> >> > I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years ago. >> >> And that works well when it works well. >> >> In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such >> as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop > up. >> Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, >> so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you >> are trying to process... >> >> We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better > fit. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >>> Hello John, >>> >>> I also used a program named >>> ClickYes a few years >>> ago. >>> >>> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >>> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >>> >>> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >>> >>> Mark >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 11:38:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:38:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] redemption In-Reply-To: <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <704BE61E43064893905FD26C21CC8595@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <4DE51995.7040006@colbyconsulting.com> >Have you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond whenever I've had questions. Not yet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 12:24 PM, Doris Manning wrote: > John, > > I do use Redemption but not any of the features you are trying to use. Have > you tried contacting Dmitri personally? He is usually very quick to respond > whenever I've had questions. > > Doris Manning > Senior Developer/Database Administrator > Hargrove Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:54 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [dba-VB] redemption > > We are trying to use Redemption (outlook) to get around the MS security > nonsense. We are using the > RDO portion because the SafeMail object (Outlook) side of redemption was > missing the mail.subject > property msg.move for moving a message from folder to another. The RDO does > have those things. > > We are still having two specific problems. > > 1) We are unable to find a way to cause RDO to download the mail, thus the > MailReceived event never > fires. As a result we are currently opening outlook and setting it up to > download every 1 minute. > Clumsy! > > 2) RDO.Msg.Move moves the message but we can't see it in the folder it was > moved to. IOW if we move > a bunch of mail items then go look in the folder that the mail items were > put into, the collection > doesn't show it as being there. If in Outlook we click on that folder, > *then* back in our code the > folder shows the mail items as being in the folder. > > If anyone is using this stuff please feel free to comment. > > Thanks, > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 31 13:49:22 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:49:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com> <001b01cc1c8f$48c3e300$da4ba900$@comcast.net> <4DE4412E.408@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cc1f32$94230290$bc6907b0$@comcast.net> <4DE50419.60707@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002d01cc1fc3$74feef50$5efccdf0$@cox.net> VB.Net has some nice classes to send email, but as far as I can tell nothing to receive it. I use the mail classes in several desktop apps and web sites. Your quest made me curious so I did a brief search. This link sounds like it addresses some of the same issues your facing; http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/programming-life/reading-email-using-mapi-in-vbn et-5855. I have no knowledge of using Redemption from .NET but this guy apparently has it working. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption We are using the free version of Redemption. http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ The only issue we have is causing it to perform the download. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/30/2011 9:32 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > What did you do to avoid Outlook entirely? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > Mark, > > > I also used a program named > ClickYes a few years ago. > > And that works well when it works well. > > In our case every time we accessed any (or many) of the objects such > as folders and the subject property of the email that warning would pop up. > Unfortunately ClickYes can't click until the button becomes enabled, > so if you have that thing popping up 4 or 5 times for everything you > are trying to process... > > We made a business decision that avoiding Outlook entirely was a better fit. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/30/2011 3:52 AM, Mark Breen wrote: >> Hello John, >> >> I also used a program named >> ClickYes a few years >> ago. >> >> It gave me an irrational pleasure that we could so easily overcome >> the silly dialogbox MS put in the way. >> >> Click yes, appears to be the same concept at Outlook evader. >> >> Mark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue May 31 14:51:34 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 14:51:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Wow... this almost looks like an email from me to JWC... did you start drinking rational juice lately or something John? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 15:06:21 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:06:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> John, My point and my only point was that the problem John was facing exactly illustrated the differences of a true Pk and what everyone calls a PK. In regards to surrogates, the dictionary definition of a "surrogate" means "to take the place of". If John adds an auto number to his table, is he not still faced with the exact same problem; how to distinguish one patient from another? Yes. Adding an auto number does nothing to solve that problem. If that auto number is called "PatientID" and is given to the person, is it now a surrogate? Yes. It has meaning and can no longer be reassigned at will. That is a surrogate key and can function as a PK. <> Boy, you missed the point of that question (it was not a statement). I wondered "which one of us uneducated?". The implication was that: 1. Either you because you care less about the theory and simply do things "because it works". 2. Or myself because I care about the theory even though at the end of the day, I still live in the real world and end up doing the same things as you do. In other words, I was questioning myself. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model but I will just give you that one. No contest. Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for your hand to be counted as up, you need to respond saying something like: Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care that nothing in any paper says... etc etc. Just for the record, my hand is not up. Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, only that it causes enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the business rules defining the field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. Add one field to the required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your academic friends. They will all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we could avoid this absolutely silly conversation yet another time. So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call this "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. Click on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and click the PK little golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer to that as the PK. We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing happens. Click the little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your professor friends call it the PK, and leave it alone. I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I am going to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is internally generated by the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate is internally generated by the system and is invisible to the user or application. http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for the primary key to the table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique for each row in the table. http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html 1. Common Key Terminology Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and then work through an example. These terms are: * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify an entity. In a physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose value(s) uniquely identifies a row within a relational table. * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more attributes. * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already exist in the real world. For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that is unique to them (this isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN could be used as a natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming the scope of your organization is limited to the U.S.). * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have zero or more candidate keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't believe in identifying candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if we only interact with American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type and the combination of name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a second candidate key. Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to be chosen as the primary key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical data model. * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique identifier of a row within a table. * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that represents a key, either primary or secondary, in another entity type. I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely the above set of terms. Since every key uniquely identifies the row... The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the fewest potential problems, actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The word Primary (I assume) was selected because it is just that. As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) relational model, and in fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is verboten in the relational model. As if I care. The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real world and we end up with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate keys were invented because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely unnecessary to actually use a natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where surrogate keys are verboten). You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we wouldn't have surrogate keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which that metaphor came, though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself uneducated! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is > exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while > back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a > pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how > to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John > is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which > identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row > (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational > terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a > row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then > more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a > pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create > a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for > performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead > to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end > of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that > shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name > change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for > cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational > model that says a primary key cannot change. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 15:35:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:35:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <4DE4404B.8000804@colbyconsulting.com> <254780A6163846A9A96C3A6643FE8EB7@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE55101.9040000@colbyconsulting.com> > In other words, I was questioning myself. LOL, nice save. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:06 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > My point and my only point was that the problem John was facing exactly > illustrated the differences of a true Pk and what everyone calls a PK. > > In regards to surrogates, the dictionary definition of a "surrogate" means > "to take the place of". > > If John adds an auto number to his table, is he not still faced with the > exact same problem; how to distinguish one patient from another? Yes. > Adding an auto number does nothing to solve that problem. If that auto > number is called "PatientID" and is given to the person, is it now a > surrogate? Yes. It has meaning and can no longer be reassigned at will. > That is a surrogate key and can function as a PK. > > < which that metaphor came, > though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself > uneducated!>> > > Boy, you missed the point of that question (it was not a statement). I > wondered "which one of us uneducated?". The implication was that: > > 1. Either you because you care less about the theory and simply do things > "because it works". > > 2. Or myself because I care about the theory even though at the end of the > day, I still live in the real world and end up doing the same things as you > do. > > > In other words, I was questioning myself. > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > Jim, > > >There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a > primary key cannot change. > > First, I highly doubt that you have read every paper on the relational model > but I will just give > you that one. No contest. > > Having said that, I am going to take a show of hands and ask: > > Does anyone on this list actually care about this statement? In order for > your hand to be counted > as up, you need to respond saying something like: > > Yes, papers on the relational model matter a great deal to me and I do care > that nothing in any > paper says... etc etc. > > Just for the record, my hand is not up. > > Just for the record, I don't remember anyone saying that it *can't* change, > only that it causes > enormous problems if it does change. Not the *DATA* changing, but the > business rules defining the > field or fields that define the PK. And it can cause enormous problems. > Add one field to the > required set of fields forming a natural PK and all hell breaks loose. > > Jim, you need to be having this conversation (relation model) with your > academic friends. They will > all agree and, with nothing else to say, you can give it a rest. > > I asked you for another name for the "autonumber surrogate key, better > damned well not call it the > PK around Jim" object so that we could refer to the "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well > not call it the PK around Jim" object by whatever you desire so that we > could avoid this absolutely > silly conversation yet another time. > > So please, before you leave this thread, figure out what you want to call > this "autonumber surrogate > key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and tell us. > > We (*almost* everyone except yourself) call the "autonumber surrogate key, > better damned well not > call it the PK around Jim" object the PK because Microsoft calls it that. > Click on the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object and > click the PK little > golden key tool and once Microsoft makes the "autonumber surrogate key, > better damned well not call > it the PK around Jim" object the PK (they called it that), they then refer > to that as the PK. > > We live and work in a Microsoft world. In SQL Server the exact same thing > happens. Click the > little golden key tool on the "autonumber surrogate key, better damned well > not call it the PK > around Jim" object and voila, MS calls it the PK. > > *YOU* are the one with the problem. *YOU* need to come up with another name > for the "autonumber > surrogate key, better damned well not call it the PK around Jim" object. > > Or better yet, just accept the fact that everyone except you and your > professor friends call it the > PK, and leave it alone. > > I for one am really, really *really* tired of the same old same old. > > And I for one am telling you, that since Microsoft calls it the PK, so do I. > > Given the nature of Wikipedia I am not a huge fan of quoting them however I > am going to. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogate_key > > There are at least two definitions of a surrogate: > > Surrogate (1) - Hall, Owlett and Codd (1976) > A surrogate represents an entity in the outside world. The surrogate is > internally generated by > the system but is nevertheless visible to the user or application. > Surrogate (2) - Wieringa and De Jonge (1991) > A surrogate represents an object in the database itself. The surrogate > is internally generated > by the system and is invisible to the user or application. > > http://datawarehouse.ittoolbox.com/documents/surrogate-key-18121 > > A surrogate key is a substitution for the natural primary key. > > It is just a unique identifier or number for each row that can be used for > the primary key to the > table. The only requirement for a surrogate primary key is that it is unique > for each row in the table. > > http://databases.about.com/cs/administration/g/primarykey.htm > http://www.agiledata.org/essays/keys.html > > 1. Common Key Terminology > > Let's start by describing some common terminology pertaining to keys and > then work through an > example. These terms are: > > * Key. A key is one or more data attributes that uniquely identify > an entity. In a > physical database a key would be formed of one or more table columns whose > value(s) uniquely > identifies a row within a relational table. > * Composite key. A key that is composed of two or more > attributes. > * Natural key. A key that is formed of attributes that already > exist in the real world. > For example, U.S. citizens are issued a Social Security Number (SSN) that > is unique to them (this > isn't guaranteed to be true, but it's pretty darn close in practice). SSN > could be used as a > natural key, assuming privacy laws allow it, for a Person entity (assuming > the scope of your > organization is limited to the U.S.). > * Surrogate key. A key with no business meaning. > * Candidate key. An entity type in a logical data model will have > zero or more candidate > keys, also referred to simply as unique identifiers (note: some people don't > believe in identifying > candidate keys in LDMs, so there's no hard and fast rules). For example, if > we only interact with > American citizens then SSN is one candidate key for the Person entity type > and the combination of > name and phone number (assuming the combination is unique) is potentially a > second candidate key. > Both of these keys are called candidate keys because they are candidates to > be chosen as the primary > key, an alternate key or perhaps not even a key at all within a physical > data model. > * Primary key. The preferred key for an entity type. > * Alternate key. Also known as a secondary key, is another unique > identifier of a row > within a table. > * Foreign key. One or more attributes in an entity type that > represents a key, either > primary or secondary, in another entity type. > > I have to tell you Jim, that what I learned in the real world is precisely > the above set of terms. > > Since every key uniquely identifies the row... > > The PK is nothing more than the most convenient Key, or the key with the > fewest potential problems, > actually selected by the database designer to represent the record. The > word Primary (I assume) was > selected because it is just that. > > As I understand it, the surrogate key did not exist in the (mathematical) > relational model, and in > fact, since it is not a real world property of the object being modeled, is > verboten in the > relational model. > > As if I care. > > The point Jim is that with all due respects to academia, we live in the real > world and we end up > with a vocabulary (and tools) that often conflicts with academia. Surrogate > keys were invented > because natural keys were clumsy and a royal PITA and it is entirely > unnecessary to actually use a > natural key as the PK (except in the mathematical relational model where > surrogate keys are verboten). > > You may argue till the cows come home that if it weren't for reality we > wouldn't have surrogate > keys, and I will say "reality is, and is where *I* live!". > > Jim, you are tilting at windmills. And yes I have read the book from which > that metaphor came, > though I believe it is you that pointed out I still have to call myself > uneducated! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/29/2011 8:18 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> <> dependant on data. For db system use only>> >> >> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is >> exactly opposite of what you describe. >> >> John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a > while >> back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or > a >> pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how >> to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, > John >> is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which >> identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. >> >> That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every > row >> (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational >> terms is not a surrogate key. >> >> John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure > that a >> row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then >> more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). >> >> For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a >> pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to > create >> a unique index based on the PK. >> >> He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for >> performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can > lead >> to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the > end >> of the day, it may be required to get the job done. >> >> Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that >> shortcut. >> >> And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name >> change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for >> cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational >> model that says a primary key cannot change. >> >> Jim. From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 15:39:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:39:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> Message-ID: <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> Asgar, <> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is physically stored. That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. <> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. <> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 09:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Jim, I don't want to reiterate this discussion but your comment puzzles me. I quite agree that an autonumber is not a primary key, but I would then hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be. So just to get you right I would like to know: Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a unique index on the autonumber field? And also: when implementing a foreign key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the autonumber key? If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then I disagree and we have a point of discussion. If not, I don't get the meaning in your comment. Then you are in accordance with Robert, and I suggest with most of us. The disagreement appears to me to be a matter of wording, or if you prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions <> Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is exactly opposite of what you describe. John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row (an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational terms is not a surrogate key. John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create a unique index based on the PK. He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end of the day, it may be required to get the job done. Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that shortcut. And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational model that says a primary key cannot change. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Stewart Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions Primary Key = Nothing a user can use for anything and is totally not dependant on data. For db system use only Business Key = Something within the data that is unique and can be used by a user for identification. Business Keys can be one or more fields, when more than one, it is a Composite Business Key. Remember the above and you will not have any issues. Example: tlkp_NameSuffix NameSuffixID Autonumber NameSuffix Text(30) NameSuffixID is the primary key NameSuffix is the business key, and has a unique index on it. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com At 01:18 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:18:47 -0500 >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions >Message-ID: <001101cc1c70$9d48a380$d7d9ea80$@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >A field with an 'Intelligent Key' is fine - as long as you don't use it in a >table relationship. In other words, always have an arbitrary (autonumber, >etc.) key as the key that is used in table relationships. That way you'll >NEVER have to spend hours or days rebuilding tables when the key you used in >a dozen or more table relationships is changed. > >Dan > >PS - Even RFID's can be swapped out, and Tattoos can be removed! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:06 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] [Spam]8.31 Re: 2 quick questions > >Intelligent Keys are an excellent concept when you can attach them to the >item concerned or to it's container. > >Unless you can tattoo them or implant an RFID chip, there is little point in >trying to use IKs to identify people. :-) > >-- >Stuart > >On 27 May 2011 at 1:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I don't know where you obtained this rule against the use of > > Intelligent Keys, but I seriously object, and cite Chris Date and > > Fabian Pascal and the inestimable Joe Celko for reasons why IKs are a > > good thing, in certain applications (eggs are a bad example; car parts > > are an excellent example). > > > > A. > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rls at WeBeDb.com Tue May 31 16:05:39 2011 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:05:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A6AB3D3-7E49-4837-BB59-080EDAA371BE@holly.arvixe.com> Sorry Jim, but as John pointed out, you are not living in the real world. I am NOT going to use a composite natural key for a primary key. Why, well, for the same reason John would not. I am not going to tie up the database doing an update to hundreds of thousands of records if I change the natural key. If I use an IDENTITY (autonumber in MS Access), I never change it and do not have to contend with a cascading update. Check the definitions and then realize that you are talking about a logical model and not a physical implementation of that logical model. The absolute only time a composite natural key is valid for use is in the fact table of a data mart.warehouse. And, except in very rare occasions, depending on they type of dimensions you are building, you might cause an update of data. Head knowledge is nice for some things, but real live experience will beat out that any day. Robert At 02:51 PM 5/31/2011, you wrote: >Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman >Sendt: 30. maj 2011 02:19 >Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Emne: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > ><dependant on data. For db system use only>> > > Pure hogwash. The very definition of a PK in the relational model is >exactly opposite of what you describe. > > John's problem is exactly what I tried to point out on this list a while >back; there is a fundamental difference between a primary key and a tag or a >pointer. John's problem is related to the meaning of the data itself; how >to determine that a row within the relation is unique. In other words, John >is looking for the primary key; that combination of attributes which >identifies a specific row and ensures that the row is not duplicated. > > That is not the same thing as adding a unique tag or pointer on every row >(an auto number). And despite popular belief, a auto number in relational >terms is not a surrogate key. > > John needs to come up with a key based on the data that will ensure that a >row is unique. If the field(s) used to do that cannot ensure that, then >more fields (attributes) need to be added to the table (relation). > > For *performance* reasons in the DB, he will use an auto number as a >pointer (like all of us do), but in addition to that, he will need to create >a unique index based on the PK. > > He might take the shortcut of making that index a hash, which for >performance reasons may be required, but it's a bad idea because it can lead >to an update abnormalities. If you can live with that, great and at the end >of the day, it may be required to get the job done. > > Since it's only one index on the main table, I wouldn't take that >shortcut. > > And as far as the primary key not being able to change (as in a name >change or SS#), again total hogwash. That's why relational DB's allow for >cascading updates. There is nothing stated in any paper on the relational >model that says a primary key cannot change. > >Jim. Robert L. Stewart www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 16:08:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:08:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I understand your angst (though I do not participate in your angst). Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split the PK concept into: 1) Pointer 2) Unique index on a selected key. Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique index. Which of course is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) and the unique index can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK goes away. I embrace that with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both and cannot be split into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK is (at least when surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* more importantly, everybody that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception of you) uses word PK in the same manner as I do. Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor creating the unique index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as distinct from and not necessarily related to the pointer between records. >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We must select the pointer, and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were told by the world to call the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. What is Lead? 1) A metal 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. 3) The position out in front. We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. We are doing that here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the pointer and the selected key) the same name and you go ballistic. We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need to participate in the angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in your angst. Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Asgar, > > < hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the > *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> > > Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary > Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals > with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is > physically stored. > > That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one > states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in > database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly > design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table > represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then > all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the > "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a > physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. > > John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", > he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. > > < Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a > unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a foreign > key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto > number key?>> > > Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a > unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might > even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even > though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking > the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. > > But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If > you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. > > < prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a > *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> > > In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a > physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row > uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. > > Jim. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 31 16:22:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 07:22:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <002f01cc1fa7$dff3d440$9fdb7cc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE55C1C.26.2762C907@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> So are mine, but I don't use it personally. I'ts Pegasus Mail for me personally - and has been for about 15 years :-) For email automation, I make sure that everything is client neutral, that's why I use things like Blat. -- Stuart On 31 May 2011 at 10:31, Dan Waters wrote: > All my customers are corporate, and they all use Outlook. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] redemption > > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using Outlook? > I just don't get it. There are so many superior alternatives, my > current preference being gmail, but there are many others. > > Arthur > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > We are using the free version of Redemption. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 31 16:31:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 07:31:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't recall you asking how to do this. It would be about an hour to develop a system to do it using a combination of Pegasus Mail, PowerBasic and SQLTools, and Blat. A few hours to do the whole thing as a single standalone application with PB/SQL Tools coding simple POP3 and SMTP client modules in the application. Most of the code required is already available either in the samples that come with the compiler on the forums at wwww.powerbasic.com :-) -- Stuart On 31 May 2011 at 12:36, jwcolby wrote: > Arthur, > > I am setting up an automated system for: > > 1) Receive an email with an Excel attachment > 2) Strip the attachment, create a directory and place the attachment > into it. 3) Create a SQL Server database (temporary) 4) Import a list > of zips in each page of the spreadsheet into a matching table in the > database 5) Count the household / population in those zips 6) generate > an email back out with the counts in the body of the email. > > The objective is that the client sends an email that matches strict > criteria (Count name in the subject, files have count name pattern in > the file name etc) and have the system automatically pick up the email > (pull it into the server), get the attachment and process it. > > I went looking and all I could find for automating GMail was web > crapola, IOW if you wanted to do stuff with it on your web site. I > need it on my server. > > I am not using outlook per se, I am trying to get an object that is a > POP or CDO or whatever. Something that will pull data into a email > store local to my computer that I can manipulate. > > No one spoke up when I asked how to do this. Now everyone has an > opinion. OTOH I have actual running code that does this now, so > opinions at this point do me no good. I already paid to develop this. > > I have a business to run, you know? When I ask and get no response I > go figure it out myself. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 11:13 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > OK, regard this as a stupid question, but Why is anyone using > > Outlook? I just don't get it. There are so many superior > > alternatives, my current preference being gmail, but there are many > > others. > > > > Arthur > > > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM, > > jwcolbywrote: > > > >> We are using the free version of Redemption. > >> > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue May 31 16:39:27 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:39:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <> Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I understand your angst (though I do not participate in your angst). Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split the PK concept into: 1) Pointer 2) Unique index on a selected key. Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique index. Which of course is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) and the unique index can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK goes away. I embrace that with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both and cannot be split into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK is (at least when surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* more importantly, everybody that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception of you) uses word PK in the same manner as I do. Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor creating the unique index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as distinct from and not necessarily related to the pointer between records. >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We must select the pointer, and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were told by the world to call the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. What is Lead? 1) A metal 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. 3) The position out in front. We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. We are doing that here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the pointer and the selected key) the same name and you go ballistic. We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need to participate in the angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in your angst. Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Asgar, > > < hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the > *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> > > Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary > Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals > with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is > physically stored. > > That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one > states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in > database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly > design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table > represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then > all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the > "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a > physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. > > John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number "PK", > he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. > > < Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create a > unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a foreign > key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto > number key?>> > > Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a > unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It might > even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" even > though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking > the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. > > But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If > you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. > > < prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a > *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> > > In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in a > physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row > uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 17:13:00 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 18:13:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] redemption In-Reply-To: <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4DDFBB01.5060602@colbyconsulting.com>, , <4DE518FC.8020505@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE55E4A.7419.276B4BDD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4DE567EC.8070203@colbyconsulting.com> Sad really. I have an entire system in C# and I am not going to go learn Pegasus mail, Power Basic, SQL Tools and Blat to do one small part of my system. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 5:31 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I don't recall you asking how to do this. > > It would be about an hour to develop a system to do it using a combination of Pegasus Mail, > PowerBasic and SQLTools, and Blat. > > A few hours to do the whole thing as a single standalone application with PB/SQL Tools > coding simple POP3 and SMTP client modules in the application. Most of the code required > is already available either in the samples that come with the compiler on the forums at > wwww.powerbasic.com :-) > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 17:14:18 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 18:14:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> Message-ID: <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Just trying to get you to a shrink! We'd all be happier. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 5:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > < need to participate in the > angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in > your angst.>> > > Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions > > That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I > understand your angst > (though I do not participate in your angst). > > Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split > the PK concept into: > > 1) Pointer > 2) Unique index on a selected key. > > Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique > index. Which of course > is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or fields) > and the unique index > can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK > goes away. I embrace that > with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! > > We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is both > and cannot be split > into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the PK > is (at least when > surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* > more importantly, everybody > that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* exception > of you) uses word PK in > the same manner as I do. > > Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we do. > > Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, nor > creating the unique > index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as > distinct from and not > necessarily related to the pointer between records. > > >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and > it's the "PK". But > it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. > > Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We > must select the pointer, > and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were > told by the world to call > the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. > > What is Lead? > > 1) A metal > 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. > 3) The position out in front. > > We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same word. > We are doing that > here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the > pointer and the selected > key) the same name and you go ballistic. > > We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no need > to participate in the > angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in > your angst. > > Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Asgar, >> >> <> hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the >> *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> >> >> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary >> Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals >> with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is >> physically stored. >> >> That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one >> states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in >> database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly >> design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table >> represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But then >> all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's the >> "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a >> physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. >> >> John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number > "PK", >> he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. >> >> <> Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then create > a >> unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a > foreign >> key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the auto >> number key?>> >> >> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a >> unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It > might >> even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" > even >> though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking >> the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. >> >> But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. If >> you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. >> >> <> prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a >> *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> >> >> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in > a >> physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row >> uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. >> >> Jim. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue May 31 20:15:27 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:15:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Yes, it is convenient to use an AutoNumber (or in SQL parlance Identity, or in Oracle parlance Sequence) to uniquely identify rows within a relation. Of course it is, and that's why most of us use it, but is it correct? Actually, I think not, atlthough sometimes it shall suffice: given the case of thousands of eggs hatched by hundreds of chickens daily, it may not make sense to give them Intelligent Keys, but given another case such as serial-numbered automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. I am not on one side or the other of this discussion. Rather, I am on both sides, and can see the sense in both sides of this discussion. When we are discussing eggs, autonumber may seem correct; when discussing fuel injectors, then serial numbers and batch numbers are important, and hence PKs should identify these objects intelligently, not autonumerically. A. On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:14 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Just trying to get you to a shrink! We'd all be happier. > > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 5/31/2011 5:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > >> <> need to participate in the >> angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in >> your angst.>> >> >> Hum, well seems kind of funny that you always feel the need to respond. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 05:08 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] 2 quick questions >> >> That is the most lucid explanation you have ever attempted, and suddenly I >> understand your angst >> (though I do not participate in your angst). >> >> Unfortunately for you, pretty much nobody cares. I for one long ago split >> the PK concept into: >> >> 1) Pointer >> 2) Unique index on a selected key. >> >> Having done that the PK is the pointer and the unique index is... a unique >> index. Which of course >> is the beauty of doing this. The surrogate never changes (values or >> fields) >> and the unique index >> can change with the flick of a key. All the messiness of a real world PK >> goes away. I embrace that >> with all my heart. I love it. Semantics aside, it just works! >> >> We all understand perfectly well that in the relational model the PK is >> both >> and cannot be split >> into these two pieces but I am forced to work in the real world where the >> PK >> is (at least when >> surrogates are involved) *only* the pointer part of the equation. *And* >> more importantly, everybody >> that I am working with and discussing things with (with the *sole* >> exception >> of you) uses word PK in >> the same manner as I do. >> >> Thus we pretty much ignore your protestations and keep on doing what we >> do. >> >> Nobody is claiming that selecting a key to use for ensuring uniqueness, >> nor >> creating the unique >> index is not important, it is simply that I (we I dare say) view it as >> distinct from and not >> necessarily related to the pointer between records. >> >> >But then all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number >> and >> it's the "PK". But >> it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a physical one. >> >> Well, the physical world forces us to do so. Why is this a problem? We >> must select the pointer, >> and the logical PK usually sucks as the pointer so there you are. We were >> told by the world to call >> the pointer the PK and so we do. Only you have angst over it. >> >> What is Lead? >> >> 1) A metal >> 2) A piece of metal attached to an electronic component. >> 3) The position out in front. >> >> We often call distinct and not necessarily related things buy the same >> word. >> We are doing that >> here. Unfortunately (for you) in this case we are calling both parts (the >> pointer and the selected >> key) the same name and you go ballistic. >> >> We (or I) understand from whence your angst comes but we (or I) feel no >> need >> to participate in the >> angst. And no matter how you try, you will not force me to participate in >> your angst. >> >> Go see a shrink and see if you can get over it. ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 5/31/2011 4:39 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >>> Asgar, >>> >>> <>> hasten to specify that it is not so in the *logical design* - in the >>> *physical implementation* it certainly could (and IMO should) be.>> >>> >>> Yes but when modeling data relationally the meaning of what a "Primary >>> Key" is only occurs in the logical sense. Relational modeling only deals >>> with how data is associated logically and cares nothing about how it is >>> physically stored. >>> >>> That's why I typically say "Your mixing apples and oranges" when one >>> states that an auto number is a "PK", because it's labeled as such in >>> database products. To call it a "PK" is misleading; we all supposedly >>> design our databases using the relational model (logically); each table >>> represents one thing, we follow the rules of normalization, etc. But >>> then >>> all of a sudden, we come to the PK and slap in an auto number and it's >>> the >>> "PK". But it's not because you've shifted from a logical context to a >>> physical one. That's where the apples and oranges come in. >>> >>> John's problem is proof of that. Even though he has an auto number >>> >> "PK", >> >>> he's still trying to figure out how to prevent duplicates in his table. >>> >>> <>> Do you actually implement the natural key as a primary key and then >>> create >>> >> a >> >>> unique index on the auto number field? And also: when implementing a >>> >> foreign >> >>> key, do you make this key point to the natural key rather than to the >>> auto >>> number key?>> >>> >>> Typically you do the opposite; an auto number for the "PK", and then a >>> unique index based for the PK. Or you assign an ID as a surrogate. It >>> >> might >> >>> even be an "auto number", but to me, that's no longer an "auto number" >>> >> even >> >>> though the field type says it is. You might also go the route of checking >>> the PK in code by doing your duplicate check based on user input. >>> >>> But when all is said and done, in some way, you need to use the PK. >>> If >>> you don't, then you don't have a valid relational model for your data. >>> >>> <>> prefer: definition - neither of which are trivial! And distinguishing a >>> *logical PK* and a *physical PK* would clarify the discussion.>> >>> >>> In a large way it is, but again to me, there is no such thing a PK in >>> >> a >> >>> physical context. Being a PK is a lot more then simply labeling a row >>> uniquely physically and that always seems to be the bone of contention. >>> >>> Jim. >>> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 22:07:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:07:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2 quick questions In-Reply-To: References: <08FD918B-60D8-4C40-BD64-CCB5AE623B33@holly.arvixe.com> <283C9BA916B4427C83577BA9595D77B9@abpc> <359336EC1E374A0C951DC0157046AA33@XPS> <4DE558C4.5050402@colbyconsulting.com> <9037BC68B97240C984A518EA8920BFB7@XPS> <4DE5683A.50800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE5ACFF.3050906@colbyconsulting.com> > I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Hmm... I have to assume that there is some upper class / lower class thing going on here. You apparently count yourself in the upper class. >but given another case such as serial-numbered automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. LOL. No it doesn't. Reality still exists. Comparing a long integer PK to a long integer FK takes a single machine instruction. Comparing a 30 character serial number to another 30 character serial number takes eons (in computer time). Doing so a billion times requires some serious supercomputer power to solve a trivial problem that a surrogate never creates. Apparently some of us have never studied pattern matching algorithms and machine instructions... ;) Surrogates exist for many reasons. One of them is sheer speed. Why on God's green earth would I use a highly efficient surrogate in most cases and yet choose a grossly inefficient natural key just because it is "guaranteed to work and not cause problems" (in this one specific case). If a surrogate key doesn't work, then it should never be used. If it does work, then why would I not use it. Why would I be storing (and indexing) a 30 character string as my PK (and FK) instead of a long integer? Personally I think Codd would cringe at having his name used as a club to win such a silly argument. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 5/31/2011 9:15 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I refuse to participate in this conversation. Apparently, few if any of you > (I reserve one exception) have never read Codd or Date etc. Yes, it is > convenient to use an AutoNumber (or in SQL parlance Identity, or in Oracle > parlance Sequence) to uniquely identify rows within a relation. Of course it > is, and that's why most of us use it, but is it correct? Actually, I think > not, atlthough sometimes it shall suffice: given the case of thousands of > eggs hatched by hundreds of chickens daily, it may not make sense to give > them Intelligent Keys, but given another case such as serial-numbered > automobile parts, then non-autonumbered PKs make serious sense. > > I am not on one side or the other of this discussion. Rather, I am on both > sides, and can see the sense in both sides of this discussion. When we are > discussing eggs, autonumber may seem correct; when discussing fuel > injectors, then serial numbers and batch numbers are important, and hence > PKs should identify these objects intelligently, not autonumerically. > > A. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 31 22:37:58 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:37:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Cray Unleashes XK6 Supercomputer with AMD's Next-Generation Opteron "Interlagos" and Nvidia Tesla - X-bit labs Message-ID: <4DE5B416.7030903@colbyconsulting.com> Arthur, Thinking of you. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20110525224645_Cray_Unleashes_XK6_Supercomputer_with_Next_Generation_Opteron_Interlagos_and_Nvidia_Tesla.html The world needs more natural PKs. ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com